FOX's new 36 lineup is, without a doubt, one of the most pivotal in the history of the company. In the last few years we've seen mid-travel suspension go from being nothing to write home about to offering next-level amounts of control and friction-free performance. It's no secret that the Pike has been leading that charge, and, having been available for about a full year now, it's firmly entrenched in many riders' minds as
the fork to have on the front of their their all-mountain or trail bike. With all that in mind, the new 36 range has to not just work well, they all have to blow riders' expectations out of the water if FOX hopes to reclaim the crown that many would say was once theirs. FOX certainly isn't shying away from that challenge, though, and to prove it they invited us to spend part of the first day in Moab on whatever fork we brought with us that we'd like to compare the new 36 to. With an invitation like that, It should come as no surprise that the majority of our small group showed up with Pikes attached to the front of their bikes. Game on.
Same Name, New ForkDon't be mistaken by the similar appearance and familiar name, FOX went back to the drawing board when designing many of the new fork's features, as well as taking some of their already proven layouts and tweaking them to fit the 36's requirements. The chassis features new lowers that are said to be lighter and move back to using a traditional pinch-bolt setup, as well as being compatible with both 15mm and 20mm thru-axles by way of interchangeable inserts, and the crown sports a lower profile to drop the axle-to-crown hight. Even the Kashima stanchions see a revised treatment that FOX claims makes them slipperier than before. Internally, the FIT RC2 damper has its valving changed to better reflect both the support and suppleness that today's riders are looking for, as well as updated sealing that should further aid the latter. FOX's new hydraulic TALAS 5 travel adjust system has been dropped inside on select models. Much of those changes came about as a result of FOX's Racing Application Development program (
RAD for short) that
I was able to sample last November. I spent two days in Moab, Utah, riding the 27.5'' compatible Float 160 FIT RC2 model - the air-sprung, non-TALAS version - on the front of my 2015 Knolly Warden, and you can read what I make of it lower down on the page. For now, let's jump deep into the tech.
36 Float 27.5 160 FIT RC2• Intended use: trail / all-mountain
• Travel: 160mm / 6.3''
• Adjustments: rebound, high-speed compression, low-speed compression
• Volume adjustment
• Travel adjustable down to 130mm in 10mm steps
• Spring: air
• Thru-axle: 15mm or 20mm convertible
• New lowers, crown, revised Kashima coating
• Weight: 4.24lb (
claimed)
• MSRP: $1,050 USD
Options GaloreThe tenth year of the 36 sees it become an entirely new animal, although that's only half of the story here, and it should be mentioned that FOX is giving the consumer a myriad of options when it comes to finding a 36 that suits their needs and the bike they'll be fitting it to. There's the aforementioned convertible 15mm or 20mm axle system, but there are also models to work with 26", 650B, and 29" wheels, and stock travel variations that range from 110mm to 180mm depending on the model and if it makes use of the travel adjust TALAS system or the new Float air spring. Let's not forget that stroke can be adjusted by a further 50mm on Float models as well. Want a 110mm travel 36? That might be a bit extreme, but you can do it. There are also a handful of straight 1 1/8'' steerer tube options to fit older frames should you have a bike that you'd rather not part with just yet, and even a 180mm travel, coil sprung fork with the FIT RC2 damper. There are thirteen different 36s in total, but they all have one thing in common: they're all 'Factory' level FOX forks, meaning that they all sport Kashima coated legs and sit at the top of price range. That will likely change in the future, but for now you'll have to spring for the high-end offering if you want a taste of the new 36. You can
check out the 36 landing page to see the entire lineup.
