This morning saw SRAM issue a short press release alluding to a new group titled XX1, a name signifying that it will sit atop their component range alongside the current XX group. While very little information was actually divulged, they do make it clear that it is an entire group based around a single-ring setup (hence the ''1'' designation) that has been engineered for enduro and all-mountain use, as well as being compatible with both Grip Shift and their trigger shifters. The words from SRAM are rather brief, but there are a few points that piqued our interest, notably the mention of an extremely wide range cassette and their use of ''Innovative chain management technology...'' that works with the recently released Type 2 rear derailleurs.
Why A Single Ring? A single chain ring setup is often the ticket for fit riders who can push the taller easy gear up their local climbs, or for those who spend time on flatter terrain, but making the switch to one chain ring can be an intimidating change for mountain bikers who don't feel they are in good enough shape to get by without a bailout gear. That may change in the near future with SRAM's announcement of its wide-range, single-ring drivetrain that could have more riders considering going the single ring route. Why would a single ring make sense if it offers a more limited gearing range compared to a two-chain ring system? Given the narrow ranges that present one-by drivetrains offer, there are riders who need more gears, and terrain where a single ring is never going to be ideal, but the system's simplicity, often lighter overall weight, and the very fact that there isn't a bailout gear are the selling features for riders who are willing to push themselves.
Devinci's Gabe Fox agrees, telling Pinkbike ''
I think the new XX1 address all of the needs of the Enduro rider, it takes some modifications which the top riders have been doing for years and expands on them, creating a well-thought-out, discipline-specific setup. XX1 will really benefit this category." Fox hits the nail on the head, noting that XX1 is likely going to be a tool for a very distinct type of rider who can get the most from the setup.
Since the introduction of 2 x 10 we've always offered choices, that's been clear from our gearing options. We're not here to change standards, we're here to innovate. Innovation comes from within SRAM and our global athletes, something that has been made apparent as we continue to sweep the podium at World Cup cross-country events and in the enduro scene. But by no means is this a replacement for 2 x 10, a system that makes the most sense for the majority of people.
- Tyler Morland, MTB PR Manager
That said, there are compelling reasons for a one-by drivetrain in the rapidly-expanding 29er marketplace as well. With the tire and front derailleur competing for the same space in the rear of the frame, bike designers would love to eliminate it entirely. A single-ring drivetrain would allow for shorter chainstays and wider tires without compromising mud clearance or the chainline. But the single-chain ring drivetrain will not gain traction in the wider market unless it can offer a gearing spread that is at least comparable to existing two-by-ten drivetrains like SRAM's XX.
11 Speed CassetteSRAM's boasting of their XX1 group having the widest gearing range available has us believing that the new group will utilize an 11 speed cassette - a fact that is backed up in the photos shown here - confirming rumors that have been circulating within the industry for months. The reasoning behind this is that the gear ratio jumps from cog to cog are close to ideal on the current two-by drivetrains using 11-36, ten-speed cassettes. To match that spread with a single chain ring, SRAM's drivetrain engineers would need to increase the number of teeth on the largest cassette cog and also reduce the number of teeth on the smallest cog. To do so and remain within the confines of a ten-cog cassette, however, would create larger jumps between gears. Presently, the ideal jump from cog to cog has been established at 13 percent - which has been proven successfully in competition and the trail. This knowledge explains why SRAM added an eleventh cog to the cassette - a production first in the mountain bike world. (Although 11-speed has been available on the road for a while now.)
So, what sort of cassette gearing would be required of an 11-speed cassette to create a range that approaches that of their current 2 x 10 setup? Two important facts have to be kept in mind when predicting what the range will be: first, the XX moniker designates the group's race ready intentions, meaning that it likely won't be geared for casual riders who don't get out often. While XX components are certainly used on bikes that never see a race course, they are intended for fit riders who push themselves. It is for this reason that we don't expect XX1 to offer anything close to granny gear type numbers. Second, many full suspension bikes are designed so that their suspension functions best when their chain is close to where it would be when on a middle chain ring sized ring. With that in mind we expect it to use a ring that is at least as close in size to a standard 32-tooth ring, meaning that the XX1 cassette will likely feature a much larger spread than anything we might anticipate at first in order to compensate.
