Trek recently released images of their 650B-wheeled Slash, a 160mm travel bike meant for some serious terrain, and the American company now offers a number of their bikes in both 650B and 29'' flavours. One of their major competitors, Specialized, has both 26'' and 29''-wheeled bikes in their lineup and has so far shunned any 650B platforms, saying that the advantages offered by the mid-sized wheel aren't worth the trouble.
Unnecessary Extinction At this point it is pretty obvious that the large majority of new mid-travel bikes, meaning many of the rigs that riders around the world spend their time on, will be sporting 650B wheels for 2014, with the figure only growing for 2015 and beyond. That means that if you plan on spending more than $2,000 or so on a proper mountain bike with between four and seven inches of travel, you'll likely be looking at 'tweener wheels whether you like it or not. That's bad news for diehard fans of the 26'' wheel who want to purchase a new bike, because although there will likely always be manufacturers using the proven, smaller diameter wheel, most companies will be focusing their resources on the 650B market - it won't be long until we see some forks, tires, and wheels being offered in only 650B sizes. If you doubt that will happen, you only have to look to the past for examples. While it can certainly be argued that is the price to pay for technology moving forwards (physics does prove that 650B wheels have a slight advantage in roll-over and attack angle compared to 26'' wheels), one could also claim that the slight advantage in performance isn't worth the wholesale change that it requires, which leads us to the reason those aforementioned tinfoil hat-wearing riders often cite for 650B wheels being around at all: new gear to sell to the buying public. | Natural Evolution Look back fifteen or more years ago and ask yourself which components and bikes sucked... the answer is that most of them weren't great, and we'll likely think the same fifteen years from now about the bikes and gear currently in our garage. We may reminisce fondly about the good times that were had, but no one wants to change their cantilever brake pads every other ride during the winter, pull the lowers off of their Quadra 21R fork to pour out a half cup of rust coloured water, or use tires with a rubber compound similar to what hockey pucks are made with. While there is still plenty of unfounded hate, especially from younger riders who somehow assume that larger diameter wheels don't have ''soul'', 29 inch wheels are here to stay and offer certain advantages in certain situations over 26'' wheels, as do 650B wheels. No, neither are better everywhere, but the very same can be said of 26'' hoops. The point is that there will always be detractors when it comes to anything new - those who were around when front and rear suspension began to appear can attest to that - but that the advantages presented could be worth the growing pains. |
Intense was an early adopter of 'tweener wheels, with their 650B 951 Evo shown here opposite the 26'' wheeled M9 - two of the world's more capable descenders. With equal riders aboard, the M9 would have a small fight on its hands to stay ahead of the Evo.
The cycling industry works years in advance, with designers and marketing teams talking about 2015 and 2016 while you sit waiting for that 2011-model year bike to finally go on sale at your local shop. That means that trends and technology that you won't see for two years is being decided upon behind closed doors right now. These people aren't evil, their goal isn't to dupe you out of your hard-earned pay check, and yes, the very large majority of them do ride. But they are determining how much travel your next bike has, what angles it will use, and everything else from its spec to its colour. We are far from being unusual, though, as that is how it works in pretty much every industry. Does that mean that, at least in a way, the industry itself is creating its own demand? If 70% of full-suspension trail bikes in 2015 will use 650B wheels (which is just a figure pulled out of thin air, not a fact), will consumers believe that 650B is better and seek them out? Does it matter what anyone thinks if there are next to no 26''-wheeled bikes to choose from? The heart of the matter is that 'new' sells and established technology is eventually viewed as boring and antiquated, and 650B is new and garnering plenty of headlines these days. | Bikes have gotten better year in and year out, and although there have been some bad eggs in that time, the performance curve is always on the rise. So why would it be any different over the coming years? Yes, marketing departments most definitely come into play as they think up catch-words, construct colourful pie charts, and release beautifully shot photos and videos of professional riders doing impossible things on their 650B-wheeled bikes, but the same could be said of any other bike or component that is on the market. The latest GT Fury downhill bike is one hell of a machine, but anyone thinking of purchasing one knows full well that they won't be racing to new heights because Gee and Rachel are laying waste to the field this season. Likewise, 650B bikes won't give you Absalon-like lungs and muscle power, or allow you to scale climbs like Danny MacAskill up the side of a building, but science proves that the larger diameter wheels DO roll over lumpy terrain better than 26'' wheels. That means that many of the advantages that 29ers offer are also present with 650B, albeit with performance that is much closer to 26'' wheels. The real trick with 650B bikes is that most of them handle very much like a 26''-wheeled bike, which certainly can't be said of 29ers. If a company can offer a machine with more performance but that handles exactly like a 26''-wheeled bike, what is the problem? Expect bikes to continue to perform better and better over the next few years, especially the ones with 650B wheels. |
This carbon fiber 650B prototype from Giant, a company that is traditionally slower than some to jump on the wagon, is a sign of changing times.
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Stolen bike has one main unique feature - you don't have to think what to upgrade first
Firts of all I borrowed 3 sizes to big HT 26" with RS Judy I, form my friend, just to save money. For next 6 months I was lurking for new a bit "bigger" fully for enduro, there was Tansition Covert 26" on the table in 2012, but when the time came and pockets were ready to sucked, Santa Cruz showed up their new baby, eye-burning yellow 650b, 150mm CTD Fox, at price of a good used car.
