Reality Redesigned: R2
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What if you suddenly had the tools to invoke some real change in the world of mountain biking design? Now put your idea in front of the Pinkbike community, as well as over 5 million design and engineering students. Add in the overwhelming support from basically the entire North American manufacturing and engineering world and BAM!
Pinkbike and The Edge Factor are proud to bring you R2 - Reality Redesigned, the ultimate design contest. R2 is what happens when the biggest names in North American manufacturing, design and engineering throw open the doors and allow both mountain bikers and designers alike to have at it.
Have a design problem? We're looking for any and all bike related design issues so we can define what categories need solutions. Grab an iPhone, Contour, GoPro, whatever you got, and send us your thoughts. If you've ever wanted to speak up, now is the time!
DEFINING THE DESIGN CATEGORIES
This is the first stage - let's identify the problems. The PB community will have the opportunity to highlight some of mountain biking's current design issues. The idea here is for Pinkbike users to submit self-shot videos that outline issues and problems that they as riders are experiencing on their bikes. This is not the time to submit actual designs, it's the time for Pinkbike users to influence how this contest is developed.
Pinkbike and the Edge Factor crew will go through the video suggestions and pick 3 or 4, establishing them as design categories for R2.
UPLOAD YOUR SUGGESTIONS
We are stoked to see what you come up with, it might be your problem that makes it into the R2 Design Contest! Keep your video short and concise...remember, not all designers will be from the biking world, so be as clear as possible! You can upload your suggestions here. Feel free to upload as many suggestions as you like.
THE R2 DESIGN CONTEST
Once the design categories have been defined, we will begin to accept design submissions. While the contest is open for anyone to participate, it is going to be heavily promoted in technology and engineering schools around the world. Expect full contest details, entry forms and prizing info soon.
WHO JUDGES THIS THING?
A panel of Riders, Manufacturers, Engineers, Designers and Educators will then go through the designs and grade them. Here is where it all gets interesting: every aspect of the show will be shot on POV cameras, edited and posted on Pinkbike. This will be an ongoing contest through until May 2012, when the top 3 designs in each category will make it to the semifinals.
RAPID PROTOTYPING
The semi finals will be rad - we take the designs from the drawing board, and we see them come alive in the additive manufacturing stage (3D printing). This next level technology physically constructs 3D geometries directly from 3D CAD designs.
MANUFACTURING & REAL WORLD TESTING
The epic conclusion will come when we see the winning design get manufactured in metal and tested by a pro rider. Testing grounds are TBD, but you can be sure it will be a dialed venue!
(Password protected)
Author Info:
Member since Aug 9, 2010
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dv56 0.045280
www.examiner.com/bicycle-transportation-in-twin-falls/chainless-bicycles-gates-carbon-drive-system
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www.pinkbike.com/news/Zerode-bikes-first-look-2011.html
= solution
The gears stopped working properly. Brand new. I had to peddle backwards to release mud 'n' stuff, then peddle so it would start changing gear again.
Now I use Rohloff 14 speed gear hubs. They're so sweet. Heavier hub, but I dont have to run 2 or 3 chain rings, just 1. I have no derailleir, no front mech or shifter and one less cable. So it all adds up. Oh and the chains shorter. So less weight there too.
Having an idea, a patent, any of that means absolutely NOTHING unless you are prepared to work for it, accept failure as it comes, and learn from your mistakes.
I think that this project has a lot of potential, a lot of kids have no idea how their bike parts, X Boxes, etc... are built. There are some amazing minds, ideas, machines, and manufacturing behind it all. The manufacturing world is an exciting one. I am the first to point out that if I didn't learn how to use a Bridgeport, a Lathe, a welder, I would be working in a lab like most of my classmates do. I built the first e*thirteen chainguides by hand using a milling machine and rotary table. I couldn't afford to pay someone to build them, so without those manufacturing skills it never would have materialized.
Point of all that is? This is a great opportunity and someone is going to get a great experience out of it. Go for it.
IT works but looking for help to make work better
aljoburr.pinkbike.com/channel/Rampage
YES WHO GETS CREDIT FOR THESE IDEAS ?
The point of my suggestion is an idler which must be adjustable for different frame designs (you move the mech clamp up and down to suit your frame etc) an idler has a specific purpose.
Hammerschmidt is heavy, high losses due to friction (as you would expect from that type of system), expensive, limited to 1 crankset (obviously), BB specific also.
The Mk1 Nomad suffers badly in the granny ring from pedal induced chain growth. For a Dh frame the Mythic (Banshe) Legend suffers also under high pedalling forces.
Information reference: www.pinkbike.com/news/luis-arraiz-interview-2011.html
And what about the idler wheel, what does it accomplish?
The suspension was designed to work in conjunction with the idler; you can say that it is the heart of the L.A. Link suspension. The bike has a very rearward axle path, and the instant center is located very close to the idler and that allows me to greatly reduce the amount of chain length growth and pedal induced torque. It basically separates the suspension movement from the pedal inputs and vice versa.