SRAM would not tell us exactly what the gearing options will be for XX1, but with a little sleuthing and a calculator, we can say with a level of certainty that the small cassette cog will be a 10-tooth (
or even smaller), while the larger one will be either a 41 or 42-tooth sprocket. Why? If SRAM's claim that X1 has the widest gearing range available holds true, then the absolute minimum spread between the large and small cassette cogs would have to be 10 by 41 teeth. We counted the chain ring teeth on Jerome Clementz's Cannondale Jekyll shown above and guessed it could be a 32 (
a figure that matches the smallest big-ring available for its X0 crankset). If one compares the gearing spread of a 39 by 26 two-ring crankset using an 11 by 36 cassette, we arrive at a 3.54:1 high gear and a 0.72:1 low gear. Our theoretical SRAM XX1 32-tooth single-ring crankset driving a 10 by 42 cassette gives a similar spread, with a slightly lower, 3.2:1 high gear and a slightly taller, 0.76:1 low gear. The cassette in the pictures leads us to believe that SRAM chose a 42 tooth large cog, because a 13% jump from the existing 36-tooth cog would be 41.5, thus a 42-tooth cog would make more sense. The smallest cog in the cassette depicted appears larger than the nine-tooth sprockets we have seen on Hope and Shimano-hybrid cassettes, so our bet is ten teeth there.
Technically, there is room to add an eleventh cog on the large end of the existing SRAM cassette without requiring a special freehub body because the angle of the drive-side spokes makes room for it there. A close look at the rear-view of the cassette seems to reveal the lack of an external lock ring – a necessity which could allow the cassette to be shifted a few millimeters to the right without causing clearance issues with the frame. The design of the cassette suggests that the 42-tooth sprocket is pinned to the adjoining cog. We are curious to see if SRAM will introduce a narrower 11-speed chain, although it is doubtful as the prototype XX1 system has been in use for some time and developing a new chain would require a huge commitment. Hopefully, their existing ten-speed chain will be compatible.
It's great to see advancements in the sport of cycling, especially the ones that make the ride more enjoyable. A single ring setup may start out a little daunting, but for the right experience and done properly, it's the ticket! In the case of enduro riding, the terrain and speeds can get pretty insane and the less I have to worry about my bike and my equipment the better. The two scenarios that really pop out at me are smashing over things like rocks and logs, my buddy that crashed right in front of me, and getting on the gas out of corners. For those two, the extra clearance of a single ring and the fact, that chain retention is far improved, means I can get over more obstacles without hitting it (good news), and I don't worry about throwing in some hard pedal strokes when the chain is not on (if you have plowed your own top tube, you know what I am talking about). Not to mention that it's lighter and the handlebar cockpit is cleaned up.
- Sam Benedict, Specialized MTB Product Marketing
One Chain Ring, But A Wider Gearing RangeAgain, it is important to keep in mind that XX1 is clearly going to be aimed at riders who are fit enough that they may be already considering going to a single ring setup. If XX1 does combine a 32-tooth ring with a 10 - 42 tooth cassette, it will actually include a lower low gear and a higher high gear than any current single-ring setup: a 32-tooth ring and 36-tooth cog gives a gear development of 74.6'', while a 32/42 combo offers a lower 62.4'' development. At the other end of the spectrum you'll find that a standard 32/11 allows for a 244.3'' development, compared to a 268.7'' development from a 32/10 high gear (
note the graphic above). If you fell asleep reading all those numbers, then all you need to remember is that a single-chainring crank driving an 11-speed cassette with a 10 by 42 tooth range has a similar gear selection than present 2 by 10 drivetrains. That is certainly a wide enough range for a fit rider to make do with.
New Rear Derailleur
A new 11 speed cassette will also require an entirely new rear derailleur design, one that employs different geometry from what is currently used. A prototype version of the derailleur can be seen at right, and it's clear that it is quite different from the 10 speed derailleurs available now. The most obvious difference is the pully wheel that the shift cable rides on before being clamped in place on the actuation arm. The cable clamp point is also now under the front side of the parallelogram, as opposed to tucked behind as found on the current design. You can also make out the Cage Lock button just below the derailleur's knuckle, signifying that the prototype also uses SRAM's one-way roller clutch system that applies friction in the forward swinging motion of the derailleur's cage while letting it pivot backwards easily. This adds tension to the chain to keep excess slap to a minimum in order to improve shift consistency, lessen the chance of dropping a chain, and greatly quiet noise from chain slap.
