Posted by
mikelevy
Jul 24, 2012

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Where do you see the 650B wheel size in five years?

650B seems to have found quite a bit of traction, with many manufacturers working on platforms for the coming year that utilize the in between wheel size. Interestingly, many riders eagerly awaiting the upcoming 'tweener bikes have yet to actually put time on one, while many more swear that it is simply marketing gurus pulling strings. Who says 26'' wheels, which were just a default size during the mountain bike's inception, are best for the job? Are the downsides to 29ers just too much to ignore? That said, is 650B going to fade away or become the go-to wheel in the future?

99 Comments

  • + 71
flag carletonman (Jul 27, 2012 at 22:16)
 I suspect as the industry progresses, we'll see a breakdown of bikes like this:

26" Wheels - DH/FR/DJ/Street bikes. Lets face it, DH/FR bikes will need the strongest wheels possible, and the maneuverability that comes with a smaller wheel size. Anything bigger is usually too weak to withstand the pounding meted out by DH riding.

650B Wheels - Long-travel Trail/All-Mtn. 650B is the best compromise between 26 and 29er wheel sizes. It'll be adapted by people that want to spend all day climbing hills in the Chilcotins, and for people who live in places that 29" wheels are at a disadvantage (I'm thinking of the Shore, Whisgnar, and other steep, techy areas that require maneuverability over rolling momentum).

