Here we are ladies and gentlemen, the new Scott Gambler. At least we think that it's going to be called the Gambler - Scott aren't giving much away about the bike at this stage. The team only got their hands on these frames last week to do some winter testing on the brutal San Romolo track in Northern Italy and then headed straight out to Pietermaritzburg for this weekend's World Cup event.
On first glance that linkage looks pretty wild, but look closer and you realize it's a single pivot with a linkage-driven shock, although we can't think of another company who currently use this kind of configuration. The word slack comes to mind. And yes, those are welds you can see, so it's made of aluminum.
A close-in on that linkage. It appears as if it works in a scissoring action to compress the Fox shock.
Another angle on the linkage (left), and Brendan Fairclough, itching to get it up the hill at the San Romolo test.
In case you were thinking that it all seemed a bit high, look how low that centre of gravity is when it's out on the trail. Also, look how low-slung it all is, yes it's under some compression here, but the clearance on that is massive.
There is a distinction between pivots that are used for shock actuation, and those pivots that are vital in keeping the rear wheel axle in place. With a single pivot design, as oppose to four bar, only two pivots are critical to the stability of the chassis. And those pivots can be made extra precise, and sturdy. Every bearing wear with time. And no one is going to change them after a few every rides. Bearing play will grow over time, and will stack up in four bar. Outside the showroom floor, a single pivot does have this advantage over the four bar.
Split pivot designs have been out in vogue. But the axle path behave just like single pivots. However, their shock actuation links are long. Sure there is the benefit of "brake jack" suppression, but there are other important factors as well to consider. Personally, outside of brake jack suppression, I don't see a lot of difference in benefits between the middle-high single pivot designs (with a progressive link), and the split-pivot designs for most downhill applications. I think both of these designs can be made competitive, depending on what type of riding that one does. In Scott's design, they placed the shock and links closer to center-of-mass, and the rolling axis. To me that is a positive thing. Also, they did not place rear shock impact loading directly on the downtube, or interrupt the downtube with a hole and welds. There are always going to be compromises, but IMHO, Scott did something positive and innovative.
Is that a 6 bar linkage system? Looks a set of bars pushes another set that pulls another set that finally compresses the shock. Yes... confusing. Wonder how it feels though.
looks like the proto fox droper post is getting some dh testing and as for the bike looks sweet single piviot normaly doesnt get thought of as a dh suspension glad to see some revamping
why is everyone so confused? its a single pivot with a rocker arm driving a shock linkage(evil revolt anyone?). Nothing new other than the shock is driven off the middle link like an mx bike.
Couldn't Scott just put CF covers around those linkages to protect the whole variety from mud and it would stop scarring children? I would call it... a LINKAGE-BOX!!! - doesn't that sound hype(r)cool? Screw the Gearbox, Linkagebox is the future!
are you ok for paying 5000€ for a bike that maybe only will last 2 years? warranty frame great... i have a friend of mine he had 4 brand new frames he was most of the time with the frame waiting for warranty... yeah thats great!!! 5000€ for a bike that you can barelly ride...
My old voltage fr 20 I ha since it came out in 2010, it's survived many dh races and a week at sgc in whistler, not one single frame related problem. Come to think of it the only problem I've had was casing a jump and the derailer bolt snapped, not the dropout. Only reason I sold it was to get a 2012 voltage fr 10
"A close-in on that linkage. It appears as if it works in a scissoring action to compress the Fox shock." all i could think of when i saw this was...scissor me timbers!
everyone going on about removing the shock... it actually looks really easy, and the adjustments are all easy to get at too. looks like a fantastic piece of engineering that doesn't put stress concentrations onto weak areas for a change!! to remove the shock.. unless i am mistaken, you undo the top bolt, let the back wheel drop as far as it can, then undo the bottom bolt and pull it out from the front as the linkage will have moved out of the way. Good on you Scott, some simple yet logical and functional engineering for a change!! If its as good as it looks, i'll be getting one of these as my next rig.
@apachemauro, DAMIAN24 has some pretty good photos, looks like he loves riding his bike. You on the other hand have photoshop'd photos of you doing skids with your shirt off. You riding with your shirt off does two things, it makes your helmet look massive and it makes you look like a massive helmet.
all this confusing nonsense. It is a single pivot with 4 linkages. If you think that is confusing, take a look at a lapierre. single pivot basically with 7 pivots. This is tame.