Don't expect the current 10 speed shifters or derailleurs to be compatible with any of the new 11 speed components, although SRAM has stated that the new and yet to be named derailleur can be controlled with either Grip Shift and trigger shifters, meaning that we can expect to see 11 speed versions of both in the future.
Modified Chain Ring Teeth
When you think about a single chain ring setup you surely also picture a chain guide in the picture, be it either a lightweight or full-on guide, to help keep the chain in place. But what if a layout could be used that managed to keep the chain on the ring without requiring a guide? Not using a guide would eliminate chain rub and complication from the equation, not to mention the added weight the comes along with bolting a chain guide to the bike. SRAM's new Type 2 rear derailleur increases chain tension, a step that goes a long way to keeping the chain on over rough terrain, but we believe that XX1 goes a step further than that.
The photo to the right shows a prototype XX1 chain ring that, if you look closely, sports some very different looking teeth. This, we believe, is what SRAM is referring to when they mention ''Innovative chain management technology...''. It looks as if SRAM has approached the challenge of chain retention right at the heart of the matter, by designing chain ring teeth that help to hold the chain in place. Shaping the chain ring teeth is nothing new - inspect the rings on a two or three chain ring crankset and you'll notice how some of the teeth are actually shorter than others, as well as pins and shaping just below the teeth, details that are all there to encourage the chain to move from one ring to the next as fast as possible. SRAM has likely done just the opposite with the XX1 chain ring, although it remains to be seen if the design can be as effective as a lightweight upper slider-only type guide. We still expect to see a lightweight guide intended to work with the new XX1 group, though, regardless of the clever tooth shaping.
Pinkbike's take: | We are big believers in single chain ring setups, with many of our personal bikes sporting 10 speed cassettes combined with a single 32 tooth ring. We've found that this setup works quite well, despite our rather steep and hilly local terrain, but we do admit that there are situations where it is far from ideal. The issue boils down to gearing range, or rather the lack of it, during those early season rides when we're far from being fit. It isn't just the lack of low range, though, but also those times when we find ourselves wishing for a bigger gear. And that's what has us so excited about XX1, with its wider gearing range that will allow more riders to take advantage off running a single chain ring setup. Having said that, we're sure that SRAM is fully aware that there will be resistance to a new 11 speed component group, even if it might make sense from a performance point of view. The current 10 speed systems are not going to disappear anytime soon - 2 x 10 makes more sense for many riders - but think of XX1 as an option that could suit certain riders and conditions. The bottom line is that 10 speed isn't going anywhere anytime soon. XX1 will be an option that will work for some riders in some places. The math proves that it can be used to create a simpler drivetrain that actually has a wider gear spread than some double ring combos. Now we just need to ride it. - Mike levy |
www.sram.com
The bigger ratio is great, although I am not sure on the 11 speed thing.
At the moment it would require an all new setup, new chainrings, chain, derailleur etc.
Its logical that Sram aims for this right now, after all for high end you need to be exclusive and in the future will offer the bigger ratio cogs for 10 speed too...
I'm riding the Kona Honzo 1*9 29'' bike with crazy short chainstays, and it really makes sense to ditch the FD, especially on 29^-ers
The Jekyll comes with SRAM 3x10 which is an INSANE number of gears. For a bike such as the Jekyll I do not understand why they didn't just bin the biggest ring and perhaps put a bashguard on it. There'd be very little if any extra cost and it actually makes sense.
3x10 cranksets are excessive! If you think 2x9/10 isn't enough get a smaller granny ring and/or a bigger 'middle' ring. OR MTFU and go 1x10
1.James Wilsons training program (10mb),
2.kettlebells 12 and 16kg ,
3.50kg of wieghts for two dumbbells, (might need 30 more for deadlifts) so a bar could come handy.
4.A jumping rope (120g)
5.Yoga matt 80x200cm (800g)
6.Chin up bar (1,5kg)
Works awesome!
Are you "haters" just reasoning yourself to prevent the poser in you from wanting to spend money, so you can be like the guys you look up to in the PODs and VODs? They're only offering a new option with some innovation and I see nothing wrong with that. I'm not buying it, since I'm not an Enduro racer and know of many better ways to use my money.
