well, i felt so compelled to send an email to someone at pink bike because they left out this pic and the important weight info.. sorry, just had too. hope i get a reply.
carbon tech has come a long way in the last 10 years, carbon is seen everywhere from cars to aircraft, i would trust a carbon frame and handlebar over an alloy one any day, im yet to brake a carbon bar, and i have a box full of snapped alloy and bent cromo bars.
That is DT Swiss EX 1750. They are not marketed as a DH rim (www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/Wheels-MTB/EX-1750 - DH bar is empty) and had been crashed much harder than the rim in this thread.
This is exactly why I don't buy the carbon hype. With the exception of a water bottle cage, riding carbon anything on a bike is a disaster waiting to happen. Catastrophic failure is too high of a risk. Carbon doesn't give you a warning before failure, it just goes. Anyone riding carbon bars is nuts too. I've seen dudes lose teeth because of them. It's a shame these photos got pulled from the review.
I have a lot of friends that race CCX and Road at a very high level, as well as friends who race XC at a fairly high level (many overlap all 3, if not DH also). They are basically the only 3 groups I have encountered that run carbon bars regularly, and even they worry about it. One friend in particular that comes to mind races Pro category XC on an S-works Stumpjumper 29 hardtail runs alloy bars because they are safer. Weight penalty? Yes. Is having all your teeth worth it? Also yes.
Every mountain and road biker I know runs carbon bars. None of them have ever suffered a catastrophic failure. My boss weighs close to 200 pounds and rides a 15 lb road bike with carbon bars, rims, cranks, stem, and brakes. No issues with the carbon failing.
well duh, its a freakin road bike dude... hit the jump just as high as they did in the review on that bike and let me know how that works out for you. carbon on a dh bike, isnt comparable to a road bike. hell, id say its not even comparable to xc stuff...
There are plenty of guys out there on carbon DH bikes. Seems like every company has a carbon DH frame these days. We've all seen the video about how strong the Santa Cruz carbon frames are. Not sure why people still doubt carbon in the MTB world. I've been running carbon bars for years. Have had a few carbon MTB frames. All my MTB friends ride carbon bikes, and they ride hard too.
I go on a weekly group AM ride that is between 20-40 riders depending on the time of year and maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of them have carbon bars. If 90% of the mountain biking population rides carbon those numbers should much be higher. Side note I have ridden enve DH bars and gravity CSI bars but i still prefer the race face atlas bar, it just feels the most comfortable to me. Not that i worry about strength or longevity, it's just personally preference to the ergonomics.
everyone you know, maybe. Look at every single user on pinkbike. Guaranteed 90% of them aren't running carbon wheels OR bars. Ride with some rich buddies? Well, that'd explain the 90%. I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell that 90% of mountain and road bikers run carbon components. Reverse that figure (90% DON'T use carbon components), and it'd be much closer to the mark.
The first thing I replaced on a "near new" road bike I bought off eBay were the carbon bars. Just didn't know their past history so couldn't trust them. Got an alloy one that weights about the same, costs half the price and does not require a torque wrench on the bolts. I am the original owner of all my other bikes including the DH one. Not one of them has carbon bars installed despite a couple of nice looking carbon nanotube bars laying just next to them. @seraph I find it hard to believe I am the minority here.
You can find it hard to believe all you want, it's not going to make you correct. A lot of things are hard to believe. I find it hard to believe that you all find it hard to believe that most road and mtb riders are rocking carbon bars. I cannot see the downside of carbon bars. They're strong, light, just as wide as (if not wider than) alloy bars, and they have superior vibration dampening qualities. A crash that breaks your carbon bars would destroy alloy ones as well.
First of all @seraph, take a chill pill. You and the rest of the bicycle industry can push carbon down our throat all you want, its not going to change the fact that when carbon fiber fails, it either leaves very little clue that it has actually happened (internal or barely visable cracks) and eventually it can fail catastrophically. The tester of these ENVE rims has suffered a separated shoulder as a result of that failure. Tell it to him. In his own words: "Carbon has it's place, which is for race use only. If you ride hard every day, forget about it."
Thing is I know plenty of guys who ride hard every day on carbon and not a single one of them has broken anything carbon so far. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Seraph, you're in California, and let's face it, there's way more money floating around down there than anywhere else in the states, or pretty much anywhere else, so it makes sense that all you see is carbon this and that. For you to make a generalization that 90% of mountain and road bikers have carbon bars is a very localized viewpoint, and you apparently haven't been anywhere outside of your own little world. I've ridden all over your state and the trails are pretty tame, so it's likely that you wouldn't even see any 'hard riding' to begin with. I had these wheels for 5 weeks before they broke, and they were not 'prototypes' as Enve is claiming. I've broken just as many alloy parts as carbon, but carbon doesn't seem to last even half as long. Once a single fiber strand is compromised, it's over. But, it makes plenty of money for you and your bike shop so you love it. The type of rider who lives in California and has carbon all over their bike likely has a cush job that they don't want to compromise by being injured, so they aren't actually riding 'hard' at all. I've worked in bike shops for 16 years, I know the type. The people that drop that kind of coin in a bike shop aren't riding all that much.
