Interbike 2008 - Truvativ HammerSchmidt

I agree although it also looks ridiculously confusing. Pretty, effective, cool, but a little out of my price range for what it offers.

next month, next month....mmmmm! i cant wait i want it now!!!

Hammerschmidt is amazing.I rode it at Eurobikes Demo Day on a Mongoose bike.Its a step into the future,works brilliantly,and i believe that the idea could be used in DH.Not 2 gears,just a small ring(22-superior ground clearence) set to overdrive with a desired ratio will give the power of a 38 or 40 tooth chainring.The price and weight are ok also..

woah. looks tight. too bad i don't need another front gear.

$800 retail price, uhhh pass.

That's what I thought. It's a sweet mechanism, but it's not exactly necessary - and I don't want to pay $800 for that benefit.

also johniedamn , it could be set with 2 ratios so you can change it depending on the race...

super tech course? run the smaller ring for excerating in and out of rock gardens

big open course? a 42 tooth to pin it

it says 22/36T or a 24/38T so how are you gonna get the equivalent of a 42 tooth, he mentioned 42T in the vid but im pretty sure he was refering to the rear cassette, anyway you look at it i want it

it was mentioned above that sram could make one in a 22 tooth size and get a larger ratio such as 38-40 tooth. i simply suggested adding 2 ratios to this so you could change it according to the course being raced

All you guys complaining about the price... $800 is the mrsp not final price. NOTHING gets sold for the msrp. Second off this is the FIRST product like this on the market... of course it will be expensive. It's called r&d.

Expect things to be just like everything else and watch the price go down after more versions come out. The same as how all the douchebags picked up the first Iphone the week it came out and spent like 600$ and then months later a whole improved and new Iphone came out for half the price.

If you don't like the 800$ just shhh and wait until its cheap. Until then the gadget and new tech whores can rave all they want to about these. Heck I sure know I'd spend the money on them If I had a better job or cheaper rent.

it'll be closer to $1000 once you buy the b.b. (not included) and the special shift lever (also not included)

lol ya so i think id rather buy a bike then have the hammershmidt if it comes with any bikes next year and .or the price goes DOWN BIG TIME then i might buy it but i dont have $800 sittin around my house that im gonna use on buying a hammerschmidt

umm heavy maybe?

Who cares about weight hermo44. The whole fact is ousting the standard shifting setup will make up for any weight you add... thus making you faster still.

You know how many times Ive had drivetrain issues on a run.

i just dont think theres going to be a very wide market for the product. I know it sounds like an amazing idea which it definetly is but im just trying to figure out who will be buying it. It will probably cost around 1000 dollars with everything you need so entry level riders will barely consider buying it. For downhill racing, most riders dont really feel the need to be messing around with multiple chainrings anyways so they probably wont be buying it. Cross country racers are going to want a greater gear range and will find the weight an issue. I think this is an awesome product and if i had 1000 bucks to toss around i might buy it, but i dont really feel its a piece of technology that will be widely used, but i may be wrong

one of the first things he says hermo44 is that its for all mountain and freeride use

the thing that amazes me the most is that back to that time that sus bikes were springy wreck machines, this thigs was already inveted, and refine to nowadays, imagine whats going on in the labs for the next years...

It's for freeride and all mountian. Most DHers use a single front ring any way.

What i like most about it is if you have a bike that is really heavy, and you need a lighter gear to pedal, this could be the front gear system to use, because from what i've read you don't need any post mount system to shift.

but you do need an iscg i think?

its just like a sealed bearing.
you never have to grease or lube it and nothing can get into it.

halfdermatch, have you ever seen the inside of a vehicles transmission?

Yea transmissions are proven. Sure they go out with enough time, but deraillurs and shifters do as well.

have you ever slammed a transmission on rocks repeatedly while racing down a mountain

No but I have slammed my transmission on 4 foot rocks before. I have hung up on logs with it, had debris slam into it. Never broke my lifted trucks tranny. Seems you really have no clue what your talking about. The GT I rode in co had a gear box on it. I beat the snot out of it and never once had an issue.

Next time you try and sound smart at least know what your talking about.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2954255/

there is my lifted truck. I know ALL about hitting stuff, getting caught up on logs and rocks because I 4wd all the time. Simply put, the transmissions housing has NO effect on the insides integrity. That's the whole point in the transmission case, to protect the internals. SOoooo if your breaking a bikes gear box by hitting rocks it's a POS to begin with. Hitting a rock should have NOTHING to do with shifting. NOTHING. Being the internals are enclosed and not winding open gears on the outside of it.

I'll bet you would never be able to literally break a gear box in half, weather it be on a bike, or on a truck. Simple.

So in the end, it's nothing to do with external strength and everything to do with internal strength... and transmissions have proven to work internally... simple. A gear box is a near 100 years old technology. All that was done is creating a system to make it functional for a bike... but the physical idea of a transmission has been more than proven.

wow youre so smart, im in complete awe

Nice, but I hope it would be cheaper in next years. Now it should cost about 700EUR for complet set.

looks like the fr has steel insert but dunno bout the am

Yeah you could. After all, the chain remains on a single sprocket at the front, and the internal sun gears change the ratios.