I travelled to Moab to sample the new 36, but FOX also had other news to share that will affect their entire range of production forks:
| We've always had a hand dyno at the end of the production line, and a person would run through the fork to make sure the knobs felt right and to do a compression test. Now we have a full dyno that we've implemented in the last year that does all that, but also a friction test. It's calibrated for every single fork model, and it has a range. If it doesn't spit out numbers that fit into that range, the fork gets rejected. It's allowed us to really increase our consistency and really quantify things - it's not a guy giving the fork a feel and going 'oh, this one's bad'. We still do use a hand dyno because there's no substitute for someone feeling each knob, but having real numbers to look at has helped us make things really consistent. That's one of the hardest things... you can make a pretty rad product, but can you do it ten thousand times? - Mark Jordan, Global Marketing Manager |
New ChassisThe 36 sees a revised Kashima coating applied to its stanctions, an updated crown and steerer unit that helps to keep fork length as low as possible, and totally new lowers that FOX says are lighter than the previous version. That last point is aided by the move away from a quick release thru-axle system and all of the hardware that comes along with it, but there's also a much more aggressive approach to removing as much unneeded magnesium as possible - there are actually five different taper zones on each side of the fork lowers. ''The 36 hadn't gone through the full chassis revision that our other forks saw in 2013,'' Mark Jordan, FOX's Global Marketing Manager, told Pinkbike. ''There's three things that we look at when we're doing chassis design, and they all go together: there's torsional flex, independent wheel movement (trans-shear) and also fore-aft flex. It's how those work together, combined with the damper, that gives you the ride quality. This fork actually takes notes from the 40 with how we've actually tuned its flex into the design.'' Bushing overlap is said to be another major factor, with FOX telling us that the new 36 has the most of any of their single crown forks. The 36's new thru-axle setup allows for either 15 or 20mm axles to be used by way of aluminum adapters at the axle clamp. The adapters are pushed into place, and a shim extends down into the gap in the clamp that the pinch bolts are run through. There is no quick release thru-axle option, but FOX says that this new compression-less design allows the fork's lower legs to stay in better alignment. ''We're including both axles with the fork,'' Jordan said when asked about consumer availability. ''And you'll get four volume spacers, with one installed in the fork already. We wanted to make it so that when someone buys an aftermarket fork, they'll have everything that they need. And if you look at the wheel size and steerer tube options, there's everything that anyone could ask for.''
While the fork's new crown and steerer unit might not be as glamorous as a fresh lower leg design, the new CSU used on the 36 might actually have a bigger impact on those who are sensitive about handlebar heights. In the past, a 160mm travel 36 was taller than a 160mm travel 34, but Jordan says that's no longer the case: ''The new 36's crown architecture is a lot lower than a 34, which is a result of all the testing and the bigger tubes,'' he explained. But why is that noteworthy? ''What that does is reduce the axle-to-crown length a little bit, and now every 26" and 27.5" 36 fork is comparable to a 34 of the same travel in length, and the new 26" 36 is about 9mm shorter than the older 36. Some of our racers are actually able to run more travel because of this.''
Revised FIT RC2 DamperFOX has been using their RC2 damper cartridge since 2005, and while it's evolved over that time, the same basic principles still apply in 2015. That means that it's still a sealed design that depends on an expanding bladder to compensate for displacement, and also still offers external low-speed compression, high-speed compression, and low-speed rebound adjustments. ''The RC2 damper uses the same sealed layout that we've had since 2005 when the 40 came out, and it's the most consistent and best way to control damping,'' Jordan says of the design. ''We've used the bladder system, which allows for more sensitivity, for a long time now, and it's basically an improved version.''. There's little doubt that FOX wants everyone to be aware that their sealed cartridge and bladder layout was in use nine years before a similarly executed system showed up in the Pike, but they're also hoping that those improvements allow the new 36 to compete with that very fork. One of the most important updates, according to FOX, is a new longer seal head that greatly reduces friction, something that has come from the race-focused RAD 34 fork.
| We're talking about stiffness and the new chassis, but the number one goal with this project, I think, was to make a fork that feels really smooth. It felt like we had a lot of stick-slip in our older forks, and the big difference that consumers were noticing was that some of our competition had a lot better feel to it as far as friction and sensitivity goes. That was the biggest goal with this project, to come up with something that offers an amazingly supple and smooth feel, but still offers support when you need it. - Ariel Lindsley, FOX Fork Expert Engineering Technician |
The cartridge's damping has been altered as well, with a revised compression tune to increase sensitivity that is said to not sacrifice support. ''The re-valve of the RC2 damper added a lot of sensitivity to the fork,'' Ariel Lindsley, FOX Fork Expert Engineering Technician, said of of the changes. ''We started looking at our notes from the race department and test riders and saw that most people were running it really far open for a lot of their settings, and that told us that this thing was way over damped. We changed our low-speed circuit, we changed the orifice size, and we changed other things in there to get a more sensitive off-the-top feel for the fork while still being able to use that low-speed adjuster in situations where you need it.'' There's also been a change to a new, lower viscosity 5wt fork oil in the damper, as well as new 20wt Gold lubrication oil that has been treated with a tackifier that helps to keep it where it's needed most, which is on dynamic surfaces instead of running down and pooling low in the fork.
