Santa Cruz V-10 CarbonHere it is, a bike that if given the chance, a lot of readers would gladly trade a kidney or loved one for without batting an eye. With its scheduled release date fast approaching in the coming new year we thought it was high time to swing a leg over this superbike of superbikes to find out exactly what makes it tick, and let me tell you, there is a whole lot more to talk about than Santa Cruz's use of carbon fiber to build their premier downhill bike. The new V-10.4 is not only more adjustable, letting you tweak both the travel and head angle, but also sports new larger pivot bearings and hardware, a 1.5" headtube, and a longer stroke shock than what was used in the not so distant past. Total weight of our test bike? 35.6 lbs! Impressive considering that this is a stock build straight from Santa Cruz - some extra coin spent will have you in the mid 33's without getting too crazy. Keep reading to get your geek on.
The engineers at Santa Cruz knew that they could design and produce a lighter, faster, and stronger carbon version of their much loved V-10 downhill bike, but you have to wonder if they were 100% sure that today's riders are ready for such a thing. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that most of our minds were not open to the idea, and I would say that there are those out there who never will be, no matter how many stringent tests it passes or how reliable it is in the real world. As for myself, I say bollocks, this is the real deal. Not only is it impressively light, our carbon frame and Vivid Air shock weigh in at 8.6 lbs, but it's also said to be as strong and even stronger in some regards than its aluminum predecessor. A perfect example of this would be the headtube and downtube junction where the carbon material is nearly half an inch thick. This really highlights carbon's ability to be used sparingly where not much material is needed, but layered on thick or even in different layups in high stress areas. While the burly junction up front may not be able to be seen without looking at a cutaway, the frame's smaller than average diameter downtube is more obvious. While everyone seems to be going towards massive, but thin, tubes that can be susceptible to rock strikes, the engineers at Santa Cruz went the opposite direction. Not only does the smaller diameter present a smaller target for impacts, but thicker material has been used to resist any damage that could be caused by rocks being thrown up from the front wheel or in crashes.
The carbon frame is the big news, but this bit of detail is what should excite a lot of people as well. With its 10" of travel the previous iterations of the V10 may have been pigeonholed by some as simply being "too much bike", even if they hadn't ever ridden it in anger. The 2011 V-10.4 goes a long way to appealing to more riders by featuring a simple and easy to use adjustable travel system on the lower link that lets you reign in the travel out back to 8.5", which also lowers the bottom bracket and slackens the steering angle. All one needs to do is remove the shock bolt and flip the aluminum inserts, quick and easy. This should completely change the character of the bike and allow you to decided how much feedback from the terrain you are looking for and whether you want a more playful steed or a bike that stays low and fast. While this may necessitate a spring change on frames equipped with a coil shock, the Vivid Air bolted to our carbon '10 will require only an air pressure adjustment. Working with the travel adjust to let you have your cake and eat it as well is the bike's adjustable head angle via the included Cane Creek AngleSet headset. Depending on your rear wheel travel choice, you can settle on a head angle as slack as 63 degrees in the 8.5" travel mode and 66 degrees in the longer travel setting by using different cups. This nifty piece of hardware could well be the product of the year.
It isn't always about being as light as possible. Much hoopla has been made about the carbon frame's impressive weight, and rightfully so, but this has allowed the bike's designers to actually beef up other aspects of the bike without being penalized for it. For example, larger and therefore heavier pivot bearings have been utilized, but the benefit should be even better reliability. The bike also uses expanding collet pivot axles to keep everything tight, but also quiet, during the season. Hidden from view is the bike's ISCG05 chain guide tabs. Made from carbon, the tabs are incredibly beefy and the frame is now fully taco approved (tab mounted chain guides voided the aluminum frame's warranty).
If you're going to test out one of the most advanced and anticipated downhill bikes ever made you should probably hang some of the best components possible off of it. Two complete bikes are available, both using the same frame, but differing in parts. Our test bike comes kitted out with the higher end parts, including a beautiful set of black Race Face Atlas cranks and DT wheelset that is built around their premium 440 hubs. The black machine is air sprung on both the front and rear, with the RockShox BoXXer World Cup fork complimenting the new RockShox Vivid Air shock. Keeping the chain in place is a proven e.13 guide.