Good to here, maybe it will come up in the future!

Sure yoou can.

but the ll have to build a right shifter with two gear choices..

it would be sick if someone came up with a system like this to replace the rear cassette and derailluer

its called a rolloff hub

can you post a link to your aledged rolloff hub

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rohloff.html

dude, you gotta be kidding... this Rolloff whatever is for cruiser bikes.. not DH at all!

not true, i have a friend who runs one on his DH bike, despite being a little heavy, it handles everything fine, drops, jumps, wrecks, you name it.

? allen. Roloff's work fine for dh. What are you smoking.

Could'nt agree more.... decent idea ruined by a bottom bracket made from clown shoes and rotten turnips .

i would take a look at the pics of my saint snapped axle.
i wouldnt trust saint too much. i am only using race face and truvative from now on

yep, that's why i'm back to ISIS interface! way better and stiffer! (FSA DH ISIS bottom bracket and a HOZFELLER ISIS crankset)

Shimano = crap.

Always been that way. From pedals that break, to crappy cranks for dh. They make xc, am, and road stuff. The saint stuff just isn't as strong as they claim. Partly because they are still new compared to the r/f cranks and haven't had the many years it takes for solid reviews.

but either way, both suck. All aluminum cranks suck. They all will break. They all will strip. I broke my profile race arms and put the dj arms on. I kno my cranks and bb is heavy as hell, especially with a 100mm bb, but I have had not one issue since the change, and can probably ride these cranks for 20 more years.

Screw buying new cranks and bb's every season. I'm tired of that crap. Steel is real, go buy profiles. (we proved alum cranks don't work in bmx racing. The guys running saint generally have the carbon frames and forks and are not worried about re buying bikes every season... but for the ones who have to support their own hobby, profiles are the crank of choice. Cheap, run smoother than any alum crank bb (even phil bb's), and will last forever. Simple. Problem solved.

ok what about these.
primo power/hollow bites one of bmxes most popular cranks in the uk, made from alu
i am not sure i trust your statement

quote "we proved alum cranks don't work"

seems you may be wrong possibly

I have to agree with you on the primo's, but they are un heard of for dh around here. I ran primo alum cranks for awhile during my gram saving days, they held up awsome.

My buddies all had them on their dirt jumpers also. Rock solid.

But anyways they also weighed as much as my profile dj cranks so you were not saving weight by running aluminum. They were stiff and rarely snapped due to how big they were. Street riders didnt like them because of grinding chunks off during pedal grinds.

I still have my super cut primo mustache bars in the garage also

Run primo pedals on all my bikes also. Heck everything that comes from Primo is top notch. By far the best bike company on the planet and I'll for ever swear by that.

btw good call mate

put the primo ti axle in and you on a winner

What are you even talking about?
Designing a frame to accommodate a 22 or 24 chainring? Newsflsh- Most freeride frames accommodate double or triple chainrings, which include 22 or 24 granny gears.

Yeah runner, Pretty much any full sus bike will be good as long as it´s got the chain guide tabs.

Runner=Noobsauce

Many modern suspension bikes, especially single pivots, have been designed to give you the best compromise of suspension action vs pedal feedback in the middle ring, because that's where you live most of the time (and all of the time if you're a 'single ring and chainguide' type. Although the Hammerschmidt is effectively a middle and granny ring in one unit, it's physically a granny ring (with overdrive) for pedal feedback purposes. If your bike bobs and bucks in the granny ring (something that most of us learn to live with in exchange for supple middle ring riding) then it's going to do just that in both the granny and the overdrive/middle ring...
That's what Runner was probably trying to tell you.

I have to disagree, granny ring pedaling gives you the least amount of pedal feedback. You are putting the lowest possible torque on the suspension while riding in the granny gear and therefore should have the lowest pedal feedback. I really do not understand how it is possible the granny would give you more bob than a middle or big. Last bike I had with double rings was a X1 and had significantly less pedal bob in the granny gear.

If you have ever rode a VPP bike in the granny ring you would realise what I'm talking about. BTW, I've not made the above comment up, ask any frame designer. Why do think suspension frame designers struggle to find the optimum pivot placement? Have you ever rode an old school high pivot design? They mostly lock out under power. A constant change of chain position has a huge effect on how the suspension performs under power. Pivot placement is a very engineered process, its not just a case of putting the pivot where ever you want.

Cannot say anything about VPP since I have never ridden one but I can speak of Mastero and Full Floater as those are the two I have ridden with a granny gear. When I dropped it into the granny gear on both those bike I experienced only better pedaling platform. Honestly have never experienced negative effects on suspension in the granny gear when using it for climbing.

