What Tyler Found: The Outdoor Demo Day Two - Interbike 2015

 Its the most heinous bike I think Ive ever seen. Cant wait to read the comments!

 Really? I thought they finally 'nailed' it with this one. Looks pretty good for an Ellsworth.

 a-m-c, saying it "Looks pretty good for an Ellsworth", is like saying that you're looking pretty healthy for someone with the plague.

 How DARE you a-m-c!

 Front end - hot. Rear end - not.

 The Ellsworth Dare looks like a cheap frame that has been made in China & is been sold on Alibaba.com.

 Nice from a far, but far from nice.

 at least Ellsworth didn't put a 100mm stem on this one too...

 Someone has to own one of these - wud love to know how it rides! They sure have to do something right if they keep the core design and are in business for that many years!

 She's a butterass alright.

 It looks like they took they front end of a demo and combined it with their ancient linkage design and stole the logo straight from Edelbrock. Here I found another picture of the dare that shows the similarities.

www.pinkbike.com/photo/12688782

Good Job Ellsworth lol

 It looks like that linkage is too thin for DH riding maybe? Does it come up and hit the seat when the suspension bottoms out?

 I think I'd be less embarrassed to be seen on the Elliptigo

 I'd try it. Definitely ill-proportioned but if it performs nicely, screw it. Might even be fun.

 Marzocchi needs to consult Ellsworth on their tips to sustain.

 Sexy! but in the prison sex way (man prison too not the sweet female tv prison)

 Ellsworth. The mullet of bikes. Business in the front, party in the back. I mean the shitty kind of party.....The kind where someone puts their dick in the mashed potatoes

 I have never seen an Ellsworth frame I actually liked

 @theedon you just the won the internet for today. Go stick your dick in some mashed potatoes to celebrate.

 Ellsworth is getting my lunch and dry cleaning bill today!

 pray to jeebus you never bottom the suspension hard. rocker looks pretty easily wreckable

 Finally. I've been waiting for a DH bike that I can hang my panniers from!

 I can't stop looking at that QR.....

 thats a nice carbon stinky with a dh fork right there

 63˚ HTA, basic bitch QR rear axle skewer...

 Ha

 For a new DH bike, I'll be looking Ellswhere.

 All this hate on the Ellsworth...usually that comes always from Knolly fanboys ... plain ridiculous

 I'd rather ride my old Kona Stinky...

 It's evolving alright , but in the wrong direction.

 yeah, one good solid drop and you've lost half of your bike...

 I totally agree with you, front is AMAZING, rear is ugly as sh..

 @fantaman well maybe you mean other 90% of the bike made in China were cheap too, including Specialized, Trek and even Santa Cruz. Ironically that Ellsworth Carbon frame was made in a cheap US carbon factory I think.

 I've haven't seen an Ellsworth on the trails in at least 5 years. Who is riding these bikes? Honest question.

 I guess the upside of buying an ellsworth is no one will steal your bike

 i reckon it's DEvolving

 basically the equivalent of having your cake and shitting on it so no one will ever eat it

 Hey, guys. I'm hearing everyone here. And as crazy as it sounds, all the brutal stuff has some value for us. It hurts sometimes, and opinions are just that. But what I'm trying to do is distill the meaningful critiques and relay this info to our design and engineering guys. Would it be better if no one talked about our brand anymore? Or if no one posted comments when our products were featured? I don't think so.

So rest assured, we're aware of where we stand with a lot of folks. But we're all riders too, and we're building a new team here to make better bikes than ever before. And that we can eventually make our carbon bikes here in the US is something that we're proud to work towards. Anyway... to clarify a few technical questions that popped up here in this thread:

1. Our new rockers are stiffer than the last generation rockers even if they don't look like it. As you might expect, we ran computer models on all of this stuff and confirmed the numbers with successful physical testing of last year's vs this year's bikes that show better numbers all the way around.

2. The Dare rearend gets 200mm of travel with anyone's 2.4" tire without buzzing the seat tube. No problemo.

3. That QR that you see on the drive side is simply part of our 12x148mm thru-axle. It's actually a pretty kickass system. The QR threads in easily after the axle is inserted so you can give it some axial preload and keep everything snug. Unlike a Shimano 12mm axle (but like a Syntace X-12 or RockShox Maxle) ours takes out radial play as well. Unlike any other axle system, ours uses a tapered hex shape that keys into the dropout. Likewise, the hanger on the drive side is keyed into that dropout with a tapered hex. This eliminates dropout torsion about the axle. It's paired with a similar, keyed system at the front of the rocker to lock the whole rearend and keep it operating in a single plane. It's stiffer than last year's rearend by a long shot.

