Yes, the Antidote Lifeline DH has chain guide tabs. No, I didn't mount a guide. I didn't drop a chain once, but you should still run a guide.
I know what you're thinking: why the hell do you need a downhill-specific drivetrain when the one you have works just fine? The answer is that you probably don't need it if you're recreational descender, and you most likely won't be thinking that the X01 DH is the drivetrain equivalent of the second coming of Christ if you don't go up against the clock at a relatively high level of competition. But, as with anything that's built with a very specific purpose in mind instead of a bunch of different uses, X01 DH most certainly does perform better on a downhill bike than the current norm of combining a bunch of drivetrain bits from different groups. The two most obvious benefits include its ability to remain ridiculously quiet when you're smashing your way over rough ground, even without a chain guide fitted (more on that below, so don't get upset with me yet), and bang-bang-bang snappy shifting that has more traditional setups feeling a bit wishy washy. I remember having to add foam or rubber protection all over frames in order to keep chain slap noise down, but I spent exactly zero minutes doing that on our Antidote Lifeline DH test bike that I bolted the X01 DH group to, and it was likely the quietest setup that I've ever ridden. Don't they say that a quiet bike is a fast bike? Shifting across the cassette feels extremely positive, even compared to SRAM's other single-ring groups, and the 10 - 24 spread felt spot on for use on a downhill bike. I'd argue that going from ten or eleven cogs to seven, and thereby getting a more focused gear range and having to shift less, is likely small beans to a casual downhiller who doesn't race on a regular basis, but it was pretty obvious to me that I was shifting less than I would be if I had another three or four cogs, and when it comes to a downhill bike the less shifting the better. The photo above shows the X01 DH group without a chain guide, which is clearly going to stir the pot, but it's also how I ran the drivetrain for the entire time I had it. Yes, the Antidote Lifeline DH frame does have tabs for a chain guide, and yes, you'd be an idiot to not run some type of chain guide on your downhill bike, especially if you're spending money to be in the bike park or race on a regular basis. That said, I wanted to be a bit of an idiot when testing the X01 DH group, if only to see how long I'd go before dropping a chain... and I'm still waiting for it to fall off. Plenty of days in the bike park and shuttles on my local mountains have not seen the chain bounce off, but that doesn't mean I'd recommend doing the same to anyone else. In fact, don't do the same. Use a guide so that you can't blame me if your chain does fall off, especially considering that some bikes and some riders are going to be more prone to causing trouble. I can't really grumble when it comes to anything about X01 DH's performance, which is exactly how it should be given the group's singleminded focus. The one caveat here is that this is an expensive drivetrain that, for the most part, needs to be used together as a whole, at least when it comes to the driver, cassette, shifter, and derailleur. However, I do question if the average downhiller who does some shuttles on the weekend would be spending their money in the right place by picking up an entire X01 DH group to replace their standard nine or ten-speed setup. A competitive downhiller, on the other hand, will benefit from the system's relative low weight, quiet action and, most importantly, the on-point gearing range that won't see you double or even triple-shifting at times. - Mike Levy |
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DT Swiss did do it the right way though, but it was on a 135mm hub and not the usual 150mm ones used in DH bikes. But even with a narrower hub, it still had a wider flange spacing than most 150mm DH hubs.
www.pinkbike.com/news/DT-Swiss-7-Speed-Downhill-Hub-First-Look-sea-otter-2011.html
I would guess they didn't want to invent ANOTHER new freehub body so were stuck with the existing XD standard. Understandable. I can imagine the outrage if they tried to release an "XD mini" standard.
From an engineering standpoint you're right, there is some benefit to be had here from a new hub design. Current singlespeed hubs do something similiar (www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/240s-6) albeit with the normal splined cassette interface. As far as I can tell there is nothing to stop somebody from making a 12x150mm (or whatever spacing you want) hub that fits the bottom 7 cogs off a normal cassette. This should really be pretty trivial for a major hub manufacturer, its only a matter of adjusting the spacing.
Anybody want to start a business?
Even though it serves a purpose and makes a lot of sense, we'd all be the first to have a whinge at a new Sram specific rear hub.
Edit: just noticed that there should be an XD driver. Validity of my argument starts lowering =\
Simply, adjust the reach of the rear mech by pulling/Adjusting the gear cable length to that of the mech on the new first gear and tune in. Worked perfectly fine on both the X0 and ZEE set up I had on the old bike.
Now though, I have sold the old race bike and I currently have the new demo on order (landing in the UK mid February) and i'll be loaded with this group set. I totally see the benefits of this system and to be honest, I also see the argument that this won't be bought or used by your average rider/racer. If its too pricey for people, thats ok, stick to what you can afford replace as and when.
Spacing/sizing of the rear hubs???? Specialized have again, returned there S-works frame to a 135mm rear spacing for a third year. Why invent a new industry standard when you have sizes that already work on the market. Granted, you may find some teams that are sponsored by hub/wheel companies will maybe trial/test new ideas but I really doubt they'd introduce yet another standard to the cheese board.
