Trek's Prototype DH Bike - Crankworx Whistler 2016

Aug 26, 2016 at 16:15
by Mike Levy  
The evolution of the Trek's downhill bike continues.

Trek's current Session downhill bike has been in their catalog since 2008, but it has been evolving and changing almost yearly since then. And yes, the Session name was used for Trek's big-travel, single-pivot downhill beast before that, as well as for their freeride bikes, but it's the machine that the Atherton's race aboard that most of us picture in our heads when we hear the Session moniker. And judging by the prototypes that the Athertons were seen riding during Crankworx, including a 29'' wheeled model, it doesn't look like Trek is planning on moving away from the basic design anytime soon.

It does appear as though they're continuing to fine-tune the Session's suspension, however, and quite possibly its geometry.

The shock-less bike pictured to the right is an aluminum prototype, and a closer look reveals that while it still employs Trek's ABP concentric axle pivot layout, it forgoes the Full Floater design that sees the lower shock mount situated on a short extension off the front of the bike's chainstays. This mirrors the 2017 Slash 29er that also nixes the Full Floater setup in order to, according to Trek, create the stiffest frame possible.
Trek s Prototype DH Bike - Crankworx Whistler 2016

The Athertons were likely testing this 27.5'' wheeled prototype back-to-back against the 29'' wheeled downhill bike that was also seen up at Whistler. Now that the Slash is rolling on 29'' wheels, would you be surprised to see the next generation Session go the same route?

Author Info:
mikelevy avatar

Member since Oct 18, 2005
2,032 articles

253 Comments
  • 345 5
 650b aint dead?
  • 2 3
 *with the
  • 85 2
 Looks like a Saison!
Wait.
It's Frida y= Beer O'clock!
  • 62 0
 They might want to put a little heavier coil on that shock
  • 16 0
 We've been played...
  • 4 4
 @gonecoastal: You win this thread!
  • 44 1
 @foshizz: VPP was a such a success, looks like trek is going for a virtual shock this year...
  • 27 71
flag ibishreddin (Aug 26, 2016 at 21:27) (Below Threshold)
 Cole pitchiccino won the pro race at big bear, ca on prototype session 29 over a year ago... Call me gay, I don't care, I'll be on a long travel 29er in the near future. Nothing gives more stability like a Lt 29er with good geometry.
  • 136 11
 @ibishreddin: what's your sexual preference got to do with the bike you want to ride?
  • 26 0
 @gonecoastal: looks like a Szechuan
  • 18 0
 @foshizz: new gen air shock!
  • 20 23
 @kit-nz: nothing. I really hope I didn't trigger anyone, we wouldn't want that now would we Wink . I was referring to the ifht vid how to be a mountain biker tup
  • 5 0
 That prototype looks like every other trek ever made. No surprises this year from those wilman designers at trek.
  • 31 0
 @foshizz: I've heard they run 100% sag on the shock
  • 2 2
 @fecalmaster: I have one and I see some differences
  • 8 2
 I'm sorry to hear that.
  • 11 0
 Great... Now the black market is going to be flooded with the 650b. Maybe I'll finally try one. All this wheel size stuff is about as killer as a wheelie on a unicycle.
  • 4 6
 @fecalmaster: jealous much?
  • 4 0
 @Pedro019: Geez... busted. Thanks for call'n me out on that. I guess all this wheel size stuff IS cooler than I thought! I'll Look into it! Sorry if I offended anyone on a unicycle.
  • 1 0
 Not yet, if only someone would go and get the gun...
  • 1 0
 @powderturns: as someone who works at a shop that sells Trek... I'm no.lobger ever going to call it a session. Thank you Smile
  • 20 0
 Then two years from now they recognize Boost is too narrow for aggressive wagon wheel hucking and we need Boost Super Ultra Plus Augmented Hubs (Boost SUPAH).
  • 6 0
 Looks like and Ellsworth.
  • 5 1
 Most uninspiring spy shot ever?
  • 5 0
 @rockin-itis: as inspiring as a spy shot of a dead cat.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: Boost 150
  • 1 0
 @mattradical: That will suffice for Leogang. Val di Sole requires the introduction of Boost 152.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: DO NOT GIVE THEM IDEAS
  • 1 0
 @Mattin: My cat died last saturday.
  • 2 1
 Ok . I tried. I was trying to go a MONTH without posting . But holy hell..no one said it.... LOOKS LIKE AN AURUM
  • 77 3
 Move along. Not much to see here.
  • 11 30
flag saint4life (Aug 26, 2016 at 19:06) (Below Threshold)
 Right? GT Fury designs have been far progressive than the stale Session - yawn...
  • 45 7
 Trek might change the whole game here with a 29er dh bike. There's a lot to see here.
  • 11 1
 @saint4life: right over your head
  • 9 7
 @mnorris122: Gee might Win a wc on one
  • 72 2
 Looking like a Session since 2008.
  • 14 9
 the IRONy is that the session looked like a Sunday!

autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tech/probikes/sabrina_jonnier_iron_horse07/IMG_0441.jpg

the maiden takes some styling cues from it as well.
  • 8 0
 @makripper: And here I am still racing an Iron Donkey. Some machine!
  • 2 0
 @sicmoto: one of the best bikes ever. I beat my Sunday senseless and it loved it. Carry on then!
  • 11 10
 @makripper: the only question is whether Sunday looked like a Kona or like Ellsworth...
  • 9 3
 @makripper: what??? where on earth a session look like a sunday?
  • 7 17
flag taskmgr (Aug 27, 2016 at 9:26) (Below Threshold)
 @Pedro019: same design. Also they copied kona who copied ellsworth. Good think trek is a Walmart brand that no one cares about
  • 3 0
 So my understanding is its a Sunday Session. Sweet. I'll be at the pub drinking on this fine Sunday afternoon.
  • 3 3
 @makripper: and in faaact Obama founded ISIS
  • 3 2
 @WAKIdesigns: him and Hillary did. It's common knowledge. They wanted cheap labor
  • 64 3
 I hope they keep a Park Model with 26" wheels.
  • 12 2
 One can dream, but I believe those models were almost immediately discontinued after the first production year..
  • 28 3
 Crazy when so many sponsored (free) riders from a lot of brands are still rocking custom 26 bikes......
  • 18 2
 @nojzilla: I still on a 26" and I love it, I decided to wait a few years to see where this goes, 27.5 27.5+ 29
  • 9 1
 @Hitlersbitch666: as long as semenuk rides on Trek they will
  • 30 4
 @Pedro019: I just rode a few of the new 9ers and as usual I wasn't overly impressed. They still feel big and slow and playful they are not. I tolerate my 27.5 but it's not as fun as my 26. As far as speed. The clock says I'm faster when I'm having more fun. I think it's about time some of the smaller builders start making 26" bikes for those of us who just don't find any real benifit from putting bigger wheels on our bikes. Still haven't ridden a 9er I would buy and I'm not the only one. Nothing like demoing a bunch of really expensive new bikes and going home not wanting any of them. That never used to happen.
  • 12 4
 @Bikethrasher: totally agreed.. "The clock says I'm faster when I'm having more fun"
  • 4 5
 @RedBurn: so they should give him a lifetime contract...
  • 7 6
 @Bikethrasher: you're riding the wrong bikes maybe. Take an enduro or evil 29er for a rip, nothing compares to them.
There is a big difference in the 29er market.
  • 6 1
 @d-man: Enduro 29er changed my mind about 29ers. I can do almost eveything with my Enduro.Im a big 29er fan... and im only 1,72m tall.... at Some local DH races i prefer my 29er istead of my 26`` carbon v10.
  • 6 1
 @d-man: I rode the Ibis Ripley the Trek Remedy, Spec Enduro and Stumpy
Which one is wrong? Sorry 9ers aren't for everybody. I'd say if your tall, heavy, or produce lots of power they might work. But I'm none of those so maybe that's why they don't work for me.
  • 2 1
 @d-man: The 9ers are much better than any of the Plus bikes I rode. The best bikes I rode were the Trek Slash and the Intense Spider 27.5 Carbon.
  • 54 1
 I think I threw up one time near that garage. In the plants.
  • 41 6
 Sooks like a Lession
  • 4 20
flag Pedro019 (Aug 27, 2016 at 1:22) (Below Threshold)
 u tuck like srash
  • 2 2
 @Pedro019: we found our daily hater
  • 1 2
 I updated just for username
  • 1 2
 Ugh *upvoted
  • 33 8
 I really like my new modern 29er. Running a 2.5 Minion, I can run over anything and the geometry let's me ride it hard. Totally an eye opener compared to the 1st Gen 29er's. I think the people that hate 29er's have never ridden a new one. They are amazing. And I hated the 2 29er's I rode 10 years ago... like "Well buying this would be a waste of money" kinda hate.
  • 9 3
 I second that. I'm running a Minion 2.5x29 on a new Remedy. Gobs of useful traction. No discernible downside.
  • 2 1
 Minions 2.5 or Magic Mary 2.35? I am really in a dilemma.
  • 2 1
 @sngltrkmnd: which year an model remedy I've got the 9.8 2016 and really wanna go wider
  • 3 3
 The Trek Remedy I rode. Was named Bike of the year by many mags and sites including this one. It's a nice bike. All the 9ers I rode where nice. My friend who is on a beat to shit Mojo SLR. Rode the new Ripely and HD3 and was also underwhelmed with both. All five of us rode at least one plus bike as well. All agreed they would be great on groomed snow but none of us would want one as our everyday bike. My point is 9ers and now Plus bikes aren't for everyone as the Bike Industry and many 9er owners insists they are.
  • 3 8
flag PLMedia (Aug 27, 2016 at 21:59) (Below Threshold)
 29ers are bad and they're not fun or fast. Plus bikes are the bees knees
  • 2 0
 @gpgalanis: magic mary all day.
  • 1 0
 @Balshore78: I agree. I have a Magic Mary as a front tire and a DHR2 as a rear but once it is worn out I will replace it for a Hans Dampf. So MM & HD.
  • 1 0
 @Bikethrasher: I fully agree miners aren't for everyone and was frankly in such disbelief that I liked the 29" remedy better than the 27.5 that I waited a full year to make it to another demo to try them with the same specs. Ended up still liking the 29" better. Still can't really believe it
  • 1 0
 I'm with oldschool43. I had a full suspension 29er, 2010 model. It held me back because of the wonky geo, the weak fork, and the crappy tire compounds. I got rid of it about a year later and went to a 27.5. Now they finally have everything dialed on 29ers. I'm just about ready to go back, I just don't have the fundage yet. Smile
  • 1 0
 @allenfstar: Same bike in XL size. I was skeptical that the stock Spline wheels would support the 2.5's but so far no problems at all. I ride fairly steep terrain in the PNW for what it's worth.
  • 31 6
 I can't wait for the wheel trend to go full circle and we go back to using 24" rear wheels!
  • 9 1
 My 24s never went away.
  • 5 1
 I keep adding bikes to my fleet , but still love riding that old azonic eliminator for sheer fun.
  • 2 1
 Didn't you hear? XC guys are already racing 36 inch wheels...
www.focus-bikes.com/uploads/tx_dcwnews/BIG_BIRD_FOCUS_Flo_Vogel1.jpg
  • 5 0
 36ers... 24" rear wheels... wait a minute this has been done already hasn't it?
s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/lot-images.atgmedia.com/SR/34808/2904645/551-201432011335_540x360.jpg