The Pinkbike community seems to be...
How many guys do you know that actually race enduro? does Ross Schnell or Rene Wildhaber continually complain 'oh i wish i had one more even easier gear to make my enduro DH life easier, wah wah wahh!!' I doubt it... because like Waki said. just go the the gym. haha
Offering critical analysis of something isn't "hating." I suggest you go get a dictionary and look up "hate." No, not the Urban Dictionary.
How about I become a hater to understand them better... what good would it do me to know about Ross Schnell, Rene Wildhaber, or other Enduro racers, and if I weren't a manufacturer who sponsored them, or made parts that they may or may not be using, and asked for feedback on what I could do to improve drivetrains to help them win, how would I know if they aren't asking for easier "enduro DH life"?
If I listened to the whining of the haters on Pinkbike, I might be led to think that SRAM isn't going to make any money off of this. Back to hater mode, I may wonder how that affects me. Hmm, they're not making the DH stuff any "better" and I'm feeling neglected? I have to waste time sitting on pinkbike filtering through more of their "marketing" rather than getting to the rad stuff that makes me feel better for not being outside riding?
But seriously if you don't like it don't buy it. Hopefully when they sell zero units sram + shimano might drop the idea of "more is better" and give us something we actually want.
Or maybe some other company should step in? give sram and shimano the finger by developing something useful and not based on hype. It seems the market is ready for it?
PS. 1x9 rider
I was getting by ok with a 1x9 (32T + 11-34) at home but I had no top end at all which was annoying, so I welcomed the extra range of a 1x10 (33T + 11x36) but it's still not quite satisfactory. I need more at both ends, as the climbing is tough on long rides when I get tired, and I still spin out too easily. It's very close but not quite there, so I can't see needing a 10-42. I'd be quite happy to run my 33T ring with a 10T cog for top end, and would probably be happy with a 38T big cog.
Everyone is on about wanting to see the death of the rear derailluer. I think the front is a much weaker link in the smooth running and simplicity of a drivetrain (not from a 'safe from harm' perspective). I hate dealing with the POS front mech on my wife's bike that she constantly complains about with noise, mis-shifts and dropped chains, not to mention that VPP feels like crap in a granny gear. I know what you're thinking... I can't setup a front mech properly. Well I used to be a bike mechanic and they have always sucked. Maybe they are better now than the 5 year old stuff on my wife's bike but the last thing I feel like doing when I go over her bike is messing with the front mech and then going and testing the thing to see if it works without rubbing under load. Pile of shit. I can't ditch it on hers like I have done because she needs the gears. Chances are she will get new kit before I do, just so I can stop dealing with the crap she has now.
To be honest, I would gladly adopt the single, non chainguide specific chaingring. Although, would the 11spd chain ring be compatible with 9 and 10 as well? if so, you may have a winner.
I can't see how many people are managing with 1x9 unless they live in places with no big climbs and/or slow descents. If you are running a 34T, you have a bare minimum of DH gears and your climbing gear sucks ass if you live in the mountains. And if you are running a 32T, your climbing gear is still quite tough and you spin out at 25km/h. How is this "all you need". Sure, maybe it's "kinda ok and better than a POS front mech", but surely there's room for improvement? If you don't think so and your terrain or monster sized quads allow for pushing a 34x34, maybe stand aside for a second and imagine that some people need to climb big mountains with mortal legs and descend at high speed on the other side and they want this to happen with one shifter, not two.
I remember very clearly when 8 speed came out and the resistance was similar. All the naysayers can have their 13-28 7 speed cassettes. Try that shit on a 1x7 and tell me if you want progress or not.
This will sell. Just wait and see.
X-5 is 10 speed. X-7, X-9 and X0 are 9 or 10speed for the moment. XX is 10speed and now XX1 with 11 speed.
I've been running a 1x8 setup since 1998 until few years ago I was running sram X5 trigger shifters and x-7 deraileur (all 9 speed deraileurs are compatible with 8 speed systems). Now I'm running an X4 trigger shifter with another x-7 deraileur. Sram makes 3 8speed cassettes which are good enough for me as I have no interest in having an XTR/XO/XX drivetrain. But in 2014 whose to say I'll still be able to find 8 speed parts or even 9 speed parts? I'll probably be force to buy a 10 speed which I will no doubt cut down to 8 or 7 speeds!
