Are trails becoming too manicured?

 Most all trails are manicured on the east coast, bush whacking on a bike is no fun. Even if the trail has rocks and roots they are usually not naturally occurring how they are, rocks are dug up moved around and smoothed around with dirt. Trails are usually built for mountain bikes to be rideable but still a challenge, which confuses me as to why people want 29rs and 650bs. You could accomplish the same thing on a 26 by just building the trail smoother. You make it a challenge for a 26" then just cheat with a 29". Now everyone will go to 650b and 29 and we will just add bigger obsticles to balance it out again.

 Some days I want to ride loose shit, other days I want to ride jump lines. Need both.

 Timberline WV Bike Park has NO MACHINE BUILT TRAILS! All hand built. Gravity BMX on a DH or Free ride bike is overkill. A machine is not required to build flow or "groomed" trails. The big problem is that Gravity MTB is being dumbed down to a low level so beds can be filled, food sold, and bikes rented.
DH or Free Ride rigs are the human powered cousin of a Dirt Bike. Woods riding on a Dirt Bike is the model I use to build our park. To me that is the soul and origin of all off road- on a bicycle or a dirt bike.

 Valid points. This is a multifaceted issue that is so specific to each riding area. Land managers, other user groups (dirt bike, hikers, atv, etc), terrain, trail traffic, riding styles all shape trails for better or worse. Sometimes change has to happen, builders can never please or appeal to all riding styles, especially in regards to old trails turned new. There is a significant difference when looking at new trails, when this may not apply as riders has no concept of "what once was". I wouldn't say flow is limited to berms or manicured trails, its in most properly designed or well built trails, if you know your lines. A trail can definitely be built with more "natural" features, address all of the above issues, and still have a shit load of flow, it just takes a really talented, experienced builder to accomplish this.

 Learn to ride the mountain, it takes a lot of the adventure out of riding when the trails look like bermy dirt roads. God forbid you should have to actually pedal or lift your wheel over a root or rock, or OMG shift your weight to maintain traction. Luckily I live in an area with tons of backcountry trails, after 20 years I still have to walk some stuff that others can ride and that's OK. I feel sorry for you guys that have to ride mountain bike parks or trail systems built for the modern urban wuss. Participation trophies anyone.

 Pretty much all the trail centres here in the UK are smooth stuff, gets boring after a while but I think it's a liability issue, if a n00b biker injured themselves on a trail then they couldn't sue the FC for not repairing/ preparing the trails properly because they look like bowling alleys. they're fun and fast but I love my rocks and roots, and a bit of mud.

 I think if you want your trails a certain way you should pick up your tools and head to the trail! I would like to see a Poll to see how much time riders actually spend maintaining the trails they ride!

 Groomers are fun. Jumping and railing berms is great. I rode groomers all day today on my SS park bike in a t-shirt bike shorts and a helmet. No armor, no pads, just flyin' down the mtn in the breeze jumping away trying not to use the brakes. Those who need to use a dangerous activity to pump their 'danger factor' should look into wingsuit flying. If you want bike parks to succeed they need to attract riders of all levels, and you need to make trails that don't require a DH bike. Who really can afford $150 a day for a ticket and DH bike rental? Groom away IMO. Its just more relaxed and fun to ride them. Truly great riders will not ride the groomed stuff anyway, so no worries on the development of great riders, they tend to find themselves off the beaten trail naturally. Groomers are just another choice for the resort customer. Those whose manhood is threatened by them likely bought in to the sport for image anyway. Ride your bike and have fun on any of the trails. MIx it up. Take someone with you who has not ridden gravity trails and share a new experience with them on these type trails. You will feel good.

 I think the type of trails people build are determined by the location and what the land managers allow. We have had many issues in my neck of the woods with the state. They have finally realized that mtb riders are the only ones who actually maintain the trails, very few hikers ever do around here. I noticed if you keep it as natural as possible, you won't piss off as many people. Throwing in a few bypasses leading to a jump or rock drop is a good compromise. In any case, I know it's a lot of work to build a trail, so kudos to those who put the time in.

 Big fan of the super gnar stuff here but hitting jumps and slaying berms every now and then is always fun. I don't like when they smoothen out the rougher trails and neglect the supposedly smooth stuff though...

 The trails I used to ride in Oregon were unnaturally smooth, here in MT you have to ride like a man over loose rock gardens, roots and gnarly rock out-croppings. All the rock picking and manicuring ends up making the trails really wide. I got too used to the groomed trails, they were fun and fast but I will always prefer the tight single track over natural obstacles, with some nice cliffs and skinny drops. I see it like groomed vs. powder runs on a snowboard. This is one of the reasons why I like dirt biking more. You cover more trail in a day, at a consistent speed over entirely natural obstacles in remote locations. You also have the super technical uphill sections that are impossible to ride up on a mtb. I do 40-60 mile loops on average, and never see any hikers or mountain bikers. But, I still ride my mtb at my gnarly local bike park on the daily.

