Cane Creek - Ask Us Anything

Oct 16, 2012 at 14:54
by Richard Cunningham
 

Thanks for all questions, that's all for now! The staff at Cane Creek are heading home

Pinkbike and Cane Creek partnered up to launch the first episode of 'Ask Us Anything' - a live question-and-answer session that links bike industry manufacturers to you so that you can get the story directly from the source. This is no limp-wrist link to some Joe Blow in Customer Service who agreed to skip lunch. Ask Us Anything offers a rare opportunity to communicate with the suspension tuner, product engineer and marketing hack who actually created the product or service that you are asking about. For one day only, everyone at Cane Creek will drop what they are doing to personally explain anything that relates to the products that they make.


Introducing the Cane Creek Cast

Cane Creek Staff 2012


How 'Ask Us Anything' Works
Type your question into the 'Comments' box at the bottom of this page and Cane Creek's staff will answer it directly below. Feel free to direct your question to a specific person. Every question and answer will be published for all to see, so you may want to scan previous comments to see if the information that you seek has already been posted.

Helpful tips:
• Try to stay on point. Ask one question at a time and follow your question with a brief context about the situation, so that the folks at Cane Creek can give you a specific reply. For example: if your question is about a headset fit-up issue, include the brand and model of the frame and also of the fork. If your question is about suspension tuning, then follow up with information about your bike, your riding style, your previous setup and your weight.

• Try to keep your questions to about 200 words or less

• Ask Us Anything is a service to PB readers who are seeking helpful information, not a forum to broadcast opinions or grievances. If you do have a negative issue that you want to ask about, no worries, just keep your complaint relevant and in the context of a question so that it can be addressed in a productive manner.

• Use the comment propping to upvote questions you care about, and downvote the bad.

Cane Creek hero

Who better to help you wade through the hundreds of headset combinations available, or answer your questions about dialing in the Double Barrel than the people who design, repair and sell them?



About Cane Creek:
Cane Creek is an employee-owned company of 35 people in Fletcher, North Carolina, who ride what we make. Our goal is to foster, develop, and provide innovative solutions that enhance the cycling experience and make them the very best that they can be. This reflects what is truly important to us as an organization. This could mean better performance, enhanced features, superior quality and durability, proprietary tools and programs that enhance the rider experience, or excellent customer service. At the end of the day, you can expect the best from us.


Everyday help at Cane Creek can be found here.
Must Read This Week

663 Comments

  • + 112
flag cork (Oct 17, 2012 at 7:59)
 Do you guys plan to ever produce a fork or fork cartridge based off of the Double Barrel damper? And could that technology even be applied to a fork?
  • + 8
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:04)
 I've always wondered if this would happen.
  • + 155
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:06)
 Yes. Our long-term strategy is to fill out our product line to include forks. It is our intent to incorporate Double Barrel technology in all of our suspension products.
  • + 49
flag cork (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:08)
 Wow, thanks for answering! That wasn't the answer that I was expecting, but the one I was hoping for. Looking forward to seeing it.
  • + 18
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:36)
 What is it that you would like to see in a fork from Cane Creek?
  • + 25
flag zudukai (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:46)
 i hope to see a nice 150mm or so freeride fork, any chance?
  • + 68
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:50)
 I'd love to see a Downhill fork from you guys.
  • + 65
flag cork (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:52)
 An air sprung trail fork with a 20mm thru-axle that offers the same adjustments as your rear shocks, please. No funny three-level damper adjustments that aren't required, no complicated travel adjustment feature, and a competitive weight. Damping in a closed cartridge (or sealed within the stanchion tube) so that the lowers can be dropped for a cleaning and fresh lube without having to jump into doing a damper service. Plenty of low-speed compression damping range.

Do you have functioning prototypes at this point, be it a full fork or a cartridge that is being tested in another brands chassis?
  • - 14
flag fedz (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:55) (Below Threshold) show comment
 A whole range of forks that competes with Fox, Rockshox etc at a price we can afford. When I say 'competes' what I mean is equal to or better than for less money
  • + 26
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:59)
 I would like to see both a 200mm coil full crown fork and an 170-180mm Enduro/Freeride coil fork.
  • - 3
flag BadgerPineMax (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:12)
 A downhill fork that compete's with the other top brands and comes in a variety of designs and colours.... And, if possible, cheaper then Fox or Rockshox
  • + 3
flag makripper (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:16)
 a coil downhil fork that doesn't have a ridiculous weight penalty.
  • + 1
flag Monx (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:17)
 Something for FR bikes, single crown 190mm fork. Sth like Travis 203 SC was, but with open oil bath and better damping.
  • + 10
flag Loony0 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:18)
 I would like to see a set of Cane Creek 200mm dual crown upside down forks... like the old school marzocchi shivers
  • + 8
flag mountainyj (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:24)
 I would love to see a downhill fork. Air and coil options.
  • + 15
flag groghunter (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:26)
 another vote here for inverted. double barrel USD would probably be the most amazing fork ever.
  • + 14
flag mtbrider71 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:26)
 A top of the line DH fork. Its a bit much for people to ask for it to be better and cheaper. That doesn't make any sense. I would just want to see it function better, the price will be what it is.
  • + 9
flag mp11 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:30)
 yeh a 150 or 160mm for the AM rig would be perfect to match the CCDBA when i get one . . .
  • + 3
flag bikin4life (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:48)
 200mm single crow fork like the old Manitou Travis... these were good times...
  • + 6
flag aelazenby (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:48)
 I second the 150 - 160mm AM fork and add in a vote for 650B
  • + 8
flag dr-salt (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:54)
 It might be a better start to just make cartridges for something like a 35 mil boxxer fork first
  • + 11
flag benuntu (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:15)
 A 34mm stanchion 150mm trail fork and a 36mm stanchion 160mm AM fork.
  • + 3
flag brotherluke (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:17)
 Short travel dirt jump fork, compression damping control to soften up for playing about on trails
  • + 7
flag seraph (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:57)
 I agree that a short travel dirt jump fork would be a great addition to the suspension market and a good move by Cane Creek if they were going to enter the fork game. However you'd have to make it affordable in order to outsell Rock Shox and Fox (whose DJ forks are overpriced in my opinion). In the process of making it affordable you'd have to limit the amount of technology that goes into it, thus all but eliminating the use of any proprietary internal suspension technology that you might want to implement (such as the Double Barrel technology), which would actually be fine because pretty much all DJ and street riders want is a 20mm axle, rebound and high speed compression adjustment.
  • + 8
flag g123 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:03)
 Yet another vote for an inverted dh slider. A solidly-built, well-damped USD fork would be amazing. And (incidentally) could be marketed to fill 26", 650b and 29" wheels if a travel limiter was incorporated.
  • + 12
flag jaydmf (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:03)
 I would love for CC in the short term to take the Lyrik chassis and make the damping match the DB/ DBair whether this uses a retrofit cartridge system or open system as it currently is im not fused. Later make their own fork in the same vein and offer it with a 1.5 steerer not just taper and 1.1/8 and with a full range of drop out options.

Final thing, please just make a reliable dropper and show everyone else how its done. total CC convert since getting my DB air
  • + 9
flag jamesdexter (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:50)
 an inverted DH fork!
  • + 3
flag philbert2000 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:02)
 A 200 mm coil sprung downhill fork with the same adjustments like the DB and in the same weightclass like a Boxxer R2C2 Smile. Please!
  • + 10
flag chumba17 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:13)
 -200mm downhill fork, air and coil, inverted only if logical, with settings that can allow you to get an actually linear curve if wanted
-170mm air sprung fork with travel adjust, A2C of a 160mm fork, 36mm stanchions
-150mm air sprung fork with travel adjust, 34mm stanchions, 29er availability
-a super light 100mm for the xc boys, 29er availability
+no tools needed adjustments
  • + 0
flag commanderagl (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:38)
 Multiple wheel size options.
adjustability
lockout/ increased compression mode +blowoff
Lightweight/stiff
Air sprung
  • - 2
flag fugrus (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:49)
 I feel like a good way to start a ridiculous question like that, Sam would be by spelling the product correctly. I mean, its not all that tricky is it..
  • + 3
flag Bikethrasher (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:07)
 A trail fork with 140mm- 160mm travel 15mm QR. Fixed travel or internally adjustable. The same adjustability as your shocks.
Fox and Rock Shox refuse to give us much in the way in adjustability, and keep shoving crap like CTD down our throats. That only work well on certain suspension types.

When can we expect a fork from you?
  • + 7
flag Snfoilhat (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:55)
 I think you know as well or better than us that a "full" fork line right now looks pretty daunting. The crazy degree of splitting that marketing has imposed on riding (DJ/4X ≠ XC ≠ trail ≠ AM ≠ enduro ≠ FR), plus three totally viable wheel diameters, plus legacy stuff (e.g. 9 mm QR) plus redundant stuff (e.g. 15QR vs. 20 thru -- the idea that these two are "optimized" for different riding is laughable--the wheelsets may be, the forks may be, but the axle, c'mon, pick one). Instead of trying, like Fox or Rockshox, to have a line of 30+ products and try to save $ by hiding common parts inside, let the retailers and end users enjoy the benefit of fewer SKUs by making a few forks that really are great for a breadth of riding. Something like the Fox 36 RC2 but aimed at the middle (enduro), but everyone knows it's tough enough for freeride, adjustable down to ~100 mm for DJs, light enough for racing any discipline but high-level XC, and BFD if it's not the lightest. You can't please everyone. You have a lot of cred right now from the double barrel, if you pay someone fast and famous to ride a decent fork (upside down would be great), people will believe the torsional issues are fixed and they will buy it.
  • + 2
flag taletotell (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:56)
 something to compete with the 36/ lyrik level, maybe with a tall enough crown to allow a 650b wheel
  • + 1
flag jas231 (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:46)
 something that is stiff light and responsive a fork that has a one pieced machined upper and steerer tube (xfusion) travel ranging from 4 to 8.5 inchess would be nice to see a whole line up with tapered steerers and straight .
  • + 0
flag jas231 (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:48)
 o and maybe some open bath type systems
  • + 1
flag devanish (Oct 17, 2012 at 19:25)
 Snfoilhat, thanks for adressing this, I could'nt agree more.15QR vs. 20 thru, has pissed me off since the day I first stumbled across it. Who ever introduced 15QR should be banned from designing bike parts. 20 thru made my DH rig rule and my XC bike more fun, no one has anything to gain from, or being a weenie!
  • - 2
flag samminett (Oct 17, 2012 at 21:47)
 where did my comment go?
  • + 2
flag Clarkeh (Oct 18, 2012 at 0:55)
 As much as I would like to scream 200mm DH fork...

For starting a new fork line, personally I think you should make a 120mm fork to begin with, more people ride XC then DH and it would be a good way to get some feedback, especially if (when) you can get a pro rider on it. You can work out the bugs, get some serious ride time on them and since XC is more popular, maybe even a market, then branch out into longer forks so you can keep finding and removing bugs and figure out how to keep the fork stiffness at longer travels (I don't even know if this is a thing you have to perfect, but RS and Fox keep going on about how their new model of fork is stiffer, so I assume it is.).

But I know nothing
  • + 2
flag bodomterror (Oct 18, 2012 at 10:49)
 I have to throw in a vote for the creation of a fork of which covers all terrain.

I know that "all terrain" sounds cliche, but a bike that is further evolved from the specialized enduro evo or the trek slash, each of which are coined as all mountain bikes today. I envision a bike that is able to pedal long distances well all the way up and across everything. I want to be able to ride from my house in the city for 50 miles then rock down a mountain side with a bike that can take hits and is comfy jumping and agile to control.

What I'm getting at is i'd like to see about a 150 to 180mm fork that can handle a downhill run, but is light: that idea has been beaten to death with a stick already, but your double barrel tech may be what evolves this truly do-it-all-mountain rig.

Sean
  • + 1
flag cloudspitzfaden (Oct 18, 2012 at 18:17)
 I would love to see a 180mm Freeride fork. So I could really have a "Cane-Creeked-Out" ride.
  • + 5
flag RLoganSx (Oct 18, 2012 at 21:37)
 180mm Single Crown with 40mm stanchions,through axle of course. Call it The Wyatt Earp.
  • + 1
flag fastboyslim (Oct 18, 2012 at 23:50)
 Why was this comment " below threshold"?
[Reply]
  • + 29
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:02)
 Wow - you guys are on it! Good morning or afternoon as the case may be!
  • + 21
flag Joseph-Kony (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:20)
 Not a question but massive props for doing this.
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:56)
 Holly: I need your help! Leave it to the Marketing Director to shamelessly exploit you...20 more likes and we get to 10k on our Facebook page...what a day! Oh and did I mention, when we get to 10,110 - we'll be giving away 10,110-series headsets! www.facebook.com/pages/Cane-Creek-Cycling-Components/124691776683
  • + 1
flag Joseph-Kony (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:09)
 Done.
  • + 1
flag Snfoilhat (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:19)
 @Holly Like #10,028. in another part of this thread there is a call for internships - is this for design/engineering only or for marketing/biz/etc as well? (If so, my resume is winging its way to NC). Thanks!
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:20)
 Holly: We made it - thanks - that'll come in handy when I hit up the boss for that raise.
  • + 2
flag superxi6 (Oct 17, 2012 at 23:32)
 An inverted fork, which needs little service and is easy to adjust and has plenty if adjustment would be able to easily compete with all the other forks on the market. I think Canada needs a new dh fork the just rock shock, fox, manitou and marzocchi
  • + 2
flag PacaroSandwitch (Oct 19, 2012 at 3:45)
 please... make a downhill fork that would compete with the fox 40, the manitou dorado, and the rockshox boxxer... but NOT in price. a sweet 203mm dual crown under 1500 bucks would be nice
  • + 1
flag taletotell (Oct 19, 2012 at 6:03)
 usually small outfits can't afford to cut the price and keep up quality. If they made a DH fork $100 more than a fox 40 it would be a good deal.
[Reply]
  • + 18
flag Charge262 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:18)
 Can i just say that this is an amazing thing for a company to do. direct feedback between companies and consumers is getting rare in this industry, and these posts really do wonders. I thoroughly support you guys, You make THE best headsets in the game, and hopefully I'll be in a position to try out one of your shocks soon. Keep it up!
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:35)
 Holly: We were honored when Pinkbike brought the idea to us and have been even more amazed by everyone's response! Now...my wheels are turning and my new goals is to convince the guys to do Live Chats in The Lounge ( www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge ) just like this. MUUHAHAHA!....whoops I think Josh just passed out.
[Reply]
  • + 20
flag kudos100 (Oct 17, 2012 at 7:59)
 When is the 1 1/8 angleset going to be available?
  • + 1
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:03)
 I agree. I'd love to slacken my MC.
  • + 7
flag nhp890 Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:48)
 There wouldn't be enough space in a 1.1/8 headset for the steerer to go at a certain angle
  • + 1
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:51)
 Yeah I started to think that after I commented.
  • + 2
flag spiffy (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:55)
 There might be enough room if the headset bearings were external as opposed to internal and have a much larger inner race diameter than would otherwise be required. It might look a bit funny, though, not to mention a high stack height (which wouldn't be an issue considering how many spacers people run under their stems).
  • + 3
flag pauch (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:55)
 sure stack height might increase but a small price to pay.. most old DH bikes could use an Angleset to keep geometry more updated because lets face it old DH bikes are just really built tough and the common reason people are not using them anymore is outdated geometry..
  • + 2
flag comacruz Mod Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:01)
 I believe CC did make a 1 1/8" (EC34) angleset but didn't release it to the public.

dirt.mpora.com/news/dirt-exclusive-1-18-angleset-campaign.html
  • + 9
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:15)
 Holly: It is possible to incorporate our AngleSet design within an 1 1/8 headtube. Were still in the process of evaluating whether there is enough market demand to move forward with the project.
  • + 4
flag chillzrace (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:17)
 So is the 1 1/8 headset going to be released to the public? I sure would buy 1.
  • + 2
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:37)
 I'd certainly buy one and I'm sure there'd be many more like me who would. Pretty sure the head angle for my bike is 67 so slackening that even by a little would make a big difference. Not only do I love my bike but I also don't have the money for a new one with up to date geometry. I wouldn't be the only one either.
  • + 1
flag Ploutre (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:16)
 Also interesting in an 1-1/8th angleset (even though my Hope headset is like brand new ...) ! Might get 2 ... but the hardtail has an integrated headtube ...
  • + 0
flag sngltrkmnd (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:22)
 Regarding a straight 1 1/8" AngleSet: What's the max change in HT angle one could expect from such a component? I offer that it would be about as minimal as the potential market. What say you, Cane Creek?
  • + 2
flag betsie Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:37)
 www.workscomponents.co.uk/full-headsets---most-common-sizes-10-c.asp