-Ryan

 As a consumer, and judging by the comments here, I think a rebranding of the company would be order, no? The Ellsworth name seems to carry such negative baggage with it, then maybe changing the name would be a needed decision to make.

 Everyone's a critic. And sometimes people hop onto a joke in a thread for entertainment, but it's also real people feel the brunt of it. I can't claim to be able to do anything better so while I jest, I also appreciate people doing their thing and making more bikes.

 That's a good question, @WayneParsons, but we're rolling with what we've got. We're happy to be involved with a brand that has a lot of good history as well. My main intention is to let everyone know that we're listening. And as the Pinkbike crowd has said many times before, we need to pay attention to what riders want to ride. We all need to keep it in perspective, right?

And @DHDH, there's no hard feelings. What we've learned (the hard way) is that Abe Lincoln was right. You can't please all the people all the time. We're going to strive to continue making our bikes better and to stay within sight of new ideas and trends. Hell, we'd like to lead the way sometime. We're doing some pretty cool stuff with laminate design right now. While it's not in our 2016 range, our future stuff promises to change the way our bikes are regarded.

And as for the jokes, sure we get it. The "dick in the mashed potatoes" was truly funny and caught me off guard. I'm glad I didn't have a mouthful of my lunch while I read that. I should send that guy a t-shirt.

 Real evil would be to put the rear end of the ellsworth on one of those eliptigo things.

 Ellesworth is probably a bike industry decoy. Release and ugly bike to get people talking, meanwhile the rest of the industry is hiding in the back about to unleash a new pedal standard

 You said new pedal standard and somebody had an idea. You started it. I blame you. Of course, if the pot the beating in the crank they could go totally flat and have good rolling...

 Because Session looks like an old Kona and they are all gone because they all cracked or disintegrated in various other ways. So everyone have memory holes in their heads, what makes them think that first there was a light and the God made a Session.

 They actually have an advertisement for their Magneto glasses with Vincent van Gogh wearing them.

 www.coloribus.com/adsarchive/prints/lazer-helmets-van-gogh-17032505

 If they could come up with something like that, that also worked with full face helmets, it would actually be pretty cool.
I wear prescription glasses, and it's a pain to find glasses/sunglasses that work well with full face helmets.
OTG goggles don't solve the problem, and I can't wear contact lenses.

 try the elastic band sport spec's (www.google.com/search?q=sport+specs&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=1128&tbm=isch&imgil=2h2BSaCW-rIAcM%253A%253BxOEHbV1PHCOD4M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.libertysport.com%25252Fmaxx-21.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=2h2BSaCW-rIAcM%253A%252CxOEHbV1PHCOD4M%252C_&usg=__YDgVur90mR0FazgABP3RS4kMK64%3D&ved=0CFMQyjdqFQoTCJWPp6nm-8cCFVIqiAod7nkJjQ&ei=S4H5VdW9PNLUoATu86XoCA#imgrc=2h2BSaCW-rIAcM%3A&usg=__YDgVur90mR0FazgABP3RS4kMK64%3D) with your prescription, and a bit of velcro on the inside of the liner. Might even work!

 Pretty lame

 Decorn, talk to your optician for highly curved sport rx glasses. If not available locally you can always look online (keywords - sport rx, safety rx). I got myself WileyX P17 frame with polycarbonate lenses that goes nicely with my Bluegrass Explicit. Generally most frames that closely follow curvature of your face and don't have bulky earpieces should be ok under full face helmet.

Thing with every day rx glasses is that, in order to have wide enough field of vision using lenses with small curvature, the lenses got to be a bit wider so in most cases earpieces try to enter the space between head and foam in helmet at weird angle and that either don't work at all or is damn uncomfortable.

 Thanks @PaFelcio! Right now I'm actually using some Shimano glasses that work OK with my full face. They have a clip on for prescription lenses.

 I agree. Every time I see their frame design, it conjures up an image of some bastard old man arguing about why they don't need to change the design

 The problem with Ellsworth the company is Ellsworth the guy.

 @Nygaard You forgot Orange. Still the same (feel free to add adjectives as "ugly", "outdated", etc) design, and still awfully expensive considering they are keeping nearly the same design

 @zede The difference with Orange is that their geometry is usually bang on the money or even a bit ahead of the curve, so even though the suspension design is simple they handle really well. By contrast, if the bottom bracket were any higher on that Ellsworth you'd need a ladder to get on.