I'm a high school technology/engineering instructor. Students from schools and programs like mine will be designing solutions for common problems or perhaps very specific problems with your bikes. I'm a big supporter of what Edge Factor is doing, and the partnership they have formed with Pinkbike. I hope to see scores of problems large and small demonstrated and explained, so in the end young people have a chance to make at least make an attempt at solving a REAL problem vs. a theoretical problem from their physics textbook. Failure for them is absolutely an option in this, but this is a real chance for them to feel a part of something larger and cutting edge. I think all of you will be surprised what they come up with. They're young, crazy, uninhibited, and go for broke! (sounds like a certain bike community...) So I say this - make sure we submit problems first and foremost. I think you can have confidence in Edge Factor that there will be process in place for those ideas that are really hot. The young people submitting designs need tangible problems, and they can't wait to see what you guys come up with!
All my best,
Mark
www.pinkbike.com/video/221453
If your ideas are good and you believe they will work, continue to think about them and look at ways of prototyping cost effectively. Having the motivation to seek it out is the difference between an idea in your head and one you can hold and patent. I sat on an idea for about 2 years, it was a modification to a lawnmower. Prototyping was lengthy without much funding, but with the help of a small machinist shop, I got there in the end. I was able to sell it to a major brand in Oz (Victa). Maybe small jobbing/machinist shop in your area could help you out. You don't need the world's biggest tooling company to make these things happen.
What you should actually be fighting for is your name on the patent at the end of the day - with less focus on how things go down during the development. The idea maybe yours but if they invest it, they have the right to some of the profits from your idea... Why else would they be interested in investing? I agree that negotiations need to be made about ownership of the concept/patent/technology developed during the process but just saying "I want everything" sounds like an excuse not to enter to me.
All Dave Weagle has is a few patents and he seems to be doing pretty well!
as for doing it my self, ive designed the 2-d modeling already, moving onto the 3-d at the moment, many hours have already been spent perfecting each peice as i work though my main idea, also will be looking at ways of affordable local proto-typing, testing would be done by my self. however id be un-able to achive a patent on my design due to the fact if i was to produce it outside of the UK it would infringe many others, so leaving it unpatended would avoid massive legal fee's trying to write a patent that would actually protect my design since the mtb world is already awash with patents that actually mean the same thing but are worded differently.
as for DW, he's just good at writing patents, his idea's have only been stolen from else where are patented in a slightly different way then sold complanies stuff they could have done already if they were cleaver
and Edgefactor, as rasterman has pointed out, soon as its up on the web without patent, if the idea is any good, it will be stolen incredibly fast, there is no way you can protect against that, also why im still hesitent to enter, since any thing you guys choose has to be a money maker (lets face it, your using pinkbike as your product reaserch and development department effectivly with this compertition) whats to stop another company watching the entries and stealing the concepts any way? whats to stop you guys putting runner up entries into testing away from view? nothing. my instinct still tell's me to go alone on this....or atleast avoid publicising my idea's world wide without any protection.
So do what you like with your idea, for me....I am going to give as many people a shot at making their ideas come to life instead of letting them die in the dark abyss of inaction.(Getting in touch with my artistic side again...) I stress again, we are simply setting the stage: if there is no category that your "Big" and "secret" idea will fit into.... then you will not even have a shot at this... Just want that to be clear... - Jeremy
You think you see a problem with existing parts, you make a video explaining what you would like to see remedied and submit it. Easy. Then, when the panel chooses a variety of existing problems, they will work on improving the issue at hand. Pretty simple, nowhere did it say to post your issues in text.
I will post up a video soon as I find time to do a quick one.
Cheers again on this incredibly good idea guys!
Sorry if I came off the wrong way, just trying to help keep things on track.
-R.
but i get your point, if i was already making money with design and engineering i should also not give up my ideas that easy.
I don't think it would be possible to eliminate a chain tensioner in this situation but a sort of spring loaded chain guide would suffice and it would free up the swingarm a bit
in place of the cassette could be a grooved cone the the belt rides on, a small guide (not a deraileur) could move the belt across the cone to change the ratio
Think about it, a fully sealed geared drive, with no chance of bending rear mech, with efficency of standard chain drive, but stays clean so no losses of efficencency in poor riding conditions, at least it is perfect winter bike.
If you think I that am giving this idea away, forget it. Patent pending
I just would like every one to know that it can be done and should be done on more that one bike
www.pinkbike.com/photo/7234247
If my plan does work, I may make a prototype in my machine shop class by the end of the year.
Now it does aljoburr.pinkbike.com/channel/Rampage
Those solutions / designs will be legally protected and there will be a stake in those solutions for the designer. At his point, it is too early to have that discussion. So YES....do not offer any intellectual property yet. Simply make sure that the issue you will eventually be answering is on the table.
"Hey guys... Completely understand and support what you are saying here. Keep in mind that if you want to get an idea developed, there needs to be a category for it. We are establishing the overall problems....not the solutions...YET.
