More Trek Session 88 Details of its Evolution

Jun 9, 2008

Prior to Sea Otter this year Trek announced that they would be doing a media launch of the Session 88 in California. We were there and you all enjoyed the coverage from it.

Here are some more evolutionary break downs of how the Session 88 came to be and what all the technical facts mean.

“Our goal with developing a new Freeride and DH bike is in line with Trek’s guiding principle to have the best in class product for every category we pursue,” said Joe Vadeboncouer, Product Manager for Trek. “The new Session products are my personal favorites of all the full suspension bikes we build at Trek.”

The development focus of the Session design team was three-fold: create a new platform for gravity application that capitalizes on all of Trek’s recent suspension technology improvements, optimize geometry and reduce overall bike weight.

The testing for the new Session platform took place over the past three years, as a staff of engineers, designers and test riders traveled the globe to find the most diverse conditions under which to test the platform. “The bike’s development reaches far into Trek’s history. In a sense, we’ve been waiting for this moment for a very long time,” said Senior R&D Suspension Engineer Dylan Howes.

[PI=2110007 size=m align=c]First Prototype[/PI]

Considered the innovator of Trek’s ground breaking new patent-pending technology, Active Braking Pivot (ABP), Dylan Howes found himself and his development team in a precarious spot when an 8” version of the Session was approved for production two years ago. “We really had something with the original Session 8. The geometry was dialed, we were spellbound with the handling, and the weight was acceptable. But we knew from the Fuel EX and Remedy development that new technology would surpass what we were developing. So we stopped production and went back to a clean sheet of paper.”

[PI=2110006 size=m align=c]Second Prototype[/PI]

The team went back to the drawing board. Inspired by the “best in class” principle, Trek engineers and designers evaluated promising new technologies and embarked on a journey that would take two years to complete. The new and improved version of the Session platform would come to be known as the Session 88.

The Session 88 platform features all of Trek’s recent full suspension development efforts including the one piece of technology responsible for creating the most active suspension system under braking, ABP. The Session 88 platform also combines Trek’s Full Floater shock mount with a custom-tuned Fox DHX 5 coil shock, delivering the small bump compliance, good mid-stroke control and bottomless feel associated with all of Trek’s full suspension offerings.

[PI=2110011 size=m align=c]Third Prototype[/PI]

Stiffness and strength, balanced with market-leading frame weight, were a major concern for the Trek team. To that extent, Trek's industrial designers employed hydroforming and extensive frame shaping to achieve project goals. Beyond its structural elements, designers styled the Session frame to exude a visual aggressiveness intended to inspire confidence in the rider before he or she even sits on the bike. Also of note in the frame construction is the one-piece EVO rocker link and E2 tapered steerer/head tube technology, both of which make a powerful visual statement.

The two distinct bikes feature category-specific parts builds for both Freeride and Downhill, as well as graphics inspired by the environments in which the bike will be used. “Our engineers did a great job creating a bike that’s inspiring to ride. On the styling side, our goal was to use every component to create something that’s equally inspiring to look at,” said Trek’s Graphic Designer Chad Bailey, who orchestrated everything from the gold anodized frame hardware to the custom Session-branded chainstay guard. “I think we pulled it off, but we’ll let the riders be the judge of that.”

[PI=2110009 size=m align=c]Fourth and Final Prototype[/PI]

With the frame construction and aesthetics dialed, the performance of the Session 88 platform is remarkable as well. “The most exciting thing about the Session 88 is that there is not a single bike that can match its overall performance,” said Jose Gonzalez, Director of Full Suspension Technology. “Another platform might offer a similar weight, or geometry, or braking performance, but nothing else out there can match the overall package. This truly is a bike that leapfrogs all existing bikes.”

A key member of the product development team is Trek sponsored athlete and Freeride legend Andrew Shandro. “There’s a trail at Whistler called Dirt Merchant. I know that trail front and back, but on the Session, I completely overshot the jump,” he said, citing his first test ride on the final version. “The suspension technology, the platform’s efficiency, and the bike’s overall weight allowed me to carry so much more speed than I ever thought possible. It has all the qualities you want out of a performance gravity mountain bike.”