New Float Air SpringWhile the fork's RC2 damper has seen some important updates, its air spring system has received a total overhaul. The old coil negative spring has gotten the boot, with a new air negative spring in its place. FOX cites the new system's consistency rather than the 94 gram weight loss that accompanies it, with the self-equalizing design meaning that the fork will always be at the same resting length regardless of air pressure. This wasn't the case with the older coil negative spring, with it compressing further when the rider ran higher spring pressures, which would then slightly change the fork's axle-to-crown length. The new self-equalizing design automatically fills the negative air chamber to the correct pressure by way of a bypass port on the inside the shaft, a very similar setup to what you'll find on many air sprung shocks on the market. The 36 is currently the only fork in FOX's lineup to make use of the new Float layout, but we expect it to show up on other models in the future.
FOX has also built-in both volume and travel adjustments into the Float fork's spring leg, with a wide enough range on both to satisfy pretty much anyone's setup requirements. The key point to remember here is that they have created a massively wide range of volume adjustment that is intended to be taken advantage of if you feel the need to run your 36 with less travel than it came stock with. Remember, the less travel you have, the more the spring rate might need to ramp up if you are pushing your riding hard. It's for this reason that four volume spacers - either 7.6cc or 10.8cc each - can be installed in the fork. Jordan explained that it would be very, very rare for any rider, no matter how large, to require all of the spacers if they're running the fork at full travel, and that most riders will only need one or maybe two at most. Drop the travel down by 50mm - the maximum amount - and you could require all four, though. And speaking of travel, it can be set to five different positions in 10mm increments by adding aluminum spacers of that size to the underside of the negative spring plate (shown at right). The job looks pretty simple, although you'll also have to make a quick adjustment to match the height of the negative air chamber bypass hole to your new travel setting. The 180mm Float can be taken all the way down to 130mm, and the 160mm travel fork can be lowered to 110mm, meaning that we could see some interesting setups out there. Want a super burly dirt jump or cross-country fork?
36 TALAS While previous versions of TALAS utilized an air transfer system to raise and lower the fork in its travel, FOX moved to a hydraulic system in 2014 that allows the fork's stroke to be tweaked in 5mm increments and 30mm of overall change, and this is exactly what you'll find in the 2013 36 TALAS forks. The revised layout uses just one dynamic seal as opposed to the older system's three, and it's also decoupled from the fork's air spring, giving FOX more flexibility when it comes to tuning the spring curve. The design works by transferring oil from one chamber to another by way of check balls that block the oil's passage. When in long travel mode, the TALAS unit sits at full extension at the top of the cartridge, with the majority of the oil in the TALAS unit itself. Turning the lever to the left allows the check balls to move, opening up ports that let the oil flow from the larger TALAS chamber to a zone between the cartridge wall and the outer wall of the TALAS unit, thereby pulling the TALAS element down into the cartridge and effectively shortening its overall length. The 36's air spring is still adjusted via a schrader valve in the center of the TALAS dial, with a long tube running down through the center of the unit and into the air spring chamber.
The latest TALAS system has also given FOX a simple and quick way to adjust the fork's travel when in its shorter travel setting, with clip-on spacers that snap over the outer tube of the TALAS unit. These 5mm spacers adjust the position of the shorter travel setting by limiting the movement of the hydraulic travel adjuster. If you're looking to tune how much travel the fork has when dropped down, simply unthread the spring-side top cap and clip on one or more of the 5mm spacers that restrict the total movement of the TALAS unit.