Wish they'd just go in the micro cassette direction like in the specialized DH team...
I am running 1 x 10 with 33T front chainring (with E13 XCX chain device), and 11-36T rear cassette, on my 29er
ap1.pinkbike.org/p4pb7671928/p4pb7671928.jpg
I rarely spin out (only on the road going to the trail head) but there are times, especially when the terrain is wet, where 33T x 36T is simply not low enough to climb very steep, technical terrain that is greasy, and I have to get off and push up the steeps
in the dry, I can clean the majority of these same climbs, every time
I am not a "casual rider" by any means, lots of power on tap and my previous AM bike with 2 x 9 let me up the same climbs every time, even in the wet!
I would love to have a drivetrain with a wider range, specifically lower climbing gears as I really don't want to go back to a front derailleur and multiple chainrings ever again...
Bums me out that mtb's are going to 11 speeds, yet these A-Hole dipshit "engineers" still haven't figured out how to do a decent internal drivetrain. 10 speed was my limit, this sucks.
And that ladies and gentlemen is the biggest problem with all of this! The majority of riders will never spend the money on this. Even those who ride Enduro which this is apparently aimed at. It will be such an expense to change everything. And you will have to change EVERYTHING drive train related.
I don't think it's a bad idea for progression, I really don't. But how about a 10speed version of that front chainring? That'd be awesome enough!
I only ride DH, and am still hoping they come out with a 3 speed internally geared rear hub: climbing, coasting, and charging.
Heck they THEY should have donethat, in my humble opinion, AND decreased the lowest cog to a 9T that way they wouldn't need a 41T rear cog! The reason for a 41T is so that you can, for example, run a 36T chainring without losing too much on the greatest gear ratio eg 36/10 (3.6*) which is decent and your easiest would be 36/41 (0.87)
If you had a 9T you could have 32/9 (3.56) and the easiest would be 32/36 (0.89) thus only needing a 9-36 cassette rather than a 10-41 which would be lighter, allow you to run a smaller chainring (also lighter) and thus have even more ground clearance AND , last but not least, no need for a new deraileur!
*3.6 means for every full rotation of the cranks your rear wheel makes 3.6 revolutions.
Yesterday I've done more than two hours on technical trails, at high heart rate, trying to beat my friends time on a specific loop, I could not give a less shit about anything else than how fast do i regenerate after efforts, how hard can I push, how do my quads feel, when should I give my lower back some rest, can I go one more cllimb standing or I should go slower seated, being very parcitular to find the right line between stones. I focused to look ahead on descents - scanning terrain for bigger rocks as I rode HT saddle up on flat pedals so no room for error on steeps
Not for a single moment had I been thinking whether my 11-34 cassette is good enough, I was rather looking for a place suitable for shifting, not how much should i shift. When I didn't shift to a light enough gear I lifted my ass up and hammered it, didn't wonder whether I should have been on an easier gear, because I had those choices - 1.mash it up in pain, 2.try to shift up more risking to break the chain, or coming to a stop - OR 3. be a looser, get off the bike and contemplate - if I only had fkn 10sp 11-36 that sits on my other bike that I left home - or maybe I could buy this new 11sp stuff
If I'm going to be doing more enduro riding in the alpes on my 19kg DH bike then I'll run a 11-32T cassette with a 32T chainring if however i'm going to be riding only in the bike park I'll cut my cassette down to 11-21 5 speed setup.(by the wayI gon't change cassette setup before each ride but only for bikepark season or offseason) Ofcourse, I agree with you that people should just man up, stand and push harder instead of constantly blaming the equipment!
It wasn't that long ago that your sacred 9 speed was viewed with the same disdain that you hold for 11 speed. If PB comments ran the industry we'd all be on rigid singlespeed bikes with V brakes - because trying any sort of innovation means at some point introducing a new standard, which is apparently going to cause the world to end this year.
Yes, I agree, there are technologies taken as underdog and turned out as new and better standard, but in this case I beg to differ. Everyone just now got used to standard of 10 speed, now its next standard. If it continues like this, after 6 month there will be new SRAM 12 speed standard and God knows what else. And all it is, is marketing from component manufacturers and way of getting extra money from those who follow the trends.