Regarding suspension performance, Trek takes considerable time and effort to fine tune its suspension componentry. “In addition to the bike’s features, the amount of testing and development we did with Fox on the suspension parts insures that no bike available will work anywhere near as well as ours, even if they also use Fox parts,” said Vadeboncouer, noting the extensive development work performed with Trek’s primary suspension partner, Fox Racing Shox.

The Watsonville-based suspension manufacturer supplies its popular DHX 5 coil rear shock, but with a special custom tune specific to the Session platform. “During development, we had prepared several different shock tunes to perform back to back blind taste tests on repeatable terrain across a broad cross section of riders. The resulting feedback on shock tunes and bike geometry ultimately led to the production version of the Session 88,” said Fox’s Mario Galasso. “The Trek/FOX relationship has developed into a mutually beneficial one and we look forward to being included at this level of the product development process in the future.”

When riders finally get on the new Session 88, they’ll find that it’s a bike by which all others will be judged.


The Session 88 DH and Session 88 FR will be available in three sizes: small, medium and large, and are slated for June production. They will be released to U.S. and International markets mid-summer. Final pricing has yet to be established.


Read on for information on the Session Shock tuning and Leverage Ratio's

Session 88 Rear Suspension Tuning

Foreword
The new Session 88 platform was designed with a completely different philosophy than the Session 10. One of the primary differences was basing the design around a shim valve shock that offers a position sensitive damper effect (Fox DHX shock with Boost Valve). We also took into consideration that we were working with 8” of travel instead of 10”, yet wanted to maintain a similar overall feel and performance as the Session 10 – more with less. Since the platform was developed around a shim valve, any other shim valve style shock can be used. However, the Fox DHX is the only shock that offers the combination of shim valve for small to medium bump performance with a position sensitive Boost Valve for large bump performance. As you will appreciate after reviewing the following graphs and information, any other shock than the custom tune Session 88 spec DHX 5.0 will force the rider to lose the optimally tuned Trek settings, which were derived from countless hours of exhaustive testing to perfectly blend shock performance with the Session 88 Full Floater system.

Although the standard FOX DHX 5.0 Coil is a high performance, highly sophisticated shock that works extremely well in standard form, it’s only possible to achieve the top levels of performance by tuning the shock to a very specific leverage ratio and rate. This requires a certain level of co-development with very clear goals, knowledge and suspension expertise from both parties and exhaustive field testing to accomplish.

The FOX DHX 5.0 Coil found on the Session 88 uses Fox’s latest main piston and coupler bolt designs which offer a superior compression and rebound feel over previous DHX Coils. Additionally, the shock is tuned with a custom dual stage compression shim stack that increases velocity sensitivity after the valves opens a specific amount. Trek has taken great lengths to tune the rebound stack in order to liven up high frequency response, while maintaining great chassis control and end stroke control (extension from the last 1/3 of travel). We have also preset the Boost Valve pressure and volume to offer the ideal blend of position sensitivity and bottom out control with no influence prior to mid-stroke.

All the following graphs and comments depicts the sole effects of the damper and do not show the effect that the coil spring adds to the system. The coil spring will add a linear increase in compression resistance that is also position sensitive. Due to the altering leverage rate of the rear suspension system, the spring force at the rear wheel (wheel rate) varies depending on where the bike is in the travel stroke. This allows for decreasing & increasing wheel rate effects that are solely based on where the bike is in the rear wheel travel. However, this changing wheel rate also affects damping, as it cycles the shock with varying amplitude and velocities depending on where it is in the travel. The quicker and greater the compression of the shock damper, the more damping effect that’s produced.

[PI=2110065 size=m align=c]Boost Valve Volume[/PI]

The Boost Valve found in the DHX shock is a pressure and position sensitive valve that controls the fluid transfer from the main damper body to the reservoir. It characteristics are completely dependent on the internal pressures created by the gas charge in the reservoir. Since an air spring is progressive as it compresses, the pressures within the damper increase according to how much the shock is compressed. Due to the Boost Valve functioning off this internal pressure, the compression damping becomes progressive as well.