It isn't often that I fly into a product launch with my own test bike, a 2015 Knolly Warden, and am encouraged by my host to spend the initial ride
not making use of their new offering. That is exactly what went down during my recent trip to Moab, Utah, to evaluate FOX's new 36 Float 27.5 160 FIT RC2 fork, though, with the first lap of our test loop being ridden with the bike's stock Pike on the front of it. FOX wasn't shying away from a straight comparison, you see, but rather inviting a head-to-head, back-to-back, cage match of sorts, with maximum ride time and minimal propaganda. Brave, but refreshing. The plan for the first day was to smash out three laps, the first on the stock Warden, and then roll by the FOX pits to swap in the new 36 before doing two more longer laps. The second day consisted of even more saddle time, all with the 36 under me, and plenty of the rocky, rough, and unforgiving terrain that Moab has become famous for - it's the kind of place where every inch of ground looks like it has teeth, and where knee pads feel as mandatory as a helmet.
There are a few points of comparison that we'll be talking about below, but the most important, at least in my mind, has to be how the 36 compares to the Pike when talking about its ability to support the rider by staying high in its travel without feeling harsh. This sort of thing is all about finding the correct amount low-speed compression damping - too much and the fork will ride harsh, too little and it will dive deep into its stroke when you're on the brakes - all while creating the most supple action as possible. And that's one of the other things that FOX must hit out of the park: sensitivity. The 36 has to absorb the smallest of trail chatter like a sponge absorbs water. Effective damper adjustments, just the right amount of progression to its stroke, and chassis rigidity can't be forgotten about, either.
Sensitivity - It feels like FOX has matched the Pike in this regard, with the 36 offering up friction-free travel straight out of the box. This is a big step up for FOX, as their older forks never seemed to be the most active on the market. That issue looks like it has been solved, though, and I'd say that the 36 is as supple throughout its travel as its main competitor. The one caveat that I should mention is that the fork I put time on in Moab isn't actually straight off the production line, but rather assembled with 2015 production parts in an area where the FOX factory gears up for assembling consumer forks. However, I was told that it didn't see any sort of special treatment (
no bushing re-sizing or special lube ect), which means that there's no reason that a production 36 shouldn't be equally supple.
Air Spring - The 36 felt to have more than enough ramp-up in its stroke to keep me from hitting bottom harder than Toronto mayor Rob Ford, and its volume adjustment system looks like it could be tuned to keep even the square shaped, crack smoking Canadian politician from blowing through all the travel. I kicked off testing with the fork pumped up to 77psi, and while I admit to expecting to have to give it a few more pumps of air, I actually ended up dropping it down to 70psi and feeling pretty good about it. Granted, this is also surely a function of the fork's well sorted damping, but I'd say that FOX looks to have got the 36's spring curve to behave in a very useable way. Looking back now, I likely started a touch high due to how sensitive the fork's stroke is, a trait that had me nervous about it going through its travel too fast, and ended up preferring the more forgiving ride that the lower air pressure offered. Of course, this wouldn't be possible if the new 36 didn't have adequate compression damping, but I'll touch on that later on.
Torsional Rigidity - Given all the possible variables - basically everything on the front of your bike - this is always a tough one to gauge, especially when you're talking about riding an unfamiliar fork on even more unfamiliar terrain. Simply using a different front wheel, a tire with a stiffer or more forgiving casing, or even changing tire pressure can alter your perception of a fork's torsional rigidity. That said, with the 15mm thru-axle conversion kit installed, the new 36 felt every bit as flex-free as the Pike or X-Fusion's Vengeance platform. Situations where this sort of evenly matched comparison is evident would be moments when you're forced to corner hard at the bottom of a steep slope or compression, or even landing on uneven ground. The pinball-like sections found on Moab's LPS trail were also a good proving ground, and the 36 seemed to have no trouble in any of it, as we'd expect given its size.
Damping - And now I get to the deal breaker. FOX is well aware that if they stumble on this, the most important aspect of any high-performance fork, the 36 would be panned and that respect from aggressive riders who know what works and what doesn't might not ever return. Yes, the 36's FIT RC2 damper is an entirely different animal to the CTD cartridges used elsewhere in their fork range, but they simply can't have a repeat of 2013's underdamped offerings, can they? FOX obviously knew that as well, because the new 36 is very, very impressive when talking about balancing low-speed compression, high-speed control, and offering an effective adjustment range. How good is it? Good enough that, after two days of hard riding in Moab, I'd say that it at least equals the Pike in those areas. The big one for me is the amount of low-speed compression control on tap, with it able to strike the hard to find balance that offers good support without verging on harshness,
something that RockShox might have beaten FOX to by a year but that the 36 now matches. Again, I actually ended up dialling out the fork's LSC dial from thirteen clicks to ten, and experimenting at the extreme ends of the range showed that there's a wide enough span to make the setup process a cinch. This low-speed control, paired with the excellent spring rate, added up to what I like to call "invisible suspension". What am I talking about? It's a reference to when something simply works so well that you no longer register it during the ride, a sign that you've got a dialled setup going.