 I agree only on the price criticism of Orange. I personally wouldn't ever ride one because yes I do think single-pivot is a by-gone technology but it's not utterly heinous and has it's merits. On top of that, they at least look the part and have modern geometry. Horrendously overpriced though... much like Ellsworth.

 yea. i lol'd inside when i read that.

 yeah the evil bike is sweet. made me tilt my head to the right for a few minutes.

 Probably....my point exactly

 That's the sad part, everyone hates on it without knowing How the bike rides, I own a evolve carbon and it's my fav bike, better than all the 10k overpriced scams I've had over the years. The company might not be the best but your buying the bike, not the company.

 I've owned 2 Ellsworth bikes, an Epiphany and a Method. Truthfully, I only paid for one. I won the Method in a contest. The bikes actually ride quite well, even if they are not the most modern or attractive aesthetically. I think most people that have spent time on their bikes would agree that they ride well. With that said, and based on the current selection of rad performing, and beautiful, bikes on the market today, I wouldn't even consider buying any of Ellsworth's offerings at the moment.

 Two years ago at crankworx I put my v10c aside and took a demo lap on an Ellsworth dare (was the only demo bike always available lol). It really honestly impressed me, I thought it cornered really well and pedalled nice too. Seemed like a great ride, and going from the V10 carbon straight to the dare it didn't feel at all like I was getting on a crappier or more awkward handling bike. That version of the dare frame was way too ugly for me though. But I must be the only person who doesn't mind the look of these new frames.

 Last Ellsworth I rode, the front wheel hit my forward foot when I turned the bars. No thank you.

 I have a moment as a spare bike. Suspension performance is brilliant - super active, pedals well, brakes well. It's a 19" frame and with an offset shock bushing and angled headset it is similar geo to a medium sb66. It's a great bike.

 No....they're shit!! Hence hardly anyone buys them and you must need your head examining by a qualified neurosurgeon if you do!!,

 @mmakuch is agree. I bought aa 2010 dare from Pinkbike offices. It was great spec saint and fox 40s etc. I honestly liked how it ride.

Over the next two summers I also rode a v10, flatline, operator, cove and a couple of others. The flatline and cover felt heavy and old fashioned. The dare was miles better than them. The operator felt equally good and the carbon v10 was better but not shockingly so. I certainly didn't feel like I was riding a bike that was leagues ahead.

The date is a pretty good bike. Just ugly as f*ck.

 @mmakuch - hard to take someone seriously who thinks a v10c (or any V10 for that matter) was matched for performance by an Ellsworth.

Next up you're going to tell you can't tell the difference between Coke and Diet Coke.

 If an Ellsworth came anywhere remotely near the performance of a Santa Cruz they would be making world cup podiums on a regular basis regardless of race discipline.

 Can you read? I said it was better but it didn't feel substantially so.

In other words the Ellsworth actually felt good. Maybe it was not as fast as the v10 but it didn't feel as far behind as the cove or flatline. Both of which were disgracefully shit in comparison to the v10.

PS. As for being unable to achieve a podium on an Ellsworth. Jack Reading, who is a very good but not exactly top class rider qualified 12th the at Val di Sole on an Ellsworth back in 2011. I'm pretty sure someone like Gwin or Minaar could have won on that bike if Jack could qualify top 15.

PPS if it's hard to take someone who has ridden all of the bikes being mentioned here seriously, then how are we supposed to take the opinion of someone who has probably never ridden any of them?

 @miff. I dunno man a lot comes down to brand loyalty, money and marketing. Sounds like you might be loyal based on your ride choice. Nothing wrong with that, but world Cup sponsorships aren't a great indication of how well a bike rides. From things I've read on this site people are very concerned with looks and I doubt many of those people have ridden the bike in question. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Ellsworth ride was at least comparable to a v-10, or if an Ellsworth was under the right rider it did well at pro races. KHS has riders that on local trails are basically as fast as Gwin, but how many people in the world Cup ride a KHS?

 i agree they're friggin' stupid. but has anyone ridden one? we used to get some in our shop for repairs, they freakin' fly!

 I've been seeing them in more than just the "old guy trying to get a workout" sense on some of the climbs up our local road bike mountain. That's no mean feat either, Mt. Lemmon has challenging climbs.

 My favorite is still the Rowbike.

 That Elliptigo did the SPY BWR Waffle ride faster than most (140+ miles over pavement and dirt in Southern California). Yeah, they're funny looking, but haul @$$ on gravel. Remember, the outdoor demo also has road bikes that other pubs cover...don't think they're not posting that photo of the Ellesworth and laughing hysterically at it...like we are.