The above graph shows the effect of changing the volume of the Boost Valve cavity. Since it is a position sensitive feature, the Boost Valve volume has virtually no effect in the initial 40% of shock travel. We can also see that the changes in actual force from one extreme to the other are substantial enough to be noticeable, offering nearly 60lbs of difference in force between the largest and smallest volumes. We found the best setting is with Boost Volume set in the middle, which gives us the bottom out effect we were looking for when combined with Boost Valve pressure, the two-stage shim stack, and the leverage rate of the Session 88. Ideally, we want to slow the shock gradually without harshness. Not relying heavily on a bottom out feature will give better use of the overall travel.

As a bonus, having some external adjustment also allows for individual tuning of bottom out feature to accommodate varying trail or course conditions without altering the overall compression characteristics. This is an extremely valuable feature for freeride and downhill bikes.

[PI=2110066 size=m align=c]Boost Valve Pressure[/PI]

The graph shows the position sensitive Boost Valve feature at a relatively low shaft velocity of 5 in/sec. This low shaft velocity means that the damping forces are primarily a result of the Boost valve; these shafts speeds are too low to get much of an effect from the two-stage shim stack. The graph reflects that pressures above 170-175psi start to cause compression damping effects before the 40-45% mark of the shock stroke. The 170-175psi Boost Valve pressure optimizes the balance between bottom out control and minimizing influence on the initial 40% of the rear wheel travel. This becomes even more important when we introduce higher shafts speeds as we will see in the next graph.

[PI=2110064 size=m align=c]Combined effect of Boost Valve Pressure with Dual Stage shim stack[/PI]

This graph shows the combined effect of velocity sensitivity from the dual stage shim stack and position sensitivity from by the Boost Valve feature. Running the shock at higher shaft speeds of 25in/sec produces substantially higher compression resistance (force produced) due to the influence of the Dual Stage shim stack. The Dual Stage shim stack comes into play once the shock is able to accelerate and increase velocity, which requires certain amount of shock movement to accelerate and see a noticeable increase in force. Focusing on the 170-175psi Boost valve pressure, the combined effect of position and velocity can be better appreciated with the following comparison:


Because of this combined effect of Boost Valve and Dual Stage shim stack, we get a highly responsive and controlled rear suspension that offers a very supple ride on smaller bumps such as braking bumps and roots, but at the same time handles big drops and jumps with a smooth bottomless feel.


Field testing with a standard DHX 5 revealed that we needed a greater level of control on compression at higher shaft velocities found in big hit situations. In order to achieve this we moved to a dual stage shim stack on the compression side of the piston. As shown in the above diagram, the two stacks of shims are separated. This allows the first set of shims to give a supple response in lower shaft velocity terrain or in small shock amplitudes. When shaft velocities increase due to larger hits, the relatively pliable first stage of shims contacts the second stage of shims causing the system to firm up giving the rider more control in the middle to end of the shock stroke.


The graph shows the effects of shock shaft velocity on the damper. It reflects the increased damper effect as velocity increase due to the dual stage shim stack. The enhanced speed sensitivity of the dual stage shim stack doesn’t come into play until a certain size bump or obstacle, meaning that we can achieve enhanced control without affecting suppleness. The first stage shim stack must be activated and deflect a specific amount prior to coming in contact with the second stage and increasing the damping rate.

We can see this clearly on the force vs. velocity graph above when comparing the standard single stage shim stack to the Session 88 dual stage shim stage. At 5 and 15 in/sec, the two act very similarly and produce similar force. But at 25 in/sec there’s a noticeable difference between the two. At 30 in/sec the difference is substantial. This combined with the Boost Valve feature create a very sophisticated and dynamic damper that is ideal for aggressive descending on highly technical terrain.

[PI=2110061 size=m align=c]Rebound Tuning[/PI]

This graph reflects the rebound performance enhancements we achieved by combining the new piston coupler and new main piston with careful tuning of the rebound valve. The objectives of rebound tuning were to:
1) Reduce mid to high speed rebound effect of the standard shock, which had limited our response time to successive hits.
2) Achieve this reduced mid-high speed rebound effect while maintaining similar low speed rebound characteristics as the standard shock, which controls rider input and enhances chassis stability well.