Specifications
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Release Date
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2011 |
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Price
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$6972 |
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Travel |
8.5" /10" |
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Rear Shock |
RockShox Vivid Air |
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Fork |
RockShox Boxxer World Cup |
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Headset |
Cane Creek Angleset |
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Cassette |
Shimano HG 80, 11-28 |
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Crankarms |
Race Face Atlas |
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Chainguide |
e.13 |
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Bottom Bracket |
Race Face |
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Pedals |
n/a |
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Chain |
KMC X9 SL |
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Rear Derailleur |
SRAM XO short cage |
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Front Derailleur |
n/a |
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Shifter Pods |
SRAM XO right trigger |
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Handlebar |
Easton Havoc Lo 31.8mm |
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Stem |
Thomson |
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Grips |
Lizard Skin Peaty lock on |
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Brakes |
Avid Elixir CR Mag w/ 203mm front 185mm rear rotors |
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Wheelset |
DT FR FR600 rims laced to DT 440 hubs w/ DT 14 guage spokes, brass nipples (20mm front hub) |
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Hubs |
DT 440 |
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Spokes |
DT |
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Rim |
DT FR FR600 |
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Tires |
Maxxis Minion DHF dual ply 2.5 wire |
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Seat |
WTB Silverado SLT |
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Seatpost |
Thomson Elite |
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While they certainly could have made the rear end of the bike out of carbon, Santa Cruz didn't see the advantages of it at this point in time. This aluminum swingarm, the very same as you can find on the Driver 8, is not only as light as they thought a carbon version could be, but it's also easier to produce and keeps the price reasonable as well I'd imagine. Carbon used where it makes sense, up front, and not where it isn't needed, out back. I have to say that it is refreshing to see something not being done simply because they can, but because it isn't needed.
Looking for more information? Have a look at the
great piece that we did with Santa Cruz engineer Josh Kissner that goes into more detail of the carbon frame. Check out the
Santa Cruz website as well.
Lighter, stronger, more adjustable... all around better than the aluminum version? At this point in time it is hard to fault the new carbon bike. Hell, it's even essentially the same price as its metal relative was at $2999 USD for the frame. Stay tuned for the in depth test, but for now let the discussions begin below! I know you have an opinion on the new carbon downhill bike from Santa Cruz, so let's hear it!
HOWEVER, my mate has got his STEEL framed brooklyn machine works down to about 37Lbs now as a full race bike... so when you think about it, is it worth that much for the weight drop? (obviously it is for the pimp factor!)
Althogh it sounds like im bashing this bike, im not... it sounds amazing, id ride it any day
Recent news: Bob I am standing here in Kicking Pig bike park which witnessed a nearly tragic situation where several young man almost dehydrated themselves to death due to constant several minute lasting-pissing their pants. Rason for that remains uncertain but park authorities said it happened right after some guy came on the lift with a super sexy bicycle which is suspected to be the new Santa Cruz V10carbon. Henry Rogers from bike patrol told us that similar accident happened when a young boy crapped himself after spotting a new Devinci Wilson. Stool falling out his trousers contaminated the brake pads just before the steep rock section.
Take my advice everyone! you buy that bike and if this peeing your pants at sight is true: have some tears offs with you all the time! and the long visor!
What is most terrible with such discussions is that if they take too long, people go so nerded into their beliefs pro and against any design that they loose any distance to the case. Then weirdest most primitive stupid arguments are being pulled out: must be good they use it in NASA, blaa wood also has good weight to strength ratio blaa FFS! Are you actualy reading what you just have written?!
Distance guys distance... and I say this just in case (cause you never know who's reading) I don't mean any measure! like the one between seatpost axis and head tube axis a.k.a top tube length...
Right now for me personally CF bikes are so expensive and offer so little advantage (yet still they offer it!) over an alu bike I have right now, that I just won't buy any of them! However while I could consider myself changing my old Nomad for CF Nomad (if i.e mine gets broken), I have no lust whatsoever to change for the new alu bike, because that's an even smaller gain. I might consider an used alu one though, just to save some money.
www.santacruzbicycles.com/v10_carbon/#builder.php
So Mike...when can I borrow it? He he.
