Banshee Prime - CNC 29er bits!

Feb 16, 2011 at 8:51
by Rob Dunnet  

It's Prime Time ... We at Banshee are really excited to see pieces of the new Banshee Full Suspension 29er showing up at the factory. After seeing the drawing in 2-D and then 3-D it is nice to be able to see some actual pieces.


Keith (Banshee Engineer/Owner) has been in Taiwan for that last week and will be here for another two weeks to make sure that the Prime goes together the way he envisioned it. He will also be doing a lot of the 2011 product quality control.


All of the bits will get pieced together later in the week and I will get Keith to put together a more detailed explanation of the Prime and his thoughts behind the design.

Adjustable Dropouts - will be available in 10x135 and 12x150.
Adjustable Dropouts - will be available in 10x135 and 12x150.
Linkage - will be connected with full titanium axles on sealed bearings
Linkage - will be connected with full titanium axles on sealed bearings
B.B. Shell and Main Pivot - similar to what is used on the Rune, Spitfire and Rampant
B.B. Shell and Main Pivot - similar to what is used on the Rune, Spitfire and Rampant
Shock Mount - also similar to some of the current Banshee models.
Shock Mount - also similar to some of the current Banshee models.

We should have some more complete pictures soon, so stay tuned!

-Keep Riding.