Achieving these would enhance bump responses, allowing the shock to better track the ground, particularly in high frequency response situations, such as in rock gardens, roots and braking bumps. At the same time, we balance this quicker response time with good end stroke control to control shock extension from full bottom out (maximum spring force pushing back).

The standard rebound tune we tested required us to run the rebound adjustment knob close to full open on the scale of adjustment in order to get the quick end stroke response we were after. This offered the mid velocity frequency response we were looking for but made the low velocity response too quick and still did not lighten the high velocity response enough. In other words, the shock rebounded too quick at low velocity and not fast enough at high velocity. After testing numerous tunes and versions, we locked in on the setting shown in the graph.

The graph above reflects rebound forces in the same rebound adjustment knob setting of 8 clicks out from full close (12 clicks out is full open). The Session 88 rebound tune produces similar low velocity response as the standard tune shock at 5 in/sec, and has just slightly less rebound force at 10 in/sec than the standard shock. However, as the velocity increases, the custom tune shock has significantly less rebound effect, producing 200lbs less rebound force at 20 in/sec, and where the standard shock maxed out our dyno load meter when cycling at 30 in/sec (due to going well over 1,200lbs of rebound force) the custom tune produced 1,000lbs of rebound force. This amount of high velocity rebound force still offers enough end stroke control, when the spring is extending the shock with maximum force, but offers improved terrain tracking at mid velocities due to its quicker response.

[PI=2110067 size=m align=c]Blending Shock Tuning with Instantaneous Leverage Ratio (ILR)
[/PI]

Although this graph over-simplifies the complex and dynamic function of the damper, it gives a good picture of what is taking place, and offers a better understanding and appreciation for what Trek’s engineers were after. The graph reflects how the different features, technologies and tuning blend to achieve a very sophisticated feel and the highest performance levels. Additionally, it gives some insight to the relation of the shock tuning to the ILR.

By looking at this graph, we can get an appreciation for the influence of the compression damping features through the entire rear wheel motion. It’s clear that the two most influential elements are the Dual Stage shim stack and the Boost Valve pressure. These two technologies control over 80% of the shock compression damping characteristics and is the reason why Trek’s suspension R&D group and FOX focused on dialing in the combination of these two.

[PI=2110062 size=m align=c]Leverage Ratio & Rate[/PI]

Trek focuses on the Instantaneous Leverage Ratio (Or ILR) when developing rear suspension geometry. This gives an excellent and very precise view of what the rider feels - the combination of wheel rate and damper effect.

To truly appreciate the Full Floater ILR found on the Session 88, we first need a little history lesson…The Session 10 was designed around a SPV (Stable Platform Valve) shock. Along with the platform effect, this shock technology is a position sensitive damper that progressively creates more compression damping as the shock is compressed. Because of that, the Session 10 was a completely linear rate design that relied on the SPV damper’s position sensitive progression for a rising rate effect. Due to the amount of travel on the Session 10, we also wanted to keep the spring on a linear rate to allow for better use of travel. We relied solely on the coil spring’s natural linear spring rate increase for best feel and use of 10” of travel.

When comparing the Session 88 to the Session 77, we flattened the rate and reduced the progression, which offers improved “push through” the mid-stroke with velocity sensitive dampers. Additionally, we added a slight regressive effect after mid-stroke in consideration of the compression damping enhancements offered by the 2nd stage of the Dual Stage shim stack and the Boots Valve feature. Again, this allows for better “push through” after mid-stroke and allows for consistent use of the available travel. This offers that bottomless feel and sensation of more than 8” of travel.

The advent of Full Floater technology has created more tuning options for Trek’s suspension engineers to create a moderately progressive (or rising rate) rate up to mid-stroke, which transitions into a slight falling rate in the last 1/3 of the travel. This rate is specifically designed to take advantage of the velocity sensitive shim stack and the position sensitive Boost Valve found in the DHX Coil, yielding a ride that has enhanced small bump compliance, great control through the mid-stroke and a predictable and stable feel at speed. But at the same time, it offers a ride with a seemingly bottomless feel and the perception that there’s more travel than the available 8”. When coupled with the Dual Stage shim stack and Boost Valve technology, the slight regressive rate after mid-stroke allows the bike to effectively use the 8” of travel in a very controlled and bottomless manner.