sounds like a proper setup for DH, doesn't even need a chain!!
66.media.tumblr.com/b9b7eda5ce2fa13d445bf1eb47f021c4/tumblr_o9us0uQkRA1utfg94o1_500.jpg
  • 29 7
 A 29 DH bike makes sense. 29ers excel at stability and straight-line descending- And downhill courses require stability, and mostly straight-line descents with banked turns. 29ers keep their momentum really well and also don't catch a lot of air. DHers are always trying to scrub jumps to be more efficient and don't like to pedal in order to keep up their rhythm etc etc. In theory, a 29er DH bike should work unless its a super twisty track with precise lines- But looking at the way the UCI tracks are being bike-parkified, those tracks won't be seen a lot.
  • 6 7
 Don't catch a lot of air?!?! Ah ok, my e29 goes damn big and wants to land flat pass the landing! My other size wheels didn't have that problem Smile
  • 9 9
 How would a 29" not be good for a twisty track if the wheelbase is the same as a 650b....?
  • 14 5
 @jclnv: it's not the same. My lines need to be wider in order to go faster. It's a little more awkward in tight situations and a little harder to snap out of and change directions quickly. Bigger wheels create a Giro affect that seems to create more effort needed in these quick tight direction changes.
  • 13 5
 @Rider656: Gyroscopic procession was proved inconsequential to bicycle stability in the 50's.