 You honestly need to try one, I thought it was pretty retarded too till I tried it too and now I own two of them. If you contact Elliptigo and they have a dealer in your area they will set up a free demo.

 I saw one the other day while I was on my motorcycle. I almost crashed from laughing so hard!

 Some things may be good, but they make you look so retarded they just aren't worth it.

 Here is another take on it from Holland. www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8G3xxjiz-0

 I was thinking that guy must've spent a season in Morzine

 It's just a whole ton of people who decided to hate the Ellsworth for no specific reason, the looks aren't the best but the bikes are extremely efficient and ride well. I would like to see people hate on Santa cruz's "women" bike like which is the same bike with no changes, just renamed.

 When I'm looking for a new DOWNHILL bike my first priority is how well it pedals. ;

 I can't find the geometry chart for the elliptinope!

 Got my kids some Zike's (www.zike.net) which are basically stair-steppers on wheels. Quite a bit of fun, actually. No idea how an elliptical on wheels would work though..

 Sooo... Woudja rather: Ellsworth vs ElliptiGO?

 If you go to the Florida Keys these things are everywhere. I think the silver crowd rely likes them.

 My buddy has one, he's a good rider, but has a bad hip so has to change up once in a while. Actually kind of fun to ride. I flatted the rear trying to jump it. Have to take it apart to fix the damn thing. Definately more of a road biker thing though.

 @bishopsmike

Now that is asking the real questions!

 There are plenty ElliptiNo zipping around town. Always by older gentlemen who are medically mandated to wear helmets even while grocery shopping or touching their winkies while peering through schoolyard fences. Frank and beans!

 I've ridden an eliptigo 20 miles up the San Gabriels in southern California. They are stupid, but they are fun, like an amusement ride.

 l love food trucks and we have some good ones. l just get tired of them after awhile. it should be a rule for food trucks to switch towns after a couple months. l would like to see these trucks here

 The rear end also doesn't have a pviot... it just flexes for days

 @mackster23 If you look closely, you can see the pivot on the non-drive side chain stay. The stay protector appears to be covering the pivot on the drive side. You can also clearly see that the yoke at the front of the stay is machined aluminum, not carbon as the seat stays and dropout section is.

 You got it right, @godfather. The drive side pivot between the dropout and chainstay is hidden under the neoprene protector. And yeah, the chainstay is aluminum while the seatstay and front triangle are carbon.

 I guess a light shower and a gentle breeze is a strange thing to some and worth filming, we call it "a dry and sunny weekend"

 Do Voodoo still sell bikes in North America?

 Does Ellsworth still sell any bikes anywhere? Thought karma and the world ran Tony out of business.

 Yeah my thoughts exactly who actually owns Ellsworth as I have no idea who would actually buy any of there bikes with the way they look.

 some Joker

 @heavyp some people in here might even own an Ellsworth bike as you my good friend are getting neg propped.......
Only a blind man with shithouse taste would buy one of those things........ lol

 It's not getting anywhere close to mighty Krutor Hrotor

 Good customer service goes along ways.... bad customer service lasts forever.
Internet Karma rocks!
Ellsworth....why bother?

 Plush yes. rideable no...

 Doesn't matter how fun something is, image is everything.

 Since this article was from Sea Otter, I am going to guess it is the Prototype to the bike above. Front triangle is the same but, different color/graphics.

 What are you on about?

 Never ridden an Ellsworth. I agree it looks way different than anything else out there, and after this much time with everybody spending lots of time and money on developing rear suspension layouts, I have a hard time believing that it could be a radically better solution without anyone else having gone there. But they're sticking with it - so what's the story? What's the supposed benefit that this thing does better than other layouts? It seems like this would require a longer rear triangle (which isn't all that fashionable in these days of short chainstays and long front centers)? Genuinely curious about that.

 An arrogant and close-minded creator.

 Mavic are probably annoyed seeing as they came up with a wireless drivetrain a decade or so back

 Think they should release a DOSS that's doesn't fail in 3 mos like the 4 I had did.

 Won't matter if it fails as long as they put kashima on it.

 the cheapest GX groupset is the same price as the XT stuff and the XT stuff is much much better than the cheaper GX, in fact the XT is much better than the more expensive GX stuff so basically XT is cheaper, better value and much better performing than GX.

 Confused? How about the same in Japanese

 Shimano XT is MUCH nicer than GX. That's all you need to know