The works components headsets do what is required, not frills, they just work.
  • + 1
flag comacruz Mod Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:01)
 Didn't want to post that until the question period was over. Thought it would be the proper etiquette. That said, I have one on the way for my wife's V-10.3.
  • + 1
flag dump (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:45)
 the works headset is brilliant, I have 2 of them.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:23)
 Holly: sngltrkmnd....1 degree.
  • + 1
flag fugrus (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:50)
 Again Sam? Really?
[Reply]
  • + 16
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:35)
 Alright everyone - we are out of here! Thanks so much for spending the day with us - its been fun. Time for a coldie! Chris, Josh, Jim, Holly, Malcolm, Gary, Eric & Nick
[Reply]
  • + 12
flag freddiehg (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:07)
 Hello cane creek staff, I have been drawn to the bike industry for quite some time, and in conjunction with an interest in engineering I've decided that i would love, if anything, to be working in the industry as a professional engineer. What sort of professional degrees or training do your engineers have and what is expected at other companies more specialized in frame design, (trek, specialized, etc.)?
  • + 48
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:26)
 All of our engineers have PhD.'s in nuclear physics. That is kinda the price of entry for an engineer in the cycling industry.
  • + 1
flag freddiehg (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:28)
 Curt.
  • + 17
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:08)
 Jim: In all seriousness though, you'll want some kind of mechanical engineering degree. Experience with Solidworks or ProE/Creo is a must and for the frame guys some FEA knowledge would be good. I myself have a BS in mechanical with lots of SW experience and several years of bike shop wrenching under my belt. Josh also has a BS in mechanical engineering with a masters degree and part of a PhD on top of that. He's literally a rocket scientist. I think the biggest thing if you want to be in the industry is to get some decent credentials and then just continue being passionate about bikes. Trust me, we do this because we love it, not for the money.
  • + 1
flag lurchh (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:31)
 ^Sweet! So do you guys machine prototypes yourselves in the shop? i.e. does/can the designer then go on to fabricate the prototype themselves? Would pretty much be my ideal job...
  • + 8
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:34)
 Jim: Lurchh, you'll often find one of our engineers out on the floor making chips. I'm not going to lie, it's pretty awesome.
  • + 1
flag lurchh (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:41)
 Wow, sounds awesome!
  • + 3
flag freddiehg (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:52)
 Thanks for the reply, got a laugh out of me.
  • + 1
flag Xfighter (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:46)
 hey, i am 18 and also would love to work in the bike industry, but i would be more interested in suspension design however it is a very specific market in my opinion. what would i have to do to get into this area after doing a undergraduate in mechanical engineering? do you need a post graduate?
thanks for any info.
Marcel
  • + 2
flag StuLax18 (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:49)
 When are you guys hiring? I graduate in June with a BSME, personally I feel I am strongest in Machine design, as well as hands on machine shop work. Should end up with a FEA class by the time I graduate also.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:11)
 Holly: Its exciting around here - check our website for employment posts: www.canecreek.com/culture/employment
  • + 2
flag Stephen101 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:18)
 I'm still in high school, so this info is perfect for me because working in the biking industry is my dream, so now I know what I'll have to do to fulfill the dream
  • + 1
flag StuLax18 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:33)
 If you're still in HS, I'd say get a part time job at a LBS. I wish I had experience like this, because it seems to be one of the easiest ways into the industry. Certainly helps to have that experience.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:47)
 Jim: LBS experience is a big help!
  • + 1
flag Xfighter (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:04)
 i already do work in my LBS, and planning to do a course on suspension service from toxoholics (fox center in germany like mojo for UK).
but no one has answerd my question from CC Frown
what university degree do you normaly need to work in designing suspension and dampening systems?
and what should you do after having that degree?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:24)
 Jim: Xfighter, see my response above. Suspension and damper design would fall into Mechanical Engineering. After that degree try your hardest to get a job doing it...experience is the best teacher by far.
  • + 1
flag StuLax18 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:49)
 I can tell you that an ME degree will have you taking classes that deal with springs, damping, etc among many other classes.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:04)
 Josh: Don't forget thermodynamics, heat transfer, and good old fashion coding.
  • + 1
flag dylan-honar (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:56)
 Should i get this or the van rc
  • + 1
flag companirides (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:18)
 double barrel
[Reply]
  • + 10
flag spiffy (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:26)
 I would love to see a dropper seatpost from Cane Creek. Have you guys ever considered this? I also just saw that you mentioned electrical engineering in one of your answers - how about a battery operated post that cycles up and down on its own?
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:30)
 Holly: Thanks for the idea Spiffy!
[Reply]
  • + 9
flag sarcastic (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:13)
 Question for Jim: Why did you leave a life of sex,drugs and rock&roll as the lead man for the Doors to work as a design engineer? Being an engineer, I know you're no longer getting any of those.

Many thanks. And rock on.
  • + 58
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:31)
 Jim: Good question Sarcastic, I found the lifestyle of a '60s rockstar to be too bland for my liking. After much self reflection and a near death experience I chose the life of a bicycle engineer in western NC because as you know it's pretty much all loose women and free blow for the Lizard King.
  • - 4
flag naadams2 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:23) (Below Threshold) show comment
 off topic but i too am from western NC. go catamounts!
[Reply]
  • + 8
flag bigtim (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:53)
 One of the biggest problems I've had with air shocks is that I'm a lanky git weighing in at like 230lbs, and that's before I don riding gear and day pack. All previous experiments with rear shocks especially leaves a lot to be desired because I have to ramp the pressure way up thus losing a lot of small bump sensitivity, Now, I haven't actually tried the DB air, but I'd like to know if your design process of an air shock takes in consideration of someone my size and if you have any other thoughts. I normally run coil over shocks now as I get the feeling I'm after (I do XC, Enduro and DH riding) but always think I could be missing out on the air shock experience.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:31)
 Chris: The beauty of the DB Air is that the high- and low-speed compression and rebound are independent of the air can. Similar to the Coil, while you set the preload (sag) on the spring (air can), the adjustability is in the damper, the closed oil circuits.

We've tested the DB Air on a variety of bikes and under a variety of riders (XC geeks to National-level downhill racing), and while we can't address your setup specifically, we can tell you that it's unquestionably the most adjustable shock on the market, and would likely be able to be tuned to meet your needs. Have you checked out the Suspension section of our web site for more information? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension Thanks for the question!
  • + 2
flag jaydmf (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:12)
 Dude i share your pain, im 5'9" and weigh 9 stone, shocks have always been way to stiff resulting in having to mess with the tuning to get a good feel or way too soft in the mid stroke meaning i have to bang the pressure up and as you say lose small bump compliance.

My advice: buy a DB air, works absoultly amazing once its dialed, and even when its not its blown all previous shocks ive had out of the water. no blowing through travel ala rp23, no crap midstroke ala dhx air/ swinger and unlike the coil shocks ive owned i can get the spring rate correct. It is steep on the price but worth every penny for the ride quality. My beloved lyriks which i always thought were the best piece of gear on my bike now feel like they came off an apollo in comparion.
  • + 6
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:37)
 Jim: BigTim, the response from Chris above of course rings true with regard to damping and as you may know our shocks are well known for their exceptional lack of stiction which contributes to their low-speed sensitivity. But I read you question to be with regard to the spring itself so I will try to speak directly to that. I will start by saying that I think that your observances regarding coil and air feel are without regard to your impressive stature. Coil springs and air springs are inherently different.

Coil springs will typically be more sensitive for two reasons. The first is that you don't have all the extra seals associated with an air spring so a lot of friction goes out the window right there. The other reason is that you can more easily vary the force required to get the correct sag (preload) and the rate of the spring. In the other words you could achieve the correct sag with a high spring rate and very little preload or a lower spring rate and more preload. In the first case you would lose sensitively because the spring force would increase quickly once you pass the sag point. In the second case you gain low-speed sensitively while perhaps compromising bottom-out resistance. Either way, the point is that preload and spring rate can be varied independently.

With air springs you of course lose some sensitivity due to the friction of the air seals but you also lose the ability to tune preload independently of spring rate. This is because most if not all air shocks on the market have a negative spring that charges automatically. More negative pressure is like less preload. When we design the negative spring charging port we try to hit the optimum location for the most sensitivity but since you cannot vary the spring rate independently of the "preload" the air spring will often not be as sensitive as some coil setups.

Make sense?
  • + 1
flag matt5311 (Oct 17, 2012 at 20:35)
 very new to mtb but I had that theory about the "high spring rate+ low preload vs low spring rate+ high preload" myself as iv'e bin trying to sort the settings on my fox 40. thanks for clarifying that for me as I didn't want to go buying a new spring and find out my idea was wrong. iv'e got a makulu and it just floats along, its very subtle but would prefer a bit more feedback/feeling from the track. so a firm spring is now on its way. Smile
  • + 1
flag bigtim (Oct 18, 2012 at 2:10)
 Thanks for the answers, really informative. The one thing other I would like to know about air shocks is about their natural rising rate (happy to be corrected on that - I'm not an expert!). If I pump up an air shock to 200psi (when lighter riders are running like 150) it is already a good portion of its way through it's 'spring curve', which I believe is another reason why I lose out on a lot of small bump sensitivity. As I said, I'm no expert but would be interested to know.
(and yes, I know the CC guys have left, just wondering if anyone else might know.)
  • + 1
flag jaydmf (Oct 18, 2012 at 4:13)
 @Bigtim, my understanding of this is that your cranking up the pressure in order to stop bottom out right ? your losing small bump compliance because your running too much pressure so the shock is ramping up way too fast. ideally youd need something that gives you HSC control to resist bottoming and that way you could run lower pressure giving you small bump performace back. I had this with an RP23.
  • + 1
flag bigtim (Oct 19, 2012 at 1:41)
 Jaydmf - nail on the head....
  • + 1
flag kdiff (Oct 19, 2012 at 21:25)
 Sorry, but either I'm confused here or I got a different answer from you guys (Cane Creek) when I called. I had a 450lb ti spring on my CCDB when I originally built my bike. At that time I weighed 205lbs w/o gear and the shock felt great. I now weigh 155lbs w/o gear and have barely any preload on the 450lb spring to get the proper sag. I've adjusted the shock over & over but I would swear the shock doesn't feel quite as good over small rough stuff. I called and asked about changing to a lighter spring rate (350lbs, as this is what I've seen other riders my weight using) and was told as long as I got the correct sag the spring doesn't matter and because of this I've kept tinkering with shock as it just doesn't feel quite as smooth as I think it should. Based on what I read above it looks like going to a lighter spring rate may actually be beneficial?
  • + 2
flag jaydmf (Oct 21, 2012 at 15:38)
 @ Bigtim, Look out for a cheap dhx air or maybe consider a monarch plus rc3 if money is tight. my experience of the DHX is that its just an rp23 with a bit of bottoming resistance which may help. if your running a high volume can and its an RP23 you could swap to the standard can which may help a small amount as its going to ramp up more and its a pretty cheap mod. same if this is with a monarch. From my experience however nothing has the control of the DB for HSC. im talking air cans here. my personal preference is always to have a bit in reserve when it comes to travel i dont like bottoming forks/shox.

@ Kdiff i would certainly try a lighter spring use the same setup as with the 450. TF tuning have a spring calculator that may be handy as it may be worth going to a 400 rather than a 350 but depends on your preference, riding style and frame. with my orange i always found i wanted a higher weight than the calculator but the same shock on a tomac needed a lighter spring so its a bit trial and error.
[Reply]
  • + 7
flag krisrayner (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:35)
 I've heard some shocks are better suited to different frames depending on leverage rate and leverage curve (progressive, falling, etc). What type of suspension is best suited for the CCDB coil? I'm currently riding a Yeti ASR7 and curious as to how they will play together.
  • + 8
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:56)
 Josh: awesome question. This is the exact reason we made the DBair, for bikes that like/need a progressive spring rate. Anyway, the DBcoil (CCDB) likes bikes with a "progressive" leverage ratio. Mike Levy did a nice job explaining this in the recent Rock Shox rear shock article, but basically this means that the ending leverage ratio is lower than the starting leverage ratio. On the Yeti ASR7, the DBcoil rocks. I have a friend who rides that exact setup.
  • + 1
flag j-man1 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:39)
 My question is very similar to krisrayner; but for a mojo hd, many riders have choose the CCBD Air but they have found a lot of issues trying to get the correct feeling, this is due to dw link design?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:55)
 Jim: You're on the right track but it's not due to the DW design generically but due to the specific design of the Mojo HD. As you may be aware (and as a fellow pinkbiker posted elsewhere in this discussion) we have a new "high flow" inner air can that increases the linearity of the air spring during high shaft velocity events. Our experience has been that this update really helps to dial in the feel on the Mojo HD. Give your local service center a call to see about updating your shock if you're having issues on an HD.
  • + 1
flag Brett13 (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:27)
 DB Air or DB Coil? Trek Session 9.9? Santa Cruz V10c?
  • + 1
flag Operator1997 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:08)
 Session, DBAir strong enough?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:41)
 Josh: Brett13 - Trek Session 9.9 - DBcoil - see settings on our tune finder. Having said that, if you are park riding your 9.9 the DBair does work very well as some serious Whistler time has proven. SCB V10c - a hard call. Malc likes the DBair because it allows use of both travel settings without needing an extra spring. I prefer the DBcoil because I use the big travel setting only.
  • + 1
flag mulllz (Oct 17, 2012 at 22:29)
 iv got a 2012 giant glory and i dont know weather to go a db air or coi?l and will it suit this style of bike?
[Reply]
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flag drewfis (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:01)
 How do I get rid of the stiction in the beginning of the stroke on my CCDB? I have the same problem with my DB and DBA. The stiction on the air has kinda got better but it's still there and coils still as bad as it always was.

Any help would be RAD!!!!!
  • + 7
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:14)
 Josh: Can you call us on this? The Double Barrel has an inherently low friction design, maybe there is something else at play here. 800.234.2725
  • + 7
flag stokedcheech420 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:12)
 the more and more i follow cane creeks stuff the more i like them its like they have a help desk right in the products pages. prob gonna switch up some rear suspension here pretty soon.
[Reply]
  • + 7
flag Sweatypants (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:14)
 Why is the DBAir the best shock ever, and what seat can you potentially recommend to coincide with the constant erection I get from using this awesome shock?
  • + 27
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:27)
 Holly: I actually have a canned response for this, we get it so often.....we recommend the Hobson Easy Seat. painfreecycling.com/index.php/bike-seats/hobson-saddles?gclid=CL2o2du7iLMCFQKCnQodWXAAdg
  • + 2
flag Sweatypants (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:53)
 *slow clap* haha.

seriously thanks though, shock is foreal the best one I've ever used when paired with my Intense Tracer 2. I love it. I know some of the other responses said, "sometimes engineers win out over marketing (shock coatings)"... but pairing up with Ohlins sure didn't hurt you guys (maybe that was both sided). Been racing cars and motorbikes a long while, and that name is one the industry standard names synonymous with quality. Good marketing choice to broadcast that one. Keep on keeping on.
  • + 1
flag cuban-b (Oct 18, 2012 at 0:36)
 I agree. Ohlins is legit and you guys being engineers know that. It's a classic argument of form vs function. I can say with confidence that the CCDB and air shock accomplish both superbly. with function being the primary driving force of innovation of course.
[Reply]
  • + 4
flag craig7 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:05)
 I work at a cannondale dealership and we get alot of people that want to change their headshocks to standard forks. The problem is that Cdales 1.5 headtube actually measures to 1.56 and there are no headsets availble for this. Any chance you guys will make one?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:22)
 Jim: Whoa! Great Question!!! Cannondale has several different headtubes - some of them are standard "1.5" which is actually a 49.76mm "SHIS: 49". There are many different headsets that are available for this type of headtube that will work with many standard forks. The two other headtubes they use on mountain bikes utilize proprietary bearings that press directly into the headtube and currently (as you know) there is no aftermarket support for these headtubes. As we understand it, Cannondale offers headset options for fitting standard forks to these headtubes but you will be limited to 1 1/8" steerer forks. As a dealership, do you have access to these parts?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:29)
 More specifically, prior to 2010, Cannondale Headshok and Lefty head-tubes can be converted to a standard 1-1/8" fork with a ZS49|ZS49/30 headset, as the inner diameter was 49.5mm. Since 2010, however, the head-tubes are 50.5mm, and currently the only converter is available from Cannondale.
  • + 1
flag craig7 (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:24)
 No access in Canada as of yet for these parts. thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
[Reply]
  • + 4
flag spudlord (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:04)
 I have a CCDB with 16mm eyelets and spherical bearings fitted, can I use the spherical bearing on 34x8mm and 22.2mm shock hardware? Or will I need to change to bushings?

Also can the CCDB be used with 12.7mm hardware if norglide bushings are fitted?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:12)
 Josh: You will need to change to bushings. Our max recommended width for spherical bearings is 25.4mm.

As for the 12.7mm hardware - yes.
  • + 3
flag spudlord (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:18)
 So I could essentially run the spherical bearing at one end 22.2mm hardware and a bushing at the other 34mm hardware then?
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:37)
 Josh: Yes. We made shocks several years ago that were spec'ed just like this.
[Reply]
  • + 3
flag cjwanner Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:20)
 Hey Guys! As it is notoriously known that the rockshox vivid air does not play nice with the 2011-2012 demo 8's, atleast without personal risk and modification, will the DBA fit in the DB yolk as provided by specialized? I want to switch over to air on my demo 8, and don't want to rip apart a shock to grind off a tab.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:45)
 The DBair for the Demo 8 (2011-2013) is not ready yet, as it requires a different interface at the rear shock mount. Having said that, we've been riding them for well over a year now. One of our engineers won several DH races on this exact setup coupled with a Boxxer WC.
  • + 1
flag jimferno (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:53)
 Any estimations on a time frame for release then?