 Timberline WV Bike Park has NO MACHINE BUILT TRAILS! All hand built. Gravity BMX on a DH or Free ride bike is overkill. A machine is not required to build flow or "groomed" trails. The big problem is that Gravity MTB is being dumbed down to a low level so beds can be filled, food sold, and bikes rented.
DH or Free Ride rigs are the human powered cousin of a Dirt Bike. Woods riding on a Dirt Bike is the model I use to build our park. To me that is the soul and origin of all off road- on a bicycle or a dirt bike.

 Just saw the post and had to comment, as this is a very sore subject of mine.

Unfortunately, I have a fairly poor view of “Trail Maintenance” when it is actually applied to mean “Trail Manicuring”. I think that, if there exists a problem with a trail (erosion for example), then it should be addressed with Trail Maintenance, but I have an issue when no problems exist and it is decided that it needs “maintenance” (manicuring actually) just because it is difficult or doesn't flow right.

I have been in various areas where a trail was perfectly fine to ride (provided you were of a certain skill level), only to come back to this same area later to find that it has been manicured to make easier. In particular, there existed this very long rock garden section of one of my local trails that I had spent a significant amount of time working and working (better part of 3 weeks) until I was finally able to ride it flawlessly (I am not an expert rider by any means). As I would expect anyone else, I felt very accomplished because of my hard work. I wanted to use that section as a benchmark to test my skill level for the next year, but unfortunately it never happened, since this section ended up being “manicured” (turned into a stone walkway) before too long.

I feel that this is not a matter of easy, medium, or hard trails (as there is normally ample variety), but I feel as if this is more a matter of people not willing to admit that something is too difficult for them while also being too impatient to put some actual time into riding. I am not sure about everyone else, but I am perfectly willing to push or walk my bike down a section of trail that I am not comfortable riding… I actually like it, because it forces me to realize my weaknesses so that I can improve them in the future.

 Pink bike. Stop notifying me about who votes or comments on a poll... It's getting annoying now

 I realize that manicured trails are a great way to get beginners into the sport, which serves to grow the MTB community. More people means more support and resources for making new trails, and maintaining existing ones. But I think it's important for trail builders to remember that not all of us like to ride bike paths, and we seek out technical challenges and thrilling rides. If they remove challenging trails, riders leave and/or build their own and there are too many of us to stop.

IMBA has great guidelines on building trails that offer a variety of difficulty levels. They keep the experts entertained and challenged, but don't create a hazard or frustrations for beginners. I think this is a good approach to take, because in our niche group it's better to stick together to garner more influence. If we can do this, we'll get to see many more miles of trails and smiles in our future!

 That's the one thing I hated about Queenstown, so many of the trails are overly manicured and like riding a rollercoaster... only all the jumps are badly spaced and different speeds for no apparent reason

 Gotta love it man!! If you don't like manicured trails, why use a trail at all? Any trail whatsoever is considered manicured, just manicured to a particular level. So all this "I hate manicured trail" crap is just that... CRAP!! Go ride straight down an unaltered mountain if you want unaltered, untouched virgin routes and let's see how well your ego does getting splattered all over the hillside and getting thrown around like a pinball against the trees. These new tech bikes are over inflating the heads of their owners who think they are bigger and better then they are. Always somebody better to show you a thing a two, just remember that!!!

 Im okay with some trails being smooth and flowy. Makes them faster and much more fun! REMEMBER: Mountain biking is for everyone not just the badass, hardcore, don't-give-a-fick riders. Now trails that are in US National Forests should be more natural and un-pedicured. Ride on brothers/sisters.

 This is a huge can of worms!

There are a few guys on here telling the older guys to f*ck off back to where we came from that I don't agree with (naturally), everyone's entitled to their own opinion. We're not all of the 'When I was a young lad it was all more extreme' brigade, we’re of the when I was a lad there was no suspension and we were buffeted left, right and centre when we went out riding but it never put us off riding.

The sport has ballooned in a very short period of time. In the same space health and safety has also 'gone mad' as some would put it. The most popular places to ride need to weigh up the pro's and con's of what they offer to get maximum track fall, after all, all you spend when out and about on your bikes goes into their local economies. They also need the longevity of the trails, far more people are riding bikes these days. Although it's still possible sometimes, I would say that it's a long time since you could go out riding all day long and not see another soul out there.

 when we build stuff as soon as it's safe enough to hit over and over without injury but pushing our skill level then it's done if we kept on building making it perfect it would get boring and not worth it as soon as we get too comfortable with things we dig again to step it up

 Gotta have both of them, they're both sweet as but i can imagine only having one or the other would get a bit boring.

 I rode at Antur Stiniog down in Wales yesterday, it was pretty rough and rocky. Which was amazing, and then as it was getting a bit too rough it had like 3 or so tabletops in a row, all smooth section of trail, then over a little rise and down a rock garden into more rough. My arms were killing at the end of the day, but then again. It is Downhill trails and I am on an All Mountain bike after all. But yeah, I like a good mix, never too rough, never too much smooth stuff, because sometimes you get so used to the smooth the rough gives you a real surprise!

