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The cycling world needs people who are more concerned with doing things differently than just doing things the same way as everyone else. I'm talking about minds that look at something and don't just go, ''
I can do that,'' but think "
That's cool and all, but what if I did it this way?'' That sort of logic is why iPhones are so intuitive and easy to use; it's why air bags save so many lives each year; it's why donuts with bacon on top taste so damn good. There are, of course, thousands and thousands of other examples, many of which have had much more of an important impact on people's lives than things like cable operated derailleurs and the pneumatic tire ever will, but they all have one thing in common: someone, at some point, decided that they could do it better by doing it differently.
But why are we so hard on people who think like that? When you consider that most of us are happy to get through life by doing whatever it is that we do, pay our bills on time and squeeze in a bit of fun while being somewhat responsible, it makes the real bicycle thinkers, tinkerers and inventors out there, such as Graeme Obree and Robert Reisinger, look pretty f*cking awesome. Yet many of us are quick to shit on anything that looks different than what we're used to seeing, especially if we don't understand the whys and hows. Now, that's obviously not a trait that's exclusive to our group, but we do seem awfully quick to ridicule any out of the box thinking, a fact that can be confirmed by scrolling through the comment sections of many articles here on Pinkbike and elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for calling a spade a spade, especially because that's part of my job description, but there's a line where it goes from genuine criticism to just being closed minded. Perhaps it is because it's a lot easier to type out a poorly worded insult than it is to use Google to do some quick homework, or maybe it's down to jealousy. Either way, it's a good thing there were no online forum haters to discourage Franklin and Tesla when they were tinkering about with lightbulbs and electrocuting themselves.
Cannondale's Jekyll is different... and it works. It might not be the bike for you, but it's a good example of out of the box thinking.
It's true that the cycling world isn't exactly rife with fresh ideas lately, but I believe that's because we've already been through the growing pains of the last three decades. And maybe that's a good thing - do we really need another round of suspension stems or bikes with two shocks? Of course not, but now, when there is a fresh concept, or one that's at least new to mountain biking, it's so often the case that we end up turning into one big, negative hivemind that tries to shoot it out of the sky like it's a lame duck. We like to revert to tired arguments about the so-called evil cycling industry just trying to line their pockets when something new or different gets shown, or we'll exclaim about how we don't need this or that to enjoy the sport. Fair enough, but more often than not the person saying that is riding a bike that's less than a few years old, which means it has things like disc brakes, really good suspension, and maybe even a dropper post or tubeless wheels and tires. Hypocrites, all of us.
Then again, all of the acronyms, trademarks and so-called innovations that are so often pitched as being '
the next big thing' are surely just making the average rider roll his eyes dismissively. I don't know anything about marketing, but it's just insane to me how some of these new products and ideas are presented to the buying public, and I can't blame anyone for being more than just a bit skeptical after reading about some of them.
The truth is that your bike, even if you parked it right now and kept it in pristine condition for the next decade, is going to be a relative heap compared to what we'll be able to get our hands on ten years from now. We need to realize that there's nothing wrong with that, and that things move forward not because someone in a suit wants to buy a new beach house and needs your money to do it, but because bikes are getting better due to people wanting to make better products.
I'm a diehard fan of auto racing, and while it's obviously still as marketing driven as any other sport, it's also far more about winning than anything else. Winning is, after all, one of the better ways to market a product. If you want to see some proper out of the box thinking, take a look at what Ben Bowlby is doing with
his Nissan GT-R LM Nismo that is hoping to challenge the Audi and Porsche cars in the World Endurance Championship - this thing is a perfect example of what happens when you
have to think differently. Audi dominates most of the WEC, and Bowlby accurately stated that he'd have very little chance of beating them if he designed a race car to the same basic, albeit very proven, principles given that his competitors have spent many years perfecting what he'd only now putting into practice. No, he had to take the drastically different and risky route of penning a radically different machine that, hopefully, will go faster than his competitors. The un-constraining WEC rulebook allowed him to build a 1,250 HP, front-wheel drive car that exploits aerodynamics in a different way than the proven four-wheel drive cars it's going up against, and while the jury is still out as to how it will fare, one has to admire Bowlby's rationale: you probably can't beat 'em by doing the same thing that they're doing.
And while my mind always seems to focus in on new bikes and gear, Bowlby's point could also be applied to everything in the cycling world, from media to training to trail building, albeit with a less competitive edge as required.
