Shimano Gives Us the First Taste of Its 2015 lineup

 is strava enduro specific bro?

 I used to like hikers.

 "Will Shimano offer a smart phone app?"
Nobody here gives a crap

 I use enduro.

 Great surprise after all the 11 speed, narrow-wide hype. ironically,no pun intended

 how long does the battery actually last? imagine battery powered brakes haha

 It's wireless right? What if there would be some bug in transmission frequency in the middle of the peloton? If one guys Di-2 transmitter suddenly controls derailleurs of 4 bikes? What if they make Di-2 brakes as well? I would not risk it myself, too much probability of sabotage... man I crashed on the 56th kilometer -what happened? - they hacked my Di2 again...

 Nice food for thought but I'm sure they figured that out before releasing it.

 Waki that would be amazing

 But have they figured out The EMP shockwave?

 Waki, they are aware of this issue and will be implementing the AFA* system to combat the possible problems.




*Another f*cking Acronym

  I was thinking the same Waki - roadies cheating on whole new level

But on the serious note:
Wireless seatpost & derailleurs, lockouts... that would clean up handlebars nicely!

 Quebracho... such things are already designed they just haven't seen the light...YET!

 imagine they make something like a SRAM to Shimano changer....

  for sale shimano e-mech , unlocked....

 Yeah some guy on the side of the course with an rf jammer mashing everybody's gears! lol

 Not only EMP shock waves and frequency take overs but what if a solar flare simultaneously takes the whole Tour de France out. It seems obvious that it's built this way by design, somebody knows how to make that event better.

 All i can think of now is the scene in scary movie 4 where the little girls bike stops working after emp

 The hecklers hacking the signals and change gear during the rock gardens yes!

 Gotta love how all this going

 If I'm reading all the articles right the system doesn't actually control the shifting. It just relays information to a ANT+ computer that allows for the display of Di2 data and customizing features. I have the the 1st gen E-Tube Ultegra and the wireless functionality solves having to connect your computer to it with the special E-tube wiring / software. So the hacking would actually not shift the victims bike, but change custom settings, number of gears, etc. You could reverse what the shifters do, etc.

 oh sh*t even more Di2 stuff to go wrong on customers bikes


hint: I am a professional bike mechanic regularly making "repairs" (firmware updates, diagnostics, charging flat batteries, replacing faulty batteries, damaged cables, faulty shifters and faulty junction boxes) to bikes fitted with Di2 electronic shifting systems)

 @hampsteadbandit, get ready to fully format a bike.

 I have about 4,000 miles on mine through two Seattle winters, multiple hose washes, no firmware updates (although that would be cool) and zero problems at all. Never adjust anything it just works. Same for my buddies.

 Why do roadies need this? Are they doing tail whips and bar spins now?

 All we want is a pinkbike app

 @snide

many of the Di2 problems I see on my customers bikes are user error:- crashing and damaging components. customers are then replacing with new items bought on-line with different firmware version installed = dead system

or from cables being damaged during transit, or in crashes, or bad installations.

we have also seen an increasing number of "faulty" components with no crash damage that have just stopped functioning after a couple of weeks / months of use - typically the handlebar junction box and the microswitches in the STI handlebar shifters. Shimano are 100% good with warranty

I think I'll stick to mechanical shifting (Shimano Ultegra) on my own road bike

 never thought i'd see the day bike wrenches started talking about firmware compatibility...

 Wait for the shim stack nerds to start talking of firmware tuning... as soon as we get the electronic CCDB, I will call my self an Off-road Cyclist on an old bike

 anybody knows what channel this uses? i asume 2.4Ghz

 @iffy

too true...

thought I'd only be updating firmware on my Blu-Ray player or to hack the region lock on my PC's DVD-Rom drive....bikes as well now!

 do a shortcut of your pinbike internet page on the desktop of your smartphone. have mine, even with the logo XD

 Electric bikes will kill off strava

 Nothing can kill Strava. Strava has a second name and soon it will reveal itself as the Skynet!

 Waki that ie great

 One problem with the 9-10 speed cassette that spans 11-42 is that you're forcing the derailleur to jump farther with each individual shift, which in turn makes the rear shifting jumpier and more likely to throw the chain. It would be fine if you're only occasionally shifting gears, like is normal on the front chainrings, but when you need to be able to shift a lot it is horrible (anyone who has tried to shift a cheap bike equipped with a MegaRange cassette can probably attest to this). By making it an 11 speed cassette it allows for the larger range with less shifting issues because the chain doesn't have to jump so far from one cog to the next. This is one reason why there has been very little change in the range of old 5 speed road cassettes and modern 10 and 11 speed road cassettes. The increased number of cassette speeds because it allows for smoother more accurate shifting because the chain is moving from an 11 to 12 tooth cog instead of moving from an 11 to 16 tooth cog.