I'd love to try a DB air on either of our Demos.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:18)
 Holly: My lips are sealed.
  • + 1
flag XxJ0SEPHxX (Oct 19, 2012 at 2:28)
 i would love to put a CCDB air on my demo...do let us kow know where and how we can get the shock and yoke when it becomes available!
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag nelsonryder (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:28)
 Hey Cane Creek,
So i have a question, I just finished a pretty great season in whistler and i had a few friends running CCDB coil shocks. Only problem is they all snapped their shafts on them 2-4 times. bad set up? or Whistler just eats bikes? also they were on 2011 Demo 8's
  • + 3
flag Socket (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:32)
 It's the fault of the shock extender on the Demos, basically - it puts a bending load on the shaft at bottom out that they were never supposed to see. I have seen updated shafts (9.5mm diameter IIRC instead of the standard 8mm) from CC to help this issue - someone from Cane Creek can give you more info on that.
  • + 1
flag nelsonryder (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:37)
 I think that basically answers my question. I was really just wondering why. Thanks Socket
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  • + 3
flag irotenberg (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:29)
 What does Cane Creek currently do in its design and manufacturing to increase its environmental sustainability? What direction do you see your company and the industry going in the near future?
  • + 30
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:03)
 David: The #1 consumer of energy in our facility is lighting. To lower our footprint, we recently upgraded much of our plant lighting to T-8 fixtures, which are much more efficient, and plan to complete the process by summer next year. In addition, our goal is to become a zero-land-fill facility by the end of 2013, and we already have in place an aggressive recycling program.

Being environmentally conscious is not only good for communities, it's good for business, and we believe the industry as a whole is moving in that direction.
  • - 4
flag WAKIdesigns (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:21) (Below Threshold) show comment
 Hehe, have you read "Confessions of a radixal industrialist" by Ray Anderson?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:51)
 David: Sorry, no, haven't read that -- thanks for the suggestion.
  • - 1
flag WAKIdesigns (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:21)
 it's really good and of a great value to everyone, I guess you guys implement most of the stuff he writes about already, but it is truly amazing book on how to make things right with enviornment in mind, and cash on it better than doing things in wasteful way Smile I was fortunate to use products and services with Andersons company "Interface" and they do more great stuff than it is written about in the book. It's just better when you meet those guys.

I just thought it was relevant to your previous comment.

All the best!
Wacek
[Reply]
  • + 3
flag Socket (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:19)
 Any plans for a dropper seatpost? A 6" drop post with high reliability, infinite adjustment and smooth actuation (hydraulic remote would be ideal, a la the Reverb) would be killer.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:37)
 Holly: Not at this time....sorry - hate to disappoint.
[Reply]
  • + 3
flag tadass (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:13)
 Hey Guys,

What is the purpose of the new high-volume inner air can for the DBAir? Would it be beneficial to put the new inner can in the DBAir on my Knolly Chilcotin?

Thanks,
  • + 3
flag Catch22 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:34)
 I'd love to hear more about this as well in terms of the potential benefits. I'm not having any getting full travel when running sag in the 30-35% range but wouldn't mind being able to get full travel while setting up for a bit less sag.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:17)
 Josh: some myths to bust here:
1) The new inner air can is actually not high volume, it is just higher flow. It improves the air flow between the inner and outer air cans.
2) The new inner air can cannot hurt, but isn't always necessary. You should look into it if you are not able to achieve full travel in situations where you would like to and have sag and HSC set properly.

Catch22 - If you wanna run less sag on the Chili (and awesome bike btw) the new inner can would be your cup of tea.
  • + 1
flag sup3rc0w (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:22)
 Does the new air can make the shock more linear in it;s travel?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:38)
 Jim: The new inner air can increases the spring's linearity during high shaft-velocity events. At low shaft speeds there's no change in the spring curve.
  • + 1
flag sup3rc0w (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:55)
 Thanks Jim!
[Reply]
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flag deanomatic (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:53)
 Hey CC crew

I ride a mondraker summum, and id love to try out the CCDB coil or air.

the shock mounts sizes are however not the usual 6 or 8 MM but rather 1 22x10 mm.

Ive been looking for mountkits to accomodate this but so far no luck.

The bike is not listed on the bikefinder.

Thx Smile
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:29)
 Malcolm:

We do have 22x10mm hardware part # .HWDL we have sold a number of DB's to Mondraker owners. Great bike!
  • + 2
flag Keiron (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:11)
 Thank the lord! Deffo buying a DB now! Had the same issue, couldn't see the bike listed. Cheers
[Reply]
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flag Catch22 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:28)
 Hey guys,

The base tunes section of your site has different tunes for the 2012 and 2013 Knolly Chilcotin. The frame itself hasn't seen any changes that I know of, has the DBAir undergone any changes in that time?

Thanks!
Brian
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:32)
 Malcolm: We're working with Knolly on those and will update our web site once they've been finalized. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 3
flag LamaCycles Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:54)
 Hey guys, just wanted to say we love what you've done with the brand and the products.

The team enjoyed the DB Air this year on our Makulus ( www.pinkbike.com/photo/8118990 ).

Keep up the good work!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:25)
 Holly: Awwwww shucks, now I'm blushing. Honestly though - much like our answers today, its truly a team effort in everything we do. Thanks for representing us so well!
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag Antoncor (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:21)
 A lot of people is complaining about the DBAir being too progressive. Is it really just a problem of air flow betwen the two chambers, or is it going to be almost the same with the new sleeve??? Fox has a table in their site with the compresion ratio of all their shocks. (Initial volume/final volume) and they are around 3:1... Can you give us a number to compare the BDAir with them? It would be very helpfull.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:41)
 Jim: Yeah. In some cases the "too progressive" feeling is a result of the air flow between the inner and outer air cans being slightly restricted. The updated inner air can (see our response to Tadass) addresses this. With regard to compression ratios, our compression ratio varies slightly with respect to damper length but generally falls within 3.15 - 3.45 : 1.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:41)
 Holly: Ok, Ok....that is enough for now Jim.
  • + 1
flag Antoncor (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:10)
 Thanks, that CR looks good, not crazy hight at all, so I guess that the new version will work very good on most bikes.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag doodooboy (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:43)
 I have a DB air, and a previously a DB coil. Now when I back it out to reset my setup, is there a chance that I could go too far back and accidently unscrew the adjusters which would release oil or nitro pressure? I have some what pushed it too far at one point cause I was trying to find when it ends spinning. And a little oil came out. Did I ruin my shock?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:52)
 Chris: There are detents and stops on the adjusters, however they are fairly "light." If you're backing out the needles, you do need to be careful -- these are high-performance pieces of equipment, and tolerances are tight. As long as you experience the end point in either direction, you should be OK -- if you got a little oil when closing the circuit, it shouldn't be a problem.

Oh, and the nitro pressure is set and closed, you won't affect that at all.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag bmxtb (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:43)
 Dear CaneCreek,
do you have an apprenticeship (10 weeks) and a following bachelor thesis/paper (3 months) to complete my mechanical engineering degree? I'm currently a student at the 'Beuth Hochschule für Technik' (Technical College) in Berlin, Germany. But I won't think a minute about resettling.. If so, I would write out an application?!
  • + 1
flag bmxtb (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:45)
 'Oh yeah check this out: bmxtb.pinkbike.com/blog/My-Internship-at-Nicolai-Engineering.html

I would say I'm not the worst apprentice Smile
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:04)
 Jim: We don't have an official program but send us a resume!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag SundayVans (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:42)
 I have a 2012 Glory and want to put a DB Air shock on. I have seen DB Coil shocks mounted with great results, but I have not seen DB Air on 2010-2013 Glory. Can you please tell me if the DBA mounts to Glory? If not, can you please tell me when an air shock will be available? Thank you!
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:52)
 Josh: Very soon SundayVans, very soon. The DBair eyelet required for the 2012 Glory is the same as that required for several other bikes (Bergamont Big Air, previous generation Demo 8, etc). We'll certainly have that by the end of the year, though I can't quote an exact date right now.
  • + 1
flag SundayVans (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:59)
 Thank you!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag rossimcfly (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:11)
 Hello, I have a two part question please.
1- I recently acquired a Canfield Brothers One frame with a 2013 DB air. Did you guys spec the installed volume spacer specifically for this bike? Or should I experiment with the other spacers?

2- With no riding on it at all, there is a small knock from bushing play and I am pretty sure it is from the rearward shock mount. Should I contact Canfield or Cane Creek about this?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:27)
 Malcolm:
The volume spacer sizes spec is for the size shock. You would add the spacers as needed for a more progressive feel.

Call the CS crew here 800 234 2725 we can help you with the bushing play.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Mishtar (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:53)
 I noticed that Banshee has been running a CCDB Air on the new Banshee Rune V2 while finishing up testing on the Proto frames. I was wondering if you guys have been given a frame to do any testing yourselves so that you can have the Tune stats up on your sight once the new Rune is released?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:04)
 Josh: We did an extensive testing session with Banshee at Whistler (an insanely fun first chair to last chair day), followed up with European testing by the Banshee guys. Settings for the DBair on the Rune V2 are dialed. See our Tune Finder to see the exact settings: canecreek.com/products/suspension/db-air/base-tunes

On a side note, the Prime is sooooo fun
  • + 1
flag TWilks (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:15)
 Are you going to provide more base tunes for somewhat uncommon bikes that come stock with the CCDB? I was thinking the Zerode in particular.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:30)
 Holly: Working on that TWilks, see my answer to HarryakaDave. We are all in!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag XtremeHunter (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:50)
 Hey guys,

I'm currently riding a '11 Specialzed Enduro Evo. I want to upgrade my suspension to a Air-Shock that gives me the same downhill performance as the Steel-Version, but shows better performance uphill and gives me a better weight on my bike.
Since you're supplying the '13 Enduros with your CCDBA I would like to ask if it also fits into the older Enduros and if it's possible to get it with the needed changes made (special travel, special socket) or let somebody do the needes changes to it.

Also you're supplying a special Lever for the '13 S-Works Enduro to change the lowspeed-compression faster while riding. Is that lever going to be supplied as an aftermarket product?

Thanks for your answers and keep upt the good work,

Ben
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:59)
 Jim: Ben, check out the thread started by Lexatron14
  • + 1
flag XtremeHunter (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:47)
 Thanks, Jim.
Can you already say, about what time it will be available? I want to upgrade the suspension this winter, before Season starts in March.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:03)
 Jim: It is available now and all new shocks being shipped come equipped this way!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag MadJeeperCJ5 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:11)
 Hey CaneCreek, I'm currently looking in to buying a Morewood Jabula, my current setup is a Pivot firebird with a 36 160 talas and Kashima RP23. I was wondering if the DBair would serve me good for climbing or should I stick with an RP23 and it's pro pedal? My current RP23 is to soft on the compression side when I hit the fast rough stuff. I'm guessing the DBair would be alot better on the downhills, but it's loosing efficiency in the uphills that I'm worried about. I ride AM/enduro mostly. Any plans for a more AM/XC shock like the RP23 and Monarc RC3?

Thanks!
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:06)
 Josh: Morewood Jabula and DBair are a very nice couple. They snuggle and never go to bed angry. We're working on settings for the DBair on the Firebird now... seriously, there is one in my office.

The DBair can be setup on either bike to be an efficient climber. Of course there will be a compromise in some low speed sensitivity, so depending on your preferences (what you value more: uphill or downhill) it may or may not be the right choice for you.

Any plans for a more AM/XC shock - that would be awesome huh?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag thebatu (Oct 18, 2012 at 12:48)
 I would like to see a smart marketing! there are too many models of forks with complicated naming! for example Apple has 2 kinds of laptops MacBook Pro and Mac Air! easy to follow. While SRAM has so many models that confuse ppl.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag commencalcruzer (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:53)
 Think its a fantastic idea that you take time to speak to the people who actually buy your products to see what the consumer wants/needs. Alot of companies could learn from this.

Im currently running a CCDB on my tracer, and have to say its transformed the bike totally, however thinking about switching it out for the air version. Other than the weight is there any advantages to doing this?

Just to be nosey, what's there to look forward to from CC in 2013?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Andy
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:13)
 Josh: for 2013 we're all getting new calendars!
  • + 1
flag commencalcruzer (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:16)
 haha, epic reply!
  • + 1
flag six66 (Oct 17, 2012 at 18:15)
 Just wanted to say commencalcruzer, I dont think Cane Creek was blowing off your question, its just been said more than once that the ccdbair is a more progressive option to the ccdb to suit different bikes' leverage rates
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flag commencalcruzer (Oct 18, 2012 at 10:59)
 thought it might have, but kind of gave up trying to keep track of all the questions and answers
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flag dmadness (Oct 17, 2012 at 19:04)
 yeah im late to find out but hopefully CC is still listening or reading. awesome shock, thicker shaft will be even more so. and stoked to hear youre thinking about forks....

what would happen if a fork and a shock could communicate? what if tuning was simple from RTD feedback that was individualy taken from each ride a rider had. >?

your shocks stand out from the rest ive ridden, will the forks? I will gladly test the first gen.
[Reply]
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flag ShantySpark (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:40)
 Is there a size of the DBAir that will fit a 2012 Giant Trance. I had looked around your site and there was no listing for the Trance. As I understand it, the Trance has a weird stroke length, so would I need to get it custom if I wanted to run that rear shock?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:05)
 Holly: I'm afraid we'll have to get back with you on this one.
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flag ShantySpark (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:07)
 Ok thanks! It is something I was looking at since my RP2 has blown the seals twice this summer.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Nov 2, 2012 at 8:09)
 Sorry we do not have a DB Air or Coil to fit the Giant Trance models, due to the unique shock size and stroke required.
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flag ShantySpark (Nov 2, 2012 at 14:21)
 Thanks for getting back to me. Will keep looking for a solution!
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flag blocks (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:35)
 hi cane creek its shane haines from moose jaw i have a few questions fore your suspension guys and hi holly. i have a 2004 santa cruz v10.1 i just bought it has a 5th element air dh shock on it i can find any tech stuff on it . and the reveiws i found say it was very good. and can i put your db air in to my frame with harm the geomitry of. they were only at the time of build 7inch max.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:48)
 Malcolm:
Blocks the older V10 looks like there is enough room to place a DBair on the frame. If you are near Vancouver James at Suspension Werx maybe he could mock up a fit.
[Reply]
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flag Duc1098 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:56)
 Awesome idea to pull this together, it's great! I have a 2010 Specialized Enduro and I was thinking about upgrading to a DBAir. When I go to your fit finder I don't see an option for it. What are your thoughts on running the DBAir on this bike?

Cheers!
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:16)
 Josh: see @Lexatron14
[Reply]
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flag goatster (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:26)
 A customer's shock, ccdb air, fitted to a nomad c. After a week of heavy use, it is now stiff at the beginning of the stroke, drops the next inch, hits another 'stiff' point then ramps up rapidly through the rest of the travel. Rd say this is normal... We don't think so and sent it back regardless. Your opinion? Regards T
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:54)
 Jim: Well, that certainly doesn't sound normal so it's good your sent it back. I can't think of anything that would cause this feeling but I hope your distributor and service center are taking care of you.
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flag prototype26 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:46)
 Hey CaneCreek team. Do you guys offer internships for mech eng students? It's a little while away still for me (another 2 years till I do my placement) but doing a placement within the cycling industry would be fantastic. I've already used SolidWorks before; is that what you guys stick to, or do you have some method of using other programs like SolidEdge, Matlab etc?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:15)
 Holly: We do - send us your resume when the time comes!!!
Basic Job Requirements are:
1. Love of Hillbilly culture
2. Love of beer and banjos
3. Missing teeth (not required but instant credibility)
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flag prototype26 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:18)
 awesome, thanks for the reply Holly! I think i'll have to save up a lot before then, as sadly I live in Scotland, far away from you guys!
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flag makripper (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:30)
 Would the Double Air work well with a 2011 demo 8 2? how similar would the characteristics be to my boxxer wc up front? also 2011. I am currently running an RC4, while it is very tunable, and a great shock, I want to find somthing that balances out the world cup, because they both have entirely different feelings and characteristics, no matter what the setup or situation.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:46)
 Josh: see @cjwanner
[Reply]
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flag jnooth (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:27)
 Can you go into more detail about the dbair on a 2012 demo 8. I currently run a vivid air and love it but have been interested in the tune ability of the DBair. First off, I worry it will be a nightmare to fit like my vivid was. And second, will it be to progressive? I do not like a harsh ramp up near the end of my travel.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:47)
 Josh: see @cjwanner
[Reply]
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flag stifford (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:17)
 Squeaky CC ti spring? I replaced the stock steel spring with the ti version on a new Demo II but right after the swap, it sounds like a box spring with a binder-full of women. I've snugged up and wound down the pre-load, added some grease to the spring retaining collars, but no silence. Function is otherwise perfect. Make it go away!?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:43)
 Malcolm:
Stifford - you said binder full of women----- Ti springs tend to have a thicker coil size and a little rougher finish so it's likely rubbing the spring sleeve. Make sure the open of the coil is not facing the open end of the spring retainer. You may also want to try an flip the spring over.
[Reply]
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flag rednova (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:56)
 Hey guys, So right now I have a CC 110 headset on my Rune which has a full 1.5 head tube with a fox float tapered steer fork, but I will be switching to the new Rune that has a tapered head tube. I'm guessing I can keep the bottom of the headset, but for the top do I need to replace the whole thing or can I just replace the cup as the bearing already fits a 1 1/8 steer? Thanks
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:07)
 Chris: Thanks for the question. The Rune you currently have is a ZS49 converter for that steerer tube; the new one is a ZS44, right? Same bearing, but the cups and covers are all different, so it's a new Top assembly. The good news is, CC offers Tops and Bottoms separately, so you don't have to purchase a whole new headset, just the Top!
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flag Mutly (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:59)
 Hi, I am running a CCDBA on my Ibis Mojo HD but do not get close to using full travel. On NSMB I saw that a high volume mod - an internal air can giving larger air volume, is available now. Do you think that would help me?
I am 175lbs, 6'4" tall, riding an XL-size Mojo HD with Talas 180 forks, one offset shock bushing to keep the BB down and to slack it off half a degree. I run the CC-website recommended settings for Mojo HD apart from slowing the fast rebound just a tiny bit to match the fork but have had to reduce HSC to zero. With 104 to 108psi I get about 35% sag and in high-G berms the shock travels much deeper in its travel than my RP23 or DHX5.0 did. It feels a bit soft pulling up out of corners. I am fully aware that full travel does not use the last few mm of the damper body and I have full travel, with zero air, marked with a zip-tie, so that I can judge. Is the mod user-serviceable? Is it available in UK?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:53)
 Jim: see tadass' thread
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:55)
 Malcolm: Mutly,The new inner air can is actually not high volume, it is just higher flow. It improves the air flow between the inner and outer air cans.
You should look into it if you are not able to achieve full travel in situations where you would like to and have sag and HSC set properly.

