Crap. I pretty much have nothing nice to say about the Sunday's suspension...rode one for one day and I want my 6 hours back! After 3 hours of tuning, swapping springs, psi, etc, etc, I finally got it to feel a teeny bit softer than my hardtail...on the really big hits. On the fast stutters....? Yeesh.
So I dont doubt that it's better, just hope it's a bit more active!
And it sure as hell looks a TON better! Should throw a Cane Creek adjustable headset in that thing. Would look SICK all choppered out! How long till it's built up?
b-free, the Sunday for bikes is kind of like the new Ferrari 599 GTO for cars.It is not user friendly, it will never be, it can not show what is made for unless driven by the ones that have talent and guts! It can take you where others never will, only if you are capable of following it... Its suspension is that hard for one simple reason...It was not designed to "swallow" everything... It was set to be as responsive as a bike can be... Be as fast as it can be... Don't try making it soft... It will never be... Try making a GTO soft... It will be laughing at the one who tries... I'm not saying I can drive a GTO or ride a Sunday(I do not owe any of these...) as they deserve but can, at least, appreciate these companies for having those miracles made...
Nono....not trying to make it soft...tried to make it more responsive! Even Sam Hill himself saif he was shocked how active his Demo is compared to his old Sunday. I didn't have a bunch of rednecks out in a field spinning knobs...we all went out with the purpose of just trying the different suspension designs, seeing what we liked about what and what we didn't. NO ONE liked the Sunday and the owner actually sold it when we all got back home! And I actually prefer bikes that give more terrain feedback or feel....the Sunday just seemed to lock up and do not much of anything when it got fast and jittery. Couldnt really even just pop and flow the rough sections cuz the damn thing weighed 45 pounds and he claimed that was "light."
It seems to me that the guy that sold his bike made a big mistake! Sundays do have a specific way of being tuned! Their DW-link is designed for the suspension to be less busy trying! As the man who designed it said:"The suspension only has to deal with absorbing bumps, not absorbing bumps PLUS acceleration forces. This lets you run a lot less damping and a lower spring rate. It also lets the bike hook up better in corners off the power because the bike is not overly stiff to compensate for pedaling. If you think this sounds pretty trick actually – you should get to try one!! Because the Sunday has a low leverage ratio, and also because the Sunday's leverage rate curve was designed to be less progressive in the beginning of the stroke than many older bikes. This in itself rquires less low speed compression damping." Take a look: http://www.pinkbike.com/news/article2512.html It has same more advice about tunning a Sunday! If you are given the chance, try these! It might work then! I do respect Hill's opinion but, on one hand, there are 5 more years of evolution in the new Demo and, on the other, Specialized is his new team... Imagine him saying:"Oh, the new Demo is not like my old Sunday! Those guys here in Specialized are not doing it that well". He never would! I don't say that there is huge gap between the two, I just think he would never do this to his sponsors...! By the way, I'd like to ride the new Demo(as I never had the chance) to see how it feels...!
Sorry...I think DW is a self-hyping douche bag, so quoting him wont make me want to learn more! Ever notice that EVERY bike with one of his "designs" on them has a 42 page Sticky thread on places like Ridemonkey on how to tune it to be less shitty? Can go to the DH forum there right now and I bet there's 3 still going. I haven't been on there in awhile...prob for that reason.
I had 2 demos over the course of 2 separate years. Not horrible, odd weight distribution but short CS length...and I'm done with the Sunday. Actually..I was done with THE Sunday on THAT sunday! And like I said...these weren't chumps, all racer bois. Actually...I think I was the only one NOT on a team. And Matt loved his Sunday...until we all started switching bikes. I dont even know anyone who owns a Sunday anymore, nor do I ever feel the need to get on one ever again. Been there, tried that, it sucked. Selling my Legend to try my first single pivot in 6 years, a TR450, see how that goes...
Uh...lol...yes they are! haha! Same BASIC design as Evils, Morewoods, Commencals, etc, etc...I say BASIC because take the shock activation links out of the picture and the wheel path is mostly the same. It's how the shock is activated that makes the bikes all act differently. Not to mention ANYTHING that has the axle in the same chunk of aluminum that the lower pivot is located in. Soooo...that means Konas, EVERY Transition ever made, Banshee Scythe...wait....
It would be easier to state which bikes AREN'T single pivot! The Banshee Legends, Santa Cruz bikes, Intense bikes, Specialized bikes, older Devinci's, those are all "virtual pivot" of parallel link'd bikes.
If you can take off ALL the other tubes and links except the chainstay and the wheel is still atached directly to the main, lower pivot bearings...it's a single pivot. Specialized bikes are Horst link. Meaning the wheel actually bolts to the SEATSTAY, not the chainstay, thus the wheelpath changes though it's cycle. Same as the older Devinci's.
Dudes...I'm like a really immature 38 years old. I've been riding flatland, bmx and finally MTB since I was 3. I just KNOW this stuff, alright? Not trying to "school" anyone or anything, it's just always in my head, it's what I do and it's ALL I know! Just curious to know how anyone can get the idea that something like a TR450 ISN'T a single pivot, when it's the most OBVIOUS of single pivots!
And I CAN'T just go ride a bike! It's -16 right now and there's 4-5 feet of rock hard, frozen snow on EVERYTHING! THIS IS ALL I'VE GOT! lol!
The guys right: Most of these bikes are single pivot regardless of what the companies say (ie. Kona's 'faux bar' linkage). The thing thats different in them is how the shock is actually pushed; All that affects though is the suspension rate, the wheel paths remain the same.
wow. Sorry...I have a problem with people who ride bikes that they dont even understand. And it's a pretty big deal for those who TRULY love to ride. To understand what's happening when your bike is chattering over braking bumps, or why it skids around corners instead of just lock in and hook. Some people ride there bikes...not just ride on them. Once you learn the difference, it's a whole new world. Good luck with all that.
If you "just know this stuff" why did you even ask if its a "floating shock setup"? With your knowledge, I think you'd be able to decipher it by the picture. Just because everyone doesn't break it down to a science as far as how the bike works, doesn't mean they don't love to ride their bike. How is that fair to even say? Everything you post is completely narcissistic. The people who truly love to ride, will ride whatever. It's called passion.
For the same reason you'll never find a race car driver who doesn't understand how his transmission works. And how am I supposed to "know" if it's a floating shock setup like a trek or a Mondraker or frame mounted like a Sunday? Good grief, it was just a question. And ChrisCav is now in my friends list and we've been chattin in private ever since all this.
I fail to see how anything I've said is "narcissistic" when I'm only speaking simple, basic truths. The kid doesn't even understand what a single pivot is or what he's riding, how the hell is he going to tune it? No, not my problem, but doesn't mean I wouldn't love to give a little input for what it's worth.
Here, I'm as interested in frame design and the technology which goes into it as much as I am actual riding - Theres nothing wrong with that. As a community, Pinkbike is about more than just the ride. I'm sure B-Free can vouch for the same thing. Cant you not respect that?