It confuses me how Scott, who really made some sweet bikes the last couple of seasons, could make such an ugly piece all of a sudden....The linkage is nothing special at all.
true dat. loooks pretty rad to me, perfect geo and a bit dark, moody, and slick looking and it doesn't look like a Trek :-) ......most of the waffling haters on here can't afford a bike like this anyway so they're not even "in market", as your salesman/marketing friend would tell you.
The linkage struck me as a little ugly at first, like it does to many others, but then it quickly grew on my and I really like the overall lines and simple straight tubing as well as the position of the shock. If you look at it from a performance basis this thing is going to perform amazingly. Incredible lateral stiffness I'm sure, thanks to the single pivot, placing of the single pivot (High) means it will soak up those square edge hits much better than Brendan's old demo. Super low stand over, long stroke shock means really precise tuning, and the weights nice and even with the shock being right by the seat post. Can't wait to see it perform!
from what i see, all the linkage points to a longer shock. makes sense really ... longer shock translates to more slow speed bump as well as, a smoother ramp to compression. also with the center linkage as high as it is the rearward travel could be totally negative. or not positive until the big hit.... * looks smart
im sorry to say to all those who said or thought "finally a new type of frame" its not. i came across this old pic: p1.pinkbike.com/photo/1053/pbpic1053996.jpg i have not looked into it but from looking at it it seems to be from around 2003-2004
so the earliest post in any forum i could find is from 2005, apart from that, the huge metal plate you see at the front is not part of the linkage but a pulley and path for the chain. apparently without it the chain growth would have been so high that the chain would rip, if thats the true reason i dont know.
Looks complicated cus we are looking at a picture. if we were seeing someone sit on it it wouldnt be so crazy.
Rear triangle moves up. so everything in front of pivot point on rear triangle moves down.
SOOO... the linkage from the front end of the rear triangle, that connects to the top of the shock, gets pulled down on.
in order for this motion not to pull the shock from a vertical to a horizontal position another linkage was added from the frame to the first linkage which stops the forward swing and in turn transmits all the motion towards compression rather then just changing the angle of the shock
Thanks for giving the blind people a heads up, but you missed one point if they can't see the picture they can't read the words, or do you think we're all thick as shit and only you can see how it works?
im guessing that comment was due to how i basically broke this suspension down for a child to understand but from reading all the comments about how peoples "brains hurt" while trying to understand the linkages i thought some people (obviously not people like you) might need a little umm... help
To everyone tripping over the linkage, its not that complex. It functions like one on a dirtbike with the shock actuated by the middle link. MX bikes have used this system for around 20 years now without any changes.
Looks like the majority of the links are in tension except between the free pivot and the top eye of the shock. This is pretty neat, having link working in tension opposed to compression allows to build them lighter. A member under tension don't need to be stiff lateraly because it doesn't have any risk of buckling like a link used in compression. Like others said, not complicated. but could have been simpler by using a pull-shock...
it reminds me a bit of the linkage that blkmrkt uses on the killswitch. but one thing that really bugs me is the access to the shock- theres no way you would be able to adjust anything without taking the shock out of the frame. also i spy new saint brakes and derailleur.
Not able to adjust anything without taking the shock out? Looks like an RC4, H and L comp look very easy to access to me.. especially from that last pic, plus I have seen a lot worse...
So its 5% frame 95% linkage.. I think it looks a lot better with a bit of sag, i like the sound of the compression coming from the top and the bottom of the shock, im surprised no one has thought of that before. It looks okay but then again if its a top end downhill bike the function of it is more important and it looks like it performs well!
just think of it as a VPP/parallel-link (think Canfield Jedi F1) suspension, turned around backwards. what would have been the "rear triangle" on the VPP just actuates the shock on this, and what would have been the lower link actuating the shock has turned into the swingarm. I admit, I stared at it for a few minutes trying to figure out WTF was going on, but once I looked at it like a backwards VPP/parallel-link suspension, it made perfect sense
I like the looks, generally a nice rig, nice finishing kit. But I think the head tube is just a bit too slack, I may be wrong cus' I don't know the actual angle but if it is as slack as it looks I'm thinking the handling would be a bit sloppy. Just my opinion though, I like my angles quite tight to give my rig a sharper feel, helps when snapping it around between trees on tighter tracks. Its just a balance I guess, you need a certain degree(pardon the pun)of slackness and bike length, especially for steep tracks.