Mountain biking and auto racing have about as much in common as an LED television and a potato, but it is an inspiring place to look to when talking about doing things differently. Our little off-road bicycle world has much less money running through its veins, but we also don't have a rulebook that keeps progression from getting out of hand. There's nothing to keep a bright mind from coming up with something revolutionary, however, there are plenty of not so bright minds that seemingly don't want that to happen. I'm not clever enough to come up with any ideas worth pursuing, but I'd like to think that I am smart enough to be in a third group of people: those who welcome new ideas with an open mind and a willingness to see if they make sense. Which group do you fit into?
Instead of selling an idea such as 27+, which the majority of people don't seem really interested in but are going to get anyway, how about designing a fork crown that doesn't creak after 6 months of riding? Or designing a relatively light weight hub that runs on something a bit burlier than a tiny ass 6802 bearing for the masses (everyone can't afford King)? These are common problems that people have that it seems like no company has been able to resolve.
These are common problems that people have that it seems like no company _want_ to resolve
For me mountain biking is very well developed and I don't think that we'll see a real game changer soon. I still use my 26" and won't change until I really have to because I'm very happy with old school wheels.
The same thing with suspension: it's all been done by motocross years ago, all the bladders etc. Now it's time to fine tune shim stacks etc.
Mike is there someway we can know how much has the sport grown since the introduction of 29ers and hydroformed frames? in my opinion those are milestones in the mtb industry.
My only complaint about all this envelope pushing technology we are getting shoved down our throats is proven products that work are becoming harder to find. I should be able to order Minion DHF's in any size and compound I want at anytime. Now that we have 7 different size mountain bike tires this will be an issue.There is only so much capacity in these factories.
SCCA racing would have more in common with MTBing and alot of the engineering goal would be reliability over the long haul.
Reliability is key when there is so little time to get out and ride let alone repair. So when your shit breaks partially or entirely because it has more moving parts than functionally necessary or is just too dainty for the task, then that is just a big ole bummer for the consumer.
That is why I will never own 4-piston brake calipers. Two pistons have enough power and heat dissipation for even the most badass mortal. So why bother having twice the moving parts and seals with twice the possibility of failure?
The guys that were out messing with Plus-sized tires (no matter the diameter) are the bike nerds that enjoy tinkering with those things to see what they end up with. Most likely with a heavy dose of self-induced placebo-effect going on. I remember such threads at MTBR years ago and being very intrigued as I have always migrated toward larger volume tires myself for various reasons. Those were some of the innovators at ground zero and nobody was throwing stones.
Everyone in this sport is for positive change. Of which we are getting a minuscule trickle out of the industry at the extremely high cost of lost compatibility and diminishing supply of replacement and/or upgrade parts for bikes that will still be holding down KOMs for a long time. The only expiration will be the point at which we have no choice but to buy these new gimmicks. What we are getting is the reality of a much more expensive and exclusive future.
Ask any mechanic what he thinks of press-fit BBs....
The issue here mimics what happens in industry all the time. The engineers sitting at AutoCAD dream up something that seems great and toss it along, marketing is happy about the new stuff yadda yadda. They rarely consult the techs that assemble and service these creations that can handily point out the flaws that are usually the result of over-engineering. Following the realization of the flaws as they manifest on the real world, the engineers over-engineer once again around the original starting point of proven technology for either ego or stupidity. Probably a shot of both with a chaser of denial.
10-year old bike a turd? No way, I flat out disagree. My old Bullit, built exactly how it was in 2005, will be just as effective if we are to use speed as the measure. The dropper post is the only change but I use a Gravity Dropper (simple, light, never fails) so it is pretty much still 2005 over here anyway..
Boost, 110 x 15 axles, 27.5, 27+, and etc might even make the bike a tiny little better (although I am sceptical, since I own a 27.5, and it doesn't change much, but my tubes price) but they are far from being an innovation. That Bold Linkin Trail is an innovation, Lefties were, that DB inline was awesome, and those didn't get bashed by the commenters, although the Linkin air flow is a bit suspicious...
My point is that bright minds are not being shunned by the bike community, they are just not in the big companies. Take Millyard's bike, it looks awesome, but without a big company to back the bike and make it viable we will never have a single sided swing arm, like the BMW GS 1200 has, or gearboxes! I know many are not fans, but I am pretty sure there is a place from them, at least for downhill riding, yet we only have Nicolai making those (right?), also the BOX single lever shifter, and so on...