29" Wheels - Race/XC/Short-travel Trail/Hard Tails. 29ers make sense on a hard tail platform, end of story. Build it out of steel, with slack angles, and it will go over anything. As well, people that are racing XC, or ripping on trails where you don't need a ton of suspension will derive a ton of benefit from the bigger wheelset.
  • + 3
flag Captain1ndustry (Jul 30, 2012 at 16:15)
 I completely agree with this
  • + 3
flag xxGxx (Aug 1, 2012 at 21:26)
 I totally agree!
  • + 2
flag nmdirt (Aug 5, 2012 at 14:17)
 Yup thats the way I'm seeing it i agree 100%
  • + 3
flag subluxation (Aug 9, 2012 at 8:29)
 Nail on the head
  • - 10
flag rlucky82 (Aug 11, 2012 at 8:52) (Below Threshold) show comment
 um, it is already this way...
  • + 4
flag sngltrkmnd (Aug 15, 2012 at 10:12)
 I fully support this. I tried out a 29er for a trail riding weekend and thought it was hokey. I hear one more "oh but it rolls over stuff easier" comment and I am going to come unglued. I don't ride off road for shit to be easier. I'm not an endurance geek - I like using the terrain, not avoiding it.
  • + 1
flag Reignonme (Aug 22, 2012 at 20:28)
 That's classic! We get that here in Moab all the time. Why would I want it to be easier??? We're constantly looking for MORE technical terrain. It's the classic fire road leg shaver busting up your back that can keep the 29er. It works for them just fine.
  • + 1
flag austom (Aug 28, 2012 at 18:35)
 The "Wheel Wars" article has helped me to make up my mind on the issue: bicyclingaustralia.com.au/2012/wheel-wars
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  • + 50
flag benko (Jul 25, 2012 at 18:01)
 there should be a "what the hell is that" option
  • - 2
flag Robnickels (Jul 28, 2012 at 16:13)
 Hahaha, totally agree. Not a clue..
  • - 11
flag Triggerman (Aug 1, 2012 at 3:18) (Below Threshold) show comment
 there should be What the fuck means 650b.
  • + 6
flag zalgrath (Aug 8, 2012 at 11:25)
 So is the 650b a 27.5 wheel size? So the break down of wheel size goes like this. 8", 12", 14", 18", 20", 24", 26", 27", 700c, 27.5" aka 650b, and 29er. WTF people do we really need another size? and i'm sure I missed a size too. I want to see a 32" and 44" for when we want to ride off the trail and climb over trees and rock crawl! lmao
  • + 0
flag HairyPotter (Aug 20, 2012 at 18:04)
 yep you forgot 10", 12.5", 16", 22", schwinn 24", schwinn 26", 26"x1 3/8", 32" which walmart just started selling, 36", and I think possibly there's a 650c.... So yeah I'd say we have enough already.
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  • + 26
flag badbadleroybrown (Jul 28, 2012 at 20:14)
 I'm holding out for 26.75" wheels...
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  • + 19
flag jaketinnelly (Jul 25, 2012 at 6:19)
 These polls are awesome! Keep them going!
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  • + 11
flag jimi2crank (Jul 25, 2012 at 11:11)
 I think it may have a place in XC and maybe even All Mountain but I think the disadvantages cancel out the advantages when it comes to DH bikes. In the end it is a change that is not necessary it's just engineers and marketing departments doing what they are paid to do. Change for the sake of change to justify their employment, create hype & increase sales.
  • + 0
flag llarrggee (Jul 30, 2012 at 3:36)
 I totally agree. Change for the sake. There is always a new standard for something. Head set size, tapered steerer tube, rear axle width, bolt through size, chain guide tabs, crank bolt 5 or 4 arm the list goes on. They just do it and hope the other companies copy. Normally they don't and create their own new standard just to prove that their standard is better. I have been mountain biking for years and have seen it all before. It is good in a way but you have to be very careful and do your research when buying new kit to make sure its compatible with your existing parts.
  • + 3
flag hankbrowne (Jul 31, 2012 at 9:37)
 and win the overall World Cup XC.... but its just hype right?
  • + 0
flag Reignonme (Aug 22, 2012 at 20:30)
 Yes, he did win the World Cup on 650b... key words World Cup XC. So the theory would be 650b would replace 29.
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  • + 9
flag garrss (Jul 25, 2012 at 6:48)
 you won't take my money freaking companies!!!!
  • + 4
flag OS141121 (Jul 26, 2012 at 14:11)
 But they already have... Frown
  • - 4
flag NoSkidMarks (Aug 3, 2012 at 0:13) (Below Threshold) show comment
 29 was the scam. 27.5 is more logical, but didn't need new bikes or forks in a lot of cases.
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  • + 4
flag hawskill (Jul 26, 2012 at 15:44)
 I have been running 650b's for the entire xc season this year, the greatly out maneuver 29" wheels and roll much better then the 26in wheels. On all mountain rides in my local area the 26" guys have way better low speed handling, and the 29ers drop me on the flat smooth. but they have been bringing me top 5 finishes and I firmly support them. As far as usage I think out of all the racers im the only one racing one.
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  • + 6
flag Benji-man (Jul 25, 2012 at 17:25)
 Can't see myself riding a 29" Jump Bike anytime soon.. and I don't think a 650 will get my wallet out for that purpose either
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  • + 3
flag rileysa (Jul 25, 2012 at 17:39)
 my 29s and my 26 inch wheeled bikes both serve different purposes and do their respective jobs well, better than the other. 650b seems to be the unnecessary. I have no need for another wheel size because I don't have a good use for it.
  • - 12
flag wuzupjosh (Jul 27, 2012 at 16:33) (Below Threshold) show comment
 u dont count your rich and have 2 bike for the same trails
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  • + 6
flag russianredneck (Jul 26, 2012 at 13:45)
 26" has been working perfect for years and will continue to do so, 650B is just something else for the hipsters of mtb.
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  • + 5
flag fruity (Jul 25, 2012 at 7:35)
 cant afford to keep buying new wheels, so will carry on with what i already have. 26inch seems to wok fine for me.
  • - 12
flag smicky (Jul 25, 2012 at 16:13) (Below Threshold) show comment
 They WOK fine for me to
  • + 3
flag Joseph-Kony (Jul 26, 2012 at 7:47)
 niet mokken, lekker wokken.
  • + 17
flag randybadger (Jul 31, 2012 at 9:42)
 If you are going to play grammar police at least don't arse it up yourself "they WOK fine for me TOO"
Smile
  • + 3
flag OS141121 (Jul 31, 2012 at 10:25)
 @randybadger- You're a HERO
  • - 3
flag randybadger (Jul 31, 2012 at 10:45)
 LOL
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  • + 2
flag andrewgrant (Jul 25, 2012 at 15:53)
 It's definitely not a scam...and 650B's have been around longer than some people realize...I think Jamis had a 650B AM bike out around 2006. Who knows, 29'ers are starting to take off on the World Cup XC circuit and a few years ago a lot of people were skeptical. To me, 650 seems like one of those things that a handful of people will buy into but the majority will stick to the wheel size that's got them to the bottom of the hill since they've started riding
  • + 1
flag Reignonme (Aug 22, 2012 at 20:32)
 World Cup XC was just won on a 650b.
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  • + 1
flag vr6ix (Jul 31, 2012 at 15:54)
 I love all the hype over 29-ers, 650B, pennyfarthings, etc...