In a traditional granny ring you put less torque on the frame since the gearing is so low. But with the hammerschmidt you have the same profile and now much more torque on the frame. This change in ring size will have a profound effect in single pivot bikes that are, like themaninthenorth said, a compromise for pivot location that gives the least pedal feedback and the best axle path for absorbing hits. This is engineered using the most common ring size for the bike i.e. middle ring for a AM bike and a big ring for a DH bike. On most VP and horst link bikes this won't be a problem though.

So you have ridden 2 designs and you have decided that no other bikes are effected by riding in the granny ring!

As much as I enjoy arguing with old people on forums I think I may have lost this argument so I am going to peace out.
This is why I stick to single rings, less problems.

Thanks for explaining Themaninthenorth and timmers, that's what I meant when I wrote that.

Granny gear produces more torque than bigger rings, that why it's easier to pedal up a hill in your granny. But otherwise timmers is right, it should work just fine on VP and similar suspension designs that use a fancy axle path to minimize pedaling feedback, but not so well on others.

Wow. sounds like a lot of voodoo and hokus pokus engineering to me.
Firstly the torque is applied by the riders legs in conjunction with the crank arm length, hence values of newton/meters, foot/pounds etc and that torque is centered through the bb spindle.
The gearing at the crank is comparable with whatever sproket you happen to be in at the rear wheel.
The torque applied at the cranks is that needed to drive the back wheel round at a certain speed in certain conditions, and no matter what that torque is, it will still be centered on the bottom bracket spindle and will only be the maximum force a riders strength can apply multiplied by the crank arm length.
This crankset will not change the way a suspension system works compared to an ordinary crank setup with middle and granny gears having an equvelent number of teeth and the same crank arm length.

"This crankset will not change the way a suspension system works compared to an ordinary crank setup with middle and granny gears having an equvelent number of teeth and the same crank arm length."

The problem is that a regular crankset with a small granny gear like 22 or 24 teeth often doesn't pedal as well as a 34-38 tooth ring because frames are designed to pedal best in the middle ring. There is more pedal feedback in the smaller ring because the frame is not optimized around it. So since the Hammerschmidt is essentially a 22 or 24 tooth ring, regardless of whether you are running overdrive or not, it will not pedal as nicely as a 36 (or so) tooth ring, unless the frame is actually designed around a 22 or 24 tooth ring.
That is why I was saying that manufacturers needed to start designing frames around a smaller chainring size if they want to truly accommodate the H.Schmidt.

(Have I actually gone out and tested it? No. But I am repeating what I have heard many many people say about small chainrings and pedal feedback. I am sure the H.Schmidt works very well either way, but I just wanted to point that out).

The way the frame pedals is not due to the physical size of the chain ring, but to its gearing properties. Therfore in overdrive, the the crank will have the same effect on a frame as a traditional crank running for example a 36 (or 3 tooth ring.
The way the frame reacts is not due to chain line or length dut due to the forces applied at the cranks and by a riders pedaling stance and style
I can also imagine shorter chain length is possible, which is all good, right?

A single pivot bike is effected by pivot placement and chain line! Its one of the most important factors when designing said bike!

how mush would a crank, bb, shifter, rings (if separate) and a new ft derailer cost otherwise?

It will turn into a brake for down hill? Huh?
Oh, you meant break.
Well, it might break, which is why it is not designed for DH applications. See anyone running a 22T on a race course lately?

there is a race near where i am which is 8 miles downhill with 2miles uphill, the downhill bikes loose to the crosscountry bikes only because they have to hike there bikes up hill cause they dont have the gearing, this would be sweet for that race, but pointless for most downhill races which are all *down*hill

but it could be as god as possible right??? lol

awesome idea!

or 3 ride the parts that havent let you down and pick one up at the end of the rideing sesion because face it some little spoilt brat isent going to like his new bike and sell it off and put a single speed on. Happens every day. Some peoples children.

hey now, i do love seeing DHR's going for 700 bucks for the frame. gives me great hopes for when i try to sell mine.....

Dude all companies are based on marketing moron. You have to sell product to be able to support future R&D. What's up with all these socialists around here.

Have fun with your high taxes zap. Even though I'm half british I must say that you guys really do have most things basackwards.

4 years i would be chuffed it anything last 4 years abuse. i would really expect to replace ware n tear parts more often

Shimano & Roloff both made rear hub trannys

I would leave that to chris king but good call

Well said that man!

seconded! and does anyone think it might be possible to run the cranks engagedin the higher gear ratio without having a shifter, so it just stays there? cos it would make for a sweet single ring freeride bike with the extra ground clearance etc, would be more compact, out of the way and you wouldnd have the extra cables and shifter cluttering up your bars.

probably wouldnt work but its an idea

how are we trend whores for saying "sick" and "gnarly"

Those words have been used in similar context since the early 90's. You my friend are just out of date and find a need to bitch at someone for using a term. So I'll use em both again for you...


That SICK bike, is SO sick that it looks gnarly enough to handle the sick gnarly trails a sick gnarly bike would normally use.