The issue of reliability aside - two days time obviously told me nothing on that front - my only real complaint is the amount of noise that the damper makes as it works to control the fork. It's actually loud enough to hear when bombing down a rough 4x4 road at a good pace, and while I'm sure it has little to no effect on performance, I did find it a bit annoying at times. It's definitely louder than the Pike, the Vengeance, and Manitou's new Mattoc, and sounds similar to SR Suntour's damper when it's working hard.
| Two days of riding, however rough and challenging, certainly isn't enough for me to comment on reliability, or even on any sort of longterm impressions. But, given the terrain and my familiarity with the fork that FOX is trying to out-perform, it is enough for me to make some strong calls. How do I see it? The new 36 equals the Pike on all fronts, at least in my mind, and while the basic layout of their FIT cartridge and appearance of the fork remains the same, they've obviously made huge strides in the execution of both. For those who are looking at numbers, its retail price is extremely close and fork weight is within grams of the Pike. It might sound like I'm taking a bit of a soft stance by saying that the new 36 seems to be equal to the Pike rather than better or worse, but two days time on it isn't really enough to make such a definitive call. What I am sure of, however, is that FOX has made up ground on their competition, and that is good news for anyone who likes to ride their mid-travel bike hard. - Mike Levy |
www.ridefox.comPhotos by Colin Meagher
Would love to here Mikes perspective on what he would do if given the choice. Starting with a 29" Factory 34 Float CTD. Get the 34 Push'ed, get a new 36, get a Pike, or do nothing. That's my predicament anyway.
We have no idea how much 4.24 lb is, and we are waaaay too lazy to look it up ourselves
I (an American) also prefer the metric system for components. I only like imperial pounds for full bike weights.
Oddly, I use the imperial system in everyday life (gallons of gas, degrees Fahrenheit for weather, pounds for bodyweight) but professionally, as a biologist, I use the metric system.
I must say, the day we Americans kill the Imperial system will be the greatest day of my life.
Probably won't be for a while. We have too many old farts running the show.
3 seconds later...http://goo.gl/PY1kh9
Viva la internet!
You can perform it yourself as I did with a minimum of tools, it only takes half an hour if you're not an experienced mechanist (I'm not).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nninf6lN0SA
Fox big issue was that you have to send back the fork for service. Rock Shox has not the same politics and I find that smart for us.
Maybe Fox improve the new 36 service process in order to make it home mechanist friendly ?
1) actually the way you tune each damper is different, even when they apparently offer the same standardish "RC2" type configuration. You really need a guide per damper and even there you get variations through the years and model ranges.
The responsibility here lies with the suspension manufacturer as they should know *exactly* how to get the best from their units, but it seems that what is produced is inconsistent and sometimes just wrong. For instance Marzocchi tell you to set sag on their 55 RC3 using the air preload, but just about every review I've read screams out to not touch the air but use spring preload. WHY WHY WHY?
2) even for a specific damper, people seem to come to completely different conclusions. You read any tuning guide and you'll get a huge range of opinions.
So really, these untis should be supported by informed, and consistently correct tuning advice by their manufacturers and sadly that's not the case in most cases (honourable mention goes to Cane Creak for their CCDB set up database).
However, if you want a really short guide:
1) set sag. On an air spring use the air; on a coil spring try to get the right weight coil so you don't have to apply preload, as spring preload should be fine-adjust; then fine adjust with spring preload
2) wind off all the compression and rebound, so that there is none applying. First of all work on rebound.