Finally a Scott that doesn't look like the designers has been on acid while making it, but actually looks good. Hope they don't clutter and spoil the production version with a lot of ugly graphics as they usually do. K.I.S.S.
It prefere the old one, I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. This one seems strange and complicated, bit ugly too. The linkage might work very well though on the otherhand.
It's a beautiful looking frame but just is a glorified single pivot, wich the only people who seem to do single pivot well nowa days is orange because they don't over complicate things.
personally i do like the look of the frame but that sort of single pivot is going back to square one many better suspension designs availible nowmuch rather ride my aluminum foes or a turner way better linkage
no good for rock ride,n then bb very low i know steps i,d catch the bash guard on i have the old gambler and thats low, but this is silly may aswell have a tomahawke haha , wish i,d kept my demo 9
i like scott but i get the feeling they like making their bikes complex... idk but i kinda like simpler, cleaner frames. this ones sick but it just has a little too much going on
I agree with levy here... at first I was a bit caught off guard with the setup, but after taking a sec to put it all togther the bike looks super sick. I deff wouldnt call it complex, it's simplistic and sensible really.
you're right its definitely much simpler that it looks. i think id kinda like to see how it compares to some more standard suspension setups just to see if it may or may not have any advantages. to me although it is pretty simple it looks a bit like going in a circle to get the same place in a strait line if that makes any sense.
It looks so sick but it seems sort of deliberately rediculous. I guess I cant say because I've never ridden (and will likely never ride) one, but really, how complicated does it have to be?
definatley one of the more uglier bikes i've seen. it's way too complicated. it needs to be simple and clean. not hey lets see how many pivots point we can throw in there just for fun. idk...
I just spent like 5 minutes figuring out how that system works + not very practical for tha average rider how the hel are you supposed to clean that thing?!
DT swiss fx 1950 tricons, and unless your minted i wouldnt bother, worked out about ÂŁ1200 for the wheelset when i went to get my izimu built up, needless to say i went with a set of hope hoops instead. do look mega bling tho.
voltage DH is a voltage, difference is 20mm on the back wheel, an adjustable headset and/or some offset shock bushes. scott could never justify that as their top bike. Manufacturers need to charge top dollar for the DH bikes, the top of the line. Your product range wont work if the top of the line is cheaper than your AM bike.
Front triangle is very similar to a Voltage front triangle with a bracket welded on to the seat tube to suit the new shock position. The down tube location has been brought further out and curved to accept the length of a 9.5 shock. Something a voltage front triangle could not do in this position. Going by the weld seams on the rear triangle It looks like this is also aluminum. I think its a nice bike but the front and rear parts of the frame don't go, two different styles since the tubes have been borrowed from a voltage (same hydro forming shape). I´d also fit a Ball guard to that linkage setup, squinty landing after a big drop, neutered.
Jokes/Cosmetics aside this bike will be very fast and looks like it should be very stable. Being all aluminum it shouldnt be mental money either.
If done right, I think it could work. And the cover can keep the shock, and bearings stay cleaner longer. Having said that, you'll be surprised how many things would look bland without a creative graphics design. Actually, this Scott model has a unique configuration of links. I wonder if some graphics artist can come up with a paint scheme to enhance this feature. ie. perhaps accentuating the scissor-like silhouette.
@techyiam - I couldn't prop you more! Read both your comments on this post and they are bang on! I've done a bit of bike design and I totally agree with what you're saying.
I first thought they went through that whole hassle just to fit a bigger shock, but it seems to be standard 241. Confusing. Why did they mess this up so badly?
very sick! the rear linkage is sick too, not ugly, it is good and interesting, beautiful bike, super low/slack/long on of my favourites from the WC bikes already
See this is the kind of statement i just dont understand.... how would it work without its "STUPID" linkage. it looks very complicated i agree but once you imagine it moving its not that complicated.