Ok, come down to Cali sometime and ride with us then, because basically what you are doing right now is saying that we don't ride hard. Because you obviously know everything. You have ridden everywhere in my state. Every trail. And none of them were hardcore enough for you. You're obviously too hardcore for my state.
You've worked in bike shops for 16 years. You know the type. Sure you do. I've worked in bike shops for 13 years, have I not worked in shops long enough to know what I'm talking about? Or should I contact you in 3 years?
Feel free to contact me when 90% of all riders are using carbon. I certainly don't claim to be some sort of genius. You're quite right; I haven't ever had a real job at a bike shop, only helped out. I'm young. I have no reason to mistrust carbon components, and I'd be quite happy to use them. I'd get a carbon bike if I could afford it. As it is, I'd definitely get an Enve or Protaper bar if it didn't mess with any of my sponsorship deals. All I'm saying is while you may ride with 90% people who use carbon, the number of people who don't use carbon on their road or mountain bikes in America; even in California, will greatly outweigh the ones who have all aluminum.
I'm basing my claim off of the fact that I have raced before, and I know many of the local riders, and obviously if I meet a guy on the trail, I'll take a look at their bike. Last time I went to Vietnam (Milford, MA) there was a group of 6 or 7 people on high end AM/XC bikes. Pretty expensive stuff. Spesh, Santa Cruz, three of them worked in the Milford bike shop. Only one of them had carbon components on his spesh XC bike...he had a carbon bar, and was the owner of the bike shop - he wants something, he gets it. Add to those 6 people myself and the friend I was with, and you have 2 people with carbon components - the owner of the bike shop with his bar, and my friend with the carbon linkage on his V-10. So you get 2/8 people, or 1/4. If you don't want to count me as a "mountain biker" because I own a cheaper bike, that's still 2/7 people with carbon components. If I go to highland or any downhill race, most people run aluminum, because it's cheaper.
Go ahead and get pinkbike to make a poll on how may people currently have carbon components on their bikes...
And as for road bikers, the only ones I personally know have full cervelo kits, so they do run carbon (pretty much carbon everything). However, I see more people on the road running aluminum, so I simply can't see how 90% of road and mountain bikers use carbon. You say you work in a bike shop; do 90% of the bikes sold have carbon components? Quite frankly, this is a stupid argument - You used slight hyperbole in response to somebody who hates carbon, and it's really not a big deal.
Yes, 90% of the bikes we sell have carbon components. It's kind of stupid to think that they wouldn't. Carbon is everywhere on bikes these days, and for good reason too. Even low-end road and mountain bikes are coming with carbon components, from forks to handlebars to seat posts.
Dude @seraph stop being stubborn dude. Most people still use aluminum components. They are more affordable and people trust them more still. The only friends that use carbon on their rigs are my friends in cali and they all ride mojo hd's with carbon components cause they have money and most of their trails don't require more than a 6 inch all mountain rig. Here in Utah, we have a host of gnarly DH shuttle runs and most people are on aluminum. Not saying carbon is worse, just less trusted. Which could in no way lead to an estimate of 90% for carbon componentry.
Does your bike shop have a website? EVERY SINGLE bike shop that I've been into has had more aluminum models (hardrock, rockhopper, mamba, etc) than carbon models. So I don't quite see how it's stupid to think that a bike shop doesn't sell "90%" carbon fiber bikes. And I'd like to know what you count as "low end" mountain bikes that come kitted with carbon fiber components. I'm just saying that in your area, it's possible that 9/10 people run carbon components. Judging from the bikes on your page (I'd be happy with any of them btw) quite a few have carbon on them, they probably support that 90% figure. It's just that across america, there's no way that 9/10 mountain and road bikers have carbon components. Even in the CAT1 eastern states cup dh I don't believe that 9/10 people run carbon. Most people are sponsored by smaller companies, leading to them using aluminum bars, stems, wheels instead.
well Seraph that must be one of your dumbest comment so far this year...you try so hard dude...most pro road cyclists are still using and will ALWAYS use full alloy cockpits,,,why ???...it's lighter and stronger and in case of a crash they can get right back on their bike without having to worry about the bars or stem collapsing in the next few miles...don't take my word for it, the 2013 season is just about to start and look what all the top pros are riding...no need to reply, you're the only one kidding yourself here...