I'm not saying you don't have a point. I'm just saying that there are mechanical factors behind making such a large ranged cassette that in the long run will make your ride a lot worse than it would be with an 11 spd.

Truth be told though in my experience if you're happy with a regular 10 speed 12-32 cassette then 10 speed is hands down better than 11 speed due to spacing issues. Only place where 11 speed beats 10 is when you want a crankset for a cassette.

 I think that a nicely machined 10 speed 11-42 cassette would shift very well. If you read about what people say about the aftermarket solutions like General Lee or 1Up, they say it works *almost as well as a factory piece. A true factory 10 sp 11-42 cassette with an appropriately engineered RD would be fine. Adding the 1 extra gear does almost nothing to the overall gear spread.

 But the General Lee only goes up to a 40 tooth, which may seem small but end ups having an effect on the overall spread. If you look at the gearing spread from SRAM XX lower end of the spread is making jumps of only 1 or 2 teeth, while the upper end eventually makes a 4 tooth jump to 36. The XX1 however, allows for the lower 5 gears to stay within 2 tooth increments, and is still able to make it to 42 without overreaching a 6 tooth jump. The SRAM 1070 on the other hand forces the derailleur to make both a 5 tooth jump and a 6 tooth jump for the final two cogs and it only gets to a 40. To reach a 42 tooth you would essentially have to ask your rear derailleur to perform an 8 - 10 tooth jump which are the kinds of jumps a front derailleur makes.

- SRAM XX: 11-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36
- SRAM XX1: 10-12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-42
- SRAM 1070 with General Lee adapter: 11-12-14-16-18-21-25-29-34-40
see-pinkbike review of General Lee

Yes, you can tune such large jumps to work, but in a realistic setting of mud, rain, and general mountain biking conditions the shifting performances of such large jumps begins to deteriorate very rapidly. This is the same issue that happens to front shifting performance when you're making your derailleur try and jump 8-10 teeth on a dirty cable (hence one of the perks of electric). Yes you can make it work, but most riders don't want the shifting response time of a front derailleur when they're needing to make fast accurate shifts. Not only is the SRAM XX1 providing smaller increments of shifting throughout the entire range of the cassette, but it's also offering a larger 10-42 tooth spread compared to the 11-40 offered by General Lee. (Don't forget that for the smaller range you're also paying $150 for half a cassette). It may not seem like much but adding that extra-gear is what allows the cassette to even reach 42 teeth, without forcing your rear derailleur to shift like a front derailleur.

 If you add one gear to a 10 speed cassette, each jump has to be average 10% bigger. If you spread it all the way down into the high cogs, you'd never notice.

 i like bicycles

 For me personally the smooth gear ratio transitions are felt only when I am able to feel them, and that is fire road or asphalt. When I am riding on the technical trail I don't care that much because very often I am pressing cranks so hard that I wouldn't be able to shift anyways. Ithappens few times, even on a short ride, that I have to live with some gear for few meters until I can shift. I started riding with 7 speed and I learned some gear shifting lessons then. These days I do enjoy smooth shifting under power but I remain sensible to how the chain travells between cogs. So many of us still ride 2 ring chainsets, if you can learn to effectively shift from 22-24 granny to 34-38 middle ring, then you will also be able to shift a 7 speed 11-42t cassette. Sram went for 11t just because they could. They had to change the rear mech to work better with the new cassette and so they had to change the shifter. Therfore they might as well make it 11 speeds as those new things would not be compatible wth the 10 speed stuff anyways. Most of the people who complain about extra large cogs do it not just because of shifting, but also because they are at the very end of what 10 speed derailleurs can take. Sram's rear mech is specificaly optimized for such cassettes and other mechs aren't.

 I wanna see some guy in the peleton riding around with an AWACS device on his bike jamming signals on Galibier.

 AWACS uses a passive electronically scanned array radar system which would not jam anything

 you must be fun at parties

 bholton - I laughed so hard, oh... that was the best thing I heard in a long time. Fortunately I got my huge share of fun before I read Poahs comment... we have this thing called Gothenburgian joke here in Sweden - it's about being ironic at another's irony - I hope it was that...

Never let the truth kill a good story, otherwise it may end up on a cementary and someone might ride it over with a bike

 poah: ya but that AWACS thing, whatever it does, would look so cool on a bike...or a helmet. Besides no one would notice.

 I thought it was funny too - next time he tells it, the joke will be factually correct

 ugh... but it is utterly irrelevant whether AWACS is a radar, jammer or a toaster - it's one of main weapons of electronic warfare in Hollywood films, able to spawn F16s or cruise missiles out of nowhere, or make F15s ready to take off from the nuclear aircraft carrier (luckily passing by), not mentioning tdirectign fire from a Hercules Spectre being in the attack position ready on call. It's just an icon, virtually nobody gives a damn what it actualy does

 never seen anything of what you describe happen in a Hollywood movie

 Where do you take your data from? I can't tell if you are right without looking at your data - do your research! Transformers, Enemy of the State

 I am surprised though you haven't noticed F15s taking off from an aircraft carrie bit...