I just need to give my two cents; this is hands down the best bike I have ever ridden. I have been riding for 18 years. I am a hack THE hack my bikes cart wheel down the hill behind me more than I ride them. I ride six-seven days a week I put 73 days in the whistler bike park on the carbon v10 this summer with nothing more than cosmetic paint chips in the down tube and scuffs from the dakine gate pad. The current vpp set up with grease ports allows anyone to wash grease lube chain and put your bike away till tomorrow. There is no creaking no fatigue and it’s the same price virtually as the alum version which was amazing but nothing like the 10.4 knock carbon all you want boys and girls but also be ready to get passed by the guy or girl on carbon bike who spends way less time working on their bike and more time smiling and riding. Has anyone been watching the world cups? ya maybe the w.c. racers get new gear more often than average Joe us But performance is everything, Get on your local shops backorder list or miss out... search bikerguysctrp on YouTube earlier this summer I put together a short video with the carbon v10 on Goats gully. Remember riding is an easy way to find that happy place. Cheers
The thing that stood out more was the following. He was saying that we'll see a lot more manufacturers going across to carbon, and the price of carbon bikes will come down heavily. Why? Companies can buy carbon as flat sheets. Therefore a company can bulk buy carbon sheets and press only the bikes they need for that year. Then if their design changes they can just press our different ones the following year. This reduces waste each season, and saves them having a whole bunch of Alu frames that have been designed to obsolete spec, geo etc that they have to sell off cheap.
Now I am no expert on Carbon, engineering or anything to do with building bikes. But I know business and economics, and to me (if this is actually true what this guy was saying) then it seems like a no brainer. Regardless of what you may think about the values of companies etc..If it produces a bike that is better to the market, and lifts their bottom line. 9 out of 10 times...they'll do it.
signed: an architect -> we hate each other
Signed: know-it-all geek
- thinks he knows a lot about everything from every discipline (structure, materials, function, facilities management, economy, sociology, fine arts
-considers himself an artist just as every other type: sculptors, painters etc. While 99% of the time he spends on meeting with clients and drawing win Cad
- thinks himself to be highly skilled in all possible software 2D CAD, 3D CAD, 3D visualization, 2Dpostprod like PS (while 99% of the time he draws in AutoCAD LT and SketchUP)
- as soon as an consulting expert points out some lack of problem understanding, he draws out the DESIGN argument.
- he rides a trendy looking bicycle preferably an "Apple" looking foldable, so he can take it to the meeting rooms so clients or experts can see his "low carbon footprint approach".
- white is the colour mostly used in fancy interiors, he puts it everywhere, floors, ceilings, walls, doors, chairs - all you miss is a girl from The Ring and a blood pool on the floor. At the same time 99% architects wear black...
- he tries to use MAC as much as possible, and brings one to the meetings, while nearly none of the CAD software works well with it.
- sees himslef as an bochemian party guy, when most arch students get blue screen tan at nights, while stiff engineers in student house next door party till they are down.
damn she was cute... she sounded a bit sour on the phone so I got this stereotype image in my head, then I met her and she was the cutest round 40 woman I ever saw, and I'm 28...I was telling to myself, stop staring Wacek, fukin behave! I get this weird thing going on after I turned 25 and got married, I lost nearly all attraction to younger girls, should help me out when the midlife crisis comes along...
I hope this offtopic cools down some of guys here, draging their attention abit away from CF, seriously some guys geek lenses got such a zoom on this material that the sanity lost focus...
BTW: Calculation of stress, deformation and especially fatigue in a directional fiber reinforced plastic is not trivial and there are very few calculation guys who know what they are doing, I'm not one of them, and I'm quite sure that none of them is working in the bicycle industry...