If you want to go AM or uphill on mtb, you're better of with 9X2 drivetrain, it's way more flexible then 12X1, even for free ride it's all good. If you want to go downhill, 8X1 is technically all you need, 9X1 is nice extra to have. I do not see a true market for this product. I do not see me switching nor to 11X1, 12X1 or 68X1 when my grand kids will try to explain how dope it is.
Bottom line is that 10 speed isn't going anywhere anytime soon. XX1 will be an option that will work for some riders in some places. The math proves that it can be used to create a simpler drivetrain that actually has a wider gear spread than some double ring combos.
Your arguments about the negatives of 10 and 11 speed are the same ones used about 8 speed 15 years ago. The funny thing is my 10 speed has better life and less broken chains than my 7 speed ever did. Cassette life? More gears to spread the load over the life of the cassette = longer life. Chainring lifetime will be less, for the exact opposite reason. It works both ways.
Idea was that there is difference between 2X9 and 1X11 how ever you take it. If he is ready to loose that one, I do not see a reason why not to choose the 9sp or 10sp. It's personal preference, I'm telling I do not see a point of having 1x11 whatsoever.
What is the application of it? I have 1x9 at 11-28t and I have never needed anything more in woods, park or dh track. If you're riding AM, XC, what is wrong with 2X9? There are chain guide systems for 2 chainrings, they work and very well.
For me it's not about the 11 speed. It's about the smaller little cog and a bigger big cog. I run a 1x10 currently and I want more range but there is no way I will ever run a front mech again. There are too many positives to running 1 ring. I would just like a touch more at each end. 10x38 would suit me nicely. If they offered that in a 10 speed I would take it, but that seems unlikely. Although I suppose I could take an 11 speed 10-42 and ditch the big cog to make it 10 speed with whatever the next cog down is.
So many people working so hard to present an image of toughness. Pretty sad, really.
This tech is not merely adding another gear. It's eliminating a shifter, a cable, a derailleur and a chainguide with a range that you don't have to be tough to push. How does that fit in with your image?
Maybe you're working too hard on an image of your own. Pretty sad, really.
Why do people here always complain so much? I sense a strong resistance to change in this community.
to people who dont want to upgrade but cant get spares anymore, the shops cant stock everything forever... Change is OK but wasteful consumerism is a little out of date....yeah i know .."not economicaly viable".....yet....
Extra gears aside, to invest in this setup isn't only going to be crazy expensive, (new deraileur, crankset, shifter, I'm assuming it fits on a 10spd cassette body, if not then specific wheels.), but when/if anything breaks only SRAM will have replacement parts, and if this doesn't take off then a consumer is not going to have a replacement part in 5 years or so.
I also don't know if SRAM already has contracts lined up with bicycle manufacturers, but unless they can get these setups to come stock on a few bikes the odds of them ever selling are extremely low, simply because to do this entire setup aftermarket is so costly that it's going to be a very rare sale.
Appreciation for the engineers, and R&D guys always trying to push the box, but this looks to be another Rapidrise, or XT intregrated brake lever/shifter.
Those parts are just products that are being made up to adress potential "need" and then released for us to buy them, with according marketing campaign making sure that we will buy them. The times where mass production of same elements was the way to increase the profit is gone since industries became automatized and computer controlled, and it became cheaper to produce lots of different stuff. You earn money by convincing people to buy new stuff by adressing their irrational emotions. You constantly make something new whether someone needs it or not - it is about cash flow, way more than about innovation or improving performance - it is about creating and satysfying a desire, rather than need.
It is up to you whether you play the game or not, but no matter what it remains a constant fact that in mountain biking the technology will never make up for lesser skill and fitness, especially for amateurs
What if some hipster in Portland OR decides that all the hipsters show their "irony" best by riding a bike with a full pantload of feces? Is that "progressing the sport" too?
Otherwise, sure make the 11 speed for those willing to be on the leading edge, and pay for it. It only seems to need the cassette and shifter, the rear mech transfers from 10 speed from what I understood. As for the 32 main ring, aren't most bikes now being built with either granny/36, or just straight 36 in mind? I'd expect those racing this setup to be fit enough to pull a 34 or 36 front with the current crop of 1x10.
Yeroon
Chains never came off either, no chain device, just a bash gaurd and tight(ish) chain.