 I would be stoked with just an 11-38 9 speed cassette, even made of steel, and Shimano would have sold a lot of them over the last couple years if they would just start paying attention to riders actual needs.

 I think one thing people might be forgetting to consider when contemplating the 42 tooth option for standard 9-10 speed drive trains is the kind of torque and stress they will be putting on their free hub body. At first I thought that Sram had just gone to 11 speed so that people with 9-10 speed drive trains would have to hop on the band wagon if they wanted the latest and greatest, but someone pointed out that the 42 cassette is going to put a lot of stress on the standard 9-10 speed free hub body and so it would make sense for Sram to move to the 11 speed, which provides them with the opportunity designing their product from the ground up with some of the stress and fatigue in mind. I was actually really considering going with one of the 42 tooth options but after seeing the maxed out b-tension, having to swap to a mid cage, paying over $100 for a single cog, and then considering some of the risks of destroying my free hub kind of pushed me away. I purchased a 30 tooth narrow wide from Race Face this last fall and paired with an 11-36 cassette and it performed pretty awesome. I'm interested in hearing about people's long term experiences with the 42 tooth cogs though.

 I'm not sure there would be more torque with a 30F/42R than with a 22F/36R... ??? Right? The gear ratio is almost the same... lower with the 22/36 even. Sounds like a way for them to claim their design is necessary.

 @maxlombardy, now that you mention it I agree, gear ratio for the 30/40 and 22/36 is fairly similar 1.4 and 1.63 respectively so really maybe you are correct 11 speed might be unnecessary. I have to admit though that I do like the interface between the X01/XX1 cassettes and the new hubs, so if for some reason the entire industry shifted to the the new interface but 9 and 10 one piece cassettes were produced (when pigs fly right) I would be ok. I think the main problem with high torque values might come with the single 42 tooth cogs rather than the one piece assembly like some XX cassettes, I am sure you have experienced the grief when the teeth on the inside of your cassette which interface with your free hub body have gouged up your free hub and made removal difficult, sometimes nearly impossible. I am guessing the single 42 tooth cog will have some potential torque issues that users will have to deal with at some point, and torque may be a moot point if you have a nicer free hub body that is not just aluminum but has some steel inserts.

 Yeah I see what you mean. Really, the standard cassette/freehub interface is ok, but seeing that it's been around for like 30 years, I do agree that it's time to re-think it. I definitely can get on board with Sram's new gig, but I just like the idea of a 10 speed option too. I honestly think it would be awesome if someone just made a proper 10 speed cassette that went up to 46 in the back. If General Lee does as good a job as they say, Shimano could definitely do them 1 better. For example:
XX1: 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42
10sp 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42

I doubt that if you did a blind ride on either one you could tell the difference. Then people could buy the cassette, and yeah, maybe the rear derailleur gets maxed out on the b-screw, but if Shimano introduced a medium cage derailleur that accepted a 42t Max cog, you could buy it down the line. You wouldn't have to though, at least not right away.

 the battery takes a long time to die, easier to plug in a battery overnight then to swap cables and housings out once in a while no?

 1 recharge every 6 months - not that bad.

 The batteries are good for 10 tour de france's on a single charge.

 Well I fitted new cables to my bike on the eve of a race and then the cable housing got smashed on the first stage thereby ruining my shifting. And that is certainly not the first time that has happened. If anything cables are the weak link and less reliable option. Bikes are equally reliant on components lasting and gear cable is not one of the more reliable components in my experience.

 guess it's a weight thing, but would be sweet if they rigged the batteries to recharge with the power generated by riding the bike.

 Most people get a whole season out of one battery charge. and the junction box lets you know well in advance if you are loosing power. eventually the front der stops working and it will only power the rear so you can still get home.

 I prefer human power and mechanical ingenuity over blue tooth enabled derailleurs. What I realy want to see is a mass acceptance for frame mounted internal transmissions. Derailleurs suck.

 @joeyjd the Di2 version of durace weighs less than the mechanical version, and that's including the battery

 I need this device! cya Froome!

 Who is gonna take the time to figure out how to hack someone's bike signal, then go wait around in the forest just to switch someone's gears? Seems like alor of work for a pretty mediocre payoff.

 Even better on the declines when they are throwing all their weight into the cranks to get the power strokes. Quickly throw them into the granny gear.

 It's not that mediocre if the pay off is a win at Tour de France...

 @nfstreet: you severely underestimate the power of bored people.

 @TJquinn "you severely underestimate the power of bored people" Haha

 That's pimp tight.