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59 Comments

  • + 5
flag NITRA (Jun 9, 2008 at 1:52)
nice
sweet bike! props
  • + 1
flag will54869 (Jun 9, 2008 at 7:56)
Frame Weight?
  • - 1
flag gustofwind (Jun 9, 2008 at 16:02)
i was on nsmb i think.. and they had it at 32 lbs
  • + 0
flag gustofwind (Jun 9, 2008 at 16:02)
complete bike i mean
  • + 0
flag s4nt4cruz (Jun 9, 2008 at 16:22)
there is no way that thing is 32 lbs....
  • + 1
flag think1up (Jun 10, 2008 at 7:32)
  • + 2
flag paul-bikes (Jun 10, 2008 at 13:43)
Sorry, but TREK was founded by a bank as a money-maker.

Support Rider owned Companies, not Big Corporations. And i seriously dont buy that they ride any better than other high end bikes. Suspension designs are very personal prefrence too, everyone has different opinions. Trek has a ridiculous "we are the best" mentality, they have finally stepped up their game to compete with the real bike companies, but never forget the diesel, or their horrible bmx bikes before mirraco.

At any rate, i will never ever buy a trek.
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  • + 4
flag dabomb666 (Jun 9, 2008 at 2:03)
Interesting stuff
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  • + 1
flag dingus (Jun 9, 2008 at 2:48)
I want one!
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  • + 2
flag DAMZ (Jun 9, 2008 at 3:21)
I´m impressed
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  • + 0
flag Renige (Jun 9, 2008 at 3:22)
awesome bike!
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  • - 10
flag mattiw (Jun 9, 2008 at 3:41) (Below Threshold) show comment
ther sweet bikes the free ride and down hill ther gona be good to watch and ride
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  • + 1
flag ktmracing (Jun 9, 2008 at 3:59)
nice bike
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  • - 2
flag lcstay10 (Jun 9, 2008 at 4:32)
soo dope trek got it right
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  • - 2
flag olynch (Jun 9, 2008 at 4:53)
have to get 1 of thoughs bikes, the dh versions looks incredible.
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  • + 8
flag grinsekater (Jun 9, 2008 at 5:19)
It looks pretty sick but always this "we_are_the best. no_other_can_compete. buy_our_stuff! – attitude" gets on my nerves... In two years they will launch another Bike which is the_best_ever_build_everything_else_is_crap. But you should know the new one is already more than an idea but in testing.
I will try to get on for a testride but so long I rather stay skeptic.
  • + 1
flag freeflyer (Jun 9, 2008 at 13:45)
Well as someone who's studying physics I can say with confidence that on Paper it is the_best_ever_build_everything_else_is_crap.
Well if you think about it they sat down and accually designed a suspension Design and shock that in simple words "I could put my grandmother on that Bike and throw her on any DH course and she'll look as fast as F**k" this Bike is gonna make DH much faster and easier.
Not to mention slow-pokes and lazy riders much faster Wink

but still they went overboard with the pricing even if it has one of the worlds most sophisticated suspension design and shock

when it hits Israel I'm gonna get one for a test drive.. muahahahhaa
  • + 0
flag ov3r1d3 (Jun 9, 2008 at 13:48)
everything you say I believe to be true, but none the less that thing is beautiful and ridiculous, I mean you pretty much have to treat it like an art piece, not something to be taken out and banged up to have a good time with
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  • + 1
flag freeridemtber06 (Jun 9, 2008 at 5:20)
anyone know a price on these bad boys yet?
  • + 15
flag bvfreerider (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:17)
Somewhere between 8 and 9 million... or your firstborn child. Which ever comes first....
  • + 1
flag sexley (Jun 9, 2008 at 10:08)
My local dealer said $3999 for the frame and $6100 for the complete bike (in Candian)
  • + 3
flag Sasquatchumus (Jun 9, 2008 at 10:14)
Trek are wanting all the kids they can get, to put into making their new super supple suspension designs
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  • + 11
flag sup3rc0w (Jun 9, 2008 at 5:47)
Man - if only I didn't have to pay for my wedding at the end of the year Frown
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  • - 1
flag jakal44444 (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:06)
Nice lol
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  • + 0
flag BrO313 (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:13)
such a sick bike i want 1
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  • + 1
flag devinci-rider1 (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:15)
crap now i have to save my money
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  • + 4
flag kopp-productions (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:17)
Very cool bike, but no one has mentioned how ridiculous the pricing is! We received our new 2009 pricing from trek, and the Session 88 DH is supposed to retail right around $8000 Canadian! The cost of the frame alone is $2500! Its a neat bike and all, but the price is way high especially considering most of the parts are no different than what you'd find on your average $6000 DH bike.
  • + 1
flag paul-bikes (Jun 10, 2008 at 13:46)
I used to work in one of the biggest non-chain shops in the u.s.