SC came with exact spec as i would build myself, so why to bother i just ordered, waited 6 weeks for shipping ( US > Po(or)land ) ,
The Owner of Polish official SC store, was a True Middle-aged Bike-Soul Rider. Offered me to come across entire country at the weekend to be sure that SAG is set properly for me, tyre pressure is set perfectly for local singletracks, he builded all of it for one man with single bike in his free time. He really loves Santa Cruz bikes. Meanwhile i could test some road bikes, DHs, HTs form SC lineup - and when, all was set ,and i could ride where i wanted, he took his Tallboy and offered to ride with him He showed me best enduro singletracs in area The Expirience was so amazing, the bike was like flying, rides effortlessly, climbs superbly , bombs downhill, for a bike i had for first time in my life on a track i havent seen before it inspired me to ride faster, Like you have been rejoined with a rig that was part of your body form birth.
I confess that i was sold to the new 650b religion, if i'm going for something new let try everything new they have.
Thats how i found out that 650b middle travel bike is perfect for me, and i love as much as i loved 26"
the rear profit made.. is all the new wannabe's who actually listen to these commercials. and buy these bikes...(completes)
(and after the hype..(face it.. mtb is a hype right now) they will all end up on ebay for scrap prices cause they found a new hype to follow)
now with 10-11 speed.. you can purchase the drive train.. chainring cass. and mech and shifter.. what will cost you some savings.. if you want to be hip.. let face it.. 9speed is good enough.. for most..
with the new wheel standards.. it is 2 rims a fork and a complete frame.. where all your gathered saved spares wont fit on.. i mean who doesnt have a spare rear wheel for his bike ? just in case of.. ...? or changes even complete sets for different rides ?
and the complete dissapearing of the discussion rotational weight on 27.5/29"still really baffles me..
you want to make a bigger wheel the same weight .. its going to be not as strong as a smaller one.. fact.. ! not even going in on the larger diameter..
i say they(the industry) did fine for XC riders.. give them the 10-11 speed gears and the 29"wheels..
and then i would like to see what the womens category XC will choose .. little girls on 29"bikes.. i dont think a lot will want to ride that.. unless your sponsor is breathing down your neck to do so.. .. oww thats right .. they are allready doing that
We already decided that 27.5 is a waste of time and better 29 if you really need to roll over things. Specialized did the same with their 29er Enduro.
Just another way to sell more bikes.
I don't want to be faster just because a bike does all the hard work for me. In fact I don´t need to be faster at all. I ride because I love mountain bike and it makes me happy. I just want to arrive at the end of the trail with a big smile and think it was so awesome.
Bigger wheels might make sense for pro racers to allow them to shave some seconds. But just like a dh bike with a custom geometry for some pro pilot there's no need to take it to the market.
We just want to have fun and the truth is that 26 inch bikes are way more fun and force us to have better technique and riding skills. On a 29er you just need to point it and wait for the "monster truck" to roll over everything.
I just hope 26 wheels are not dead.
I bought enduro, because i wanted it, despite of the hype that rised recently.
My friends says "omg, that hells expensive rig" and as amateurs they expect it rolling itself, thats ofcourse complete bullshit.
It still has two wheels ( yes a bit bigger ), tubeless , and some nice touches like 2x10 drivetrain etc, but according to that was already written above, nobody except me will notice the diference in small specified known by me only conditions.
Some rooted rocky uphills impossible to reach on muddy wet days, or extra dry slippery leafs, became true
Some of my fav uphill trails comes with a little less effort (more speed) ,additionaly i liked tubeless girp that has nothong to do with wheel diam.
I do compete in local xc races just for fun and great satisfaction if i overtake HTs on uphills, or can maintain speed for few km's after PROs Having fun has nothing to do with wheels, overall weight, and any other commercial-driven gadgets.
True is if you are lazy and think that bike will do anything for you,you are wrong. Fun on trails comes from effort ( for me ) ,and if bike helps abit with something, i can train it harder or think about other skills i need to learn. I recently jumped form 3x9 to 2x10 , differnece is so great that it took about one month to learn how to more or less effectively use it. There is so much to learn
The most skillfull riders i know about & have ridden with (bmx,moto) all aquired skills from smaller wheels. I think you rob people of that development in this case. it's like when you grow up with 20s your bike handling skills are set for life and you can adapt it to anything. All the reviews, reviewers, ads, vids of pro riders, who sing praises and are adopting the next thing are probably seriously accomplished riders in their own right with decades of riding the lowly 26 and probably equally long years on 20s. it reminds me of the "no kid left behind policy". not saying crap on 650b or 29 just let 26 live. just an opinion...
It's as Mike said in the article ""The heart of the matter is that 'new' sells and established technology is eventually viewed as boring and antiquated, and 650B is new and garnering plenty of headlines these days", the fact of the mater is that 26 wheel sales are depleting and the bike industry is trying to revive a category. The big companies can't invest in 2 wheel sizes that are so similar, so their going with the man of the hour, they don't really care about the performance, which make business sense.
I just want to shred jumps and corners, I don't care if I get to the top of the hill 30 sec faster. Trails are getting to smooth now-a-days as is, and awkward section albeit are slightly less awkward on 650b, they are still awkward. So in my personal situation, they are not an advantage. So if you're like me, don't knock 650b, just support 26, they're not die. The larger bike companies have no choice but to switch, but the small companies will stick with it if they are selling units!! So if you just want to shred and don't care about keeping the industry "fresh", buy 26 next bike and they'll be around forever.
