I don't know about the weight of the scout my bfe is only 340g heavy

 Really, then in that case I think this Scout frame must be one beefy aluminium frame, as the BFE is known for its toughness and strength.

 I'd wager that steel is a good reason for the cotic reputation. That material can take a lot of abuse. Not sure if I would go alum for a heavy duty hardtail. When they go they usually go without warning. Plus as you say, steel takes sting out. Stick a carbon bar on there and save your hands/wrists too.

 Ahh! now there we have a problem! I can't use carbon bars, there is something going on in my head, constantly thinking that they are going to break! lol. sounds stupid I know, but thats how it is. All of my other bikes have Alloy bars, they are equally as likely to fail in know.....
As for Cotic, beautiful frames, fast and feel good...... that leads to another question that someone may beable to answer, why would they build a full sus steel bike (Rocket)?

 Talking about carbon bars, I often think about wanting to try them, I've seen some carbon bars from a well known brand for half price and the fact they're half price and about the same price as a good pair of alloy bars is making me wonder why they're half price, are they going to snap I think!, and plus if you have a crash and hit your bars you're supposed to replace them, which isn't the case for alloy bars I believe. The main reason I'd like to try them though is as conv3rt says they supposed to reduce hand fatigue and vibration, I just wonder how true that is?, seems the only way I'll find out for sure is to buy them, but at the moment don't really just have the money to buy something I'm not sure is going to be a worthwhile purchase. Also on the subject of bars, those new Spank Vibrocore bars look interesting.

Not sure what the true idea behind the steel Cotic Rocket full suspension bike was, although I do like that bike, have thought about wanting one before but wanted 650b, which apparently is coming. I guess it was because Cotic make steel bikes and so it was easy for them to carry on using the same material, infact I'm sure now I read something similar to that somewhere before, I'm sure thats the reason. Plus its a good selling point, something different, I like the idea of it being steel as I know it will be strong. I believe Cotic might be making some aluminium frames of some kind soon though.

 I've been on a carbon bar in one form or other since Easton monkey lites in the 25.4 diameter. So far (touch wood) not one issue. Now running an easton havoc and nuke proof warhead in 31.8. Excellent products both bought on sale in the range of an aluminum bar. I swear by the vibration damping properties. I'd say if you decide to try one, get one that's meant for heavy use DH or AM at least. Don't over tighten the controls. If they spin on the bar in a crash, they could create a score mark and therefore a weak point. I'd say the same for aluminum by the way. I'm thinking about a chromag BZA but wonder if there's a benefit to the new 35 size. Like said, never had an issue. I really like the nuke proof bar. Nice and wiiide. I ride 90% DH trails on a hardtail and a banshee rune. Sometimes I ride smoothly, sometimes not so much. It's not like I'm floating down trails like the pros. I know my chiropractor by his first name. Lol there's a good Santa cruz video about carbon vs aluminum you should watch. I have no hesitation on carbon parts and frames done by big brands.

 For the record I think this frame is super cool. If they made this in steel I'd be lining up for one. They are listening to the crowds.

 this is a sweet looking frame, on your list of maybe's? on the carbon bars, i just cycled over 1200 kms non stop (only for sleep) using carbon bars, they absorb the high frequency trail hum that makes our fingers/hands go numb. the other big deal about carbon is the strength to weight ratio, they rarely break and will out perform alloy bars, alloy work hardens, the more you flex it the harder (brittle) it becomes then...snap!

 Yep, I know, but as I mentioned my problem with them is all in my head, sounds stupid I know, but hey..... such is life.. lol

 You two guys have reassured me that I need to buy some carbon bars to try out asap even though I have two perfectly good aluminium bars here....
'conv3rt', funny you mentioned the BZA bar as thats one of the bars I'm interested in buying.

 As for this frame, its not on my list of maybe's. I would like to get a better quality steel frame first to try and see how it compares to my cheap steel frame. I have just lately been thinking about an aluminium frame for weight saving but it seems that they may not save that much, depends on the frame I guess, but that would be my main reason to try one if I did. I wonder how much a few pounds in weight overall would make to a bike in return for a harsher ride, maybe not worth it. I guess thats why steel is so popular for hardtails. Plus I much prefer the look of a nice steel frame over aluminium.

 yeah, the BZA looks pretty sweet. I'd like to get a red one once I buy the army green surge evo frame. Everything else black. think that would look cool

 looking forward to seeing what you choose for a frame. I'm kind of on the market as you can tell!