To get into it R&D guys are the engineers bit closer to architects. It means we understand each other bit better as we create stuff, don't solely go into testing whether the given solution or material works at all. That does not mean you guys are any worse, I totaly appreciate your job, and I believe that most ignorant thing to do (and many maaany architects think that) is to consider expert consultants such as stress calculation guys, ventilation, sanitary or whatever, to be geeks sitting in tight rooms in front of old 13" monitors. Well there's plenty of bastards considering themselves arty and creative, thinking that way, but I'm not one of them.
BUT for normal bikers with normal income that thing is just a vision of the future :-)
Carbon does flex and can flex allot!
It´s the designer that desides how much a carbon product flexes.
That is controlled with the one dirrectional layers in the frame.
Then the waved matterial support´s as a top layer.
The flex is allso controlled with different types of carbon sheets and the % of resin in the product.
Now i can only suggest you do some research on your own before you say anything more stupid.
It wont effect the carbon frame untill the force is so high that it would deffinetly ruin a frame with alu tubing.
And not at any time has a metal bike been proven stronger than a carbon frame if anyone compare two frames that weigh the same the carbon is always stronger.
And even if i get a nick in my frame i deffinetly wont worry at all because there are many more layers under the "nicked" ones that will keep the frame strength well above an top alu frame still!
So please more stupid comment´s please, like "it´s prowen stronger" and "kiss it goodbye" is just funny to read. So please continue making me laugh...
Congrats!
A nick in a carbon frame with as many layers as these DH frames have will not weaken the frame!
I have worked as a bike mecanic, metal worker, welder and with carbon making top quality produkts.
If you don´t have any experience working with this matterial don´t argue with pepole that have.
Cheers.
A carbon construction will only snap completly in two where it has been glued together or where there is only epoxy in the construction without the carbon fabric in it.
Notice that these frames have Kevlar matterial in the top layer on the down tube and that can hold the frame together if the carbon cracs...
And the carbon will not give in because the human body does not take the same abuse as a bike frame layered with that much carbon.
Carbon is the future, you guys better get use to it!
vid.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=12jgP_NFDd4 />
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-fbSHENjHc&list=PL532C02035762658A&index=28&playnext=2 />
You can see how flexible some threaded carbon fabriks can be.
These treaded layers are used as a top layer but the layers underneath are one directional and allow the designer to control the flex and optimize strength at any given point or spezific direction in the frame.
2.Yea Alu shows signs of damage right, after some proper carnage when you see a dent or a proper crack. I assure you there are lots of people on alu frames riding at the moment I write this rant, with small cracks near welds of their swingarms or headtubes. Stuff you don't see until you wash your bike and look super closely, preferably having other person to push down on the bike to make the structure work under load - a thing very few people do.
2 -> its entirely upto the rider to check over their bike and im aware most people dont, however if they did they would be able to spot a problem. not so much with carbon fiber
Just a side note from someone who knows a bit about composites: Every thread where carbon is mentioned, an advantage that is always mentioned is the fact that you can specify the layup to give directional properties; ie. withstand higher loads in certain directions. This is true, but only up to a point. You can never build a structure with only unidirectional fibres; as it will be far too weak in the other (bending and compressive) directions, and also prone to splitting. You will therefore always need other directions (usually 45Âş and 90Âş) fibre plies to "hold" the structure together. With thick section components (eg yacht masts) these other directions don't need to comprise a large percentage of overall material, but when you move to thinner section (eg bike frame) the relative amount off-axis plies that are required increases a lot. Things like bike frames are thus a lot less directionally tailored than you would think.
Ken
Everybody else: I thought Canadians were using the metric system so why do you want to support the Americans stupid stone age Imperial unit system. Wake up! The whole world is using metric system except USA, Burma and Liberia.
www.unsoughtinput.com/index.php/2007/06/19/united-states-of-america-and-the-metric-system
www.meh.ro/original/2010_02/meh.ro3551.jpg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units
Carbon done right is hot hot hot, and SC looks to have done it right imo! But let’s not get into weight debates, the new DWL DHR is 9.5lbs with coil shock and no thin lizzy like the 1st gen Session for ex, it’s all about execution in any form of material sometimes that comes at a cost! Don’t get caught up in marketing hype, carbon has been around a long time and done right for along time in other industries as has alloy and steel….