650b ISN'T KILL 26, IT'S JUST MAKING IT COOL!!!
It's a fairly one sided article, how about mentioning that the wheels aren't as strong, and if they are, they will be heavier. Even if you have the same wheel weight, more of that weight is further form the center of ration so will be harder to accelerate. People often say bigger wheels take a little more effort to get moving, but once they are up to speed, they just keep going. The same argument is true for a heavy bike, yet thousands of dollars are spend in order to cut weight...
carbon fibre 29'er hardtail trail bike (Specialized Stumpjumper Expert)
carbon fibre 700c road racing bike (Specialized Tarmac)
loving riding both of these bikes !!
one on the dirt trail, the other on the roads...
no complaints here.
owned many different sizes over the years in BMX, ROAD and MTN: 20" / 24" / 26" / 700c
its all bikes
as long as I have bikes to ride, I could not care less what is happening with market trends
No matter how high tech bike frames have become, those bikes still look like wagons .
just watch every 29" edit, a lot of cutting to not let you see the bike rolling.
if the Amish still have wooden wheel on their tractors in 2013 , i can ride my 26" and be happy and content (although some would say IGNORANT, so ignorantly and happily ).
the poll is missing one option: "PinkBike stop trolling about wheel size".
As a side note, on the custom frame forum I frequent, there are a lot of roadies, and they are appalled at the idea of using disc brakes. They are concerned they will be stranded from bent rotors, overheated brakes, and the incompatibility with their old equipment. I am sure that does not make sense to anyone on this site. They say the rim brakes are good enough, and always have been. They say the difference isn't worth the cost of the upgrade. Sound familiar? I personally welcome road discs, and have actually already converted my road bike.
1: I personally prefer 26" should exist.
2: The industry main idea is to develop and experiment with new things (And earn money at the end of the day). They will not stop.
3: It is us who can decide what to buy and what not.
4: According to my observation overall and on this article - Majority of riders (Including me) want 26" | Dont want 26" to go away. It has become a part of our life.
5: So its YOUR response to the market. If the 650B or 29er sales, popularity and response are low compared to 26", they would automatically discontinue it or give it less attention in the future. You are not being forced to buy a 650B or a 29er. If any brand stops production of 26 frames...i bet some other brand will have it. And they will realize it. Simple!
And talking about technology and all... They made dropper post, adjustable travel fork.... I would bow down to a technology that can develop "AN ADJUSTABLE RIM + TIRE" Just hit the dial, it converts to a desired size, and can be installed on any existing frame.
PB has been sent here to conform you... And you will be conformed. First, eliminate the competition (26) so there will be no measuring stick. But, you will be told your beloved 26 still to here for years to come, in and attempt to sooth the savage heart, but all the short while begin to remove them from all their upcoming lines. Since the differences are suttle you will forget about your dear friend (26) in a few of years (out of sight, out of mind). The industry will reap the fortunes made from you and any other new consumer having no other choice but to buy a complete bike or new fork and wheelset at a price that they know the masses can no longer afford to spend for the asian production bikes in this horrible economy. These are the truths, you can recognize them or not. The fact is 26 sale and bike sales in general have slumped due to the inflated price and the bad economy of the last 6yrs (and still counting). This move is not for the better, it is to separate you from your dollar..or euro and all that other BS is just what it is BS. The median income model the bike industry has used to establish pricing for bikes, components, and gear does not work any longer, but they do not want to lowers their standard. So this is what you get...carefully crafted trickery.
The solution is simple...don't fight it, take what it gives you and that will be rock bottom prices for 26 bikes and parts. In a few years when there are plenty of take off parts on ebay, a solid used part market and then jump on board. Minimize their profits for treating us like the dumb sheep that they think we are. Make their 5yrs window of increased sales profit like drinking their own piss. Force these companies to evolve in this economy and become like YT Industries, Canyon, and the like.
@Zalevsky yes bigger wheels roll over better but there comes a point where the benefits of bigger wheels are outweighed by their cons (weight, flex, acceleration, agility). I have yet to try a 29in but I have tried 650b, 26 and 24 and have come to the following conclusions for DH/freeriding:
24in wheels with big tires (2.7-3.0) are great for off piste freeriding (especially as a rear wheel) aka shale/big rocks and for tight singletrack
26" wheels work well on rolling terrain and accelerate slower than 24" (even a 24"x3.0 compared to a 26x2.5) I think they are great all rounders
650b wheels handle slower than 26" but roll over stuff even better than 26" I think they work great for faster speeds and/or rough terrain eg big rocks, roots
I would rather take the five grand to Vegas as the ride would be a lot more exciting and it would certainly last more than 5 seconds!
How come press fit bb"s fit the new iscg nicely.. ? A drunk thought yesterday...
They are one step ahead of us !
They tell you.. you have freedom.. and power... Here you have the power to choose between 2 choices..... Given by us .
Totally.
But I'm still going to take it easy!
Even people like me will stop buying. In my garage right now I have 4 MTBs worth around £5000 collectively. All 26 inchers. I sometimes snap a fork or a frame, bust a wheel and so on. if I break my DH frame then I only* need to spend maybe £1200 to get a new one because all the existing components will fit, but if I cant find a frame that suits my needs will I spend £2500 on a new bike? No, I wont.
So wise up bike builders. if you force this change on us then we will resist it and we will do so with our money. talk all the guff you like about riding being a spiritual thing, you want our dollar, and if you f*ck us about youre not getting it.