Rob Dunnet
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69 Comments

  • + 35
 It's funny to read all the negative thoughts and opinions about the comming of 29ers. Not to long ago I was getting into the downhill side of riding listening to the same gripes. People saying that "It's a crime to ride a lift to the top of the mountain and not pedal your way up." "Those bikes have way to much suspension." You have to be open to change, especially in the biking world. If we all had the same attitude that some of you have now, we'd all be riding bikes with 54" front wheels and 12" rear. Doesn't mean that you have to buy a new 29er right now, just wait and see what it brings to the biking world. Be open to change, you never know what it'll do for your form of riding.
  • + 5
 Nicely put, Mr. Fishbone08. Mine is but a single perspective, and is little more than that. I remember when a 30 lb full-suspension bike was considered atrocious, even absurd. That was a while ago, mind you. Kripes, I recall when Zap Espinosa of MTB Action fame saying bolt-on grips were unnecessary, and look around now. The only thing that remains the same is change. Right now, I'm not partial to, very specifically speaking, the look of 29" bikes. That's pretty much the short of it. Aesthetics aside, I agree with you, one ought be open to change.
  • + 7
 QUICKLY !!! steel the dimensions !!!!
  • + 5
 then sell them to kona hahaha
  • + 5
 This is a great out look. I am a nay sayer towards 29ers, but that's just me taking time to adjust to change. The benefits are evident, as are a few drawbacks. Thankfully one of the biggest draw backs was components and geo that could handle the riding in Western Canada, that all has changed. Hell today our tech editor was out riding on the new Norco Shinobi 29er and came back pumped. I think that we'll all find bikes that work well for us and how/where we ride, just sometimes the new shoe may fit better if we're willing to try it on.
  • + 1
 Few Drawbacks? Even if they fix those HUGE drawbacks. At least one magazine have agree that 29ers make great bikes for beginners and intermediate riders.(Mountain Bike Action Magazine)
Brandon Sloan form Specialized has worked with the idea and he can tell you that the numbers are not there for DH.
the big wheel only has an advantage on the open parts of a course. The speed on turns and the amount of power that takes to get the bike back to momentum speed is not there.
[Reply]
  • + 7
 Unsolicited opinion to follow. 29'ers make plenty of sense with respect to rolling resistance and undulating terrain and this and that and all the other stuff. However, aesthetically speaking...ugh! Form follows function, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yes. Some dig on the wagon wheels, and to that I say, "Your opinion is as valid as any." Mine is valid also, to me at any rate. They don't do much for me. But I do like CNC machined goodies -- and those bits look tasty. Is it strange to not like the look of a 29" bike, yet very much like the individual parts that make a two-niner? Stepping down form my pedestal for a moment here, at the end of the day a bicycle is a gestault, more than the sum of its parts, a tool for having fun. I bet riding a big ol' goofy-looking full-squish 29" rig would be a blast.
  • + 2
 Great Man, Here are some of the comments from Mountain Bike Action Magazine last issue:
This bike is great if you have not developed the skill to ride the 26er!
If you are a new to the sport and want to ride tame or easy trails, this bike is for you!
This bike has the JRA factor (just ridding along)
Goes great over obstacles at slow speeds!
We all agree! Its a great bike for beginner riders!
  • + 4
 Who cares if downhill is easier with a 29er? Downhill isn't supposed to be easy! If there was no challanges what fun would it be?
  • + 2
 perceived as a whole, Gestalt.
  • + 4
 Don't worry guys, Banshee do plenty of 26" models... this frame is just for the guys who want 29" option. As long as people are having fun when riding, then whats wrong with that!?
  • + 5
 Sometimes I wonder what would happen if someone like Gee Atherton or Sam Hill won world champs or the overall world cup title on a 29er? Would the people demand 29er DH bikes? Would every major bike manufacturer scramble to produce a 29er DH race bike? Would some people still call it stupid or inapplicable to DH or would they suddenly change their tune? I can't really say but with the way people are quick to follow marketing hype and trends I have a feeling that 29er DH bikes could easily be propelled into popularity if a prominent figure in DH racing started posting good results on one. Despite marketing and trends in my opinion the answer to almost every question regarding bikes or components is this: It depends...
  • + 1
 alanworley, should Gee or Sam (or Troy) win the world champs or the overall title on a 29er...I will instantly change my mind; I am that fickle. *Smile.* The way our good buddy Mr. T-Maine suggested above is true, it takes time to adjust to change, for some I mean. Way back in the day when we never had anti-gravity skateboards or 90210, bikes with 72-degree head-angles, 130 mm long stems and 2" travel forks looked bad-ass -- yep, sh!t changes. Speaking of change, and no joke, I'd love to see a 29er raced on the world scene. Full-on DH 29" bikes already exist; I wonder who will make the leap?
  • + 1
 Numbers dont ad, the chaistays are to big! Intense is working on a bike that has a smaller rear wheel cause their current 29r cant turn fast enough! Plus their current 29r has a problem that plagues other 29rs, The wheels dont quite bent like the others, the spokes are too long so they colapse just like a 700cc
  • + 1
 Those are some very valid points. I can imagine a few remedies to strengthen the wheels and address some other issues but in the end and after a ton of R and D you might just end up with a bike that doesn't really outperform or even match the performance of a more basic 26 inch DH rig. If anything the current lack of 29er Dh bikes from major manufacturers is an indication that at this point in time the concept just isn't practical. There are few out there and we have even seen some prototypes but I guess time will tell where the 29 inch wheel ends up in the world of DH.
[Reply]
  • + 3
 I´m not too much into 29ers, but this is going to be: WOW! Looking foreward to see the complete proto.
In my opinion this new KS-Link-Suspensiondesign could be a very big step ahead for Banshee - imagine different Travelsettings via Shockmount, imagine different Geosettings independent from Travelsettings via Dropouts, even different chainstaylengths could be realised with them!
Dreaming of a Wildcard with all these attributes ...
[Reply]
  • + 3
 would like to see a 142 option, instead, for the easy of use on the riders end and also most 135mm currently and definitely in the future will be convertible to 142. also, 142 gets nearly all the stiffness benefits of 150 but without negatively effected chainline and q-factor of 150.