 Smooth trails are awesome, we need more of them to help welcome people to the sport. Rough trails are awesome too, we need more of those. Go build a trail, make it anyway you like. Don't take an existing trail and buff it out, by the time you're done you could have built a totally new trail.

 Is this geeky semantics talk regarding what exactly a groomed and manicured trail is and what exactly a "natural" trail is? Why do I get the impression that it's sort of like asking if you prefer a maintained trail, offering man-made challenges, or trail that's been eroded away and is raw, offering natural challenges?

Personally, I find a nice clean cut swath that is relatively clear of low hanging branches, brush (that would deposit ticks on you, knick up your limbs, and hide dangerous creatures or poison ivy/oak), braking bumps and ugly ruts, etc. with well packed soil is a beautiful sight. I like the look of armored trails too, and love seeing rocks naturally in the trail. I don't mind little cheater steps either, to help get up onto big rock formations and over logs, nor flattened out tops of deadfall, with grippy grooves cut into them, nor clean and smooth entries to drops and jumps.

Erosion, loose and beat up dirt, standing water, poop, sloppy amateur built features, sissy lines, etc. definitely aren't beautiful sights to me (at least the kind caused by human society). Even seeing certain other kinds of trail users, with little room to pass at cruising speed, such as those stopped to check out a line, those fixing flats and whatnot, those going in the opposite direction, those moving at a much slower pace, etc. can be detrimental to the experience.

I'd be amused if I see a rider place a medium sized rock back into the middle of a trail where they remember it was, after they noticed that it found a new home off to the side of the trail. Complaining about it is one thing, but actually making a trail rougher... wait, does that sort of blur the line between man-made challenge and natural challenge? In the end, I think there's more to complain about from what man did to the trails that wasn't done with any artistic intent (including just beating the trail up from heavy use), than the trails that have been overly "fixed" up.

 Gonna sit on the fence (as per) and say that I like a bit of both, my own trails are flowy as hell but there's also technical trails around here too. I ride what I feel like at the time.

 I must be lucky, there are no manicured trails aound here. Only hiking trails (at least what i ride) that are still either rocky and/or rooty, some of them very flowy at the same time (think jump enabling root/rock details), while some are complete flow without a builders help - i.e. they were walked and weathered into being that smooth.

 To be honest I prefer technical trails but I still love hitting a jump line every now and then. To me mountain biking is and should always be a mix of the two. That's what keeps it fun.

 Be honest, there is a and place for smooth and the technical trails... the same with 26's and 29rs as long as we are out enjoying the trails and our bikes that's all that counts folks.

 from the looks of it, it sure seems like they are ---- just watching video from random resorts posted here on pinkbike. l think if they were 100% slamma' bamma' ding-dong from top to bottom, people wouldn't frequent them as often simply because not everyone has deep pockets and can't afford to buy new products every time the hit a resort... a course like that is no doubt going to cause a lot of crashes. make it a little more tame, more people will ride it. l like the slamma-bamma riding but it does beat you up and it sure can mess up a bike when you crash.

 Some of my friends and I have started calling our trails Flow-Tech. A combination of fast flow style trails mixed with very technical sections. We have found even technical non-buffed out trails can be fun and fast. And just because a few corners might be smoothed out with a small berm does not mean the trail is ruined. A good trail in my opinion is a fast mix of both that is fun dry or wet.

 I often like having to manage a more random, eroded trail. I think these trails have a lot of character, and they are exciting to ride.

 I love mix of it, some parts have to be smoother because of speed, corners, jumps atc. But there is nothing better than loam with wet roots and rocks sections....

 If anybody goes to Poway, CA, look for downhill trails near Meadowbrook Middle School, and you will be crying for your manicured trails.

 Not much of the manicured stuff here in Australia. Mostly tech with plenty of rocks. Certainly aren't any A-Line style tracks here (would love one though!)

 Flow is not a description of a trail but how you ride it. I've seen A Line ridden without flow and Goats Gully with it.

 Are polls becoming over-saturated?

 Try riding in Nelson NZ, we have scores and scores of techy GNAR and are only just starting to cut berms

 Not in my area. I'd love to ride a super groomed trail (big berms, jumps etc).

 Just ride your bikes and worry less about what's underneath.....

 I love to ride my 8" bike over rocks and roots but I need to have some big steep smooth jump lines for my d.j. too.

 theres just one thing; i bike and a place to ride¡¡¡¡ any trial, any place

 Why is there no voting category for liking rough trails? They all want you to like manicured trails

 When your trails highest point is 37 feet above sea level it is hard to "mountain bike", so we go with the flow.

 got to attract more tourists

 too many XC riders on pinkbike... WHERE ARE MY ROOTS AND ROCKS!????????!?!?!?!

 The one and only ly reason why I LOVE BAD WILDBAD!

 My local trails at Triscombe Somerset are as wild as they come!!

 I don't even like my nails manicured. The rougher it is the better it rides.







Famous last shag words?

 feckin wakerplated trail centre crap yuk.... show me the gnaarrr.....

 I thought MTB was supposed to be challenging........that is all.