Trek's retail prices are jacked, so are many other big companies, but were talking a 4k cut for the shop on a 9k road bike, if not more.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag giantguy07 (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:53)
they aren't 8000. they will go for between 6100 and 6500 depending on the model and where you buy it(i just got a quick look at the pricing and im pretty sure the DH was a bit more then the FR). but if trek keeps with their usual trend they pricing will change 15 eff'n times before anyone ever sees the bike.

in my opinion even at 6000 its alot to pay for a bike no one has ridden. sure an intense, SC, or foes costs the same if not more (depending on the build... i know they can get to 10g's) but they are legends! i'll be interested to hop on one and see how it goes.
  • + 3
flag nlitworld (Jun 9, 2008 at 17:31)
And the Foes are worth every penny.
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  • + 2
flag kopp-productions (Jun 9, 2008 at 6:55)
According to the pricing we received, the Low dealer price was right around $8000, meaning that even at cost, the bike would still be just over $6000. I hope they adjust their pricing, because right now its not likely that they will sell many bikes, especially when there are many other great bikes out there for less money.
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  • - 1
flag citizenlee (Jun 9, 2008 at 8:10)
Damn, I'd sell an organ for an 88FR! Looks like I'd have to at those prices, especially when you consider we get totally reamed in the UK when it comes to pricing. Anyone want to buy a kidney? 1 careful onwer, only partially alcohol damaged Wink
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  • - 2
flag twigme (Jun 9, 2008 at 8:35)
i am sold on this bike i want the dh version, THis is an amazing suspension breakthrew, i hope that the bike isnt to mutch $$$
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  • - 1
flag mrtnrider (Jun 9, 2008 at 8:47)
It's a very nice bike.
I ride the bike from Nico Vink from Belgium. Very nice bike! Really!

Grtz.
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  • + 1
flag Euan136 (Jun 9, 2008 at 9:28)
I saw the DH at fort bill!!! Big Grin
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  • + 1
flag scratchypoo (Jun 9, 2008 at 9:37)
All of this stuff sounds exactly like what the dw-link does on the Iron Horse Sunday. I definitely read an article by the Sunday's designer that said he used the progressiveness of the shock to give more mid-range travel traction and help keep the suspension from bottoming out. It sounds like Trek just wants to build a Sunday. They say that these ideas are new, but they have been on the dw-link for years. Its funny because DW has the patents for the Split Pivot too, not Trek.
  • + 0
flag crohnsy (Jun 9, 2008 at 13:11)
split pivot and trek's apb are similar but different. They both have their own respective patents.
  • + 0
flag scratchypoo (Jun 10, 2008 at 5:53)
I don't think so, the Split Pivot patents are online already, but Trek has no patents. I think that the Split Pivot is a concentric axle pivot, and the Trek design definitely uses that. I guess we will see what happens.
  • + 0
flag trail-R-trash (Jun 12, 2008 at 9:24)
Neither has a patent yet.
[Reply]
  • - 6
flag sx-ripper (Jun 9, 2008 at 9:39) (Below Threshold) show comment
the sessh even looks like a sunday!
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  • + 3
flag mickmart (Jun 9, 2008 at 11:50)
I'll prolly get negative props but doesn't the 88 frame design look like a kona stab? Its just an observation, nothing against trek.
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag cambrigian (Jun 9, 2008 at 12:02)
you cant compare a trek to an ironhorse the session would eat a sunday for breakfast
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  • + 0
flag northumberlandrider (Jun 9, 2008 at 12:04)
Not really that impressed, Compared to Demo 7 and 8 for for a free ride down hill range from speci trek are way behide the demo 7 and 8 range of bikes being much better
[Reply]
  • + 4
flag northumberlandrider (Jun 9, 2008 at 12:05)
Also I forgot to mention the pricing is riduclas and ffs the trek are showing us tech other bike companys have already
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag buddhabiker (Jun 9, 2008 at 14:08)
made? done? shown us already?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag skinna (Jun 9, 2008 at 15:04)
i hate the e2 headtube dumbest idea ever
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag frjoeydh (Jun 9, 2008 at 15:26)
wow thats sweet when will they be Avil. to buy?
[Reply]
  • - 1
flag madisonracing1 (Jun 9, 2008 at 16:34)
Looks cool but it rides horribly. I wasn't impressed.
[Reply]
  • - 3
flag whatsabike (Jun 9, 2008 at 18:45)
what trek means to the dh/fr crowd: meh.