It means I can score some sweeeeet deals on "old, outdated" wheelsets. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a nice build of high-end hubs, butted spokes, brass nipples and solid rims - it's fabulous that you're selling them for cheap just to jump on the big-wheel bandwagon! So, I rebuild those King hubs, true the rim, and it's just like new? Kick Ass!!!

I'm holding out for 32"-ers myself...
  • + 0
flag HairyPotter (Aug 20, 2012 at 18:08)
 The wait is over!
forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/32inch-wheeled-bikes-now-walmart-794539.html
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  • + 4
flag scaliwag (Jul 25, 2012 at 5:20)
 You need another option: I have no idea, I haven't ridden them.
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  • + 0
flag aljoburr (Aug 1, 2012 at 11:07)
 How about a 29er full Sus with a sealed drive, since cant buy one so I am currently building one out of Carbon fibre.
It is funny how people get real dumb when it comes to wheel size!!!!
how much difference does it make, well it will cost a fair bit too find out. It would be nice to have different wheels to fit one bike, but frame designs dont work that way, or do they?
  • + 0
flag NoSkidMarks (Aug 3, 2012 at 0:20)
 I think lots of XC teams will be running 27.5 26" compatible frames to change wheel sizes to suit different courses. But then BB height is compromised a touch.
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  • + 2
flag mxlemming (Jul 28, 2012 at 5:47)
 When I can buy a Minion DHF supertacky, a specialized Butcher/clutch, a Bonty G4, in 650B, maybe. Until then, No. Forget it.
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  • + 0
flag randybadger (Jul 31, 2012 at 10:07)
 Im happy to keep an open mind on a new wheel size but personally i find all these sizes a bit of a chore. I buy a lot second hand an make a few quid swapping bits and building the odd bike and selling them on.
It keeps me in new bikes and fills my passion for buying and selling.
What with 1"1/8 1"1/4 1"1/2. 135mm 142mm 150mm x 9mm 10mm or 12mm with fronts in 9mm 15mm 20mm and lets not forget speshes 25mm.
The bottom brackets in 68mm 73mm 83mm
And shocks in 165 180 200 220 240 (i know im not exact on that)
Point is building a bike used to be pretty standard, now its pretty tricky if you dont know your stuff.
Anyone bought a frame then realized they need a new rear hub crank and bottom bracket.
Lets add a new set of wheels and tyres to that Frown
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag MikeGravelle (Aug 20, 2012 at 19:54)
 Don't forget, this is bicycle enginering at its best right now. It took 29ers years to be accepted in BC. I was converted last fall after spending 3 days straight on an Anthem 29er. It took that 3rd day to convince me and I'm not looking back. I did have to give up something to gain elsewhere but honestly I'm only 2 seconds on the downhill behind my buddies this year instead of being equal. Although I'm many minutes ahead when getting to the downhill and way less tired. I put it to the test when I spent a week on the sight (26"wheel) this week and it took me way longer to get used to little wheels than it did big wheels.
Two thumbs up for 650b. Norco so far has done it best.
P.S. Remember the recent evolution of the fat skis? Did we ever hate skis when they were 100mm under foot. That is because the designs were terrible and not forgiving enough for many skiers if any other than the ones who didn't turn and had big balls. Now I won't ski anything under 108, typically 115mm. I still see guys out there skiing skinny skis and good on them if thats what they like, good luck buying them though.
All you 26er lovers, don't worry, they are not going away. But you can enjoy.
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag cypher74 (Aug 23, 2012 at 13:42)
 might have been mentioned before but where is the choice;