Many actual improvements are happening, and we have bright minds making cool stuff and being praised for it, yet the apparently not so bright minds in the industry are too busy stuffing our bikes with slightly larger axles and gimmicks.
There are so many genuinely great ideas that do improve our experiences as we ride; recently narrow wide chainrings, clutch mechs etc, and I think it is fair to say those genuinely great, practical, applicable, non-proprietry ideas are universally accepted and rarely require wrapping by the marketing dept.
Yet many people do take issue (maybe too hastily) with the apparently never ending stream of acronyms and trademarks registered to solve problems we didn't know existed and the ways they are sold to us. It has led (many) people to drastically reduce the amount of slack given to the marketing departments. And that is a shame for both the engineers striving to make everything even better and the consumers who are becomming disillusioned with the industry.
In many walks of life, you know something has gone too far when it becomes subject to parody. Transition Bikes' marketing methodology should be a warning to the rest of the industry it may be time to think a little about how they communicate to the consumers.
Just make something that works.
www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-rail-40-wheels-2015.html
and don't get me started on the 27+ hype the industry is trying to get us to go. And bad on Fox for 15mm and CTD.
@mikelevy , I think that at least a part of the backlash from pinkbike comments comes from being treated so disrespectfully by marketing departments like we were in the example above. I also think there are plenty of close minded mountain bikers as well. But aren't some of them close minded as a reaction to this treatment from the marketers?
A little online hate is nothing, compared to the opposition someone like Tesla had to face in his time.
And the Nissan is a good example for someone doing things differently, just for the sake of doing them differently. They do not stand the slightest chance of challenging Audi (even if, by some miracle, Nissan would indeed start or even finish in LeMans this year).
Generally, I don't think looking at auto racing for inspiration is a good recommendation for the bicycle industry. Car manufacturers are spending a quarter of a billion dollars, just to compete for one season in the higher classes like Formula 1 or LMP 1. The kind of "out of the box thinking", that involves running extensive simulations on super computers and countless hours of wind tunnel testing, as well as fundamental research in material science might be just a bit to expensive for someone trying to improve top of the line bicycles, which many people think are way too expensive already.
Still, I think the point is valid, there are too few people thinking out of the box and(!) going through with it, especially in the bicycle industry.
Personally, I think that aspect of going all the way is even more important than to think of something new in the first place.
That's were a lot of ridicule comes from, someone looking at just one little detail that is new, and saying that it won't do much good on it's own. Often, these people are right.
But the mountain bike industry is at a point where there won't be to many revolutionary steps anymore (like going from rigid to full suspension) but a lot of little steps, that, combined, might equal a big step. I think, not to many people are able to feel the difference in stiffness between a straight and a tapered steerer tube. But comparing a bike that has a tapered steerer AND a through axle AND a modern, stiff front triangle with an old bike that has neither, everybody will feel the difference.
And there will come a point, when customers will not be willing to buy a new bike, because hub width has AGAIN been changed to something a little wider, or axle, hub, or handlebar diameters have AGAIN been increased a little, etc. Please, bike designers, think it through first, and be brave enough to decide on the best solution, then go three steps at a time. Yes, people might hate you (even more) at first, but if they ride your newest creation they will also really be able to tell a difference at once.
Just look at the giro Teraduro and many 5.10 shoes as an example, how hard is it to properly glue a sole on???
Back then they had a batch of Guide Tennies that had the "soles falling off" issue. To the extent that people would open the box, put their new shoes on, and the soles would fall off walking around the living room.
The issue with that batch anyway was that the manufacturer in China (or Taiwan or wherever) hadn't let the glue cure at the right temperature/humidity. Apparently 5.10 shoes are made in the same factories as Nikes and everyone else, but with their much smaller volume they often got the short straw with things like curing temperatures etc. Ergo, the quality issues.
Back then, the solution was to hire a bunch of temp workers who spent a week going through the batch of thousands of Guide Tennies, and tried to pull the soles off of every one by hand. Also, while it sucks to have the soles fall off your shoes, at least back we always took really good care of customers who had any kind of quality issues.
This was all before they got bought by Adidas. I'd assume that with Adidas backing them, they're likely getting a bit better treatment at the factory and solving some of the quality issues.
Also, they hype about their special sticky rubber is at least partially true. There really is a lab in a corner of the warehouse where Charles Cole would go and tinker around with different rubber compounds to try and make an even stickier rubber.