 Yep the red one, with new the green Surge...funny that, I've alao thought of that combo myself.

 As for a frame, to be honest something around the £350 max price range would be nice but I don't know if I'll get a new frame for that, will have to see what comes up in the next few months, if not I'll just have to spend more money to get what I need.

 The aluminium Eccentric is only £300...ticks all my boxes other than its aluminium, maybe I should try an aluminium frame instead. The Dartmoor Hornet is a super cheap aluminium frame, but I'm not keen on the looks, I wonder if they will make a new 2015/16 frame that looks more like the Scout or the Eccentric style for a similar price as the Hornet.

 To be honest witrh you I was looking at aluminium pne rather than the steel. I think my days of steel are done. A good pair of forks and a nice pair or large volume tubeless tyres and most of the trail sting/chatter get eliminated anyway, with the bonuses of no rust, a lighter frame and in my opinion a far nicer looking frame (sorry steel purists!)lol

 As silverfish said after reading all this i am seriously considering carbon bar now, but before they were a big no but i might have to get some of the faceface ones as they look so nice.

And @silverfish1974 see if you can try a cotic they are in your budget at 329 and they ride amazing and definetly take the sting out of the trail whilst still being stiff. They also have amazing geometry and decend amazingly but i was also gob smacked when i tryed climbing on it as it climbs really well as well which is usually quite rare.

 lol, I have really got to get over my phobia of carbon bars and try them too....

I didn't realise that the cotic frames started from such a low price, last time I looked a couple of years ago, I am pretty sure that they started at £500+
I will go away look.....and confuse my choices even more...lol

 hahaha yeah they are £329 for frame only, which is really cheap considering the quality of the building and quality of the ride

 I see that you have one, the cotic specs on their site are a little confusing, as they say that the seat tube is 35mm, but it doesn't state the internal tube size! is it 31.6 or 30.9 ?

 31.6 internal for definate and i think it is 34.9 external

 Great! I can use that KS lev post that i have. I also see I can also run my tapered kashima 160 fox 34's.... I think that i am sold! thanks for the info mate.

 @silverfish1974-- it might be titanium that suits you best bud? rides better than best steel frames, is lighter and won't rust, very comfortable as like carbon, the ti absorbs trail buzz, it is amazing stuff.

 great you will love it ... just be careful in the corners as it corners so fast i went out for my first ride on it and was told to be careful in the corners as the first time the mechanic at the bike shop i work at had hopped on his he had gone into a corner and it was 90 degreed but he ended up going 180 and i didn'ty believe him at firast but when i took it out i was amazed.... it does corner really well and i to ended up turning 180 degrees nearlly.

@baggyferret although with a budget of around 350 i am not sure @silverfish1974 will be able to get a decent titanium frame

 ah yes the cost is always more but 2nd hand frames can be found and as ti is super tough it will be as new still

 fair enough

 No my budget is £550 max as I know that's what its going to cost at the most to get what I want. But if I could get a frame for £350 it would be better, but I suppose that goes without saying...

You know what, that Scout frame is kinda growing on me the more I look at it...

 do you have a bike shop or a mate that will let you try a ti bike for a long ride? if you love steel you will see what all the fuss is about with ti frames..oh and also the salt on the roads at winter wont affect it..it kills alloy and steel!

 www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1657891

 No not that I know of, wouldn't mind trying one out, I've had an aluminium mtb and a carbon one in the past, aluminium did actually feel awful, stiff and no give in it, but it was a cheap one, the carbon one felt really light yet strong but didn't own it for long as I stupidly sold it just to get money, which I regreted for a while... That ti On-One is quite tidy and wasn't a bad price...

 You like this then. I kinda like it but I'm not keen on the seat tube brace, looks ok on the small frame but looks a bit naff on the larger size. I think its just the way the welds stand out on aluminium frames, they look too blotchy if you know what I mean.
But yeah its a still alright, a reasonable price, I guess it will be fairly light, looks strong and has all the latest features.
I guess the main reason for going with an aluminium frame is the weight saving over steel?, just I hear bad stories all the time about the ride quality of aluminium over steel, I guess it depends on what its going to be used for.....