Rear triangle moves up. so everything in front of pivot point on rear triangle moves down. SOOO... the linkage from the front end of the rear triangle, that connects to the top of the shock, gets pulled down on. in order for this motion not to pull the shock from a vertical to a horizontal position another linkage was added from the frame to the first linkage which stops the forward swing and in turn transmits all the motion towards compression rather then just changing the angle of the shock
2 things: first-why is there a hydrolic seat post on a dh bike? secondly-how the hell do u get the shock out of the frame...looks hard? anyway other then that looks interesting and pretty cool
"It (the course) had a headwind on it this past weekend, and without a dropper post, you're easily losing 8-10 seconds..." - Mick Hannah, in reference to the Pietermaritzburg track
Why has my comment been deleted???, i still agree with what i said before. Got to be one of the UGLIEST bikes i have ever clapped my eyes on. Go ahead delete my comment again...
haters hates because they will never be able to buy one of this rigs, and if they do it, they are not capable to ride this machine. cleaning?? for god sake, just get the hose an soap and will be sparkling, to takea out the shock, excuse me, did you take out the shock daily?? stupid haters. thisbike is for serious riders, it doesnt matter how complicated looksthe linkage, its looks complicated for people who do not have an idea about linkages, is actually very simple.
Who's the hater here, dude? Chill out! Haters hate not only because they can't afford this. Also, what's your point about someone not being able to ride to the limits of the frame? You gotta be one hell of a rider to reach the limits. And this is pointless. If i earn enough money and spend it on the frame, i wouldn't give a freakin shit about your opinion or someone else's opinion that i'm not able to geach the limit. As for the shock - it does look confusing. And you do not get the shock out daily, but it's kinda shitty if it's hard to get it out even if it's once a year!
:o
Split pivot designs have been out in vogue. But the axle path behave just like single pivots. However, their shock actuation links are long. Sure there is the benefit of "brake jack" suppression, but there are other important factors as well to consider. Personally, outside of brake jack suppression, I don't see a lot of difference in benefits between the middle-high single pivot designs (with a progressive link), and the split-pivot designs for most downhill applications. I think both of these designs can be made competitive, depending on what type of riding that one does. In Scott's design, they placed the shock and links closer to center-of-mass, and the rolling axis. To me that is a positive thing. Also, they did not place rear shock impact loading directly on the downtube, or interrupt the downtube with a hole and welds. There are always going to be compromises, but IMHO, Scott did something positive and innovative.
warranty frame great... i have a friend of mine he had 4 brand new frames he was most of the time with the frame waiting for warranty...
yeah thats great!!! 5000€ for a bike that you can barelly ride...
Too far?
i came across this old pic:
p1.pinkbike.com/photo/1053/pbpic1053996.jpg
i have not looked into it but from looking at it it seems to be from around 2003-2004
(My initial question though: If I put an orange in the right place, will it make me some nice juice? I need that out of a bike these days.)
What are those bars, 2mm rise?
Good work Brendog, what's next? You'll say riser bars are for hipsters?
the spring is 400x3,50 so yes it has to be 267
Front triangle is very similar to a Voltage front triangle with a bracket welded on to the seat tube to suit the new shock position. The down tube location has been brought further out and curved to accept the length of a 9.5 shock. Something a voltage front triangle could not do in this position. Going by the weld seams on the rear triangle It looks like this is also aluminum. I think its a nice bike but the front and rear parts of the frame don't go, two different styles since the tubes have been borrowed from a voltage (same hydro forming shape). I´d also fit a Ball guard to that linkage setup, squinty landing after a big drop, neutered.
Jokes/Cosmetics aside this bike will be very fast and looks like it should be very stable. Being all aluminum it shouldnt be mental money either.
Rear triangle moves up. so everything in front of pivot point on rear triangle moves down.
SOOO... the linkage from the front end of the rear triangle, that connects to the top of the shock, gets pulled down on.
in order for this motion not to pull the shock from a vertical to a horizontal position another linkage was added from the frame to the first linkage which stops the forward swing and in turn transmits all the motion towards compression rather then just changing the angle of the shock
Love it..
first-why is there a hydrolic seat post on a dh bike?
secondly-how the hell do u get the shock out of the frame...looks hard?
anyway other then that looks interesting and pretty cool
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7376573