The factors that could cause slower direction changes are BB drop and Trail. The latter can be negated with more fork offset and if the frame has a similar drop to a 650b bike then they'll be little difference there. However, it's pointless having such a high BB as most of the increase in stability is lost.

In summary; an equivalent 650b bike will be just as resistant to turn as a 29" if it has something like a 310mm BB height. Just don't try and pedal it. Here is also the reason why a 29" will always have a stability advantage over 650b. Extra BB drop.
  • 6 0
 @jclnv: Tetrahedron bike prototype has all of that. ALL OF IT, plus some. It is even 650b rated at the same time (Holds 650 BBQ Briquettes). The newest one is called the LEP (Landscaping Equipment Prototype)
  • 6 3
 @jclnv: gyros aka wheels. The rotational weight increase, along with the extra distance to the axle, makes the gyroscopic force much higher, and harder for you to make the wheel deviate from its path. If it's twisty enough, this force isn't too high, as you're traveling slowly. But over 25 mph its quite noticeable how 29ers try to stand you up in corners and lean over late. Two different ways to high side corners.
  • 5 1
 @jclnv: stabilty maybe, in a straight path. What about leaning over into a corner full of baby head rocks...or a 35mph berm...i found it hard to hit my lines as accurately at speed on the big wheels.
  • 12 0
 @jclnv: There is this thing called mass moment of inertia....bigger wheels take more energy to accelerate and decelerate.
  • 3 1
 @takeiteasyridehard: They're just not as nimble. In the same way a 650b isn't as predictable when both wheels start sliding because your slightly more on the bike than in it.
  • 3 0
 @vroomvroompartystarter: Yeah I love the Tetrahedron range this year. Stunning use of foil eggs to offset the plunge shaft. I haven't seen the LEP yet but I hear they'll be one at the undergraduate farmers coming-out dance. Can't wait to see the cracker wheels.
  • 6 2
 @jclnv: let's say there's a 8x4 ply on the floor an I want you to flip it over as easy as possible.
Would do that the 8ft side or the 4ft side?

Plus gyroscopic effect
  • 3 6
 @nojzilla: the 8ft side, radius from rotation axis is shorter...but as he was saying, the effect from gyroscopic procession is almost negligible for bicycles. Yes, a 29er would have more angular momentum than a 26er rotating at same speed, but I doubt a rider would be able to feel the effect of this. At least I don't notice.
  • 9 8
 still rolling on a 26" and loving it....
  • 3 1
 I think that it is just a matter of time since 29ers have gone a long way. Personally I hated the first generation of 29ers but since I got my Enduro 29 I don't think that I can go back to smaller wheels especially when the latest generation of 29ers includes bikes like the Slash 29.
  • 7 0
 @jclnv: increased rotational inertia of larger heavier wheels will require more rider input (work) to initiate changes in direction compared to an otherwise identical smaller wheel bike.

Part of the touted stability of a 29er is a result of the increased rotational inertial of larger, heavier wheels.

Increased stability does come at a price...more effort to change direction, more effort to bring up to speed. Other design considerations can offset the differences, but not eliminate them.

Smaller wheeled bikes turn faster with less effort and accelerate quicker, but these advantages also come at a price. Smaller wheeled bikes don't carry straight line speed as well, offer less traction, etc...

There are reasons mountain bikes don't come with 20 inch wheels. There are also reasons they don't come with 36 inch wheels.
  • 5 5
 @mountaincross: Do some research on the effect of gyroscopic precession in bicycles. It's interesting stuff and ultimately proves that a larger wheel at cycling velocities has little gyroscopic effect. Even if they did the difference between a 650b and 29" would be minuscule.
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: I can't wait to unveil it. It may look like a Home Depot Special, but it's not.
  • 3 6
 @jclnv: I'll take real life experience over research anyday
  • 7 1
 @nojzilla: Yeah f*ck science LOL!