also, travel adjustment from the 130 say maybe 160mm would be nice. i can see a lot of folks (myself included) wanting to run the dorado 29 on this bike (not so much for travel but for increased stiffness and tire clearance. as the 140 reba has pretty tight clearance with a 2.5 and that is a tire size that would make sense on this bike) and a longer travel setting would better match the long legs of the dorado...
[Reply]
  • + 2
 The bike was designed in 3D using Solidworks. The factory uses 2D drawings for a lot of things and that is where I first saw the drawings. So for me personally I first saw the 2D drawings and then Keith posted the 3D drawings online.
[Reply]
  • + 4
 Banshee engineering is AMAZING! When i see that kind of scene, im proud to be a owner of a MORPHINE.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Nice work keith especially with respect to the transparency of the design process and your enormous reservoir of patience in accumulating the knowledge; comments from here and from MTBR
  • + 1
 Haha, nah, all input is good, and helps me get closer to optimal design first time... so probably saves me work in the long run, and gives riders what they (or at least majority) want. Is win win.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 It's cool to see those scematical sketches, looks real legit. But it's still Devinci for life-I'm also sure Devinci does the same thing.
  • + 2
 I'm pretty sure most of the companies does sketches before they start welding their bikes Wink
  • + 1
 I know but it's cool to see them.
  • + 2
 Transparent design is imho a great idea. Devinci, Banshee and a few others do it. Gives customers trust in the company and allows the more tech savy ones to give feedback even before the bike is done. Both sides profit. Not to mention it's good and cheap marketing Wink
  • + 1
 That's what i was trying to say, gives it a nice look, great for the techy guys and easy advertising.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 I am so very stoked on this... I bought a Paradox this year just to get started on my 29er build and will be definitely upgrading to thei when it gets released.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 god 29er was the worst idea ever sorry but thats just my opinion it will make downhill bikes look like fucking road bikes or some shit it will just look plain weird.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 Keep up the good work Keith, Rob, and Jay! Those bits look baller - finished product is going to be mint, as expected from Banshee these days!
[Reply]
  • + 1
 been looking forward to seeing a 29er built to do more than just xc, and personally, i like the look- makes riding large frames look less clownlike haha
  • + 1
 what are the advantages of the 29 inch wheels
  • + 2
 did you really just imply that 29'ers are LESS clownlike?? i thought you had to be a clown to have one in the first place.
  • + 1
 no i wanna know what the big difference is cos all i can think is that the turning circle will be bigger and that they will go over rough terrain more smoothly
  • + 0
 the fact that the big wheels roll easier is about the only thing that can be said about those goofy clownish bikes. if you have to corner hard or go over some real trail features, the higher stance and MUCH weaker wheels will only hold you back from the real deal. at this point i can only see them getting use by the XC, or otherwise bunny hill riders.
  • + 1
 hmm so they make it harder to manover the bike and they are weaker so what is the point? seriously
  • + 1
 The bike looks great. A Banshee Beauty. I would like to see the 142x12 rear spacing. Used for its application, I'm sure this bike will rule the trail and them some. reallybigmantis: Not a higher stance, a lower stance. Your height on the bike is realative to the BB height. Every 29 I ridden has a lower BB than its 26 counterpart. Once the handlebar height is compensated, your lower to the ground and sitting more inside a 29 wheel. More traction on the tires is undeniable. Bottom line, 29s rail. I think the Prime could be one of the best. The 142x12 hub will best strength/weight ratio for most wheel/hub companys out there and will surge to the top of the market (imo) in the future on higher spec bikes. Almost already evident on the big brands top Enduro, Trail and All Mtn. I believe the new Norco proto DH rig is running a 12x142 for the same reason. Anyways, stoked to give that bike a try at Interbike.
  • + 1
 idk, the axle point, (therefore the tipping point) of the bike is a full 1.5 inches higher than usual. the feeling i got when i rode one was that it cornered like crap. guys are moving their BB in increments of 1/4" for a better feel, 1.5" threw the whole thing off for me, but i have a more aggressive riding style. for guys that just want to cruise i'm sure 29" is a blast, but thats where the story ends. i don't believe they will dominate any kind of rough technical riding. i'm willing to be proved wrong but i've not seen ANY proof so far, beyond guys reciting the promotional lingo and saying how they THINK it would be great...
[Reply]
  • - 1
 Strange thing... Nowadays everything is design as 3D models and if necessary is transformed to 2D drawings. So why first 2D drowings, than 3D? Banshee what CAD software are you using?
  • + 4
 Well 3D sketching should be used for everything. First of all, before tooling, its impossible to hand a computer to a skilled machinist and say "make this", throw them a blueprint with proper dimensioning and they're off to the races.