I would like to add there was plenty of warning before these rims failed, a crack was noticed on the rims and they continued to ride them, the same would happen on an alloy rim. This rim was also i prototype rim 30g lighter then there standard rim, this is the FIRST warranty claimed on there carbon rims and they weren't even production rims! If the cost wasnt so high i would run these myself, also this is the FIRST carbon wheel iv seen destroyed, you will find plenty alloy rims merked on Pinkbike, hence the turn "taco" being a thing.
Actually, I flat spotted a Sun MTX 33 that had a crack at each end of the flat spot, and it still made it another 2 months before I finally bought another rim to replace it. It never broke. This is not the first warranty Enve rim, I ride with guys that have busted several of them.
the ones that fails are the cheaper ones that has a inner and thin aluminium bar in the inside and not enough carbon on the outside the ones that are from a good brand shouldnt fail and not even those are saved remember Fontana seat tube on the london olympics (www.cyclingnews.com/news/fontanas-bronze-olympic-medal-feels-like-a-gold)
@bradwalton: don't hate on us here in California. Yep, we got money and cush jobs and trails, and that's why we frigging invented mountain bikes for you people.
That said, I do spend my cush paycheck on custom aluminum from Ventana and Nicolai. And aluminum rims. Because $3K for something that breaks is completely crazy even when you can afford it (like I do, but do not tell my wife...)
Seraph, Its pointless trying to present reality to these guys. They live in their small world, and don't realize others have greatly differing experiences from them. I think it would be hard to go into any bike shop and find 10% of bikes that do not have carbon components (excepting the budget models- I am referring to the ready to ride models.)
Whoa. Looks like there's some big carbon fans out there. Either that or you have stock holdings in composite companies and fear sales will fall due to someone's opinions on Pink Bike. Do what you will but I'll stick to aluminum components. Sure carbon is strong, but as soon as the slightest thing happens to it, it's all over. The crack that first showed up on the rim very likely would have gone unnoticed until the rim failed like it did. Especially if you're doing laps at whistler. How often to you look over your rims when banging out 20 laps in a day? Hence the increased risk of catastrophic failure.
Let's remember this whole conversation started based on DH specific rims so bringing road and cycle-cross into the mix isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. My cell phone has a carbon back and that seems to work just fine, but it isn't relevant to the conversation.
@Willie1 "bike lookalikes" for under 2,000. This is a massive reason why biking, as a sport, sucks. Most people regard any bike found for under 2k complete crap. Of course you can find plenty of run-of-the-mill spesh statuses and the like for 2k which I'm pretty sure are "ready to ride". Is that a "bike lookalike" because it doesn't come spec with enve wheels, carbon cockpit, and a fox 40? Plenty of great bikes come in at under 2k, and plenty of people riding them win in the race against the person who rides on a 5k+ carbon bike.
I own several bikes - from $500 total, to $3K for frame and shock alone for my current Nicolai - and I did not add up all the kit on it. They are all perfectly fine mountain bikes that do its job very well.
Dismissing the bread and butter range as "lookalike" is utterly and indefensibly silly. Reeks of a trailhead poseur.
Bikes in $1.5K to $2.5K are the best value. Something like SLX level bits, Reba RL level fork, mid level hydros.. And they do not come with carbon bling. It is unnecessary. Say, Anthem X 29er 2 - is it a lookalike? Or Kona Tanuki? Or Jamis Nemesis? Or Spesh Camber 29? Bollocks. They all ride just fine.
Interesting thoughts. I must be a poseur because I can afford better equipment than you? I personally like good wheels, and XO drivetrains. I guess you have to be broke to be a good rider?
No, certainly not a poseur. I obviously ride with people who shred much harder than I, on much better bikes. However, you certainly are elitist to believe that any bike under two grand is a POS. We all have to start somewhere.
Did you buy the wheel from an authorized dealer? Or Ebay? Just saying some places and black market companies are getting good at making knock-offs...
I'm with @Seraph on carbon being pretty darn strong. I ride a a '11 Trek Top Fuel 9.9 (Use Bontrager RL wheelset for everyday use and XXX for race use) and that has never failed me yet, I have an Off-Road back ground so i push the bike to its limits with high-speed jumps and drop offs as much as 3'. I've even had to bail once and the bike went tumbling down a rocky cliff, No real damage done to the bike only a few scratched here and there. On a side note: I have Treks' Red Shield Warranty so I am A OKAY throwing the bike around since everything is covered minus the tires, tubes, grips, brake pads. And I've had nothing replaced except for the chain, and soon the cassette and crank. And even had the Fork and Shock serviced.