If you read my previous posts you'll find the answers to your comments.
  • 4 1
 I don't have experience with 27.5" or 29", I can only compare 20" to 26" (for what it's worth as the rims are very different). And I can go into the theory. There are two kinds of gyroscopic effects.

One is that a spinning gyro in space tends to maintain it's orientation. People with that effect in mind will expect the bike with a larger wheel to maintain its orientation (and trajectory) more easily. And it will be harder to turn if you try to turn the bike by rotating the handlebar and fork around the headtube axis.

The other effect is precession. Compare this with the funny way an angle grinder behaves when you move it around. Or a toll spinning and tilting in circles. If you tilt the handlebar to the left (so push the left grip towards the ground), the front wheel will want to point to the left. And as you tilt the rest of the bike as well, thef whole bike will point in the intended direction but the front wheel will lead as the front end can rotate in the headtube. This way of steering works better the faster you go and the larger the mass moment of inertia of the wheels (proportional to mass and diameter). You'll also use this effect when you want to twist of orient your bike when in the air. I don't know if anyone ever dared to try but it really won't work when you lock your wheels in the air so that they don't spin.

In fact, this precession tends to push a bike back upright if you apply the technique of turning the handlebar around the headtube axis. This is clearly not what you want and will indeed give you the feeling that the bike doesn't want to turn at higher speeds.

So whether it is quicker to steer a small/light wheeled bike or a big/heavy wheeled bike depends on your technique and speed. And yes, the small increase in size does matter as mathematically the diameter goes to a higher power in the equation so that adds up quickly.

Does this mean that I think bigger wheels are better for going around corners? No, I'm not that fashionable. I run heavy 26" wheels, tubes and tyres. They're well over modern 29er weight (probably) but at the same speed, a 26" wheel has to spin faster. So I'm getting this effect on the cheap Smile .
  • 3 1
 @mountaincross: I totally second that. In some ways made me a better rider once is harder to go very deep into the turn and expect to reacelerate very quick on the exit.. Now i think I draw better lines and can maintain more speed on the middle section of the turns... made me a smoother rider. I thinks is just a matter of time and bike evolution for the 29er to invade the DH market.
  • 1 0
 @jclnv: OK, do you have a peer reviewed article you recommend?
  • 2 3
 @jclnv: it's very simple, take two front wheels of the same build, same rim , tyre an whatever tube or tubeless you run. One 29 an one 26. Spin em an hold em in your hands by the axle. Then tell me you can't tell wich one takes less effort to move around............

I owned a 29er for aboot 9months an went back to 26 because the 9er didn't handle as well through tight fast single track, trails with lots of fast direction changes. I didn't feel any extra grip, at at all
There was better roll over speed an my average speed on a 20-30 mile ride was about 1-2mph faster
But, the bigger wheels where just to much hard work an no FUN. faster on fire roads but, that's boring as f*ck.

Having way more FUN back on 26 with fat (but, not plus size) tyres

So yeah f*ck your science, I'm ripping trails not building rocket ships

I'm also bemused as to why you'd think it's easier to flip the ply length ways rather than width??????
  • 4 0
 @jclnv: By the way, in my comments I made no direct mention of gyroscopic precession. Rotational inertial is a broader concept. The main drawback being the additional rider input (work) needed to accelerate the wheels back up to speed, particularly when pedaling is needed to do the work (as opposed to gravity providing the acceleration). Also, in tight, twisty, rooty, rocky terrain (especially if any pedaling is required) there are many more rider inputs needed (body english) involved in keeping the bike upright and moving forward, all of which will require more work on a heavier bike. And with these movements, the gyroscopic effect may work against you, by the way...

A big ultra fit athlete like Gee may be able to tolerate the extra work and ride faster in most terrain on a heavy 29in DH bike. But, for smaller riders the drawbacks associated with extra rotational inertia become more significant.