*only being a relative term. £1200 is a lot of money.
the manufacturers have an advantage in that we have to buy what they make, but if they stop making 26" tyres that can compete with new technologies in 650b and 29", what option do we have but to either quit racing or buy a new bike? will Maxxis, for example, spend as much on R+D in the 26" market if the pressure is to start on 650b? No, they wont, so we get left behind. our only ammunition in this arguement will be our spending power. remove that and we swing the balance back in our favour.
couldn't agree more. I work at a bright orange bike chain in the UK and we stock spares that would fit bikes over 30 years old. people think that the bike industry is covered by bike radar and pinkbike, when in fact there are millions of riders that have never heard of them.
While marketing like us to think that technology and innovation move very fast in the bike industry, that's false. bikes have changed very little in even 3 decades. sure, they have got lighter and a little more refined but a derailleur is still a derailleur, a chaining is still a chaining, and a top spec rotor oval chainset for 600 pounds plus is still the same technology as some old shimano biospace rings.
new wheel will come and go but the industry has more than a century of infastructure built around 26" wheels and I strongly believe this will all blow over and manufacturers will start making new models in 26".
Do you know what a straw man is? Please explain what you mean by "quite a few".
By the way, they have been adopted, just not to the degree that this sensationalist article makes it seem.
Absolutely, there will never be an issue with spares as you say. My beef is not with Shimano, Race Face, Maxxis or any spares maker. i sit here disappointed by the frame makers. while many people approach the issue from the point of finding components to hang off their frame, there are a significant number of my personal friends who approach it from the opposite direction: what frames can i find for which i have the components. This is how the bike industry gets not insignificant amounts of money from around where I live. By doing this, changes in geometry and frame building technology bring us a new riding experience, a new bike, without the need to buy a new bike. I know of many established riders here who have a plethora of 26 inch rims, forks, wheelsets, tyres and so on who are feeling disappointed with the quite obvious demise of the 26 inch trail bike. If by any chance frame makers who read PB see this, do your future frame sales a favor: please consider making frames with the ability to run both, there are a lot of people with a lot of 26 inch specific stuff who would keep spending their money on 26 inch frames but not 650B complete bikes around here.
Choice is excellent, but when an article is titled "The Demise of 26" Wheels..." it can't help but make the new riders out there feel like they have been screwed.
As already said, you dont have to buy the new bike with bigger wheels
As said by flowraw, why cant we just ride bikes ?
if you look up selling trends on models i reckon that this time next year 26ers will be selling a lot less, some manufacturers are already selling less 26 inch wheel in comparison to their taller siblings, not because they are proven better or worse but because people out there want the new thing (myself not included yet but i am not saying never)
I'm still with my Knolly from 2010 crossmax SX 2010, reverb 2011 X9 rear der 2010 9speed, BOS suspension from 2010 and i really think this the best bike for my level, don't need carbon, 650b, 10-11 speed.
it's not carbon, its 26 inch wheel, it's heavy, it has outdated geo, YET IT STILL works and does not hold me back - in fact i will blast most i come across on trails regardless of their bike or wheel, and i can run DH on it no problem..
the products you buy were of personal value when you bought them, you believed they were worth the money when you bought them (shame on you for believing kashima hype) so what is your problem? nobody is making you do anything. how do you think those that bought the new fox a day or 2 before the shiny kashima coated came out felt?
EXACTLY - progression demands forward movement, get on board or don't.
Well actually it is, I just wouldn't put it that way; the goal is to make the biggest revenue as possible. How can you argue against that, that's actually the primary goal of a company, to make the highest possible revenue, that's basic knowledge (well for 99.99% of western companies it is). They certainly aren't doing this for the sake of "good times", although the PR guys will likely tell you so..
I know PB will go where the money is, but Levy's "polls" are blatant pieces of marketing disguised as open-to-user-opinions articles.
I still remember an interview Solo Bici Magazine pulled on Mariano Gon from Santa Cruz Bikes, and how he stated "the 26" bikes don't want us no more, the transition will be dirty, but unavoidable". Now I'd like to know how could a bike hate on you... Pure marketing BS, and again a market segmentation forced by the bike industry. And again, they want us to think it's all fow our own good...
I'll happily go on the record saying that while I have ridden some great 650B bikes, it most certainly wasn't down to their wheel size but rather just a great overall design that works well. Norco's Range is a great example. On the other hand, I've spent time on 650B bikes that didn't do anything for me... again, nothing to do with the wheels. The point is that I am indifferent to wheel size so long as the damn bike works well.
As for the gearbox poll: derailleurs are king haha =)
And I stand by my words, this isn't a poll, it's more like an infomercial.
Come to think about it...If the 26ers are far and few between that'll mean the inners and tyres (Along with other things etc) will become more expensive to buy as they'll not be in such demand anymore..
we have more power than most of us think we do.. we can overthrow governments, start revolutions and close banks by taking all our money out of them..
we can certainly kill 650B .. if you really think we dont have any power.. you are a f*cking waste of space !!
and evolution has left you behind..
Yes, we certainly are more powerful then we think, but I don't think we'd want to over through the bike companies... Revolution against governments etc is fine, but we can't touch the bike guys... Its against all our morals
its kinda weird to see sooo much attention/advertising on these wheel stuff.. i find it strange..
there are numero things that are new.. gearbox perhaps.. ! but noooo. new frame.. bla bla bla. i have seen all the NO comments regarding new frames..