"i dont really care what wheel size i ride. its good to have the choice but most of the debate is being fueled by mags and websites that cant find anything else to fill their columns with. True bikers will ride anything"
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  • + 0
flag typx (Aug 28, 2012 at 16:19)
 I have now ridden both XC trails and put a full day in at silverstar on a 650B Norco Range 1. And I will be buying one. The wheel size makes a huge difference on the XC side of things, keeping pedaling very efficient while maintaining the feel of a FR bike when ripping. When the bike is pointed downwards it kills. I stomped Pro Star and Walk The Line on this bike without a single problem. I won't pretend that the Talas, the shock, and the ART suspension don't have a lot to do with what makes this bike awesome. But the wheel size has proven its worth to me.
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  • + 0
flag bike4christ (Aug 15, 2012 at 11:42)
 650;s were/are extremely popular choice for commuter/fixie bikes. When I lived in NY, practically every other fixie or commuter I saw had deep dished 650 road wheels on them. I agree with carltonman that the 650 size will become more popular with with the longer travel, all mountain type trail bikes.
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  • + 0
flag Csight (Jul 25, 2012 at 18:51)
 seriously, don't even know what a 650b wheel is...

whats wrong with the current 24" / 26" or even 29" options?

don't know why, reminds me of the old people around here who buy full carbon bikes...