I would recommend it.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7627521
Bottom line, if you think you need a 28t chainring, you are probably, much, much better off with a double.
My system will have two rear derailleurs, instead of one rear and one front. I am also working on a design that will place three derailleurs on the front fork, two more on the seatpost, and a battery-powered hydraulic shifting system with attached neon lights to let everyone know that you have something cool on your bike so that you can ride around the trailhead parking lot waiting for someone to ask you "What's that?", giving you the opportunity to show off your POS system and talk for 10 minutes, instead of riding your bike. That's what Jones Bikes were made for, right? Trailhead conversation starters with zero functionality.
Obviously the negative votes are from the poseurs who spend most of their MTB-related time posing, such as being bench-racers at the trailhead parking lot. In Iowa.
"Yeah that's right. I have the new SRAM 1x11 setup. It's the pinnacle of ALL MOUNTAIN riding. What? What do I ride? Oh I usually do a flattish 25 minute loop. No, just once. No, just once a week. It's how I get away from my wife. Yeah, that's my Porsche Cayenne. What? I'm an orthodontist. That's right. I make teenagers miserable for a living. I've got ten different MTBs. Sometimes it's hard to know just which one I'll ride today."
1. The cassette on the pic appears to be:
9-11-13-15-17-20-24-28-32-36-42 This gives the range of 466%, which is close to the 2x9, but still off by a small bit.
2. The front with alternating wide/narrow teeth is a brilliant idea, 1by drivetrain or not.
3. The whole concept works fine. I personally run 11-38 custom cassette ( 9 speed ) and after the initial wtf due to the cog size it works very well - even with the current rear deraileurs.
Overall - the concept is intriguing and I wonder how far SRAM is willing to take it.
Good job buying all the know-nothing hype about "niners" though. Seriously, really good job! You regurgitate idiotic pap as well as the folks at MBA.
I run 1x8, (and I live in the land of little rolling hills) Nova Scotia, and only want harder gears without using a monster chainring! Give me a sub 9tooth on a cassette!
Before long I will be the old curmudgeon because I am not upgrading and staying on top of all the advances. I like what I got and I will ride it till I drop or can't get replacement parts.
Why the hell should I go for an even weaker chain?
I love progression. It leads to new things. And from time to time they work. And If they don't they will vanish, anyways.
I never snapped a chain btw. This may be because of my everything, but strong legs. But hey... maybe I do, when we reach 15-Speed...^^
You didn't "offend" me at all. I don't find poseurs and idiots "offensive," I find them pitiful. As to the rest of your excuses, my only reason to climb any hill is for the descent.
What you're telling us all is that you think the IMAGE of "gravity-oriented" riding is presented with 1x___. Go on with your poseurdom and idiocy, I won't be offended. I'll just laugh, pitifully, at your need to build up bikes for an IMAGE.
Like everyone else here, I'm just sharing a viewpoint. I might hold it, or I might just be imagining it. What's the difference? Does everyone HAVE TO agree?
...and I couldn't care less about the 11 speed BS.
The ONLY disadavantage of a Speedhub is its weight, which is not so bad (it was the same weight as that year's XTR when it came out) but the weight is unsprung and I can really feel the extra 'bang' on big hits. Pinchflats seem to be more common.
The hubs last forever.
seriously bolt your heads on i know that now x0 is ten speed its hard to justify the extra wedge for xx... i think theyre trying to give more gears to try and make people spend the extra but less is probably more in this case... ten speed chains are just about coming easy to find in an emergency i dont know about everyone else i cant be assed with another mtb standard...
between choosing between bike type (hardtail, 4inch,5inch,5.5 inch, 6inch 6.3 inch 7.1 inch and 8 inch) then deciding wheel size (26 inch wheels 29inch or 650b) and then choosing frame material (steel aluminium carbon titanium) drive style(3x9, 3x10, 2x10, 1x10,1x11) and sizing (is it worth sizing up and getting a shorter stem for a more downhilly feel) and how much cash to blow in the thing its going to be nearly impossible to get the bike that you want!!!! when will it all end??
I run X( and deore and both the same......
It's cool that sram is testing things out but another drivetrain splinter is a little disconcerting. I think the technology industry can teach us the perils of format wars with every company trying to promote their own version of things...