 BTW thank you, all powerful Deeeight, purveyor of all non-pinkbike published drivetrain knowledge. Please, what else have I foolishly been completely ignorant of??

 Pfffft. 11-40 for just $300-400, what a steal! I'd rather buy a normal shimano 11-36 10 speed set up, take off the 17 tooth and put on that 42 tooth by Oneup Components that I saw a review of here on Pinkbike. That'd only cost $200-250, I'd have an even easier gear than the 11-40 allows, and I'd have a green shiny bit on my bike.

 maxlobardy - he knows more about weird bike details than nazis ever knew about art pieces in France.

 deeeight what's your opinion on alloy/ti cassettes, don't they wear a little bit fast? as in a lottt faster than steel?

 Ha! WAKI...

 You guys do understand the concept of "First taste" right?! Shimano is appealing to the largest market segments first with their 2015 product releases and this place sure ain't it.

 Yeah, as long as Shimano resists going 1x, then SRAM has little pressure to trickle down their 1x11 stuff to X9 or X7.

 I did not know Shimano was resisting the 1x chain ring. But it would make sense considering that means one less front derail sold for Shimano. Personally I think more than one chain ring is great, best way to get a quick 1/3 to 1/2 quick up shift for those surprising inclines/down for declines. But I hate the additional shifter/derail/cable and problems they may induce. But I guess sometimes yo gotta take the good with the bad. And unless you are doing tail whips on your trail bike, I don't see why having a 2x or 3x chain ring would be a problem.

 Di2 is actually very waterproof and reliable already. there are videos of people pressure washing the crap out of those bikes, and there were no issues

 I am usually the opposition of new stuff that are introduced to be a revolution which makes everything better. This began after several new ideas that were suppose to improve my life and didn't. In case of biking I could remind myself shimano airlines, 29 inch wheel size, narrow chain with more gears. In my opinion all of the examples resulted in money only instead of any improvement. I watched cars going from very cool 20 years ago and earlier, to plastic shit which is offered nowadays. I don't want bikes to become commercial, fashionalbe items which are so posh to posses. I want them to be able to take me into wild and back. This does not demand iphone attached to the bar with useless apps. Water resistance is just one of possible criteria. There is another where to get power from? Heavy batteries which challenge the memory to get them charged before riding, or changing the rider into recharger to power apps that are not needed. I have enough beautiful views around me when biking. Afterall I don't believe electronics is needed in objects like a knives, cars, bikes, garden tools etc. It is the first thing proven to go wrong, and just not necessary. More and more I get to thinking that bikes are quite perfect already, but there are producers and inventors who need to earn money so they try to reinvent the shape of a wheel again, and again, just to make us buy, buy, buy.

 Except for the fact that the technology at the "optimum price/performance ratio" is trickled down from those products that "cost more than the original two products", so before you go singing Hail to Chief to second tier products remember that they were last years top of the line.

 The problem with your logic and a lot of other people's logic on Pinkbike is that this stuff isn't aimed squarely at the 'average' rider. You are correct saying that the optimum price/performance lies at that Ultegra/XT or 105/SLX and for 'average' riders that's all that they need. For people who do have money and enjoy spending it on bikes and/or accessories this stuff is awesome and they love it. So no, not a stupid marketing plan, just not aimed at 15 year old boys.

 I've been told many times on the internet to not hate such high tech as it will trickle down and if I doubt if it's any good I should not bash it before I try it. I guess then that in 3-4 yearswe will see it in 105 or Alivio for half of the price... this is what technology does they said. I'm not sure though but I will reserve myself this time... I want wireless brakes...

 ITT You're 15 if you don't have much $ to spend on bikes

 The electronic Dura Ace groupo is $4200 USD. Mechanical version, $2700. I'm thinking $80 will break the bank. Ha.. Not really. I remember going for training of the old Mavic Zap electronic shifters, like 20 years ago? Still have the service manuals. Rode a bike that had Mavic on it for a week or so. Cool I guess. It worked just fine. I just rode new bikes with Shimano's DA and Ultegra. Performance was fine. It all works. I still don't get why some people are pushing it as being so much better. Because I didn't have to use force to shift? Multiple shifter locations? That's all I can see and it's fancy. I guess it's like taking a great blender and adding a gas (or petrol) engine to it. It's still a blender, just more expensive. I asked about the default, if it stops shifting, doesn't sound fun at all. I had one of my mtb shifter's go out about 12 miles from home once. I was able to shift it to make the climbs to get home. Wrapped the cable around a small stick, can't do that with Di.

I can't see electric being lighter or more durable then the mechanical counterpart, Alivio vs Alivio, at the $1000 price point. Trickle down or not...

 1x10-42 gives you less range than 2x11-36. running 1x11-36 isn't ideal for everyone

 you learn something new everyday eh?

 Shifting wires? the electronic Di-2 thats currently in the market