sorry boys, but for as long as people associate trek with road bikes, you're off the radar.
[Reply]
  • + 5
flag krisdaphrk (Jun 10, 2008 at 1:02)
Interesting way to explain how they achieved something thats have been done long time ago. That article sounds like an excuse of the higher leverage ratio of the new session frame. No need for such a complicated tunning that goes way too far from stock suspension products. I believe that with a 3" stroke shock and 8" rear travel on a similar linkage, the options are more and the range of satisfied customers is higher. So the words "like no other bike" sound a bit crazy for a product that can`t work properly when you made the choice to try something different that Fox.
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag norwegianqfree (Jun 10, 2008 at 11:15)
why is my comment deleted? I said "omg" to the mass of infomation on this bike, but no... retarded americans and canadians
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag jonesyman (Jun 10, 2008 at 12:57)
amazing bike i think its the best they have brought out (DH)
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag Ben92bighit (Jun 10, 2008 at 14:12)
i want to buy just the frame, looks sweet
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  • + 2
flag loverider (Jun 10, 2008 at 14:20)
its simple than it looks guys
Look at the world cup dudes,
who is racing with Treck?
....
no words offcurse
but
when we talk about ratios and other complicated staffs
we just look the tree and not the forest behind
Maestro system in Giant and DW-link in Iron horse bikes looks at the moment and as far as we conserne about ratios that they are working better than other systems 4-link bar,PvP,or single pivots
better traction better braking better pedaling efficiency so what this all about ?
I like the desing about Trek a lot Both of them
But it seems to me like a Kona bike -system-
P.S.Sandro is one of my favorites riders so I like him with or with out Trek......
(that I want to say is that a rider with obvius skills in his riding he dosent seems to care about traction and other shits)
  • + 2
flag cheetaprowlerdh (Jun 10, 2008 at 15:05)
he's probably not too worried about those insanely expensive designs because he doesnt plow a bike like 80% of the consumers do...
these designs pop out of the blue because they work better than ANYTHING, but only when one is just plowing the bike and not flowing too well...

once people realize that the way you ride a bike determines how the bike and its components are going to react, they are going to finally say "hey i dont need to spend this shiatload of money for some new flashy technology i dont necessarily need!"
and then companies like trek are going to dissappear from the downhill scene...

sure it saves you when you get out of your flow in a race, but theres only one way to get better at preventing that, and that is to learn from mistakes, correct them and quit relying on your bike to do the work for you...

nbd, i just like to rant... i know i'm not getting one though... theres more dependable ways to become a better rider and spending more than i make in a year is not itRazz
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag deathchr (Jun 20, 2008 at 15:34)
Still not convinced by the TREK hype...
  • + 1
flag JamesIDK (Oct 15, 2009 at 12:46)
What about now?
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag mig64 (Jun 22, 2008 at 12:38)
I think we're goin' to see Sam Hill on this rig next year...
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag willowlson (Aug 2, 2008 at 20:58)
that thing looks so sickterrrr
[Reply]

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