BUTT were are taking this shit fairly easy up the ass.. not just the new frame now.. but wheels too
it amuses me how simple people really are sometimes..
In all of it, at least for now, it is the US that stands safest with it's unmatched military power to force anything upon anyone in case of emergency.
And WTF is your problem mate, did I write anything against you? You can't stand not being the smartest arse in certain thread or what? Please mark your territory next time
and
maybe cyberhawk means reducing the power of the banks does not necessarily lead to anarchy, there are a lot of things going on in the world to change the status quo, transparency, whistle blowing etc. so i hope chnage will happen without rifles involved
Any economical studies will learn you this, and common sense should advice you whats the reality.
Lets say someone accidentaly made you bancrupt with simple press of "delete" on your account, and officials in bank says everything is fine What would You do ? sue bank ? Does your lawyer work for poor citizens, that has no money ?
I see how ppl form Poorland swarms EU, and makes me sad that such problems appears here. We Biking community, as i assume, each of us have at last one bike and lets discuss about it, without political/religion/ethnical/wealth concerns.
"I dont like Germans but Span is fine " you cant say that; you never met everyone, especially me personally.
However i do realize , that every swarmed country would feel your way.
Yeah, and I was also one of those guys riding it. But sooner or later I gave it up.
Nowadays a great (still) 26" bike with a normal midrised handlebar is the way to go.
I think 29" is used with good cause on XC bikes. We know the advantages and disadvantages.
But the differences from 26" to 650B (and from 650B to 29") are too small. So one must 'die' --> 650B.
20" BMX, 26" MTB gravity-orientated riding, 29" MTB distance-orientated riding.
Just my 50 cents ...
The vast majority of the MTB world are on 26". In the real world outside of forums and websites like this, people are on 26" and don't care or even know about 650b.
There are hardly any 650b bikes out there. In say, 4-5 years time the demand for 26" tyres/rims will still be massive because there will still be more people on 26" than 650.
Imagine how much tyre manufactures would lose if they if they didn't offer 26" tyres!?
Regardless of what the industry says, people are not going to ditch their 26" wheeled bikes overnight.
so while i agree with you its hard to ignore how fast the AM and Trail and XC bike market is changing - its almost wildfire like and if shops keep doing what they are doing then buyers wont even be offered 26ers from the off, oh they will still exist for sure, but not in high street shops where the main money for new bikes is
If I had to make the decision to continue mtb'ing and spending money on parts that constantly break, require stupid amounts of maintenance, and become obsolete the same year I buy them, I'd probably consider taking the money and running. Well, maybe not trailrunning, but maybe dirtbiking, I hear it's cheaper and more fun anyways.
in diameter than a 26" wheel. If you look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tyre_and_Rim_Technical_data_02-en.png you can see the diameter of a standard 26 inch wheel is 559mm and a 650b is 584mm. This equates to a 3.8% increase in diameter. Not a big change, and it does beg the question is it enough to make all your 26" kit redundant. If we were starting with a clean slate, that is, none of us owned 26" frames, wheel, forks, tyres, ..., then it might make perfect sense, but to make the financial jump to a new standard for such a seemingly small difference....
Oh and 29ers, have a diameter of 622mm, so actually only 2.5" bigger than a 26 wheel
Anyone here who owns a surly instigator or 1x1 for example with the stock rigid forks they came with, can convert to 650B just with wheel/tire swap. No need to go buy a whole new bike.
I'm worried about all these high dollar 650B offerings, targeting a market (long travel trail/AM) not really known for shelling out $$$ for the lightest and most technologically advanced. Isn't the XC/trail market where the revenue and high dollar sales are mostly coming from? If they are trying to forecast trends, based on wheel size sales, and are applying the new wheel size to the most logical kind of bike...
I have to say the wheel size has merit. The only thing keeping it from taking off is consumer acceptance, and the manufacturers need help from the media to make that happen, such as 650b bikes getting awarded bike of the year from multiple reputable media outlets. I personally don't want to see this fail, for the sake of the industry's health and potential growth and all the innovation that comes along with it.
From what I've seen around my parts, people seem to have 26" bikes with way more travel than you imagine they'd actually need, while people with bigger wheels actually are riding challenging terrain better than you'd expect. I think 650B might cut down on some of that silliness regarding the extra long travel 26" bikes on not-so-rough trails. For example, if a rider is contemplating between a new Trance X 26" and Reign, I actually think a Trance 650B would be a welcome option over the Reign, if he/she were leaning towards the more capable bike.
The cynic in me is saying this is the corporations' doing. They are forcing on us the idea that 650b is the way to go if you're into such and such. I'm not against 650b, though. I'm just worried for the 650b buyers who bought into the hype, only to find out that this is not what they're looking in a bike.
Really annoyed with how the corporations are telling us what is good. Let us choose for ourselves!
Nico vouilloz thinks 27.5 inch wheels are worth a second on a 3 minute track. If the worlds greatest Downhiller is only getting a minute advantage, I can't see this translating into much for the average rider or racer.
The conclusion? 650 doesn't mean shit and is being pushed by the industry as a way to sell more bikes.
Have a wicked-awesome fork for AM that will only fit a 26" wheel? You're going to bleed money if you hold on to it too long.
Just bought a new bike: made sure it was 26" frame. Most of the 26" frames are 650B compatible. All you have to do is look at 650B Palace to see how many conversions there are out there.