TF tuned should have the can available!
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:58)
 Sorry if you are near Vancouver Suspension Werx has the inner cans. TF Tuned is in the UK......
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flag xJakup88x (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:26)
 Hi, I am going to be purchasing a 2013 Canfield Jedi and am set on getting cane creek suspension with it. I am thinking I want the DB air but saw this thread and thought I would ask your opinion. I weigh about 220 with my gear on and plan to do just about everything with the bike including racing, bike parks, and the occasional short uphill to get to the downhill which is why I liked the adjustability of the air shock. Would the DB air be a good choice for me or would the coil be a better fit.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:45)
 Eric: With the multiple travel settings on the bike, and the DB Air's adjustment range, you may opt for the Air since you're riding different stuff all the time. It would be easier to set up proper sag, etc. The Air will be more progressive and "lively;" if that's not your cup of tea, go for the Coil.
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flag jrjess (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:10)
 Hi Cane Creek, I'm currently using an angleset on my SC Tallboy LTc and after following your video and installation process carefully i'm still having a light knocking sound on my headset. I tried reinstalling it twice already with more grease and proper alignment but it still make a pop sound when the bike hits a bump. Is there anything else i can do to solve this issue.
Also im running a DB Air on my 2011 Turner DHR and i was wondering so i need to upgrade to the new sleeve since its a DW Link bike? Also what is the service intervals for the DB Air and can it be done ourselves? can you guys come up with a video for the DIY servicing i it is possible? And i would definitely buy a fork from Cane Creek maybe something for 29er Trail Bikes and also a DH Fork!
Thanks for feedback.
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flag benanthomp (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:16)
 I run a Double Barrel in a sit ski and it is fantastic. Ever thought your products would end up on different applications? Quad downhill bikes?
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flag karl-burkat Mod (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:21)
 photos?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:58)
 Chris: Hey Ben, thanks. We've heard about some folks doing that, pretty rad! Our focus is mainly on the bike market, but that's not to say we won't work with special projects -- we've had some interesting calls in the past few years, including some military types! We evaluate opportunities as they come, and if they make sense, anything is possible ... Cheers!
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flag benanthomp (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:30)
 Check it out - www.pinkbike.com/photo/8797270

The action shots are better, keep in mind I was still playing with my suspension set up when I was dropping the cliff vimeo.com/45172497

Also I really appreciated the for dummies tuning guide on the cane creek site makes life easy!
[Reply]
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flag nojzilla (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:30)
 hey all,
with DH head angles becoming more slack an the popularity of angle sets, do you think DH fork stanctions are up to it, will they need beefing up if the trend continues. The reason i ask your opinion is I've see more than a few still photo's of riders bottoming out or deep into the forks travel and the stanctions are flexing a HELL of a lot!
is theres such a thing as too slack?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:35)
 Chris: nojzilla, that's a tough question to answer. I'll liken it to the recent Red Bull Rampage: Guys were doing runs in practice that 2-3 years ago were their final runs! Bike and fork technology continue to push the envelope, and we're working together with manufacturers to meet the demand. "Too slack" may be a personal opinion!
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flag HarryakaDave (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:33)
 Hi Cane Creek, I've just bought an Orange Five with a CCDB fitted, this is a factory fitting, but when I go onto your site there's no option of Orange Bikes on your list of manufacturers for tuning advice, other than that your site is very helpful (except no mention on the zip-tie trick you have to use to remove the spring off a Five)
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:48)
 Holly: We are working on getting more settings in our database - and confirming them with our partners - there are shocks flying all over the world as I type. In The Lounge we will be launching New Tunes on Tuesday - guess now I REALLY just committed to that 2am idea huh? Look for them to start....in say sometime in the near future.... To make it easy you can sign up with your pinkbike account: www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge
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flag HarryakaDave (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:46)
 Cheers Holly, I signed up to it the other day so will keep my eyes on it for New Tunes, thanks for your time
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flag illuminatastigmata (Oct 17, 2012 at 23:42)
 Several times i mailed you guys at Cane Creek on more than one mailadres(tech and info for instance)
Filled in the form at the website either.....
I repeadetly forwarded this mail to the adresses more than once.
NEVER i got an answer.....about my DBAir that does not get to its full compression.
For more details you can PB me, or check your mailbox at work!
So far aftersales from CC for me fails.Big time!
For the money their products costs an answer to a simple mail would be the least.
[Reply]
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flag flatline-pro-2 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:52)
 If my bike has a very linear suspension which is better for a 2011 banshee legend. A db air or db coil I hear from looking around on sites that. Linear suspension curve isnt best with ccdb products but I rather hear directly from the source. Will Ccdb air or coil be good for a linear curve if so what shock would you recommend for the 2011 banshee legend
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:15)
 Josh: Go DBair - settings are on our Tune Finder. These settings were gathered under the watchful eyes of the awesome guys at Banshee on a little known mountain outside of Vancouver, BC - Whistler baby.
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flag kameraguy (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:42)
 Hi Cane Creek team. After seeing the VP Varial adjustable headset, I was wondering if you guys might be considering something similar (IE: an on-the-trail adjustable headset). Would be awesome to be able to dial in the head angle at any time, anywhere. Even though VP already makes this, competition is always good. Thanks!
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:07)
 Jim: The VP design is very interesting and it certainly gives us something to think about when it comes to AngleSet II. We really like the folks at VP though so we would of course have to have our own brainstorm on how to do this in a robust manner.
[Reply]
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flag ebroy (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:00)
 i have been out on a search for an awesome DJ/slope style fork and i cant find anything that matches what i would like, a 20mm threw axle 34-36 mm stanchions 80-100 travel and a tapered steerer under 5 pounds do you think you will eventually make something like this?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:53)
 Josh: see @cork
[Reply]
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flag DHOLLIE301 (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:23)
 my cane creek double barrel on my 2012 demo 8 is starting to creak quite abit like a rub sort of noise its not cumming from the links of my frame or the bolts its from the shock itself??? what could this be? and also i am wanting to set my bike up to me like my weight height riding style etc if that means sending my bike off or taking it somewhere then thats okay too whats best? i want the double barrel setting up properly and serviced and my rockshox boxxer world cup forks servicing and setting up but you will only be able to do my shock im guessing so whats best to do? idealy i would like to take my bike somewhere and get both set up together at the same time so what would you recomend or wheres best to have this done?
cheers
Ollie Smile
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:48)
 Malcolm:
Hey Ollie, the boys at TF tuned could help you out.
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flag DHOLLIE301 (Nov 10, 2012 at 13:53)
 found the problem Frown the shaft on the shock is bent at the bottom near the bottom eyelet Frown reli not happy Frown((( and yh im gonna get in contact with tf tuned cheers Big Grin
[Reply]
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flag BDKR (Oct 18, 2012 at 5:12)
 I may have gotten here too late.... We'll see. :-)

In the motorcycle world, there are lots of shocks with ride height adjustment. Why don't we see more of that on Mountain Bikes? It could go a long ways towards adjusting BB height and steering head angle.

Or is that something the frame manufacturers lobby against? LOL
[Reply]
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flag Brugles (Oct 18, 2012 at 6:15)
 I've tried suspension products from most of the companies on the market, for me there are only two I'd buy from now, BOS and Cane Creek, the attention to detail and quality of finish just seems to exceed the competition. I'd love to see CCDB forks for DH and a single crown 160mm version. I think the attention to detail and finish of BOS products is on a par with the CCDB I have on my Spicy if your forks follow the same format consider at least one set of each sold. I currently ride a Lapierre Spicy for trail with a Deville on the front and a CCDB on the rear and and an Intense M6 with a Fox 40 up front and a SToy on the rear. My DH rig is getting sold and replaced with the LTD WC YT Tues as soon as it's released. Black and gold looks sick by the way, keep with that colour scheme. Both bikes also run your headsets which must be the most easily serviceable and trouble free components on the bikes. Keep up the good work and release some prototype pics/gossip on any fork developments. Once I know the forks are on the horizon all other suspensions purchases go on hold.....
[Reply]
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flag Kmans (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:48)
 Hi, I have another Angleset question:
Would your Angleset headset fit a 2011 Scott Genius 30, and would I be able to get the full 1.5 degrees of change? I have also been told by a someone that has used it, that the headset causes an annoying knocking sound, has that been addressed? And when can we expect a new version of the Angleset to be released?
Thanks
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:53)
 Gary: Thanks for the question; Scott uses a ZS55 Bottom standard, which we do not produce for AngleSet, sorry. As for the knocking sound, proper installation is the key to AngleSets, and instructions and videos can be found on our web site.
[Reply]
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flag illuminatastigmata (Oct 18, 2012 at 0:12)
 Several times i mailed you guys at Cane Creek on more than one mailadres(tech and info for instance) Filled in the form at the website either..... I repeadetly forwarded this mail to the adresses more than once. NEVER i got an answer.....about my DBAir that does not get to its full compression. For more details you can PB me, or check your mailbox at work! So far aftersales from CC for me fails.Big time! For the money their products costs an answer to a simple mail would be the least.
[Reply]
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flag kritonh (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:41)
 Dear Cane Creek,

Congratulations for your excellent products. Excuse me for bringing linearity, progression and choosing between the air and coil once again, but what would help me choose would be the following.

On a bike with an 8.5 by 2.5 stroke shock with a 400lb/in coil I use 2mm of preload and 30% sag which yields aprox 320lb force, and I am assuming negligible internal and linkage friction. At 60% suspension depression the coil force will be 600lbs. At t full travel it will be 1000lbs.

At rest the force for both coil and air will be the same. So my question is at 65% and 100% travel , is the force of the air spring lower or higher and by what percentage accordingly. A link to a graph would be most helpful.

Thanks and Regards.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:02)
 Holly: Thanks - excellent suggestion...but a bit specific to get into here...I will let you in on a secret, we do have a Spring Force Calculator in the works.
[Reply]
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flag klamsi88 (Oct 18, 2012 at 0:08)
 Hey, I saw a lot of Demo 8 with a broken CCDB this Summer (5-6 broken Shocks which isn´t normal is it?). Can you tell me what the problem with the Demo 8 frame is that leads to a broken CCDB (always at the same position (piston rod))?

Any idea when the CCDB-Air will be available for the Demo 8 frame?

thx
[Reply]
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flag warhorse (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:04)
 Hey Cane Creek, I love the damper adjustment range on your DB shocks. Given that the adjustability is a big selling point for DB, why no adjustable bottomout control (i.e. volume and pressure as on the fox DHX RC4)? I ask because I prefer a fairly undamped setup (compression, both low and high speed) for plushness but like to have good bottom out control at end stroke for jumping. I ride lots of places and bikes but I like freeriding and downhilling on my 2012 Intense SlopeStyle 2 best. Current set up is Fox 36 float 180 in front (with angle set which I love, thx) and Fox DHX RC4 in rear at 6.5" travel. Is DB air better? Why? Thx for coming out today.
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:52)
 Josh: warhorse - We made the DBair to provide this type of bottom out control. By adjusting the air volume, you can control the bottoming resistance.

The bottom out control on any coil spring bike shock (at least those that I know about) use the reservoir as an air spring in parallel with the coil spring. For some very sound engineering reasons, this is not practical in the DBcoil.
[Reply]
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flag samblagy (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:48)
 im not as advanced as most of the people on here, most of these comments are lost on me.....my riding style is more freeridey, i ride more gaps and drops than full on downhill. i run a ccdb, im in a split mind to swich to the ccdba, i like to ride a rigid shock but would you advise to use a stronger spring something more like a 550? or get onto an air shock and just put someware a high pressure?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:58)
 Holly: DBair all the way...you can do both.
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flag samblagy (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:37)
 ooooh, thanks for that..
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flag richard01 (Oct 18, 2012 at 6:39)
 1) In other comments you say the DB has no shims to change you just have a very wide range in the valves. Since i got my DBcoil from TF tuned will they do anything to the internals? I was very happy with the shock/setup/service i had from them. I would not have found the settings on my own very easily. (i have an orange sub 5).
2) As you dont have any forks on the market yet and you have your own workshop to play in. Do any of the Cane Creek team have standard parts in their forks or have you made your own internals?
3) Also whats your view on titainium springs. Are they worth it for all strokes in terms of performance and weight loss?
4) Do you do much modeling on matlab or any other program to see how a shock responds?
[Reply]
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flag gravityhelps (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:42)
 cane creek one quick question where would i find my ccdb serial number so i can log onto your lounge? im looking for some other people's settings because im running a 400 lb spring and only 155 lbs, but i feel like i bottom too often. i dont want to compromise small bump, but ive added a few clicks hsc of your guy's base tune and i still feel that bottom. thanks for help/advice
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 18, 2012 at 12:56)
 The Serial Number is on the front side of your shock under the end eye.
[Reply]
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flag timwinterburn (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:08)
 Hi CCCC!

Can you confirm absolutely the correct dimensions, angles etc for the headset in a 2008 Specialized EnduroSL S-works Carbon frame? Specialized UK, my LBS and the internet all seem to have differing opinions! Since it's one of yours, you would seem to be the guys to ask :-) ! Any help much appreciated! Tim
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:42)
 Jim: The 2008 Enduro should be a standard IS42 top ("Campy spec") with a recessed (modified/not standard) IS52 bottom. The bottom assembly will utilize pretty much any 52mm bearing but the bearing will sit much deeper in the headtube than is normal. If you're using a Specialized "Future Shock" with a molded-in crown race, you'll need to drop in a 52mm bearing with 45 degree chamfers on the ID and OD. If you're using a "regular" fork, you can use a standard IS52/40 (or IS52/30) lower headset with an adapter that is available from Specialized.
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flag timwinterburn (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:58)
 Thanks guys - its for a friend's bike I recently rebuilt - he's running the E150 dual-crown future shock still, but it doesn't have a molded in crown race - it has a split ring. Since swapping the bearings for new ones, according to the ones sold to me by my LBS (a Spesh dealer who for some reason refused to order in the bearings from Spesh UK for me, and instead sold me a campy standard one), there is a slight amount of movement/play in the headset. The dimensions of the new one, by eye, were slightly different from the ones I removed (which were toast!) - hence my real concern. Only one of the two bearing cartridges that came out of the frame had any writing on it - hence the problem!

From your answer, am I to understand that I actually need to buy two distinct, different, bearings that aren't actually available in one single headset? I'm guessing I have the correct top, but that the bottom might be wrong. My understanding is that the headset was one of "yours"; if so, can you point me at the right one?

No worries at all if this is all too complex to deal with here - quite understand :-) ! Thanks for the answer - greatly appreciated!
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:49)
 Jim: Well, this is getting pretty specific and complicated so the best thing would be to call our CS team and get things straightened out. But yes, in essence you'll need to split your headset spec up into top and bottom fitments. This makes life much easier in the age of tapered.
[Reply]
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flag endlesstrailz (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:00)
 I would like to fit a CCDB Air shock on my 2013 Specialized Demo 8 Frame. I've had great experience with the coil on my '12 frame and I want to make the bike lighter and feel more progressive with the Air shock. Do you think I will need to modify my link at the back of the bike? I know the link is designed to work with CCDB's and Fox RC4's, but the vivid air requires it to be slightly modified. Will this be the case with the CCDB Air?