The stickyness of their rubber is one of the few reasons why they have made it so far in the outdoor industyry, but compared to Sportiva and Scarpa, the quality of their shoes is really bad, but they do cost the same. . .
Every pair of 5.10 approach shoes and bike shoes I've had from 5.10 the sole has de-laminated, fortunately for me I know how to apply barge cement. . .better than the factory in china.
I have never had that issue with my Shimano, Sidi, Scarpa, Vasque, Sportiva, Saucony or Vans shoes. . . so I think they need to work extra hard on that!
Some people seem to think that it is the C4 rubber that is an issue, but my Vasque Pingora approach shoes (which were the absolute best approach shoes EVER MADE!!!) used C4 rubber and the soles never had an issue despite aiding and jugging multiple routes. . . my brand new Guide Tennies (the new super boxy model) delammed on my first day climbing The Nose last october, while my friends Evolv approach shoes still looked perfect when I saw him in Moab last month. . .
It seems like since the advent of 29ers, major manufacturers are now afraid to miss the boat on any new technology, and regardless of whether it's a step forward or not, they jump on the bandwagon.
There's always a group of people who will fight innovation. That's the closed mindset you refer to. In the larger picture, they tend to not really prevent innovation - they just tend to delay mass acceptance. And they make for better innovation - if there's a hardcore of doubters who will yell about everything new, it raises the bar and makes it harder for whizbang bullshit without value to become a thing (and leave tons of people stranded with crappy gear that they won't be able to get serviced). The cool stuff will eventually break out (droppers, 1x drivetrains, hey, dual suspension used to be laughed at).
The Jekyll is interesting. But there's a real calculation for a consumer to be made here. This thing rides well (I've tried it). But is it better by enough of a margin to where that outweighs the hassles you'll face in getting spares down the line, getting it serviced at another shop if you ever need to, and then reselling it to a skeptic second hand market? Cannondale has a history of slightly outside the box stuff that didn't end up revolutionizing the sport and got abandoned over time.
I thought, well, they don't really know me. I need to prove myself. So, I marketed the book to mountain bikers across the world, sold hundreds of copies, earned 5 star reviews and won a National Book Award. Then I wrote back to PinkBike to tell them of all its success. I figured that when they found out that mountain bikers are loving this book, they would want to share it with their readers. Their response, "Like we mentioned prior, it's just not our typical content." Really?
In the above article it says that, "the cycling world isn't exactly rife with fresh ideas lately." No kidding? Maybe that is because when someone brings forth a new idea PinkBike shuts the door in their face. Thanks guys.
Not all evolution is good. We are 4 legged animals walking round on our back legs. We can however talk, make stuff, drive and ride bikes! Horses cant. Lets embrace all this change for what it is - making our sport better. Example, If you are a die hard 26" fan, good for you. But dont force it in everyones face when they embrace something newer (and maybe better)that has evolved etc etc etc. Every progressive competative sport is the same. There are many sailors that would sing the benefits of wooden yachts however, there is no dening that the latest Americas Cup composite race craft are hands down a million times faster.
@mikelevy Nailed it with this. Every time people say this I think about people in rap forums blaming #illuminati for everything. There's no sinister plan to obsolete your old bike, it's just the way consumer products work. Tech gets better, standards move on, used shit loses its value. Just stop complaining and either (a) start saving up to buy a new bike in a few years, like you probably would have anyway, or (b) do what literally everyone riding an old-ass bike does and take whatever compatible parts you can get. If there are still people riding around on threaded headsets and 7 speeds (there are), you'll be able to find the parts you need if you really want to.
Sure, sometimes the marketing stuff sounds really stupid, and in that sense the companies aren't helping themselves out, but bikes are freaking awesome now. And we never would have gotten there without some marketing hype.
I'm tired of the minor tweaks that get billed as some huge improvement one year to the next. 15% lighter and 10% stiffer, 50% more expensive.... Pulling out your wallet is one place in the real world you will notice these minor differences.The other is trying to sort through the array of "standards" when you have to but a new hub, BB, headset or other part where everyone needs to tweak it by 1 mm to force you to buy their stuff.
Sure you have to have incremental improvement to make a cumulative major change. The mass markets also can't do anything to risky but they do have the ability to drive market demand rather than simply say they don't stray far from the accepted norm because the OEM customers don't ask for it... c'mon Shimano grow some balls.
I hate the 1x parade and I get shit on for saying so. 1x doesn't serve the masses though, not enough total range, look at how people try to get around it, bad chain lines, high wear and tear.