Those solutions / designs will be legally protected and there will be a stake in those solutions for the designer. At his point, it is too early to have that discussion. So YES....do not offer any intellectual property yet. Simply make sure that the issue you will eventually be answering is on the table."
It's when you start ghetto-modding non-tubeless rims/tyres with rim strips and sealant that you get into difficulty/annoyance.
In the last few months, I've come across a fair amount of Machinists on these comment boards, most of which have been involved in the trade for years, so this project is the perfect test of the creativity and skill of the Pinkbike community.
And it won't change the way we ride, But.
On a typical air shock the way the valve is made we need to thread in/out the pump, witch make for slow engagement of the opening/closure of the valve itself. So there is allways a leak of air depending on the way/speed you unthread the pump. Making the readed air pressure on the dial different than the actual air pressure left in the shock.
I think there might be a better way of connecting/disconnecting high pressure pumps to shocks.
actually the pressure shown on the gauge is the pressure that is left in the shock when you disconnect the pump, the air you hear escaping is the air in the line of the pump not any air from inside the shock or fork or tire for that matter.
ie. if you pump up to 150 psi and then hear a loss of air as you disconnect the pump, the pressure inside is still at 150psi. When you reconnect the pump the air pressure might read something like 130 psi, this is because that loss of 20 psi went into filling your line on the pump. A fraction might be lost to the atmosphere but if you do it fairly quick it will be very minimal.
-too much SRAM OE on bikes. I'm a Shimano person, and I'm sure there are people out there who think there is too much OE Shimano. just my opinion
-phantom upgrades: ie: putting a $$$ rear derailleur on a bike instead of a $$, where the price difference could be used to upgrade something that would make more difference to performance, ie cranks, brakes, wheels.
-OE wheels. Not only are they usually not built well, but they are built with cheap parts. The price difference between the best rims and the worst rims is not very much at all, (maybe $100/rim max, not including carbon), same thing with spokes (butted vs. straight gauge). Why do companies cheap out on OE wheels (saving $200 MAX of the SRP) when they could build up some awesome wheels that weigh a pound less and stay true longer? You can't upgrade rims and spokes the way you can with other components as there is so much labour required to do that. It's more economically viable to upgrade the entire wheel, but that involves buying new hubs.
Here's an idea though: Most low end suspension forks are terrible! They usually have no damping (compression or rebound) and maybe they sag through half their travel then become rock hard. Let's make a low end, cheap suspension fork that doesn't suck!
This is sort of a business issue again as well. The marketers want to spec a suspension fork because that is what the uneducated masses want. However, they are heavy and they don't work all that well, and I'm sure most people would be happy enough with a rigid fork (especially for a 29er).
by your logic, why do component manufacturers make gear at many pricepoints? Why does Shimano make SLX, when by your logic, they should just make XTR and people will be forced to buy it?
What do you think makes a good fork? Internally, there are premium oils/seals, and lots of CNC components. These components, especially the cost that goes into their manufacture and R&D are extremely expensive. So when you say, look at a Fox Float 36 160mm at the high end of the 160mm travel spectrum, you have special coatings, paint processes, multiple machining processes. This all costs a metric assload of money, hence their price. If you want a cheap but good fork, you're going to have to find a company who is able to produce good, strong parts, at an average weight, and be able to keep their pricepoint down while still staying competitive. There are definitely some good options coming out lately, look at the new X-Fusion forks, like the Vengeance HLR. Cnc'ed components, a good pricepoint, and internally adjustable height wise. They're there, just look for them.
My point is that in that price range, is the consumer really going to ride trails? Is the fork really going to smooth out the ride that much? Does the fork really work or is it just there for looks? The marketting people leave the suspension fork on the bike because it looks good, and the people who ride their mountain bikes on the street don't really care.
Why not save $100-$200 by having a rigid on there, especially with 29" wheels.
Okay, so the special manufacturing processes cost a lot of money. This is where this design thing comes in. Which of those processes could we eliminate, without significantly affecting the quality of the fork. Maybe we cast or forge some parts?
Or who cares? I will probably never buy a bike in that price range, and if I did, it would have a rigid fork. But wouldn't better quality at lower prices help grow the sport?
We have customer 1 come in, and want a ~$500 "mountain bike". No, it will not have hydraulic dics, or a truely adjustable fork, but I can get them onto a Specialized Hardrock comp, a sturdy frame with relatively good set of components. Decent tires, a drivetrain that works, mechanical discs. Now I have customer 2 come in and ask for the same thing around ~$500. They would rather take the Hardrock than a bike with slightly better components with a rigid fork. Its just how the (average) customer's mind works.
Now at your price range ~$800, you could easily find a Specialized Hardrock Pro, which would have hydraulic discs, and a RockShox Dart fork. That isn't honestly a bad fork, its light, and it works. Its a whole lot better than an elastomer fork!
Cycling is consumer driven - it just so happens that those consumers, are really, really cheap. That in turn makes parts and components on complete bikes, really cheap.