3) Rebound is the damper which slows down how quickly the suspension returns. Too much and the bike feels unresponsive to pumping and generally a bit dead; you will also find the suspension packs up over successive bumps and you run out of suspension in the end, which starts bucking you around a bit. Too little and things will feel like a pogo stick; this is particularly undesirable when landing from jumps and drops, where you want your bike to settle immediately and not sproing you back in to the air
4) Low speed compression relates to weight transfer. It doesn't mean you are either going fast or slow, it's just weight transfer. Examples are: braking - does the fork dive badly? G-outs - again do you find the suspension using up too much of its travel front or back and leaving you none for the brake bumps? Too much and typically your suspension will feel harsh on the small stuff, which translates in to a reduction in grip.
5) High speed compression is square edge hits. You want your suspension to be bottoming out only on the very biggest hits you're going to take. If it's not then leave HSC alone, if it is, dial it in until it reduces.
that's the basics, but there's a whole bunch more advanced tweaking on some suspension, which can allow you to rebaseline the entire unit's range for instance.
And there's shims, which allows you to tweak the curve of the compression. I can't say I know anything about this but would be interested if someone does.
And there's volume adjusters for air shocks. Generally by reducing volume you make the spring curve more exponential which in the end becomes very spikey; and if you increase the volume you flatten it off but have to put more pressure in it. Volume can be adjusted with special plastic bits designed for the job, or a few cc's of suspension fluid equating to the same volume. Generally rear air shocks have increased in volume over the last few years since it allows the suspension designer to work with a longer flatter curve which can then be controlled with dampers.
Anyway that's my Internet opinion. Cheers
Fox 36's were £899 or less depending on model.
Rock Shox tend to have more available stock in the UK via Fishers than Fox do via Mojo. The result is that RS get discounted more as they push them at dealers. So whereas you might see 36's at £100-150 off list you see Pikes at up to £300 below list. There's also the product sourcing to take into account, RS are a cheaper product, made with less expensive labour than Fox forks, (that's not a slight on the product quality, just stating a cost of production fact).
A 36 owner.
but that's when i decide to change my 2005 marzocchi drop off 2. its regularly serviced and runs like a champ! the stanchion coating hasn't even faded over time. haha
Just acoupleconcerns
But what is the recommended service interval? The old fox always wanted some like 22 hours, while RS went 50.
Also, considering this fork measures up to the vengeance, which is way cheaper I think i'll look there for my next new fork.
1. In EU Rock Shox Pike RCT3 can be had for a little over 600€. The list price of the 2015 Fox 36 Float 27.5 is 1099€ and you never see Fox stuff discounted here. The review says that the 2015 36 is as good as Pike, but you can almost get two Pike RCT3's for the price of this Fox!
2. Recent buyers of many 150mm-160mm 27.5 bikes can't be too happy. Majority of those bikes have been and are still specced with Fox 34, which in 2013 had bad damping. 2014 damper is better but still that chassis is too skinny for many of these bikes. Think something like Scott Genius LT 700 Tuned - 170mm bike with Fox 34! We were clearly in transition period last year with 150-160mm 27.5 forks, where Fox 34 was the only option because Pike was just coming out and Fox 36 was not released.
If riders had the choice, they'd all pick 20mm over 15mm...too bad forks can't be banged out like chainrings and cogs otherwise riders would dictate what they would run (like they've done with drive trains) and there'd be no &^%$%&!@!! 15mm . I will never get over what a shitscam that forced standard was. Until I start thinking about pressfit BB's. No, 15mm takes the prize.
OK, back to the 36.
and then again pike is far under msrp and Fox up until now has been known for almost staying at this price. . .who wins then? :-D
same rc2 dampner since 2005, just different shims and ports? pinch bolts, interchangeable front axels (really).
"Fox Hits Back" www.pinkbike.com/news/FOX-34-TALAS-FLOAT-X-FIRST-IMPRESSIONS.html
"Fox Fires Back"
Very creative. Exactly who are they retaliating against? You make it seem like Fox has something to prove. Oh, wait. And where is Fox in the comments? You seem to be the only one supporting them here. It is a very nice fork on paper, by the way.
P.S. Nice pic (The first one) of you popping off the slick rock. Thumbs up. You actually look like you can ride.
Which is very simple (at least for the pike, don't know for fox).
Damping system (cartridge) service interval is100 hours for both rock shox Charger and fox FIT.