I think not!
also, good debate going on here guys!!!!! not had an open ended discussion on PB like this in ages. hahaha
Though if there's not a significant weight penalty, always go for the tallest flanges & tallest rim you can, as you get a stronger wheel. Physics!
So we kept the same hub OLD for 9/10/11 speed as 8 speed, but even worse, we started needing these disc brake mounts, which eats up another ~30mm. so the distance between hub flanges have been smaller than is optimal for while now(most hubs have far taller flanges now to compensate: go look at the height of a hub flange on a old 7 speed hub, they're miniscule!)
Then we started putting bigger rims on (29) making the legs of the triangle even longer! something had to give. now that we have single & double rings commonly up front, we don't need to accommodate for the 3 different chainlines, & can make hubs wider without as much affect to q factor.
oh and yes, I was aware of the old 5, 6, 7 speed systems as I rode on them as they hit the peak of their lifespan before being superseded by the next biggest gear range. hahaha. I was mainly talking about the manufacturing point that all the tooling for these would be nowhere to be seen in a production line again and they'd then be reinvesting in everything once again, just for one disclpine.
To put in more succinctly: you HAVE to design a new hub shell for 148. But you can do it a lazy way, or a right way. In the past, some people chose the lazy way.
Some of them charged less. this is actually good, as it gives people a cheaper option to get into the new standard. Some of them charged just as much as correctly built hubs, & relied on people not knowing the difference. That is not good.
Hub width choice is more a matter of optimization of many factors. But "optimum" means different things depending on what is important to the one doing the optimizing. For a rider/bike owner: strength, stiffness, affordable, "How do I get the best ride for my money?" For a manufacturer, especially a bike company: profit, "How can we make a bike that will collectively make the most profit?"
277$ is 228 euros
You'll have 6 or 7 gears with wider gear spacing than a road cassette, wider spaced flanges than a normal hub (due to the shortened freehub body of Hope's trials hub) to give you a stiffer wheel, 80 point engagement, f@ckin loud hub and a kick ass dh worthy groupset for about 1 squillion'th the price of any SRAM X1 groupset.... UK riders have been doing this for years!
(I guess it just doesn't work if you have 150mm spacing but Hope offer 135x12mm axles for the hub)
it states 6 sp so its something to look at. all depends on what 6sp system that is (tsp, 10sp or 11sp cassettes)????
Well worth a look though.
I suppose you could use generic cogs with custom spacers, but this all seems pointless when you can still get 10sp Saint, Zee, or even short cage SRAM stuff. You're looking at going to a 11 - 26 (If you're trying to get the same spread as X01 DH) which would be easily doable with 6 cogs: 11 - 14 - 16 - 18 - 22 - 26.
The biggest limiter with that hub is really that it only comes in 135mm.
You'll find that a large number of DH frames are now starting to step down from 150mm to 142mm or even 135mm again. Strength and rigidity are vastly improved over what was on the market 5 years ago with regards to materials and rear ends on bikes so, narrower widths aren't as bad as they used to be.
I agree that It's crap for people that won't be buying new bikes but then again, if they're not buying a new bike why would they be changing/Vastly upgrading the drive chain from something thats working on the bike they've currently got if a specific hub standard is the thing they are chasing like the SS/Trial hope Tech hub????
As stated though, this hub option is for 135mm frames that are already on the market/owned by individuals that want to do this.
your point about the generic stuff is exactly my point as well. I've been doing this for the last two years without any issues. i've had road cassettes on the bike (11-23) and took off the largest 3 gears. Think it went 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19. this worked really well in my opinion with a 32T or 34T chainring on the front. Snappy on the start but not so that you spun out and required to change quickly. You didn't require much gear changing on a DH run as you were sat in the optimum range straight off the gate.
He had a singlespeed cassette wheelset, no shifter or derailleur. Wanted some gears.
SLX shifter, Zee Derailleur, Chain and a 10sp cassette cut down to 7speeds.
Bout $300 with labor. Super tough "singlespeed hub" bracing angle. Has to deal with a few ghost clicks. Works like a charm.
Working man's X01DH.
question tho, arent some of the sram cranks have spiderless designs in them? I think it was called x sync where the chainrings bolt in unto the crank like their cassettes. why not the cranks using them?
How much weight savings compared to XTR with a single ring and an 11/24 rear cassette?
Some of the articles when X01 DH came out claimed that SRAM's solution for a more freeride-esque bike is to use the longer X01 DH derailleur, a X0 shifter & a 11-36 to create a 10sp drivetrain with an straight-parallelogram derailleur, but I haven't heard anything since.
That, or swap a 10 sp shifter on there & put a climbing (11-27) road cassette on.
but, i run a shimano zee rear derailleur with 7 speeds, so why spend all this money? just put the gears you want limit your derailleur and put spacers on the end
Only with SRAM do you have to ease off power when upshifting. I'm a high power clydesdale and I never let off the power when upshifting any of my Shimano groups. Hell, even downshifting you don't have to ease off the power.
m.memegen.com/ml2mbt.jpg