Alex
[Reply]
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flag intense190808 (Oct 24, 2012 at 14:11)
 Hi CaneCreek, I am ready to purchase a CCDBAir for my V10 Carbon. you have mentioned in one of the post above regarding the redsign on the air can to have high flow inner air can to minimize to crazy ramp-up toward the end stroke. Has this been incorporated in the newer CCDBAir shock currently in the bike shop? If not, who do I tell whether of not the BBAir I purchase has this incorporated into it. Perhaps by the S/N or something else? Thanks
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flag bayrak Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:37)
 What type of Education do most "Suspension Engineers" have? Mechanical engineering? Also, how does one get into the industry of making/ designing suspension products for the mountain bike industry?
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:05)
 Holly: The blanket answer is Mechanical Engineering. But it appears that Electrical Engineering is becoming increasingly important. As for entry to our industry as an engineer - refer to Josh's 3 Step program he provided for Wilm87.
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flag cork (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:24)
 It's very interesting that you'd include electrical engineering with mechanical engineering. Should we be expecting something from CC that uses batteries? Do tell!
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:38)
 Josh, No, we are going solar
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flag TARPONHUNTER (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:35)
 I recently bought a ccdb coil for my nomad with the push link and unfortunately it did not fit the push adapter had to go with a fox still have my ccdb hoping that you guys would have some way to make the ccdb work with the push link
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:56)
 Jim: Sounds like you just got the wrong hardware with your shock. Give us a call and we'll sort it out.
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flag FBM-BMX (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:42)
 I have been toying with the idea of fitting a DBAir to my yeti SB66, done the usual forum scouting, have yielded mixed feedback.

The forum consensus is that the DBAir spring is too progressive for the essentially linear leverage rate found on the SB66. Or this to do more with the comparatively long stroke used on the SB66?

Is the DBAir spring more progressive than the typical offerings from rockshox and fox? I find my XV fox air can with large air can spacer pretty ideal.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:25)
 Josh: The DBair can be setup to be similar in progressivity to other shocks. We've had great feedback on DBair'ed SB66's. Linear leverage is no problem for the DBair.... it likes it... Have you ever found a consensus on a forum?
  • + 1
flag FBM-BMX (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:48)
 Josh, thank you very much for the reply. Yep, forums aren't the best. Great to hear, loks like im going to be running a DBair eventually then.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag spudlord (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:12)
 I have an older CCDB (2008?) with screwdriver flats to adjust the low speed settings on my shock, also the shock is completely black instead of partially gold. How does this compare to the current generation of CCDB and would it be worth me upgrading the valves (might have already been done but I'm unsure, how can you tell?). This will be for a 2012 nuke proof mega
  • + 1
flag spudlord (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:41)
 Also what would be a good base tune for this shock on this bike?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:06)
 Malcolm:

The updated valving change would give you more adjustment range when tuning the shock. Greater low speed sensitivity. To identify the updated low speed adjusters have the phillips marking instead of the flat screw driver slot.

Sorry I don't have a base tune for your model yet. I'm working on it with the CRC boys. Stay Tuned....
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Rockurshoxoff95 (Oct 20, 2012 at 20:40)
 Hey Cane creek, i've tried out both of your rear shocks and love them, i'm thinking of possibly getting one for my 2013 bike which will be a 2013 scott gambler, i'm wondering which shock (coil or air) is best when i'm riding rouch rocky terrain every day of the season (literally everyday since i live right beside the mountain) and it has to be a 10.5 long because the gambler requires that length of shock. any suggestions and do u guys make both shocks in that length ?

thanks

Nick
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag tacktaRIDESyeti (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:05)
 Not really sure whether this question has been answered already though, I'm new to owning the CCDB and very impressed with it so far, but is there any way to avoid the shock rub on the black part of the body? Or it isn't a great concern, and shouldn't worry about it? Thanks
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:17)
 Josh: see @pz3z

It isn't a functional concern, the black sleeve is there to protect the shock from any damage. Worry not...
  • + 1
flag f1234k (Oct 17, 2012 at 18:29)
 If you want to see that sexy gold body without doing damage to it, try these thrust bearings with their ti spring:
www.k9industries.com

I use the Obtainium ones, but it is the same thing and Obtainium don't exist any more from what I know. You might still get a small rub on occasion, but I ran for 2 years with only some really minimal rub. I now believe that happened because I didn't clean the thrust bearings often enough and they got sticky.

You'll need to warm up the black sleeve with a hair-dryer or heat gun to get it off, it's on tight.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Lexatron14 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:34)
 I want a DB Air extremely bad for my 2011 specialized enduro comp (or if I got the new 2013 version of the enduro comp, to put one on right away!), but I am unsure about how it would attach to the linkage. On the 2013 s-works there appears to be a custom DB Air that attaches directly into the end of the shock. Do I need this custom shock through specialized? or can I buy a stock shock and make it work? Thank you very much.
  • + 5
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:45)
 Josh: We are working on DBairs for 2010-2012 Enduros (all flavors), so sit tight on that unless you want to go ahead and upgrade to the 2013 anyway. You can't use a standard DBair on any Enduro, the linkage interfaces require special end eyes.
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:47)
 Malcolm: We've been working with Specialized to accommodate their eyelets for several different models, especially for 2013. At this time we do not have an eyelet for the 2011 Enduro line; however, it's in the works. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag Cyphereza (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:56)
 I've been waiting for this news! But I am more interested in the DB Coil, will it be available for Spez Enduro?
  • + 1
flag Lexatron14 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:56)
 Josh and Malcolm, thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question! You guys were extremely helpful and have answered something I have been wondering about for months now! Thanks again!
  • + 1
flag ajcroft (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:27)
 Ahh perfect. I was going to ask the same question. I cant wait. I have a 2012 Enduro EVO and I would love a DB Air on mine!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:28)
 Josh: Cyphereza - DBcoil on the Enduro is not in the cards... however, the DBcoil comes with the 2013 Enduro EVO
  • + 2
flag martino (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:52)
 This is fantastic news! I ride a 2011 Enduro and my only problem with it is the shock... Not so much the function but more the worry of what to do if it blew up. If I could get a CC DBA to fit, I could run that as my regular shock and keep the RP23 as a spare. Sweet… problem solved!

Make it happen soon please!!
  • + 1
flag frango (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:43)
 I think I am on the same wagon... I would like to get DB Air for my current and new Glory (2010 and/or 2013) frame. The frame uses 15mm axle to hold bottom end of the shock. It goes through bare shock eyelet (w/o bushing). Can you give more precise date of the release of the specific DB Air version?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:18)
 Josh: see @SundayVans
  • + 1
flag frango (Oct 17, 2012 at 22:42)
 Thx Josh, Cheers!
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  • + 1
flag JonnyNorthshore (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:36)
 Soo cool to see CC talking to the people!!! I've got a CC 110 headset and CCDB coil shock on my Orange 224 evo, both superb products. The shock changed the bike for the better even more than I'd hoped :-) Do you have any tips for getting the best out of the shock on this frame? I run my rebound pretty slow, seems to work well. Also seemed to get a lot of pedal bob when I first got it but I've almost got that sorted now. I've found that I need to run a slightly heavier spring than what would be recommended on most shock/spring calculators, is that normal?
Cheers
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:47)
 Eric: Hey Jonny, have you joined our Lounge yet? The Lounge Lizard community is growing each day, and it's there you can share tunes and tips: www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge. Also check back for New Tune Tuesdays, coming soon ...
[Reply]
  • + 4
flag kebell (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:43)
 Did you employ your design engineer purely on the basis that he is the frontman of The Doors?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:50)
 Holly: Is there a better reason?
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  • + 1
flag inshane-superheros (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:10)
 cork(8 hours ago)

An air sprung trail fork with a 20mm thru-axle that offers the same adjustments as your rear shocks, please. No funny three-level damper adjustments that aren't required, no complicated travel adjustment feature, and a competitive weight. Damping in a closed cartridge (or sealed within the stanchion tube) so that the lowers can be dropped for a cleaning and fresh lube without having to jump into doing a damper service. Plenty of low-speed compression damping range.

This guys post is right on!!!! This is exactly what we need.

My question is as follows. I currently ride a Santa Cruz Driver8. Would the DB Air and the DB Coil work well with my rear suspension style? Do you guys have any idea what leverage ratio the Driver8 is Also, if I upgraded to a new Santa Cruz v10 carbon would your shocks work awesome on that frame aswell? Is the leverage ratio the same as the Driver8?
Thanks so much for your help!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Willie1 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:10)
 I have two questions:

1. have a 222mm e2e CCDB coil. I have a newer bike that needs a 216mm e2e. Can I use a top out spacer with the DB design, as I used to do with WP and Showa moto shocks, or is there a design limitation that prevents this?

Secondly, an AM air fork with internally adjustible travel from 180-140mm in 10mm increments. 34-38mm stanchions and 650b compatible. I am using 650b on my Mojo SL and love it.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:29)
 Jim: You actually can do it - that is how we make our 216mm shock. You will need to send it to a service center - Norco or SuspensionWerx in Canada to have the conversion made.
  • + 1
flag Willie1 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:36)
 I have worked on my own shocks and have revalved shocks in the past. I use the local shop to recharge only. What oil do you recommend and what is the nitrogen pressure? Can I buy the spacer from you, or do I have to make my own?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:11)
 Josh: I recommend you use a service center!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag thegirthquake (Oct 29, 2012 at 15:04)
 Hi I have a question. Many forks today are have internal adjustments for height using spacers so that people can fine tune their ride. I was wondering is it possible to make a shock that is internally adjustable for height? It would be really nice to be able to dial my bb height and head angle by dropping my shock a little.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Willm87 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:20)
 With the double barrel damper providing a massive range of adjustment from standard do you ever create custom valving setups for specific riders, frames or even yourselves? Do you feel that there is any fork manufacturer that compliments your shocks the best? And finally I'm currently doing a degree in mechanical engineering and would like to get into the bike industryz any advice? Thanks for your time!
  • + 9
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:34)
 Josh: to answer each question:
1) We strive to create a "damping envelope" that allows riders to achieve an ideal tune for their bike of choice from a single damper setup. Having said that, do we do such things for ourselves? Of course. It would be a disservice to all the riders out there if we were not constantly testing/refining/evaluating to modify these internals as we continue to progress our designs.
2) I'm taking the 5th on the fork suggestion question
3) any advice for getting into the bike industry as an engineer - 1) learn to live off top ramen and white rice 2) learn to accept bike parts in lieu of actual money 3) place a value on riding at lunch higher than actually eating lunch
  • + 1
flag Willm87 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:05)
 Cheers for the response, might have to try and talk to the companies around here! Got to say love the DBAir i've got on my Nukeproof Mega, totally changed the bike for the better and it's not even totally dialled yet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag juicyJ (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:37)
 Hey guys, I have 2012 Scott voltage that is paired up with a marz 66 fork. My problem is I'm running a zero stack headset and the spring preload knob on the top of the fork won't pass under my down tube, say for barspins or ex-ups. In order for this to happen I would need a new headset, prob is it will make an already slack frame more slack. I need maybe 3-4mm extra stack height. What would you recommend?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:51)
 Gary: So if that's the ZS49|ZS49/30 configuration we show in our Headset FitFinder, then you can run a ZS49|EC49 AngleSet with a /30 reducer crown race to reel in the angle change. Maybe 0.5 degrees steeper would offset? Before you buy, measure the bottom of that head-tube though -- many Scott bikes are ZS55, which we do not support with AngleSet.
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag Xj1998 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:23)
 Can you guys get into basics behind piston design. Specifically, how are shimstacks arrived at? Practical experience or analysis (CFD, system dynamics etc) what is your strategy for developing a damper from the ground up?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:35)
 Josh: Shim stacks are only one of several things that dictate the damping in our Double Barrel design. We use a combination of analysis and practical experience. System dynamics is obviously critical (I recommend Ogata's textbook).

Our strategy for making a damper from the ground up - make the radest dampers available.
  • + 1
flag Xj1998 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:55)
 Ogata is god, all we got for years in school. Haha.

I guess specifically I have always wondered what your starting point is, and how best to arrive at it. Do you assume an average weight of rider and trail conditions or do you say I have a spring/mass/damper system and I want it X% over damped, under damped, critically damped etc.
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:49)
 Josh: trade secrets are very expensive. You'll need a briefcase full of bills for me to have this discussion.
  • + 1
flag srjacobs (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:37)
 Priceless response.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag bmdtech (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:22)
 I have a 2011 Mongoose Khyber 1.5 head tube running with a tapered Totem Air fork. Currently I have a standard headset the is an external cup design adding about 1 CM to the stack height. My Bottom bracket rides a bit high at 14.25 and I would like to get an angleset that has a .5 degree slacker with a zero stack bottom cup option to drop that stack height and bottom bracket height. I have been searching around and cant find a Zero stack bottom cup option in 1.5 for tapered forks. Am I missing something?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:26)
 Gary: bmdtech, tapered forks require the 52mm bearing, which means an external cup bottom on AngleSets, sorry -- no Zero Stack option there.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:52)
 What oil cST or what is the Ohlins Oil part number that is the the factory shock oil or recommended oil for the Double Barrel Coil? I ask this, as I haven't been able to get a confident answer from the 2 of the recommended service centers, I have called. Thanks.
  • + 5
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:00)
 Josh: The shock oil we use is 11cST@40deg C. Another great option for the DBcoil and DBair is Motul VI400. It is a bit easier to get.
  • + 3
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:14)
 Awesome! Thanks Josh, Pink Bike and Cane Creek. This was way easier!
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag drachmas (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:06)
 just a short question. I have a specialized demo 7 2009 and I'm out of headsets. Could you please exact which headsets I am going to buy? I have boxxer team 200mm in front (tapered - semi integrated). Thanks Smile
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:48)
 Jim: You need a ZS49/28.6|ZS49/30. I suggest a 110 for that bike!

This info, as well as a HUGE amount of other headset fitment info is available on our Headset Fit Finder: canecreek.com/headset-finder
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag dungeonbeast (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:20)
 Cane Creek:
I had a Double Barrel on my Demo this past summer, and will also have one on my new Guerrilla Gravity when its built. I loved how it rode, but was a bit saddened when I experienced what appears to be a common occurrence of the spring rubbing on the shock body. At minimal it was a noise annoyance, and at most, you could actually feel it somewhat. For a product that is billed as top-of-the-heap performance, why is there no solution for this yet? I was reassured it wouldn't affect the shock's safety, but could you not just make replacement springs with a slightly larger I.D.?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:36)
 Malcolm: Thanks for the question. We're constrained due to the configuration with the reservoir -- increasing the ID will increase the OD, and we'd run into interference with the backside of the reservoir. Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down.
  • + 1
flag Scythe888 (Oct 17, 2012 at 22:20)
 Vivid coil works, just got to center it. With preload the spring does'nt move around.
[Reply]
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flag ktm87 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:05)
 I don't know if this was already asked as there are 500 comments and can't go through all of them right now, so sorry if it was already asked. But do you guys plan on making a rear shock in a shorter eye to eye lengths? I have an intense spider and would love to try a ccdba, but the e2e is 6.5 and I believe the shortest you make is a 7.5.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:17)
 Jim: We don't make anything that short yet!
  • + 1
flag ktm87 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:40)
 Well I'm willing to test one for you if you ever need help testing!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ALuv4Fun (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:55)
 I have a 2011 Specialized Enduro Expert with a Fox Vanilla RC2 36 with 160mm travel fork. I would like to know if Cane Creek offers an Angleset or any other headset that will offer me the ability to steepen the head angle from the stock 66.5 degree one. I have a difficult time keeping the front wheel planted in the turns. I have a motocross background and am very familiar with suspension setting manipulation to help this situation but nothing seems to help. My local bike shops have never seen an Enduro before so I speak directly with Specialized about this problem and not even they are able to offer any solutions that address my problem. Do you have any advice about this? That is, if you don't offer a headset that will address my problem.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:04)
 Holly: Sorry, but no. This bike uses integrated headsets which cannot accept an AngleSet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag richwantsout Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:00)
 I have a question about the air volume spacers on the double barrel air. When do you know to use them or not, could you guys maybe include their use in the tune lounge somehow or maybe give some kind of tutorial on how and why to use them.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:20)
 Chris: Thanks richwantsout, great suggestion. We've taken some of this info on the road to dealers via the Park Tool Summit program here in the U.S., and will add it to the to-do list for the Tech Section of our web site. Cheers!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag cikudh (Oct 18, 2012 at 19:35)
 Dear PB Editors Mr.Brule, Mr.Richard, Mr.Mikey,
WC season is off, and we need cool articles
1. Component review esp. shocks & forks which are very cool.
2. WC rider / freerider interview
3. New Bikes / WC team sneak peak
4. Riding & vacation stuff .. epic photos

THANK YOU SO MUCH Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ISOtuned (Oct 17, 2012 at 15:58)
 In regards to parabolic valves, can you better explain why these designs are better than traditional designs using speed sensitive shims/orfice based principles. Also can you please elaborate on the defencieces. Because there are known inherit issues and would like your take on that. To conclude I have seen amazing shock dynos on newer dual speed , dual port shim based dampers , what is your thought on these.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:08)
 I currently have an Ibis Mojo HD with a CCDB coil. Freeriding - it feels great and it does not bottom out using the base settings for that frame. My question is what will be the most significant difference in feel with the CCDB Air with the same sag settings and using the recommended base settings?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:22)
 Josh: Empty403 - If you switch to a DBair, at the stock air volume and settings with the same sag as you run with the DBcoil, the DBair will feel more progressive (harder to get to the bottom of the shock) and slightly less sensitive. However, as you already know, you won't stay at base settings for long, so you can tune to suit your style with either DB shock.
  • + 1
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:43)
 Are you referring to the Mojo or the Mojo HD? I have the HD version. Cane Creek DB Coil Base Tune database does have a tune on the Mojo HD.
So your saying both shocks work, but the Air will be more balanced? When you say "balanced" - does that mean all the adjustments are closer to the middle of its range?
I guess I have to just try it out to feel what you guys are feeling.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:50)
 Jim: My recommendation would be try before you buy. The coil is always going to be more sensitive and more linear. Both shock will work but the air will feel more, well, "air-y". If you're just freeriding/descending you'll probably be more happy with the coil feel while if you pedal uphill at all the air will probably suit your needs. That said, the shocks are so adjustable that you can get an air to feel a lot like a coil and vice versa. For your riding style though it sounds like the coil is a good call as long as you're happy with the performance.
  • + 1
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:50)
 "Try before you buy"? Haha, I guess that means you are offering a loaner CCDB Air to me? Message me on my Pinkbike account!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ThePriory1978 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:09)
 I would like to slacken the head angle on my Canyon Nerve AM 2012 model. It is fitted with the standard Fox Talas Tapered fork. I have tried your Headset Fit Finder but am unsure of the Steerer-Tube Diameter and Crown Race Seat Diameter to get the correct model.
Which model angleset do i require or how to measure the forks details to get the right model? Many thanks.
  • + 1
flag ThePriory1978 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:11)
 On the same subject my current headset has zero stack height. I dont have a lot of steerer tube so need to keep this in consideration.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:39)
 Chris: Thanks for the question. The Canyon Nerve is set up with an Integrated (IS) Bottom, which means the bearing chamfer is molded into the head-tube. As such, there is not an AngleSet available that will help you slacken the angle -- AngleSet headsets require cups both Top and Bottom to work.
  • - 1
flag WAKIdesigns (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:25)
 Just get rid of that crap man, Canyon is a "Burn after riding" frame. I think if you gave it to Joe Graney for a spon he would puke his guts out, sorry...
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ScandiumRider (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:13)
 Hello Cane Creek!