Check the service intervals for the new marz 350 CR: cartridge oil replacement is due for 25 (intensive) or 50 (nominal) hours.
Oil change (don't know what they are talking about) is is due for 50 (intensive) or 100 (nominal) hours.
So, given their documentation, marzo intervals are the same or shorter than fox & RS.
awesome! tell us how it is after you spend some time on it
From my internet riding however, I can tell that the Metric will be king.
It's got the same lowers as the RV1 and pressure equalizer valves for cryin out loud. I don't know what single crown fork (for 650b) says "please ride me downhill" more than that.
Let all the air out of shock to test for 650b clearance at crown. So if the new ones have 9mm less a to c then its got to be its coming straight off of tire clearance.
Also so much healthy competition about-pike, mattoc, x-fusion and the dvo diamond. The main winning point there is setup choice for fox.
the reason that is written above, "There is no quick release thru-axle option, but FOX says that this new compression-less design allows the fork's lower legs to stay in better alignment" sounds suspicious. I think tightening the bolts is like compression or?
so there we have it, they did it for weight weenies...
2015 Fox 36 Floats will be circa £1000
203 disc will be too big for bushings?
2015 Fox 36 Floats will be circa £1000 ?
It is all about how well it performs. Fox knew that they were losing customers fast when the new Pike came out. They have responded.
I also really like the 15mm/20mm changeable axle.
I do love the competition. We, the customers, will all benefit in the future unless prices continue to get more outrageous as technology improves...
If my local shop doesn't ask for MSRP, why would I pay it? Unless they have to order it, most parts and even whole bikes are marked about 10% below MSRP. I never said I ask for (or demand) deals. Way to jump to conclusions...
Though I'm sure you'll still have the middle aged more money than sense crowd to still buy into your shiny Kashima.
Ask any rider on this site to build themselves a dream bike where you can forget about prices during selection.
What do you think they all end up doing?
Would I choose these new 36's given the choice? simple answer No. They'd have to be a damn shed load better performance wise than the Pike to ever warrent rummaging around in the rain for a 5mm Allen/hex key to undo bloody pinch bolts again!
If I am 100% honest the deville is a better performing fork than the Pike..... BUT with god awful aftercare from BOS I'd go for the pike every time.
For fox price tag you mostly get kashima hype and a little damping for years.
For RS price tag you recently get less hype and a little more damping.
For BOS price tag you get no hype and a lot of damping (and some service issues, too).
For me it seems that Fox is a big, well established company, resting on its laurels and riding the gravy train since Bob Fox leaves and their acqusition by an equity firm in 2008 (and went public in 2013). But they are not as good as they were in the past when they brought to MTB their motorbike expertise, their products are no longer in advance on their concurrent as they were 10 years ago. Technological gap no more.
Concurrence is strong today, and remember all the CTD affair, you will see that for marketing and hype needs, they sacrificed a functionnal product line for an oversimplified, mass-oriented communication concept.
The fact they had bad reviews for years doesn't brought them to change their strategy or pricetag, demonstrating that their present success is no more based on performance nor quality but marketing, hype and communication (check the amount of advertisement pages monthly). And thanks to that, most of non-enthusiast riders just goes on wanting fox on their bikes...
The proof is they just released a product which is just as concurrential as RS from the damping point of view BUT with a higher pricetag and a lower functionality for the same weight (no QR - don't want to unscrew 4 screw to load my bike in my car), and most of people are ready to throw their Pikes away, which is totally illogical. OK, it's golden. Can't beat that.
I think that as enthusiast and dedicated riders, we deserve better.
Bottom line is that if you got big money to invest on dust-eating toys, maybe you should consider other brand than fox for getting the very top of suspension performance.
At least if you are looking for performance instead of hype, but it is only my point and it doesn't aim to offend anybody.
As an example Santa Cruz bronson builds last year were all fox, this year the nomad is rockshox front an back.
Big manufactures ditching fox for rockshox (and other brands) must have cost them a lot lately.
Also the niggles (ie pinch bolts) become less significant when looking at a fork attached to a bike rather than on its own.
Will note though that a lot of the pros did swap the qr to pinch bolts to save weight... Although as real time application for most riders I still think sucks