The "engineering" involved in reinventing the wheel is minimal for the 26", which is why all the manufacturers jumped on it. The little guys like Intense, Turner, and Ventana had nothing to lose by this, and it looks like their gamble paid off. This is just a quick way for the industry to make a buck with very little invested in new design. The biggest impact was on the forks, because the tires had to clear that last bit of travel without hitting the crown.
As long as my Mojo HD will last me, I'll keep riding it. My DJ is no way going to sport the 650B. Useless wheel size for DJ.
As far as parts, Fox still makes the 36 only in 26", XFusion sells their stuff for both 26" and 650", and I'm sure a lot of the stronger wheel manufacturers are going to keep making rims, and same with tires. Kinda dumb for those to cut out their main market.
If 650b wheels are the way of the future for TrailAM (XC is already 29"), I'll learn to ride my DJ on the trails first, and get a DH bikes for the parks.
I might love 650b,I might hate it, but it doesn't matter because my next bike will probably have to be 650b (or heaven forbid a 29er) whether I want it or not, and it won't be too many years after that until you might struggle to by good tyres, wheels, forks or whatever to keep your 'old' 26er going.
I hope it turns out to be the 1.5" steerer fork of the day, comes along, makes a big fuss, leaves.
We throw away our €xpensive bikes and get new ones!! :-)
I am going to clue you in to how riders are starting to see you:
Go watch the movie "Wall Street", now fast forward to to scene where Gorden Gecko explains how greed is good.
That's how you are being viewed: profit above all else. You used to make a quality product that would last many years, could be upgraded AND would offer evolution/ new technology.
You're still doing the last part, what happened to the first two?
With the cost of bikes that now exceed the cost of new motorcycle or a good used car, is someone really going to be spending 5-7K on a bike that the manufacture is telling you it will not be supported by next year. I'm not a fanboy of anything I don't care what so and so pro is using. My wallet decides what I can afford and use. I work and paybills and get through my daily life and with what little I have left I find a way to spend $ on my hobby. Not really caring what is the latest and greatest as I'm on 6 yr old DH as it is now. Oh well maybe by 2018 I'll look back at the 650b craze.
By the way: When it's so important to be about 1 second faster with bigger wheels, than some enthuisiastic bikers will have to change their hobby.
I'm really excited what brands like Specialized are going to do? Will they keep the 26" for the upcoming season? I'd be disappointed if the stumpjumper 26" will be gone in a few years..
i suppose it makes sense for production, one less production line to make 26 rims and spokes? the real advantage is to push sales of bikes and parts no? now everyone needs new frames, forks and wheels at least.
BUT in downhill racing - like in BMX racing - I believe the size should be standardized. 26 for downhill please.
Has this been proven or tested? Have you or anyone else taken a real top level DH rider that doesn't ride or work for Intense (and therefore has no stake in the outcome) and timed him/her on both bikes in some sort of scientific way?
That said, has a 650b bike won a World Cup DH race this year?
In all seriousness, I have only ridden 24 and 26" and tbh I can hardly tell the difference there and that is supposed to be a larger difference than 26->27.5". I honestly don't give a flying crap about these new wheel sized. The other thing that no one seems to mention is that these big wheels look daft, or at least they do imo.
I think 27" will be great for my next AM bike, and I'm interested in it for DH. I wonder what effect it'll have on slide and traction feel though, and chuckability. Will tracks just evolve to be faster, wider more open? I hope not, as it'll mean your down the hill quicker, and the hills not used to it's full potential.
But this is only words. We can claim exactly the same - that 26" is best compromise between 24" and 29".
Also, 27.5 has benefits AND DRAWBACKS comparing to 26". So how can it be called 'evolution'?? It's just a bit different, not 'better'! Just a bit other riding experience. It's like comparing oranges and apples.
And lets not forget that the real difference between 26" and 27.5" is only 25mm (1 inch), so the 650b benefits that are claimed are so small that are almost impossible to measure.
That said, it's a real pity that pinkbike persist in posting sensationalist articles such as this one, and this isn't limited just to the wheel size debate. What would be nice is if they could keep the entertaining and interesting stuff, where people are left to make their own mind up based on some good information, rather than articles making massive generalising statements, sniff just a little of marketing and judging by the comments on this one, generally irritate a large number of readers. Leave the stories shoving products you don't need down your throat to MBUK and the sensational stories to the tabloids.
Pinkbike, I'm disappointed. You guys are worse than Facebook.
I agree with whoever said Trek just paid PB for another advert. This debate is stupid. Nothing is dying. Different bikes for different rides. Different bikes for different trails.
All you gripers should just resort back to tube TV's, a-tracks, and vhs. Technology advances, the industry changes, and you adapt. The world spins.....life goes on. Things do get obsolete....just the way it goes.
If the 26" wheel is forever replaced by a 27.5" wheel which is 3% different in size...then who cares? Do you really expect to only buy 1 bike for your entire lifetime b/c you invested your hard earned $$ in it? No....so when you feel like buying a new bike in the future, you'll probably will be buying a 27.5" bike...never look back and have a great time like you've been having on your 26" wheel, but now on a wheel 3% bigger (as someone stated earlier).
No one is forcing you to buy anything. Every year car companies release new cars and the new model comes with bigger wheels and weighs less!...DO YOU HAVE TO BUY THEM? No of course not. The industry is changing....go forward and talk about the good ol days of riding a pimp 26"....just as you will a 27.5".