As someone who is keen to get into suspension setup and service, can you recommend a good starting point for learning what I need to know?

I currently work at an LBS in Vancouver, not as a mechanic, but I'm comfortable overhauling suspension components on my own bikes. My eventual goal is to offer setup, tuning and overhaul services to people. I've picked up some books and looked at UBI courses, am I on the right path? Any tips, or things to concentrate on learning?

Thanks for your help and taking the time today to do this.

PINKBIKE: More of these please! This is awesome!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:24)
 Holly: You are certainly on the right path already - there are excellent books available and it doesn't hurt to have a strong understanding of physics (yep, they told me to type that). Our advice, continue the course and make sure our Tuning Field Guide is in your library. www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
  • + 1
flag ScandiumRider (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:36)
 Thanks, Holly.
[Reply]
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flag bikebert (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:14)
 1) On Cane Creek Base Tunes website for CCDB [coil] there is a difference between settings for 2012 and 2013 Knolly Chilcotin. Why?

2) Choosing the correct spring rate for Chilcotin frame. I weigh 215-220 lbs ready to ride. When I entered all data in the "fit finder" on Cane Creek website I came up with suggested 550 lb/in spring rate. However, on Knolly website suggested spring rate for my weight is 450 lb/in. There is quite a discrepancy between these two rates. Please, give us some advice about this.

3) I have read about some problem with shock mounting hardware:
forums.mtbr.com/9403022-post6.html
Is this issue sorted out yet?

4) Keep up the good work! Love your products and customer service! Thank you!
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:59)
 Josh:
1) Good catch. There should not be a difference, since the 2012-2013 Chili's are the same. We have corrected our website. I literally just got off the phone with Knolly to make sure we had this sorted. We spent quite a bit of time with Knolly in the development of the DBair (even spent a day in the snow on Seymour together), so there were a lot of various settings going around. Looks like we goofed the entry of the 2012.
2) On spring rate- that is a big difference. I'll need to look into this. Until then, Knolly knows their bikes and the CCDB, so it would be hard for me not to go with their suggestion over our analytical model.
3) Hardware - I think if you look through enough forums you'll find a problem with everything! For people who have had trouble we've worked with them to resolve any issues. Please feel free to give us a call if you have a specific issue.
4) fist-bump to you sir!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Nov 1, 2012 at 13:14)
 Josh: Hey I'm back - I looked into this and turns out Knolly just updated their website (knollybikes.com/bikes/chilcotin), and now suggest a 500lb spring. Our spring calculator gives 550lb. So, we vary by 50lb/in (10%).

There is obviously still a difference, but it is within 1 spring rate. Our spring rate calculator is based on an average leverage ratio (as it is for all bikes) and is thus simply a suggested starting point. So if/when an OEM suggests a specific spring rate for a given rider weight on a given model, we will always yield to that since it takes into consideration the specifics of that bike's kinematics. We recommend you to follow their lead.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Rucker10 (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:36)
 I'm a toolmaker apprentice in the Northwest and I'm interested in moving into the bicycle industry when I finish my apprenticeship. Does your company employ toolmakers? If so, what particular skill-sets do you seek in your machinists/toolmakers?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag p3borick (Oct 18, 2012 at 16:50)
 I'm a huge fan of you guys products and run a double barrel on my bike right now I'm looking at getting a db air for a bike I'm building up and I want all the benefits of an air shock but I'm still not to sure how it will compare to just a coil double barrel do you have any sort of suggestions?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Colin-B (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:58)
 Another angleset question here: Do you guys offer an angleset that would fit a 2011 Lapierre Spicy with a Fox Float 160 on it and if so which one? I looked into this before but I keep getting different answers everywhere I look. Thanks
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:12)
 Chris: According to our Headset FitFinder at www.canecreek.com/headset-finder, you'd be looking for the ZS44|EC56 Angleset, with either a /30 crown race (straight steerer) or /40 (tapered). Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 4
flag Dtomaso (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:01)
 Hi Cane Creek
I just wonder what hardware I need to mount
your double barrel Air shock to my nukeproof scalp frame?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:43)
 Chris: Have you visited our Suspension FitFinder? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/double-barrel/fit-finder

For the Scalp, it looks like 22.2x8 and 24.0x8. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag Dtomaso (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:48)
 Thanks alot for your answere! :-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag z-man (Oct 19, 2012 at 9:10)
 Why does the CCDB use such a small shaft?
Doesnt a small shaft have less oil displacement in a shock, thus not having as high flow through the valving as most coilovers?
Or since the ccdb isnt a mono-tube shock, does it work on a different set of principles?
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  • + 1
flag sup3rc0w (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:11)
 Hi Pleasant CCC folk thanks for the opportunity to ask you questions like this on an open forum

A double barrelled question for you (see what I did there)

* Is there such a thing as a bike specific tune for the double barrel?

** Has there ever before been a bike specific tune on any of the DBs?

The reason I ask this, is because I have, from the Horses mouth (Malcolm) heard that there's no (in my case) a Makulu specific tune.
This has however sparked debate on my local hill, as some friends have been told by people like Dave Garland (who was the CRC lead mechanic at the time) that the DB can in fact be shimmed, if the shock does not cater for the bike, or more to the point - the rider's range.

Forums also tend to be a double edged sword in this regard, because some feverishly argue that there are DB "tunes" and others say there aren't.

It would be great if you could answer this question in public and make an ed to it all Smile

Regards
  • + 6
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:10)
 Malcolm: Great Question!
Correct we have not had a one-off shim stack tune for a specific bike model. We do work with specific bike manufactures to arrive at a tune externally, using the adjusters and lot of testing back and forth.The DB is different with it's vast tuning range, this allows us to work from the outside towards the ideal tuning range.
Now I have heard of team techs trying different shim stacks etc. What happens when you do this, you take away from the shock's overall adjustment range and sensitivity. It's not that we haven't tried various shim stack models in house. Lets say we build shocks with shim stacks in a different manner, knowing that this would take away from the over all range. We would end up with something like an A, B and C tune range. Three shock models? We would rather have all of those tuning ranges in one shock. Then you be the tuner using the adjusters on your own terms your own trail.
  • + 1
flag sup3rc0w (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:03)
 Thanks Malcolm, much appreciated.
  • + 1
flag Scythe888 (Oct 17, 2012 at 22:29)
 I thought there was a Makulu tune, in the early years. The only difference was a bigger piggy back or something like that. But now with the current DB you addressed that and there is no frame specific tune.
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  • + 1
flag dhjunke (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:56)
 Hey CC Staff, I have an Intense M9(w/ CCDB Coil) that's a year old and I try and ride it a couple times a month. Now with that much seat time and 3 Mammoth trips, When should I get the shock rebuilt with seals, oil, etc??
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:02)
 Eric: We recommend a full service from one of our Authorized Service Centers at least once a year. (DB Air seal service 2x/year, damper yearly.) They'll get your CCDB running like butter ...
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  • + 1
flag wonkle (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:50)
 Not sure if it has been asked before a I skimmed to the comments box so here goes.
What made you come up with your CCDB idea and were there many technical issues/problems in designing and creating the shock.

Cheers
James
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:35)
 Josh: Wonkle - uh oh, pandora's box just opened, but great question.

When Cane Creek decided to enter the oil-damped shock market (10 years ago now) a thorough search was done to identify technologies with potential in the bicycle world. The twin tube style damper was selected as the most promising platform, which was a dice-roll, but turned out to be a great decision. Twin tube style damping, as integrated in the Double Barrel shocks brings the tunability to the rider - you control your tuning destiny. Without getting sales-pitchy, it also does so in a way that is accessible. The 4 damping adjustments are independent, so you can tune LSC without affecting HSC, LSR without affecting LSC, etc. While we underestimated the difficulty in re-educating an entire market to spread this gospel, we seemed to have turned the corner. Many here on Pinkbike are as good at tuning as we are (or better) and can take that ability right to the trail on a DB. We have also created a Tuning Field Guide (to simplify the tuning process), as well as "Base Tunes" so the starting point is closer to the finishing point ( to make the tuning process faster). There are some other more technical reasons for the choice to adopt the twin tube damping structure: smaller diameter damper shafts, better cavitation resistance, less hysteresis in the damping curves.

Were there any technical issues/problems early on? Oh man, I'll say. It is a pretty complicated assembly that requires many high tolerance parts that all must coexist in a very small volume. Is was fraught with issues, but this is to be expected. We pretty much know that we will makes mistakes on the first protos... to quote Donald Rumsfeld, "there are unknown unknowns"
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  • + 1
flag jamieridesbikes (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:13)
 Any chance of a simple entry level rear air shock in the future? Prefefably for those on a budget...? It would be good to see more adjustable shocks at the bottom of the price range Smile
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:41)
 Chris: Thanks for the suggestion!
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flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:41)
 Holly: Thanks for your question Jamie, at this point our focus is on premium level suspension.
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flag kev1n (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:35)
 How does te ccdb air hold up to heat? Xgusion uses a super thin can, rockshox has the hot rod, how do you guys do it?
Also could you guys tell me what headset fits into a 2012 specialized p.2 cro-mo frame?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:47)
 Josh: It does quite well, just like the DBcoil. How do we do it? From a fundamental design directive. Damping in both DBcoil and DBair is primarily handled in the cylinderhead (the part with the adjusters) which is a very effective part for exchanging heat to the atmosphere. Also, the since the air can (an excellent insulator) does not surround the primary heat source in the DBs, the difference in fade is relatively small between the DBcoil and the DBair.

On the 2012 P.2 - That little guy takes an IS42/28.6|IS42/30. Info also available on our headset fit finder: www.canecreek.com/headset-finder
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flag a-r-c (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:36)
 Been riding db coils since 2008, bought a new 2013 giant trance x29er, would love to run a dbair on it. Will it fit, looks kinda tight. Could you run the piggy back on a remote hose?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:29)
 Josh: We'll have to look into this one...

On the remote hose - we don't have any plans to do this
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  • + 1
flag stevehayes (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:40)
 I have one of your angle sets for my DH bike, and I love it! The only thing is I find it is quite noisy (Creaking etc.). Is there any way of combating this, apart from greasing it up? (Installation tips maybe?)
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:56)
 Chris: Correct installation of AngleSet is key, as you have guessed. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
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  • + 1
flag HawaiiMTB808 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:09)
 I need help to adjust my Shock. I have the 7in travel shock and i have it on my freeride bike. I weigh roughly 175 and id like to soften the compression some. Any suggestions on amount of clicks and whatnot?
  • - 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:27)
 Josh: whoa, whoa, easy on the details!

Our Tuning Field Guide was made for you - www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:30)
 Chris: Hawaii, it depends on which bike you're talking about. Have you checked out our recommended settings on the web site, or become a Lounge Lizard? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension
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  • + 1
flag Parabellum Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:00)
 I love that you guys have a "base tunes" section on your site, but there's no info in it for the Knolly Podium - either the new 2012 version or the older model. Any chance we might get some soon?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:26)
 Josh: 100% chance, for both DBcoil and DBair
  • + 1
flag Parabellum Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:04)
 Awesome! How soon?
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  • + 2
flag pz3z (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:51)
 what measures have you guys taken to stop the coil form rubbing on the shock body of the CCDB (coil)?
Is this something that I just have to get used to?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:26)
 Malcolm:
Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down.
  • + 1
flag pz3z (Oct 22, 2012 at 7:10)
 I don't believe this will resolve the problem. It seems like the ID (Inside Diameter) of the spring is too close to the OD (Outside Diameter) of the shock body.
So far, solutions to this problem that I've seen on the hill are - a light layer of grease on the plastic shock body casing every 3-4 hard rides, -remove the casing all together and risk mangling those beautiful gold threads, or ride with music loud enough to drown out that horrible used mattress squeak that the shock generates.

Malcom?
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  • + 2
flag bebemonk4ever (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:57)
 cane creek do you have any pictures of a double barrel cut in half... i know its almost a crime to do it... lol but do you have it?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:06)
 Jim: check google for pictures, here's a link to our friends down the mountain: www.bike198.com/look-cane-creek-db-air-rear-mtb/cane-creek-db-air-cutaway
  • + 1
flag bebemonk4ever (Oct 19, 2012 at 10:50)
 can i purpose something that might help you? its like on air shock it has no end travel bumper... so a few people have a few problems in having the right sag without bottoming out... dont you think that adding a bumper like in common spring shock would help to prevent this bottoming out issue? so like that it could be 33% sag with no issue of bottoming out...
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  • + 1
flag secondtimeuser (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:36)
 I may be changing frame soon which has a different Eye-to-Eye measurement than my current frame. Is it possible to get the shaft changed in my DB Coil to make for a longer Eye-to-Eye, or will I need a whole new shock?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:42)
 Chris: The mechanics of changing shaft sizes make it such that it's cost-prohibitive, and a change-over is basically a whole new shock -- I'm afraid you will need to purchase a new one. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag secondtimeuser (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:22)
 There's a shame. Thanks anyway! Smile
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:50)
 Josh: secondtimeuser - give Malcolm a call (800.234.2725) - there are some sizes that are easier to change.
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  • + 1
flag erikbrickell (Oct 17, 2012 at 18:43)
 Cane Creek. Will you guys ever produce a fork? if so how much would it be? Also, I have a Kona stinky TL 2011, Is there a DB air shock that would fit it? Would love to get a response.
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  • + 1
flag deadatbirth (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:52)
 how can i get full travel out of my DB Air on my Intense M9? ive found the main seal doesnt go to 3" on the shaft. should i back out the HSC? is there a smaller volume sleeve available?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:29)
 Josh: Please give us a call - 800.234.2725
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  • + 1
flag madmax650 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:03)
 Any plans to make an Angleset that is compatible with cannondale system integration head tubes? I own a 2009 cannondale rize and have always wondered about playing with geometry numbers on my bike. Thanks
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:17)
 Eric: madmax, if that's the 49.5mm head-tube bore (which I I think it is), you're good with a ZS49|ZS49 AngleSet and a 1-1/8" straight-steerer fork. We've done that conversion a couple of times on Cannondales (including a ghetto 69er), and as long as you install it properly, the AngleSet works great. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag madmax650 (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:15)
 So I've tried that size before with a 40 series headset but ended up with a paperweight. The ID of the canondale ht is 1.56" I've read, so is that a no then? What models were those cannondales by chance if you have that info?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:23)
 Eric: In general, pre-2010 were 49.5mm and since then they've gone to 50.5mm; you need to measure without any cups in there. If the 40-Series didn't fit (was it too small?) then the AngleSet won't either.
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  • + 1
flag trueeast (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:46)
 Is it normal for oil to come out where my compression and rebound screws are on my DB? When I first set up my shock on my demo and added compression and rebound some oil came out from where the screws screw into. Thanks.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:02)
 Malcolm:
Where is the leak from?
At times we can have an oring burp when the High speed adjuster is turned but this is not a leak of all fluid it’s more like a drop of oil. This can look worse if the shock is warm from riding, the grease we use to build the shock is also mixed in the adjuster threads and this can run down the shock. This can look like a lot of oil if the shock is warm or hot from riding – Think oil in a hot pan. The shock is usually fine.
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  • + 2
flag ZachTacey (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:20)
 What are the differences between the DB Air and the DB coil as far as how they handle and what types of riding they are good for?
  • + 1
flag Joeypalmer (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:49)
 I am curious about the same thing. At Rampage a lot of guys running air shocks. What is the advantage? More specifically, should someone who rides a Demo 8 II such as myself ever be considering going to DB Air?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:11)
 Josh: Man, I could go dissertation style on this one... must refrain...
The DBcoil is the preferred choice for DH racing and any situation where traction is of paramount importance. Most bikes created to excel in these situations have progressive suspension kinematics and thus play well with the DBcoil.
The DBair, while perfectly race worthy, can also be setup to be really playful. This can be more fun (IMHO) for park riding. Also, any bike that is not significantly progressive in leverage ratio, should use the DBair.