they expect money to buy them skill... which is always a laugh
  • + 1
flag wuzupjosh (Jul 27, 2012 at 16:30)
 its 27.5 inches
  • + 1
flag hankbrowne (Jul 31, 2012 at 9:40)
 how are those 24" wheels working for you?
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  • + 0
flag foghorn1 (Aug 4, 2012 at 5:58)
 There's no denying that bigger wheel will roll over roots and rocks better. Why would I want to take the challenge out of riding? If I didn't want a technical challenge, I'd ride road. I'll stay with 26 until I'm too old to get it up (the front wheel that is). Short chainstays rule!
  • + 3
flag alphakilo42 (Aug 18, 2012 at 15:37)
 How would riding a 29er take the challenge out of riding technical trails? If a bike product makes something easier then you progress on to something harder. Why ride with suspension or multiple gears or with big nobby tires if all it does is make riding to easy? Have you ever tried to ride a 20" bmx down a rough trail? not so easy
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  • + 0
flag ncc1701 (Jul 25, 2012 at 13:39)
 It's not a "scam", a 650b wheel is a 650b wheel, and while a larger wheel will roll over rough ground easier I can't see how it could be lighter, stronger or more efficient than a smaller wheel of a similar build especially with the same spoke count. Screw it, my next bike will run 24s!
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  • + 1
flag machuqueiro (Aug 11, 2012 at 9:49)
 the future is:
29 on the front to eat all the rocks and roots and give stability
26 or 27,5 (650B) on the back for fast and nimble handling.
just take a look at off-road motorcycles
  • + 0
flag miff (Aug 16, 2012 at 15:25)
 You can't even begin to use that as a comparison. Motorbikes and MTB's have very little in common other than having 2 wheels.
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  • + 2
flag yxbix (Jul 25, 2012 at 2:46)
 personally, I am looking forward to a chance to try them. Even more, than 29''.
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  • - 1
flag whafe Plus (Jul 26, 2012 at 23:07)
 Am sure 650B goes well, however more than ever think this new size is the one companies are pushing for, more so so as they can go back somehow to having only to build frames for one size... The tooling costs etc will be screwing them... There is a place for all sizes am sure... However it amazes me how a pathetic magazine like Mountain Bike Action now think 650B is the ducks nutz..... etc etc etc... They give an opinion exactly what the advertisers want... But I already know that, hence not buying it... The old flick through at the mag shop Each to there own...
  • + 1
flag wuzupjosh (Jul 27, 2012 at 16:30)
 yes but they are not trying to sell u a whole new bike for example you can buy new dropouts on the intense carbine i dont ride xc so im not gonna buy these but they acctually work better for some people yes they want your money they also want u to have a better ride id like to see if dh will start using it
[Reply]
  • + 0
flag amers17 (Jul 28, 2012 at 17:15)
 24" is the way to go but i still like 26" but anything bigger is unnesecery and pointless why have a wheel thats 27.5" when you could have a 29er or 26" its like manufactuars making a 25" wheel its just not neeeded
  • + 0
flag NoSkidMarks (Aug 3, 2012 at 0:21)
 But it is needed. and good.
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  • + 0
flag Snfoilhat (Jul 24, 2012 at 23:17)
 You design, manufacture, and sell quality frames and forks for which light, strong wheels can be built and when I need a new bike maybe it'll be yours I buy. Could not care less about small changes in diameter.
  • + 0
flag LindLTaylor (Jul 26, 2012 at 15:12)
 "Small" changes affect the way the bike handles more than you would imagine. Take, for instance, a bike with 15.3" chainstays and a bike with 15.8" chainstays. There's potentially a mountain of difference in how they handle, and that "little" half inch contributes to that change. It could be the difference between loving your bike and hating it, or cleaning your ride and cleaning your clock. The same goes almost exponentially for wheels.

I haven't personally tried it. Would like to, just to see if it's worth the time and if it performs better for my kind of riding, but until my local bike shops start renting them out, I'm going to have to pass on the koolaid.
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  • + 1
flag bpotstra (Aug 29, 2012 at 6:28)
 My thoughts can be summed up like this:

"Who the f*ck cares?!?"