I suppose I can see the appeal of being easier... but if that's the case why not ride on the road. Mountain biking is about pushing your limits and abilities.. at least it used to be. In recent years it seems to be more about the equipment and less about the rider much like F1 has become about the car and technology and not about the driver. Is this really where we want the sport to go? Progress is good sure.. but I still feel it is the rider that should progress not the bike giving a false sense of progression.
Guys, the only reason PB posts commentary like this is to troll for responses. They don't give a sh*t about wheel size in any way (although Mike Levy appears to have heard of of the old 26"/24" pairing for DH. How cute, someone has access to Wikipedia)
They in turn can show their advertisers PowerPoint presentations with large charts that display what an active and passionate audience they'll have if choose to spend their ad dollars here.
Nothing to see here, carry on.
As the saying goes, don't feed the trolls, and Mike Levy is the biggest one of all. Always starting fights and then standing back to watch the fallout.
Unfortunately, the industry has a slick, remarkable and mysterious power to convince people that something is better than another thing, that you will be at a disadvantage by not using a newer technology. More unfortunate is that people fall for these lies. The truth is for every potential advantage that one wheel size offers, it will invariably have a corollary disadvantage. Do you ever see the industry advertise the disadvantages of 29" wheels?
Personally, I will ride 26" wheels for as long as I can. It will be a sad day when I cannot purchase 26" rims, tubes, spokes, tires.
"These people aren't evil, their goal isn't to dupe you out of your hard-earned pay check". OK so then WTF did you go on to say: "The heart of the matter is that 'new' sells and established technology is eventually viewed as boring and antiquated, and 650B is new and garnering plenty of headlines these days." for? We all know that these bullshit wheel sizes are just for the sake of selling. Evil or not, greedy or not, that is the only reason they exist. "Scientifically proven" to roll over bumps better? A properly functioning brain could deduce that without a science experiment. That advantage, is the only one those stupid money maker wheel sizes offer. They lose in every single other category, not just the one where riders have to buy a new everything just to replace a wheel. This stupid f*cking industry makes me want to get a BMX, or a skate.
I now expect the armchair engineers to come out of the woodwork, and lay bogus arguments to support their support of 27.
It sounds like people who bitch about the state of politics, but don't go out and vote!
Why let somebody else decide for you? Use your brain and more importantly your wallet!
I'm riding a 24inch Bmx cruiser for a year now, hardly any mtb for me. Means I've developed some real pinpoint accuracy and flow. Also helped me turn up at the 4x Nat Champs ( hadn't ridden my 4x bike for over 15 months) yet won every Moto and the final. As Public Enemy say'Dont believe the hype' all you slow coaches out there..
650b may not suit everyone, but the Pink Bike's Stadler & Waldorf contingent will continue to hate all that is new, but i'd say if you get the chance try it and then come back and share and informed opinion
There were three 650 sizes under the french system, A, B and C, and the letter referred to the width (A Narrowest and C widest) of the tire. So a 650A was the same diameter as a 650B or 650C but the tire and rim specifications were all different to achieve that same nominal diameter comparison. Same goes for 700A, 700B, 700C and 700D.
Now though the industry just refers to the old french specifications for rim/tire bead seat diameters when it says 650B or 700C for example, not the original diameters or tire widths. Those things have become blurred due to marketing numbers. Road bikes and 29er mountain bikes share the same 700C bead seat standard, but the tires are obviously very different and so then are their inflated diameters.
If I get rich and need a new bike, that's one thing, but everything is 26" specific, and I don't make boukous of cash. So 26 I stay to keep my wallet happy and pedals under me
I think its about a couple of things. Design, rider proportions, and rider intent.
At 6'4", my Tallboy LTc rides fantastic as a trailbike. So much so, i use it for everything on the shore except for the steeper, more freeride stuff.
To me, this is natural evolution. Ride what fits you and what feels good. And stop bitching, because this is where evolution comes from, practice and experimentation.
BOTH tire sizes will be 26". BTW, I do own a 29er Carve Pro. Yeah, it's different
and fun, but I spent over 20 years mashing a 26er. It's in my blood I suppose.
size like I see new developments in frame geo, or tweaks to the travel ratio etc. every company brings out new bikes every year, it hasn't ever forced everyone to buy new bikes. That said, I didn't know if R&D will be spent on making 26" bikes any better. Makes me a little tiny bit sad that the 26" will probably go away(10-15 yrs)
I absolutely agree there is not going to be any hi end components left for 26" in 3-4 years. So buy yours now if you love it.
No one makes anyone buy a 650B when there are lots of bikes to choose from. As for parts, I'm not worried that they'll ever stop making 26" rims and tires, and the 26"/650B tubes are interchangeable.
26 & 29 is all thats needed , anything else is just a gimmick and waste of money .
But now i think otherwise..
Imagine all carbon, aluminum, steel, brake fluid, suspension fluid in a wasteland because of this decision. Many years from now our grandchild maybe gonna ask "What did you do in your young era gramps?" Can we all said "Debating about wheelsize because of the industry force us to do so and pile hazardous leftovers in the wasteland".
Have you ever heard any manufacturer that accept their old frame/fork/tire or any other old parts being recycled?