As far as Rampage - Doerfling and Buehler just prefer the DBair. It would be hard to conclude much from that for applicability though. When was the last time you dropped 50ft in a tank top?

On the DBair for the Demo 8 - We ride 'em this way, but not quite ready for primetime.
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  • + 1
flag arran11 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:54)
 hi cane creek Smile i have a cane creek double barrel on my intense m6, the ccdb i have is silver with a metalic red piggy back ? pics on my profile ! my question is.... is it a prototype?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:22)
 Josh: Where did you obtain said shock? Please contact Malcolm at Cane Creek for a replacement - 800-234-2725

This shock if not sent back immediately will result in perpetual impotence.
  • + 1
flag arran11 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:30)
 are you having a laugth ?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:36)
 Josh: Yes. But seriously, send it back.
  • + 1
flag arran11 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:47)
 so your having me on! not sumthink i would expect from a company. so what do i have ? is a proto? does it not work properly where they made and then called back? whats the problem with me owning this?
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  • + 1
flag ReductiMat (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:38)
 I like to do all the maintenance on my Boxxer WC forks (all the way down to replacing o-rings on the damper and air shock). Why don't you want us going into our CCDB's to do the same service?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:20)
 Gary: ReductiMat, servicing a CCDB requires some specialized tools and training. All of our Authorized Service Centers have had training on rebuilds; you can find their information on our web site.
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  • + 1
flag calvairedoka (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:06)
 I have a morewood makulu with a 10.5 inch ccdb shock. Coil version. The coil is a 250pounds.

There seems to be about 1 or 2 mm of play in the shock. Should I get it serviced? Could it hurt the shock?
  • + 1
flag timkoerber (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:11)
 Sounds like it is probably your DU bushings, which become worn over time and are usually the cause of such play.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:29)
 Malcolm: Give us a call to discuss, as we need to do some diagnosis: 800.234.2375
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:43)
 Jim: +1 to Tim's response. Also, make sure that you have at least a full turn of preload on the spring to make sure that it's not free at top out.

If it's not the bushings, the spring, or even the suspension pivots then something is bad the matter and you should send the damper in to your local service center for a thorough going over.
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  • + 2
flag deanw (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:02)
 How critical is getting an Angle Set centered on a frame and what procedure do you recommend to finding the center of a frame?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:10)
 Chris: Absolutely critical! Correct installation of AngleSet is key - don't be afraid to pull it apart and re-install it. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag benanthomp (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:29)
 yes
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  • + 1
flag Willm87 (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:13)
 Just another quick one, to all who wish to answer what products do you guys want to see coming soon? I know you can't say all that you have in the pipeline but there must be something you'd all like to see/do bike wise?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:18)
 Chris: WIllm, is that to us or the others logged in? If directed at CC, I can tell you that we'll keep pushing the envelope to make your rides the best they can be, whatever form that may take!
  • + 1
flag Willm87 (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:23)
 No it's to you guys! Just wondering if there were projects or ideas that you'd like to see become a reality not necessarily by you guys but in the general bike world!
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  • + 3
flag prenderville (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:21)
 have you ever shot someone with a double barrel ?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:34)
 Gary: It's hunting season here in the mountains, blaze orange is the order of the day ...
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:40)
 Jim: we here at Cane Creek try our utmost to avoid pulling a Cheney.
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flag bullcrew (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:45)
 Couldn't seem to get the ccdb to work like I was hoping on a pivot phoenix is there any chance the air version might work better or is the humped curve a bit of a pia?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:45)
 Josh: Hmmm... there is no reason why this should be the case. Did you try: www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf

Also, our CS dept is available to assist you 800.234.2725

I don't know if the DBair fits in the "shock hole" on the Phoenix - I need to look into that.
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  • + 1
flag Mbarnes (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:41)
 Do you have a base tune for the ccdbair on a 2012 orange five. I've joined the forum and emailed seperately but not heard anything yet.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:39)
 Holly: Who did you email? I will have them flogged. We are working on this tune - see my response to HarryakaDave.
  • + 1
flag Mbarnes (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:43)
 I emailed the info@canecreek address. Thanks for the quick reply that's great to know you are working on it.
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  • + 1
flag shafthouseshred (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:01)
 I keep blowing up my proprietary fox rear shock on a 2012 stumpy comp. Is there any chance the CCDBair from the newer s-works enduros could fit onto my bike? Thanks.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:29)
 Josh: We do not currently have a shock that will fit any Stumpy's. Apologies...
  • + 1
flag captainspaulding (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:31)
 Any plans on making that a reality in the future? Although my rp23 has been great, it would be nice to have options..
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:53)
 Josh: taking the 5th
  • + 1
flag captainspaulding (Oct 19, 2012 at 8:37)
 Sounds a lot better than a flat out "no", good to hear there's hope!
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flag nyesteeze (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:43)
 Cane Creek previously made the DB in a 6.5x1.5", but it is no longer listed on the CC website. Is it possible to "special order" a 6.5x1.5" DB or possible a DBair??
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:16)
 Jim: emna69, right you are. Unfortunately this size is now most common on short travel bikes where our damper is not often used. So the economics of the thing kicked in and we can no longer support this size for the DBCoil as we once could.

For the DBAir we skipped this size entirely during the design phase. So for now you're out of luck unless you find a used 165/38 from an older generation.
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  • + 1
flag carraig042 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:13)
 I have heard that the shaft on the newer ccdb spring is a little bigger than previous when I bought mine for a Demo. Is this true? If so why did the size change?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:28)
 Josh: As of August 2012, all DBcoil shocks that will be used on bikes with a "shaft extension" (Demo 8, Enduro EVO, LaPierre Spicy, etc) are getting 9.5mm damper shafts (up from 8mm). This was done as a precautionary measure for the potentially higher bending loads.
  • + 1
flag carraig042 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:55)
 Thats cool, thank you very much!
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  • + 1
flag kavika (Oct 18, 2012 at 10:53)
 Great to see a company like this offering so much info/advice, and taking on board what the customers want. Even better that you all have a good sense of humour
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  • + 1
flag DoubleCrownKing (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:12)
 What´s the service interval you guys recommend for a DB Air, since I do a lot of DH on all types of terrains and conditions (yes, lots of mud and rain riding too)?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:33)
 Chris: For DB Air, we recommend a seal rebuild at least every 6 months, with a full service from an Authorized Service Center at least once per year. For your riding conditions, that seal service may be needed more often. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag betsie Plus (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:25)
 Are you going to look at making the adjusters on the CCDB adjustable without a tool?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:26)
 Jim: we have looked at this but to date we have found that the disadvantages of making this happen outweigh the advantages. It's on our radar but we aren't willing to compromise adjustability or frame-fit to make it happen.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag jradl (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:14)
 How about a light weight 40mm stantion plush 200mm duel crown fork?? I like the light wight feel but also the duability of 40mm forks
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  • + 1
flag bonowanabe (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:58)
 "Angleset "I've put grease, I've used plummer tape, I even talk to it nicely but the noise is still there, I'm used to it by now ...
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:22)
 Chris: Correct installation of AngleSet is key - don't be afraid to pull it apart and re-install it. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag willlikes2ride1 (Oct 19, 2012 at 6:11)
 Hi guys i have the problem of that i am very light and are my rear shock is not sagging enough for my liking!
what do you think i should try i am on a 350 pound spring?
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  • + 1
flag hodges (Oct 18, 2012 at 22:03)
 @Jim M.

I was curious to know what you thought of my design 'changes' from a couple of years ago?
Can be found here:

www.pinkbike.com/photo/4773760
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag toughyguy (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:41)
 For those of us with Demo 8 frames with CCDB's, how much will it cost to get our shocks upgraded to the 9.5mm damper shaft? Thanks!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:10)
 Holly: Give us a call and we can walk you through your options. 800.234.2725
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  • + 1
flag trundle (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:51)
 I would like to see a coil sprung shock designed for 4" to 5" travel cross country bikes. Or a smaller version of your DB shocks for the same application.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:59)
 Chris: Trundle, thanks for the suggestion! We love hearing what riders want to see from us. Keep 'em coming!
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  • + 1
flag lonchera (Oct 17, 2012 at 21:52)
 Is the CCDB Air recommended for the Intense M9 frame?
AND
What is the weight difference between the CCDB Air and a CCDB with Ti spring?
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  • + 1
flag gdr-inc (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:33)
 can u do a 'test trial' for all pinkbike users with the dbair? if we mail u our adress, u send it to us and we test. il even send u feddback !!!!!!!! Smile
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:44)
 Holly: Welcome to the Family!!! Just send me $650 USD in unmarked bills with a self-addressed, stamped box.
  • + 1
flag gdr-inc (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:00)
 hahah... well USD bills are kinda hard to come by here in norway... but it seems we have entered into the barter system!
I can send u 3 kilos of salmon... or a bit of crude oil?? there seems to be plenty of that here... il even throw in a horned viking helmet for good measure... that should be a fair trade?!? Smile
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:12)
 Holly: I softened at the Viking Helmet....keep talking.
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  • + 1
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:41)
 Is there a difference between the CCDB coil that Malcolm Hadley is pictured holding and the current CCDB coil?
Is it just looks or are there internal changes as well?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:11)
 Malcolm:
Yeah that's an old picture with a 2009 era shock. Older graphics and old crusty Malcolm - the internals would be the same.
  • + 1
flag Nick-Hodge (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:32)
 Haha thanks for the answer Malcolm
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:08)
 Jim: We know your internals are same Malcolm but what about the shock?
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag GiantXTC-0 (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:44)
 so cane creek, where's the double barrel air in 7.875 x 2" ... I've been waiting
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:57)
 Gary: It's available now, contact your local bike shop. Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag bigalscrap (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:22)
 Howdy folks.... Would I notice any difference between my db coil (ti) and Adblock air on my 951cc? .... Love my coil tho... Thx
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Bloodyroots (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:22)
 How do i line up the angleset cups perfectly? Is there a certain way to do this or just by eyeball? And if it is just a bit off will that cause harm?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:27)
 Gary: Check out our installation videos on the Tech section of our web site -- that step is critical to good installation! No harm, but you don't want it knocking either!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag sidekicked (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:39)
 Cane Creek: Nascar, F1, or Moto GP, Whats the shops consensus? Alos what other industries (if any) do you guys serve, and at what level?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:42)
 Eric: Moto GP. But Chris is a NASCAR fan. We're all over the place here!
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:47)
 Pete: Formula 1. Benissimo!
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:47)
 Chris: We're located about 2 hours from the heart of NASCAR country. Yee-haw!
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:00)
 Holly: Did you see Kasey Kahne in ESPN Magazine - I'm now a fan for life.
Josh: Moto GP
Jim: Formula 1
Scott: I like the one that Dannika Patrick races in.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:13)
 Jim: We do a lot of work with Ohlins and their TTX20 damper for FSAE competition...by a lot of work I mean we make it. Other than that we also supply DBs and headsets to all kinds of markets including trikes, sit-ski, unmanned robotic boats, it's a very interesting business.
  • + 1
flag sidekicked (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:46)
 Right on, world class operation
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag snoopy24777 (Oct 17, 2012 at 15:46)
 can i have a sponsorship?
  • + 2
flag snoopy24777 (Oct 17, 2012 at 15:48)
 completely kidding
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag RicardoES (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:44)
 I would want to see a 3,5kg fork with DB damping and 300mm of travel Big Grin
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag a-r-c (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:39)
 The stock shock is 7.25x1.75 on that Trance, can a dbair be made for this application?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:44)
 Malcolm: Sorry no options that size.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag mcarswell (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:22)
 you guys have the best customer service,great parts,when can i see a cane creek fork??? ever? tupSalute
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:41)
 Holly: Thanks! See our post at the top-o-the-page.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag zangrando (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:28)
 Malcom

I just by a BD coil for my Yeti SB66 and I would like to know a base setting to start with?

Thanks
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:58)
 Malcolm:
Give this a try - Open all adjusters counter clockwise. Be careful with the low speed adjusters they have small clicks, when you get near the end of the adjustment range and you feel resistance stop.

Turn Adjusters clockwise

HSR- 2.0-2.5 turns in from all out
LSR - 10-12 clicks from all out
HSC - 0.5-1.0 turns in from all out
LSC - 15-17 clicks in from all out
  • + 1
flag zangrando (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:11)
 thank's Malcom Last question I also have a Yeti 303 wc the 25th anniversary , and I'm planning to change the Fox with a DB coil as well can you give me a base setting on this as well Thank's again
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:28)
 Malcolm: For that bike it would be best for you to use our Tuning Field Guide: www.canecreek.com/resources/products/suspension/double-barrel/DB_Field_guide.pdf
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag madcowdungbeetle (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:40)
 What bands are ya'll most looking forward to on the Moogfest line-up this year?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:43)
 Eric: Miike Snow, Santigold, Gza ... the list goes on ...
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:44)
 Gary: And y'all know it's pronounced "mohg-fest," not "moog-fest", right?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:47)
 Holly: Its a toss up - Thomas Dolby or Mike Snow.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:52)
 Jim: Justice is playing the civic center a few days prior too!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag johnsamsung10 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:42)
 I was wondering, how would changing out my fox rc4 for a ccdb coil benefit my ride Thanks
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:56)
 Josh - Change your ride? It'll change your life!

But seriously, if you call us (800.234.2725) with your bike make/model/year we can help.

Thanks
  • + 1
flag johnsamsung10 (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:08)
 Really? Would it really make that much of a difference? I'm riding an 08 orange 224 (not Evo version)
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:31)
 Josh: The guys at Orange can comment on this...
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag Shoe2190 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:57)
 Whats your relationship with Ohlins?
  • + 5
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:05)
 Malcolm: it was consensual
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag zangrando (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:23)
 I just by a BD coil for my Yeti SB66 and I would like to know a base setting to start with?
Thanks
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag HolmesRacing (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:14)
 Why do shocks look like toilet paper holders?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:42)
 Jim: Where would you keep your toilet paper if they didn't?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag N3Rd5 (Oct 18, 2012 at 0:05)
 I would buy a 200 mm dual crown in a heartbeat from you guys! your work is amazing! keep it up!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag spudmaster (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:08)
 Quick question: Will Enduro ACB 36 x 45 SS bearings fit my Angleset ZS49?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:03)
 Chris: That AngleSet would take 41mm x 7mm bearings, so if that's the size then they should. All of our AngleSet bearings (41mm or 52mm) are the same as those found in our standard headsets. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag merlinmarlee (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:21)
 hey guys do you sell 1.5 headset bearings which are 36 x 36 degrees and 7mm deep?There for my GT fury main pivot bearings.Thanks
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:27)
 Our 52mm (1.5") bearings are 36x45 and 6.5mm deep, sorry.
  • + 1
flag merlinmarlee (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:32)
 Ok no worries,the search goes on lol,these bearings seem to be as rare as the holy grail
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:36)
 Jim: yep, Enduro bearings will fit. Their chamfers are a little different than ours so the cover to gimbal gap will vary by 0.25mm or so but no big deal.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:44)
 Just beware the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog and you'll be good. Cheers!
  • + 2
flag spudmaster (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:48)
 Thanks for the reply
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag rismtb (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:46)
 Would like to upgrade my inset headset. 2010 Giant trance/ 1' 1/18 revelation XX thanks eh
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:12)
 Chris: Depends on the Trance. If it's a straight headtube, you need the ZS44|ZS44/30; if it's tapered, then the ZS44|ZS56/30 (conversion) is the ticket. These are available in both 110 and 40-Series. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag kev1n (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:29)
 could you fit a cane creek double barrel air or coil in an iron horse sunday frame with a modified bottom link?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:57)
 Chris: We don't recommend modifying anything that has to do with the shock or your frame. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag hwipwill (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:20)
 I'm looking at completing a xc build this winter. Would the db be good for a full sus. XC or what? Thanks.
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:54)
 Chris: Your first issue might be fit -- the DB Air doesn't fit on some shorter-travel bikes. Even if it does fit, the shock is really optimized for 5+ inches of travel -- it's an incredible all-mountain ride, but may not be the best choice for XC racing. Your call -- get a test ride if you can!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Mpdan97 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:24)
 I am currently a college student Dual majoring in mechanical and electrical engineering. Do you offer Co-ops or internships?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:09)
 Holly: We do - send your resume.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag iguanabartola (Oct 17, 2012 at 19:59)
 Hi Guys, have read comments con DB and DA for Enduros but how about SX Trails from 2009 - 2012? Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag JonnyLotus (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:26)
 Are You guys going to branch out into gearing components e.g rear derailers?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:00)
 Chris: Johnny, we love hearing what you all want to see from us, thanks for the suggestion. Can you imagine a DB rear mech? :-)
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag c25porter (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:10)
 What are the chances of getting a 216x54mm Cane Creek Double Barrel Air shock?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:54)
 Josh: slim to none. What bike is this for?
  • + 1
flag c25porter (Oct 18, 2012 at 13:55)
 Think you guys are gone so it doesn't matter, but a 2011 Specialized Enduro Evo. Pretty Awesome bike that could be made better with individual oil circuits and a little less weight, but not worth the $400 upgrade to a 2013 frame with DB Air.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag SirShmoopy (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:10)
 Is there any way to still buy replacement parts for the Cane Creek Zonos wheelset?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:38)
 Chris: Cane Creek exited the wheel business some 5 years ago, and we no longer have replacement parts. That said the bearings were from Enduro, and can be purchased off the shelf; likewise, straight-pull spokes are available from dealers and distributors worldwide. As for spoke nipples, the Bontrager design works with our wheels, and if you're really interested, 3T has re-introduced the Cane Creek design for road wheels. Thanks for your question!
  • + 1
flag SirShmoopy (Oct 18, 2012 at 18:51)
 cool. thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag aljoburr (Nov 20, 2012 at 6:24)
 Why is no one build a Sealed drive bike before?
www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1104108
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag chipko (Feb 6, 2013 at 9:07)
 is there a Cane creek double barrel air available for the Lapierre Zesty 314 2012?
[Reply]
  • + 2
flag mtbrider71 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:02)
 How would a CCDB perform on a Canfield Jedi?
  • + 1
flag doodooboy (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:13)
 Just to piggy back, and Not a professional advice, but I ran a DB coil on my 2011 Jedi. It was amazing, once I figured out the bugs and got it dailed. Which really took a while. Now on a 2012 Jedi with a DB air, and I've had it for a month and a half, so still in the process of Dailing it in.