Just ride your damn bikes people.
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  • + 0
flag bmxerjosh1 (Aug 9, 2012 at 21:10)
 I think smaller wheels would be nice at times. Like a 24" pumptrack bike. Not a BMX curser either. But a MTB, with 24" wheels. Just something else for you guys to ponder.
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  • + 1
flag PedalShopLLC Plus (Aug 28, 2012 at 17:24)
 just an old French size brought back to life --- nothing new. they're just trying to re-invent the wheel
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  • + 0
flag dinger (Aug 26, 2012 at 19:54)
 Its all about how the sport evolves. It will probably be a trend for now, but we never know what door it could possibly open for the future.
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  • + 0
flag twowheels2011 (Jul 30, 2012 at 11:17)
 26" will stay because of shorter riders. 29" will stay because of cross country. whether or not 650b survives depends on how usefully it proves 2 b.
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  • + 0
flag AnDyJMTB (Aug 2, 2012 at 15:16)
 Whoever voted for the "26'' wheels are going the way of the dodo." rides a scooter.
Why would 26in wheels ever really become extinct?
[Reply]
  • - 2
flag sumskillz (Jul 27, 2012 at 12:41)
 29's just can't do tight switchback climbs. 650B is often doable but tougher than 26. I don't see them going away, so I guess the trails will be changed over the coming years instead. Take out some grade in the corners and widen the corners and the big wheels will be just fine.
  • + 3
flag NoSkidMarks (Aug 3, 2012 at 0:18)
 I hate how all the tracks are becoming smooth and boring thanks to the 29er invention. Hopefully 650b will put an end to this sterilization of tracks. 29ers bring the roadies to the dirt, I loathe it for that reason as well as others. 29er are commuter wheels. The dirt is not for commuting. It's for fun. Bring back the soul, the essence. Keep it technical and challenging.
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  • - 3
flag 3lfd3wd (Jul 30, 2012 at 12:16)
 My thoughts on the matter are this: it hasn't been conclusively proven that 29ers are better than 26in wheeled bikes yet, at least not for all applications, so, assuming that, why the hell is there a 'compromise' standard being developed? Why not TRY 30in wheels? Do some actual scientific investigation into matters, find out what genuine works best in which environments, and how they ride. Then get back to me on the 'perfect' wheel size. Don't sample 2 sizes and decide we need a third to hit the sweet spot, that's clearly a 'best of both worlds' marketing spin.
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  • + 2
flag MXRacer58 (Jul 27, 2012 at 17:30)
 27" coming in 2013
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  • + 1
flag Maveri20 (Aug 29, 2012 at 13:08)
 short people hate 29ers because the height
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  • + 0
flag ja81 (Aug 22, 2012 at 10:31)
 Has anybody seen this video before? 36er going up steps lol.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYt6IqaHk_Q
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  • + 0
flag PHeller (Jul 26, 2012 at 19:41)
 650b, the final frontier. After that, we've got no more (sensible) wheel sizes to fight about.
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  • + 0
flag ruffride (Aug 23, 2012 at 11:35)
 It's like tits you will try a few but in the end you'll make do with the set your stuck with
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  • + 1
flag stubb (Jul 31, 2012 at 3:34)
 20" and 26" will do me in this life thanks
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  • + 0
flag em-j (Aug 21, 2012 at 17:31)
 The more I learn about mountain bikes, the more I miss my 20". Too many numberzzz Eek
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  • + 0
flag stinkweasle (Aug 4, 2012 at 12:44)
 deos any one know how i can do component testing ????
  • + 0
flag Joseph-Kony (Aug 14, 2012 at 14:20)
 dunno, buy them?
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  • + 0
flag jamesxciv (Aug 5, 2012 at 13:41)
 I don't even know how big 650B is....
  • + 1
flag cypher74 (Aug 23, 2012 at 13:44)
 very roughly 27.5" or there abouts
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  • + 0
flag wuzupjosh (Jul 27, 2012 at 16:22)
 i wonder if theyll use these on dh bikes?
  • + 0
flag danielsilva (Jul 28, 2012 at 16:43)
 KHS will debut their 650b downhill bike next year/season, i believe their team riders will at least have the chance to ride with them.
  • + 1
flag wakaba (Jul 30, 2012 at 8:20)
 KHS only does taiwanese catalog frames. Their frames are engineered and massproduced by Astro of Traiwan in Vietnam. 30$ for a hardtail-, 180$ for a fullsuspensionframe. KHS decideds on a frame, specs the parts, choose the paintscheme and design the stickers. Half a year latter Astro drops a container full of KHS scripted cardboard boxes in L.A port...

In terms of revenues:

Frame: KHS Dh.,180$ (this frame is marketed under many different brandnames)
Drivertrain: Sram, 80$
Complete Wheels: Alex, 30$
Tires: Kenda, 10$
Fork: Sram 60$
Handlebar: Noname 10$
Stem: Noname 2$
Reardamper: Sram 50$

Astro will assemble and box the "KHS", KHS will buy 1000 for 600$ each and sell to a dealer for 1500$. Dealermarkup will be 30-60% which explains the catalog pricing of every "manufacturer" since everybody buys chinese at roughly the same prices.

The pricing of the parts are not correct but within 10-15%. As you notice Sram parts are rather expensive - they are king of the game.