This is one frame that could turn me to SC, but I'll wait a year or so lol.
I use Exilir Rs on my DH bike no issues, bleed and setup ya brakes from new and ya won't have a problem, if ya do ya riding wrong and braking too much too hard, which is slow, or you ride 8hrs a day in Morzine!
"'Ridden it in anger," that's good stuff.
Sweet rig.
Also" Tommp" santa cruz would not build a bike which needs rebuilding after every ride, get with the programme!!! do you really thing they would risk their reputation theyve built up after all these years and let a production bike be un reliable and need servicing every five minutes!!?? I very much doubt it. Ive just ordered one of these frames and im a big santa cruz fan, i wil keep you all posted, although u prob wont see me on it too much as soon as i ride it the rear end will need servicing haha
and for example guys like B.Lopez(Ibis) S.Peat(v10)they can change frames every each race ,as like brett878 says
wakidesigns.pinkbike.com/blog/CFforum.html
Even though some idiot desited using cf XC bars for something they where not desingned for!
Most all XC products will fail on a DH rig, metal and carbon.
when the codes first came out they were considered overkill.
i have been using juicy 7's on my dh bike for years now and i never thought they were underpowered and the elixer's are even more powerful than the 7's.
They both sucked ass going down. Only good for trail/AM bikes imo.
Traded up to saints.
Still I'm not sure what is it that you don't like about them. If you are as spoiled as me with Saints though, or you have maybe even tried Formulas The One: well then every other brake system will most probably be disappointing to you
What I know is: people are different and have different likes regardless of teKnology, if there are people who like riding FIXIES in city centres, then I truly believe that anything can feel great to someone... -so let's maybe cut this offtopic brake subcomment as some fixer will hang around with NO BRAKES is the best
EDIT : ok there's actually a 2kg difference ^^" sorry bout that
sorry man that is one of the most ridiculous speculation things I ever read... the whole bike weighs 35lbs, a DH coil fork weighs 7lbs - fine. Average Joe weighs 160lbs - 190lbs and most of his weight is behind bikes center of gravity. Which physical entity do you think plays the major part in front end going down?
Admittedly I might be delusional, but hear me out I have a home brewed theory:
I mentally draw a triangle between the points of contact with the bike (bar and pedals) and the front hub which is the part you're leveraging upward. Certain triangles are easier to tip back than others right? That's why bad geometry feels so crappy for drops and jumps: mechanical disadvantage. Another variable is relative weight on different points of the bike. The heavier the fork in comparison the more you would need to adjust the geometry to make up for it. Now I know rider weight is considerable, but long wheel base takes away at least some of that advantage, and regardless of weight it still effects overall performance and why would I want a bike that performs worse than the aluminum counterpart and costs more?
Gravity and light frames just won't mix until the components are light too.
If we take high speed drop off and you are in a neutral position and low on the take off then compensate in mid air with extending your arms and legs, then well you can have a super monster upfront and it is gonna be ok. If on low speed you are coming to a step down and you sort of "load the gun" by moving forward for a split second to give the front end an extra push - then you can add a gazzaloddi 3.0 to that super monster and it is still gonna be right. And this is how it is supposed to be done.
If you take a stiff rider with usual too far back position held all the time in all conditions, the he can have a 4lb Fox36float with DJ hardtails super short chainstay and sooner or later he is gonna bury his nose to the forest floor. In general with mechanical disadvantages with jumping I would blame badly setup underdamped/ oversagged long travel forks for most of "mechanicaly driven" carnages.
So it would be the fork to blame mostly, frame weight plays no role to me here. frame geo wmight be an issue if you run a bad size for how big/small you are.
Regarding the CATASTROPHICAL failure: I've seen few and it is called a Hollywood action movie.
As the airplaine companies started making the big jets put of carbon the price has rised.
But as the cf manufacturers adjust to the ever demanding market the price will come down and will be cheaper than ever in a fiew years i hope.
clean bike = bike that's just there for show
I like my bikes dirty
Peaty's race run in Lisbon urban DH I think.
well for me, i`ll stick to tradition.