My question, to add to this is, can you guys put a baseline setup for the Canfield Jedi on your site in teh DB Coil/Air lounge. Just so we have something to go off of. Especailly since the jedi has 3 different shock poisitoins which affect the rate of the travel from progressive to linear.

Thanks
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:18)
 Malcolm:

The Jedi and DB do play well together. Feel free to post up your settings in the lounge, it would be great to compare with others.
We are still digging into the Jedi.
  • + 1
flag mtbrider71 (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:23)
 Thanks alot for the response!
  • + 3
flag CanfieldBrothers (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:03)
 The CCDB coil has been one of our favorite shocks with the Jedi with the open valving nature of the shock. We also have quite a few customers super stoked with the DB Air on it as well!
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:01)
 Josh: Canfield Bros - high five!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag fufighter05 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:08)
 other than weight what are the advantages / disadvantages of the CCDB air vs CCDB coil with ti spring?
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:36)
 Chris: We view the CCDB and the DB Air as two separate conversations. Suspension designs and leverage curves being what they are, the way a coil or an air behave are very different. What it comes down to, is what is your bike optimized for? If it's a coil bike, then CCDB is probably your best bet. If your bike is meant for an air spring, then DB Air is your go-to choice. There are ways to make your Air behave more like a coil on some bikes, but optimizing for your bike design is a good place to start. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag tsivis83 (Nov 2, 2012 at 11:58)
 A full list of compatibility of rear shocks with at least last 4 years frames would be great for potential buyers.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag casdude (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:10)
 Hey.
I have a v10 carbon with a fox 40 fork. My angleset bearings are bad and i need new.
What kind do i need?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:14)
 Chris: casdude, the bearings in the AngleSet are the same as those found in all Cane Creek headsets to make them easier to service. Visit your local bike shop to determine size and they can help you out. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag manchicken (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:32)
 Hey, I was wondering if the CCDB air shock would go well on a commencal V3 frame, and would set up help be available?
  • + 1
flag manchicken (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:37)
 *how much set up help would be available, I know it's there, just not to what extent
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag kanter (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:31)
 Id like to know some settings for my CCDB for a Zerode? The Zerode isn't on your site.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:58)
 Eric: kanter, thanks -- have you become a Lounge Lizard yet? www.canecreek.com/products/suspension/lounge We're updating manufacturer recommended settings as quickly as we can, and in the meantime users are sharing settings for a wide variety of bikes!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag xiloti (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:18)
 Hi,

Will you add the rocky mountain flatline 2010+ in the basic setting for the ccdb coil?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:27)
 Malcolm: xiloti We are still gathering up the info on the Flatline. If you have a chance - post your setting up in the lounge, the settings from customers help us as well!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:49)
 Holly: My dream, my dream - see my answer to HarryakaDave.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag flatline-pro-2 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:09)
 I own a 2011 banshee legend and it has a verry linear suspension. Which is better or the bike the db coil or the db air.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:44)
 Holly: Great bike - see our answer to flatline-pro-2.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag iguanabartola (Oct 17, 2012 at 20:13)
 Hi Guys, have read comments con DB and DA for Enduros but how about SX Trails from 2009 - 2012? Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag philbert2000 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:15)
 Hey Cane Creek... Do you use any kind of hydraulic simulation / CFD tools for the development?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:39)
 Holly: Yes.
  • + 1
flag philbert2000 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:45)
 What kind of software do you use? Do you have any special prepared shock for testing on a test bench? Whould be really nice to see some photos from your R&D departement. I´m working as an development engineering for mobile hydraulics and I`m really interested in that stuff Smile
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:59)
 Josh: You do not have adequate security clearance
  • + 2
flag philbert2000 (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:03)
 Alrigh. Confidential stuff... I get it Wink
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag slash-arto170 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:33)
 i ve got a CCDB on my morewood makulu and some time the spring rub the shock and make some noise, what that?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:53)
 Malcolm: Make sure the open end of the spring's coil is not grabbing the open end of the lower spring retainer. You want these 180 degrees apart from each other. Also try re-mounting the spring upside down. Thanks!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag sharkmister (Oct 17, 2012 at 20:36)
 For forks it would be good to see xfusion prices and marizochi durability and performance
  • + 1
flag mcarswell (Oct 17, 2012 at 21:24)
 ill ride my 888 till i cant anymore i love it! the older Italian made ones seem stronger if you take care of them,love mine. marzochhi is great,id love to see a CC fork.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag boss808 (Oct 17, 2012 at 20:09)
 why are the reviews for the double barrel airs so bad? was it made to compete against the vivid air?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag gearsforbrains (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:08)
 Could you please make me a shock to replace my Fox DRCV on the Trek Fuel EX?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:47)
 Jim: Eric in customer service has a setup like this on his Fuel EX so it is possible but it takes some doing. We're looking into making this a marketable setup. Stay tuned.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:53)
 Chris: Thanks for the suggestion!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag static-schock (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:39)
 it would be nice to see a functioning dropper post that doesn't have the typical wear and play issues.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag groghunter (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:45)
 What's the story on the lever on the DBair picture from one of the recent bike trade shows?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:10)
 Holly: That is a quick-flip lever that we created specific to the 2013 Specialized Enduro. Basically it is a fast Low Speed Compression adjustment. Nothing fancy.
  • + 0
flag EnduroManiac (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:41)
 Which brings us to the next question: any plans for a smaller air shock with a platform lever? Sort of a CCDB RP23?
  • + 1
flag groghunter (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:43)
 so.... any chance that can be a standard item or accessory? It'd be nice to be able to ramp up that low speed for climbs for those of us without an enduro as well...
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:57)
 Holly: Not at this time, the lever is exclusively for Specialized.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag benuntu (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:19)
 What is a good recommended shock for the Santa Cruz Blur LT (2012 or newer)? Is the CCDBA too much?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:33)
 Jim: Benuntu, I am under marketing orders not to tip my hand too much but suffice it to say that we have an upcoming shock mod that will make the DBAir ideally suited to VPP bikes like the Blur LT, Nomad, and Intense Tracer 2.

That said, I personally own a 2009 Blur LTc with a DBAir and my afformentioned "mod" and it's rad. Definitly not too much shock for that bike!
  • + 1
flag ahaus (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:29)
 When will this shock mod be available? Is it easy to modify an existing DBAir? I'm riding an Intense Tracer 2 with a DBAir and have problems with the setup especially when climbing fire roads (back is sinking, bad climbing efficiency). So I'm switching back to the RP23 on rides with longer climbs. Thanks.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ryanjohnson86 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:32)
 What is the difference between the Cane Creek DB and the Rock Shox Vidid? Is one better than the other? If so, why?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:56)
 Josh: Loaded question. From my totally unbiased opinion, I'm leaning towards the Cane Creek.

The main functional difference between the Vivid and the DBs (both coil and air flavors) is in the way the damping fluid is ported inside the shocks. In fact, this is the main difference between all other bike shocks and the DBs. The Double Barrel shocks use a twin tube design, where the main damping is achieved through externally adjustable valving. All other shocks use the main damper piston as the primary source of damping.

Side note - One should use the word 'damping' whenever talking about fluid dynamics, hydraulics, system dynamics, etc. The word 'dampening' should be reserved for discussions about getting wet.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Schy (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:06)
 The Double Barrel is really loud on my Demo 8. I've had it serviced but no luck. Any suggestions?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:18)
 Malcolm:
Can you explain what the noise is ? Spring rub can make squeaking sound.
  • + 1
flag Schy (Oct 17, 2012 at 15:29)
 I believe it is the spring rubbing, any solutions?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag kanter (Oct 17, 2012 at 16:13)
 The lounge is hard to navigate. Does anyone else agree?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Christthn (Nov 11, 2012 at 12:10)
 Is it possible to fit a 1.5 fork into a 1.1/8 headtube?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag max14221 (Oct 18, 2012 at 9:38)
 Hi CC do you have a base tune for DB AIR on a 2012 Nukeproof Mega ???
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag burningrubber (Oct 19, 2012 at 17:24)
 How much will the dbair be?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag MTBLUKE (Oct 23, 2012 at 14:47)
 Which us better cc db or fix dhx 5.0 whats the differebces
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Grmasterd (Oct 17, 2012 at 17:31)
 will the DB coil or DB air fit in a 08' Giant Glory 0 frame? Thx Dan
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag blairh111 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:10)
 Do you have any base tunes for a scalp with a CCDB coil?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:19)
 Malcolm:

Getting closer on this but we are waiting some data from the CRC riders.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag enduro-Al (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:11)
 Why doesn't Cane Creek have any distributors or service centers in Canada?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:18)
 Chris: enduro, Cane Creek products are distributed in Canada by Norco, and Norco is the service center for Double Barrel. Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:52)
 Malcolm: Enduro - you can also hit up Suspension Werx in Vancouver for DB service.
  • + 1
flag Socket (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:15)
 Vorsprung Suspension in Whistler also offers DB servicing.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:12)
 Malcolm: Vorsprung would not be an authorized Cane Creek service center.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag LoCoDH (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:23)
 When is the new fork gonna come out?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:00)
 Josh: we still have a lot of inventory of our old fork..

oh wait, see @cork
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag fdolzan (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:26)
 Should I use BDair on a V10??? or a DB coil?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:41)
 Malcolm:
With the V10's travel settings, you may want to run the DB air so you don't have to swap out spring rates for different travel settings. Also if you want a more progressive/lively feel the DB air may be the choice.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag potthead (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:06)
 do you have a grassroots program?
  • + 16
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:29)
 Holly: Interesting Username, is it the grass or the roots you are interested in?
  • + 1
flag potthead (Oct 18, 2012 at 9:31)
 i get that so much. i wasnt thinking when i made my account. but really do you have a grassroots rider program
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag AlexRose (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:59)
 Why are the piston rods on the Double Barrel coil so small in diameter?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:16)
 Malcolm:
Hey Alex, Most other shocks have a rebound adjuster contained in the shock shaft. This requires a larger diameter shaft because the inside is hollow. The Double Barrel's rebound adjusters are in the cylinder head so a smaller diameter solid shaft can be used. To get even more complicated, most other shocks rely on the oil displaced by the shaft as it enters the shock body to provide external damping adjustment. The shaft has to be made artificially large to provide even a minimal adjustment range. The Double Barrel is different. It does not rely on the oil displaced by the shaft to provide external damping adjustment so having a smaller diameter shaft doesn't reduce adjustability.
  • + 1
flag empty403 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:07)
 You have the wrong assumption, if you think the DB coil shock is weaker due to the thinner shaft! It's a solid shaft and not a hollow thin walled tube. Another positive item, less stiction/friction, due to less surface area on the thinner shaft.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag XfactorCanmore (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:44)
 Is the double barrel air shock a good enduro rear shock?
  • + 8
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:42)
 Josh: I think you meant to say, "Is the Double Barrel air shock the best enduro rear shock".

yes
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag antony134 (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:15)
 which model of angleset i need for my devinci wilson 2013 ?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:53)
 Chris: Assuming they haven't changed from their 2012 design, you're looking at the ZS49|EC56 AngleSet. Thanks for the question!
[Reply]
  • - 3
flag xetal (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:13)
 How can my brand new CCDB mounted on my Norco aurum 2013 comes with loose DU bushings ? Pulling up on the bike saddle make em click like they are worn out already... I torqued shock bolts to spec. When i put my Fox RC4 with the same mounting hardware the it dosent happen ???

Also how come when i undo all my adjusting knobs the LSC one just spins endlessly ?

This is a BRAND NEW shock ????? Where is QC ????
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:23)
 Malcolm:

Give our CS team a call 800 234 2725 - lets get you set up proper.
  • + 0
flag xetal (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:18)
 My shock is already out for warranty service. I just find it sad to send a brand new shock in...
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag taber (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:33)
 Will a DB air fit onto a 2012 Demo 8?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:05)
 Holly: We are working on that - see Josh's answer to Lexatron14
  • + 0
flag taber (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:12)
 Are you going to release a DBair to the public for the demo8 soon?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag KyleIsaman (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:27)
 how much swag does cane creek have?
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:29)
 Holly: As much as I can buy.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:30)
 Malcolm:
Josh has Knolly Tshirts......Me, just a bunch of crazy years gone by treasures.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:40)
 Jim: Holly's not lying, I haven't bought a t-shirt since I started working here.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Jacko6793 (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:06)
 Will you be developing a Kashima like coating for any of your shocks?
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:41)
 Josh: We are always exploring technologies that improve Double Barrel function, so in that sense we are also exploring coatings. From our testing, our current coating technology (I guess we should name it) performs exactly as it should. We are not willing to weight form over function at our customer's expense. That is to say, sometimes the engineers actually win the battle with marketing at Cane Creek.
  • + 4
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:01)
 Holly: Ha! I got you here today though didn't I????
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Ride-More (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:55)
 Please give us a USD fork to match the DBA. Thanks
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:01)
 Josh: You want a fork made from US Dollars? I have never thought of fabricating something from actual money, but not a bad idea...
  • + 1
flag sidecar (Oct 17, 2012 at 21:27)
 Since US dollars are not worth very much anymore, how about gold or silver? At least they will increase in value.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag kanter (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:24)
 Do I have to register to use the THE LOUNGE?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:32)
 Chris: Kanter, yes -- all you need is your CCDB serial number. Cheers!
  • + 1
flag kanter (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:39)
 What if you don't own a CCBD and you just want to read up before you buy one?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:55)
 Holly: Sorry - there are lots of resources on our website and reviews online....The Lounge is for the VIPS. Join us!!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag gticlay (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:57)
 Is the air spring modification available now for the 8.5 x 2.5 DBA?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:00)
 Eric: Contact your nearest service center on that one -- contact info available on the web site. Thanks!
  • + 1
flag gticlay (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:11)
 Does it require an oil bleed?
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag loganjensen (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:18)
 why does it cost $60 to send a titanium spring to new zealand?
  • + 2
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:27)
 Holly: Not sure...ask them: www.usps.com
  • + 2
flag samminett (Oct 17, 2012 at 21:44)
 the weight most likley
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag Edward47 (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:30)
 More bang for less buck. Cane creek should explore them options.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag ryanjohnson86 (Oct 17, 2012 at 12:51)
 What shock works better for a 2010 Demo 8. The DB coil or air?
  • + 3
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 13:05)
 Malcolm: We haven't built a production DB air for the Demo 8 II model yet. However we have ridden the bike with both DBair and coil shocks.
It really comes down to rider choice, the DB air will give you more feedback/pop due to the progression of the air spring. Many riders prefer that feel plus the DB air would lighter. Now, we have to actually have a production DB air for the Demo II to have this choice....
Hopefully in the next month or so.
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag konarider112 (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:18)
 What is your favorite kind of mac and cheese? Do you add anything to it?
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:30)
 Chris: The mac and cheese from 12 Bones is the bomb!
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 14:31)
 Holly: My secret recipe with brazilian bacon on top!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag flatline-pro-2 (Oct 17, 2012 at 11:54)
 Reason for my question I am dying to try a Ccdb either coil or air!
[Reply]
  • + 1
flag nyesteeze (Oct 17, 2012 at 9:54)
 Awesome.
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 10:20)
 Jim: emna69, right you are. Unfortunately this size is now most common on short travel bikes where our damper is not often used. So the economics of the thing kicked in and we can no longer support this size for the DBCoil as we once could.

For the DBAir we skipped this size entirely during the design phase. So for now you're out of luck unless you find a used 165/38 from an older generation.
[Reply]
  • - 1
flag bonowanabe (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:53)
 My angleset seems to creak
  • + 1
flag CaneCreekCyclingComponents (Oct 17, 2012 at 8:58)
 Chris: Correct installation of AngleSet is key. The best bet is to click over to our Tech Section of our web site to view installation videos and tips! www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/manuals Thanks for the question!
  • + 1
flag TREK17 (Oct 22, 2012 at 19:47)
 Do you guys plan on creating a coating like the other companies?
[Reply]
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