Here is some out of the box thinking. Swap the gear stacks around on the bike. Shimano could build an 8 or 11 speed Alfine BB based around their Hollow tech crank axle. Would move the weight to the middle of the bike wear it should be and wear it is on motorcycles. Then make the rear hub a much simpler 2 or 3 speed that would be lighter on back of bike.
It makes a lot of sense really, would be far more durable and the loss of efficiency is a myth. So why don't they do it? Shimano says no OEM demand... yeah because its not an option, chicken or the egg... The other reason? Like the author says, just watch how people respond to this different approach.
Loss of efficiency is not a myth in the lower gears and the freewheel system capitulates once every 10 km, just when you're standing on the pedals. I was convinced it was the way to go, until I actually gave it a try (for 10 000km).
I'm sure all of these advances had their doubters in their infancy but it takes all of the small steps to keep us moving forward. We wouldn't be where we are today without all of the forward thinkers of the past. I wouldn't change it for a second and I cant wait to see where these forward thinkers take us in the future. I even aspire to be one of them. Watch this space
Most of the criticism comes targeted at "The Industry" as if there is some secret bunch of profit driven bad guys hiding under some giant pile of money somewhere. Profit isnt a dirty word. Its the profit that drives and supports the creative minds out there. Its true that the profit makers don't always back the best thing for the industry but I'm sure if they could back a winner every time they would. Besides most of "The Industry" seem to be a bunch of rad dudes who have managed to turn there love of cycling in to a job.
As betsie said the trails don't care your bike is out of date. Ignore the advances in tech you don't believe in but don't crap on the dudes who are trying to make our collective experience better. Or "The Industry" that brings us all of the things we love.
I dig my 27.5, 29 and 26 inch wheels. I dig my "enduro" bike and my single speed. Most of all I dig mountain biking. All of it.
As always top work mike.
Much credit.
The switch to 27.5" happened at a trade show in Taiwan, 2012, and was done as a group to increase sales. There is no benefit to bigger wheels, other than fit for larger people. There was no inoovation: to quote Moschler from WTB " 26" has been taken off the menu."
Press fit is a cheaper was to manufacture a product, again not innovation...but does increase profit.
Boost sizes, + sizes bigger wheels and press fit BB'sare not
To be confused with game changers like the dropper post: the industry never got rid of regular seat post. Full suspension, the industry never got rid of the rigid, hard tail, SS,etc...
And finally, today's marketing gimmicks will never have the benefits or innovation that disc brakes brought to mountain bike world. You cannot compare something that saves you from crashing in wet weather or trails to something which now requires glue( PPBB) instead of threads, a wheel that is a 1/2" bigger or a new version of an old idea about oversize tires.
I like the article, but I do not think that industry is as innocent as Mike would lead you to think they are. Is it really innovation when you have to remove a tire to true a carbon wheel? Or when you need to be really selective in choosing a Front ring because you only have one...?
The point of my story of bike gluttony is that in each case, the newer bike is better. All 3 bikes are fun; I'd happily ride any of them versus not riding, but the newest bike is by far my favourite of the bunch. And like the writer of the article said, I fully expect that when I eventually replace my newest bike, that replacement bike will again be better. This is as it should be.
Too many people are consumers or trying to "Keep up with the Jone's". Be happy with what you have if your bike is still soing its job ( getting you up and down safely with a big grin) that's all that counts, no one is judging you on the trail. If you have the funds to buy a new bike great good for you. Vote with your wallet.
If anything, i'm glad people like Mike are running this site. People that can provide some well-thought-out observations on user's comments in addition to all the other stuff they do. Its one of the main reasons I keep coming back to this site.
Now compare the 'culture' he helps maintain on this site, to the culture and retarded endless lists of bullshit comments on every Youtube video.
The forks/axle might be slightly lighter, but the hubs are heavier. Any difference is going to be unnoticable to anything but sensitive measuring equipment. It's nothing but a nonsensical inconveniance. Maybe one in 5 hubs will have slightly wider flanges designed around the 110 width, but most will just have wider adaptor cups on them, nullifying any marginal gaines hyped up by marketing
So if I have a 15x110 and fold the wheel or it's stupidly muddy, I can't swap in one of my 2 other wheels with 20x110 in as a temperary measure. (26" in 27.5" fork gives mud clearance).
really??
Seem like not a very good reason to me, but I can prove it is true