So to be correct - Astro will debut another revenuestream named 650b. Since chinese corps. are doing the engineering - it most of the time does not really makes sense in engineering terms - chinese crap - but does so in marketingterms - which they are really good at. Most "western" corps. are just a frontend to a chinese operation called the " bicycle parts complex". Atherton et al are the clowns in the roadshow. The oh so important marketeers in those frontends only ever windowdress.
  • + 2
flag neuway (Jul 30, 2012 at 14:09)
 You seem to be very up the bicycle industry. Please give us more of your un-educated information.
  • + 1
flag randybadger (Jul 31, 2012 at 9:56)
 Dont astro make frames for a number of respected cycle companies?
Why are you refering to taiwan as chinese? Isn't some of the best hydroformed tubing manufactured in taiwan.
Don't Most large cycle manufacturers utilize efficient eastern companies to manufacture?
Merida, astro, whoever? They all make good product dont they?
Is it a crime for businesses to make money?
  • + 1
flag randybadger (Jul 31, 2012 at 10:18)
 That said my mate bought a khs cursor racer back when we were kids he lived in hong kong and it cost him £30? It was very basic
  • + 1
flag wakaba (Aug 1, 2012 at 2:16)
 @randy:
Because only the Politbureau in Bejing and conservative politicians in Taiwan gain something in dividing Taiwan and the PRC. Taiwan (former Formosa) is a very recent Kuomintan invention and a handy tool for american and chinese interests. Today PRC/T are economically interwoven.

Read this, renaming has been done many times before:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China

As of KHS, Merida etc. - they dont make good products, they resell badged Astroframes.

Hydro:
Hydroform is a method of making a distinction between lowerprice frames and more upscale. It is a styling method, in the right hands it can increase the quality of a frame. Aluminum is very malleable and hydroforming just adds a relatively simple and cheap step to making a frame look better. Most hydroformed frames are styling exercises. Very few exploit the benefits of hf. Voltage is one. All said - a decently engineered steel frame - beats an alloyframe anytime.

Crime, business, money:
No, but it is a crime to be an uninformed consumer - and your sentence is an empty wallet and substandard goods in your garage ;-)
  • - 2
flag randybadger (Aug 2, 2012 at 10:40)
 I think I will stay happy with my capitalist/communist substandard, overly styled pointlessly designed, criminal massproduced Nukeproof Scalp.
I am almost certain merida are a manufacturer in thier own right producing for many manufacturers I believe they created an exact template of raleighs nottingham factroy when they shifted some of thier production to the east.
Not sure I would class aluminium as malleable its fairly brittle
  • + 1
flag deadlymailman (Aug 2, 2012 at 11:02)
 I think he's actually right. I work in a shop and sell KHS, never heard about this before. Took a look at astro's site, a lot of the stuff looks familiar.

www.astroeng.com.tw/products.asp

Mass production by astro is possibly true for lower end models, but I dont think its the same in the higher end.
  • + 0
flag randybadger (Aug 3, 2012 at 11:43)
 There is no doubt that astro and other manufacturers make stock frames which companies then repackage. But there is a world of difference between a stock item and one that has been made to a specific design.
It's happened for years. If as a company you have designed a fancy new frame you intend to have manufactured where do you go? A successful frame manufacturer of course.
  • + 0
flag randybadger (Aug 3, 2012 at 11:48)
 Some of the freeride models looked a lot like the old iron horse Sunday I think.
  • + 0
flag IHmachine (Aug 22, 2012 at 1:09)
 www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f19/sexy-tw-catalog-bike-makes-another-appearance-237701

just put your stickers on this high end IH sunday replica and it's yours!
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  • + 0
flag justridetrails (Aug 8, 2012 at 11:19)
 im going too make rims out of wood yea that will work
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  • + 0
flag Jacob01 (Aug 26, 2012 at 14:20)
 really, 500 people think 26in wheels are going to stop?
[Reply]
  • - 1
flag rlucky82 (Aug 11, 2012 at 8:49)
 650b wheels are here! keep forcing them down my throat.
[Reply]
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