I agree w/ Kramster and everyone else who sees this as a step in the right direction - FD's do indeed suck, but those of us who prefer long (4+ hrs) rides in high mtns, on heavy bikes, need the option of a spin-able gear every now and then. I've wanted to run 1x for a while now but still need that low gear, because getting off and pushing is lame; this looks like a promising solution.
My concern is chain angle in the low gear (lots o' torque pulling sideways) and the size of cage needed to handle the extreme slack in high gear (look at the 1st pic - it's almost sticking out behind the rear wheel). In mid or low gears that thing's gonna' be hanging mighty low... still, I'm intrigued. Let's see where it goes, I say.
Chill folks, go for a ride.
I'd like to see chain guides built into frames. Also, this mentions gripshift for this, I guess we'll get a left sided grip that matches the right shifter? That would be cool.
I did 32t x 11-34 for a year and while I could climb anything I ran into with it I like have a cruiser gear for mellow days or riding with newbs on steep trails, so I ended up back at 22t-32t again.
That said my next drive train will be 26t x11-36. that gives me exactly all the gears I use on my local trails. And I'll throw a bigger front ring on for traveling if i have to. might go 28t if i can snag one cheep and it clears my frame.
Lastly, I think internal geared hubs needs more R&D to bring their weight and cost down, nothing better then having smooth working gears all while sporting a bmx like drivetrain on the outside making broken dropouts and derailleurs nothing more then old wives tales.
I like the idea of wide range cassete, but why not make a simple 38x11 10 or even 9 speed cassete?
There are customs cogs, but high production rates, can drop the price for people that actually ride, rather than buy parts (I hope that's 80% of all).
Spiderless cranks and 28/29/30 teeth chainrings are the way to go to have low gear and some speed on flat tracks.
Now, everyone must ride in the same boat:
Frame designers - for pivot location, transmission, and riders (the most important... I think!).
And most important is: people that ride mountains (like doing 3000ft altitude in 10miles), need low gear with bikes weighting like 34lbs, or even more if riders don't want to walk!
"it goes to 11 man"
see our link above
It turns out engines and legs are different...who knew?
www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/article/sram-xx1-prototype-spotted-this-one-goes-to-11-34098
People are really that insecure that they have to run 1x___ in order to feel like a "real" MTB rider?
More "innovation" to impress the poseur gang and drive the cost upward and drive the working-well-parts into the oblivion of "outdated".
I bet this will be huge with the folks who do 30 minute rides after a 1-hour Pose-Up in the trailhead parking lot. Not really very useful to those of us who routinely ride for 5 hours or more with 3+ hours of climbing.
What exactly is wrong with a front der and a little ring? Is it something that makes men and boys feel like their penis is under-sized?
If only reality re-designed was available to the UK...
Why does nobody make this it is not rocket science? (but is also not cheap..).
I bet you never ride.
The trails I ride start with a 1300' climb....and then you start the ride. So yes, pushing the big ring.
And yes, 1x9 on the Stumpjumper Evo I currently ride. Same on the Enduro, other Enduro, Cannondale Jekyl and Cannondale Rush I had before it. Only one at a time unfortunately. Gotta save money to spend on the big fun bikes.
I, along with a lot of other people have also been putting short stems and wide DH bars on little bikes for years as well. It's nice that the industry is now catching on and selling bikes spec'd like the people who work in bike shops build their personal bikes.
Some of us have been on short stems & wide bars for at least a decade. But I'm sure you were first!
I'm not sure what you are if I'm a "moron." But it would be something sub-moron for sure.
I was playing with your bragging on being in the "vanguard" or "forefront" or "progressive" end of things when you suggested you have been setting your bikes up with short stem and wide bar, as if you have been "onto something" that everyone else misses. Clearly since you don't know me and I don't know you and I have been running short stem and wide bar since 2001, you didn't really lead the pack here and you didn't influence me and so you're not that original or visionary.
I'm sure your 1-by-___ system proves you're a bad-azz though. Funny thing about that, lots of us were running 1-by-___ 10 years ago too. Some of us even ran... no, seriously... SINGLESPEED! Good gawd, what crazy honches we are!
SRAM sealed drive please, If you dont know how to do it I can show you?
No crazy jumping full of gears derailleur, that will start to creak and jump like a wild bull after a few weeks...