No matter how much we all love 3D Cad, you have to know where it came from, and why it is useful too.
  • + 1
 This is a very simplified version how the 3D thing works:

1/ Model the frame parts in 3D
2/ Assemble the frame parts into a 3D model of the frame
3/ Peform analysis on the 3D model (rear end motion, shock rates, finite element analysis, ...)
3/ Produce the 2D drawings from the 3D models
4/ Cut CNC parts, manufacture tubes, weld, assemble

Basically - the 2D drawings are created from the 3D model. Keith is as up to date with his processes as anybody.
[Reply]
  • + 2
 Very intriguing!!! Everything looks very beautiful! RidEOn!
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  • + 2
 sounds like a snack... like i want some CNC 29er bits!
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  • + 1
 Legit. Digging the dual options for the drop outs and the burly design. Stoked to see the the final product!
[Reply]
  • + 3
 sickkkkkkk
  • - 3
 My trail bike for 2012 in the making... Sweet!
  • + 1
 cnc is pure sex
  • + 1
 I'm really stoked to see this finished
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  • + 1
 Looks amazing! Raw finish on the MK-I batch please!
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  • + 1
 Looking dead sexy guys...can't wait to see the first proto....
[Reply]
  • + 1
 very VPP looking linkage.
  • + 3
 VPP uses 2 Counter rotating links. Banshee uses to parallel links, just like cove and canfield brothers, and many other brands
  • + 3
 I love the fanboys. I know 1 popular company therefore all others are ripp offs...
  • - 1
 Spaced, I'm not surprised to hear that you "like the fanboys" seeing as you're clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed. I know of many popular mountain bike frame manufacturers, however, at no point did I ever allude to this new Banshee being a so called "rip-off". Rather, I was interested to see a different type of linkage system being incorporated by them and I mentioned that to me it resembled a VPP style linkage. Thechad09, I'm not sold that Banshee's design is a parallel link system, but it is not a copy of a VPP system either, it's more of an updated configuration of a similar concept. A true parallel design is something like a GT LTS I would think, but I'm interested to see the next stages of this Banshee.
  • + 3
 It's nice that you decide to attack me and basicly call me stupid yet you can't notice it's a parrarel linkage design. Look at the legend where the links are bigger and it would maybe be easier for your "sharp" eye or any other banshee where it's more evident. As pointed - also see canfield.

Not to mention - system is not based on linkage looks but on axle paths and leverage ratios. It's only Santa Cruz pattent trolling that gives us a very broad pattent on the vpp Wink
  • + 2
 Not to mention - I rode a VPP bike. Now i ride a VF4B bike. Very different feel.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 i dont even want to think of doing those drawings
  • + 1
 lol i do CNC machining, and create drawings.
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  • + 1
 Looks great. Can't wait to ride it.
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  • + 1
 Wow the 135/150 adjustable rear dropout! Cough Cough intense G3.
  • + 1
 the big point of the G3 drop out is not its ability to change axel size but to change geometry by pivoting 1 end of the drop out to adjust it. devinci used a "G3" style drop out on there old willson when they first came out allowing you to change from 24" to 26" rear wheels without changing geo.
this style of drop out allowing you to change from 135 and 150 rear ends is common among many brands.
  • + 1
 They were not the first. Cough Cough fanboy.
  • + 1
 You are repeating yourself! Someone is the fanboy? Not saying it's the first adjustable dropout just saying it looks like an upside down intense dropout.
Just commenting on how companies are copying each other and there seems to be an absence of new ideas lately.
  • + 1
 So because it works it is bad? Instead of an industry wide standard interchangable dropout where one fits many frames (if the trend continues) you would prefer innovation for the sake of innovation? Do you really want your zillion head tube standards, zillion seatpost diameters? I'd rather prefer more standarisation less gimmicks.

Also there was more innovation 5+ years ago because the designers knew less, they made more mistakes and that means many wild designs. When everybody catches up with what works of course there will be less innovation. Look at any market. I'm pretty sure you don't complain there is less innovation in cars compared to the 1920's Wink
  • + 1
 Progress is made by experimentation and innovation. Without it we would still be driving around in Model T's.
[Reply]
  • + 1
 crushing guys.
  • + 1
 Hi,

Why-o-why no 135x12 and Syntace X12 dropout as well?

Cheers!
I.
  • + 1
 We can add those options if there is demand...but currently most people still seem to want the more traditional standards, because they probably have wheels that they want to use already.
[Reply]

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