For enviromental sake please be wise with your customers and materials my dear bike industries..
i demoed the slash and i loved the bike i mean loved the bike. i didnt like the specialized enduro the evo either. i hated the trance sx.
i hate hate hate the wheel sized thing its silly. i love my 26 bikes. i would never have looked for a new bike but my old bike got ran over when i got hit by a damn driver this got me on a few new bikes all i can say is demoing the slash was amazing had me rail and smiling every pedal stroke i took. i actually hate hate hate that the wheel size thing came about but now i am in search of a small slash 650b i am going to have to put 26 stickers on the wheels so my every day hard core 26 inch riding buddys dont give me shit, but 650b here i come
i am like the rest hate the wheel size game. my mavic deetraks were amazing wheels that were like 8 years old lasted 4 bikes and only killed by a dam truck running almost me over and killing my bike and my wheels. i was sold to never buy a wheel set again till needed especially bigger wheels. i road the 650 bike now i am on board. have an open mind ride many many bikes and then decide
"Oh my 3x7 works great"
"My rigid post has never let me down"
"The wheelsize I have right now is the perfect one"
"All these new standards are rediculous, my 9mm QR and square taper cranks were great"
Guess what? You can enjoy your old technology, but I'm tired of your whiny bullshit about new features of bikes. You can't argue that 650b doesn't have benefits. Bikes have evolved at a rapid pace in the last 5 years and it's an exciting time to be in the cycling industry. Having different wheel sizes for different jobs is simply logical. So stop talking about how gay 29ers are, how 650b is just a fad, and how you can shred so much harder on a 26er.
27.5 = All mountain/ Enduro
29= XC
But give people a slightly larger wheel size and the whining about the evil industry won't stop.
slightly bigger wheels involve massive costs to convert and render existing frames, forks, wheels etc useless, it's win win for the industry it kills the used market and brainwashes lots of people into buying the same bike as they already have only with less mud clearance.
friend of mine fr example is talking about selling a 7 month old commencal meta for the 2014 650 version without ever riding one. advertising is a powerful force.
- Bruce Lee
Good write up anyways! Everyone has his own version of reality called opinion or point of view, I enjoyed reading your one.
Biggest problem I have found is that frame designs are not compatible with different wheel sizes
Dont BMX guys think 26 is retarded? Horses for courses.
1 any rim bigger then 24" only lasts me a week
2 I have small legs and can only just touch the floor on a 650b never mind a 29er
A bike rep told me that Fox is dropping a wheel size in 2015. Hint its not one of the new ones. The consumers are the ones pushing for this with their wallets. So don't complain its being forced onto anyone. I chose to switch and many people are as well.
There was no marketing, no hype. Just a worthwhile upgarde for anyone who valued better rollover and traction, while still handling like a 26" wheeled bike. The advantage is more noticeable if you ride a lot of rocks and roots...on a groomed jump line, it ain't going to make a bit of difference.
Still trying to understand all the venom over a wheel size.
And please, someone, help cyberhawk get laid!
The future of biking is always going to change but i think that 29 has a good foothold in the market and is only going to grow with the influx of new tyres, suspension, geometry, etc. and therefore we shouldn't shun it but instead demo a 29er where you would normally ride a 26 and just feel the difference and then pass judgement as the biggest problem is trying to describe the benefits without actually having the customer try it first hand.
Just a few thoughts from me anyway!
I know the difficulty here is that the majority of us here ride mainly trail or "all mountain" and this is where the changes are taking place. All I have to say is, take care of that 26" frame for as long as you can if your so dead set on 26ers. There will be plenty of wheel sets to go around for quite some time.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY
www.vitalmtb.com/product/feature/First-Look-KHS-Goes-650b-for-Downhiil-Introducing-the-SixFifty-656DH,124
3peakslite.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5
And based on what I've seen that's been pushed out there, there is no domination. 26" stuff is still winning more enduro's and DH races and I suspect will be for some time.
War and racing have one thing in common: they test design! So let's let 650b and Gay9'ers continue to be tested. Until then, just sit down and think of something else to write about.
Well actually i think Gay9'ers have more reason to be than 476Bs as at least they might be the weapon of choice of fireroad dads who like a leisurely spin, i'd compare them to cyclocrossers - which exist, so why the Gay9'ers?
Who cares let them exist but don't break something that plain works, namely 26ers.
It is funny that when ever new products and updates come out, the companies seem to talk about problems and comments listed on Pinkbike/mtbr/etc...
The fox 34 CTD comes to mind
As does Scot Nichol talking about 650B beig rammed down people's throats.
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
Joseph Goebbels, Nazi propaganda minister.
^^^ that's how advertising and marketing works, unfortunately it seems to work very very well in the USA and Canada, Europeans are a little harder to convince.
That's basically the same thing going on here by you tinfoil lot who think 26" wheels are being taken away for any reason other than what the sales figures already have been telling manufacturers. You know what 650B has really done? Its stopped a lot of models being turned into 29ers because that's what the majority of the actual BUYING market was clammoring for. Yes instead they're turning into 650B bikes, but they're also changing the direction the 29er world was going. Some bikes that were 29er offerings are now NOT offered in 29er anymore.
Also there's a rule on the internet that the first person to invoke nazis or hitler to defend their point of view in an argument, automatically loses. Congrats on losing this argument.
Easy difficulty mode is using a 29er as it is a lot easier and just rolls over everything
Medium difficulty mode is using a 650B as it is in between
Hard difficulty mode is using a 26er, as you still have to exert some control over your bike, more than on 29ers
So in a way, 26ers are simply an easy way, or for beginners. If you are a serious mtber and believe you have skill, then if you're not on a 26er then you can't be that good.
Hahaha wheel wars once again...