I don't know where downhill is headed, but for Enduro racing, I would expect 27.5 in wheels will still be the choice for many medium to small riders, especially on tight, twisty tracks.
  • 3 1
 @nojzilla: Sorry to say but you just engaged yourself in some scientific experiment to the extend that I even wouldn't bother with. That is, try to find 26" and 29" versions of the same components to build wheels out of, just for the experiment. But now that you're at it, hopefully you'll notice that if you bank the (forward spinning) wheel to the left, it will try orient to the left as well. It doesn't really take much effort to do that, as you've got a lot of force (your bodyweight) available to bank the bike. It goes all wrong when you try to steer the bike by turning the handlebar and that might be what you're referring to. The wheel (and bike along with that) will try to bank into the wrong direction. This isn't much of a problem when you're in the air (imagine Wade Simmons hucking down a drop signature style) but when riding through a turn you'll try to fight it. And as a consequence the wheel won't steer in the intended direction either. So basically if you learn to work with these gyroscopic effects instead of against them, they won't really cause you trouble. And as such the larger/heavier wheels (with their bigger inertia) won't be too bad to work with.

Also, keep in mind that there is more to gyroscopic precession than just inertia. The angular velocity of the wheel matters as well and for the bikes traveling at the same speed, the angular velocity of the big wheeled bike's wheels are smaller.
  • 2 0
 @vinay: yeah rhoit! That's you see loads of dirt jumpers on 29ers..........

(sarcasm btw )
  • 2 1
 @nojzilla: Why would anyone go dirt jumping on a 29er? The only advantage I ever heard anyone claim they have is that they roll easier over obstacles. The flip side is as Fabien Barel mentioned, smaller wheels are better for pumping as they follow the terrain better. Dirts are usually built so smooth that even a 20" BMX rolls well there so there is no point running big wheels. But that's not the context here, it was more the other way around. I was commenting on the sentiment that the increased gyroscopic effect due to the larger wheel is merely a disadvantage. My point is that if you apply the appropriate technique, it really isn't that bad. You can (and probably do) use it to your advantage. If we pull a manual or wheelie and want to turn left, don't we all steer to the right? Steering to the right causes the bike to bank to the left, causing the bike to turn to the left. Unless you lock the front brake of course, then it doesn't matter how you steer the front wheel. You might be able to steer the front wheel to the left and then actually turn left, but you're going to need a considerable weight shift for that to work and it isn't as stable. I've never ridden these bigger wheels (27.5" and over) but my wheels aren't particularly light either so the same stuff of the increased gyroscopic effect applies.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: SARCASM.................



That's it. I'm out.......
  • 19 6
 29 will be bashed in the realm of DH....until very soon when it becomes the better choice for the sport. Someone just had to get it started.... Within the year, 29 will be the new DH standard because it makes sense with the stronger 29 wheels and boost available now. 29 was just waiting... to piss off every pinkbike anti 29er .
  • 6 2
 Boost dh standards now? What's the industry coming to?
  • 1 1
 So true. 29er-hater heads will explode
  • 19 3
 650B got robbed!
  • 8 5
 26" got robbed by all of these: 27.5/27.5+/29.... just saying
  • 8 2
 @Pedro019: but 26" robbed the 24" rear wheel, so the 24" is the real victim here guys. 1 upvote = 1 f*ck not given
  • 16 2
 LOOKS LIKE A SESSION LOOKS LIKE A SESSION LOOKS LIKE A SESSION you guys are so annoying...
  • 9 9
 Why are we shouting?! STOPPED READING AFTER "NO 26 OPTION"!!! THE WORLD IS MINE, THE WORLD IS MINE!!!
  • 9 6
 @WAKIdesigns: I still on my 26" and loving it...and love improving it with cheaper new parts Wink
  • 1 6
flag Pedro019 (Aug 27, 2016 at 1:29) (Below Threshold)
 it's even most annoying when u go ride and everyone says that... I just don't give an answer anymore, I don't hear it anymore...
  • 11 5
 @Pedro019 - I truly pity only the one who gets deeply annoyed by wheel-size stalk. Guys talk, they just talk. I don't know what's worse? A dude insecure about his wheel size, who has nothing better to talk about, or a dude who considers himself as someone above the wheelsize debate, and when asked about his 26" or 29" wheels, he behaves as if he was asked for permission for sex with his daughter Big Grin Our quality of life doesn't depend on the first reaction to a trigger, the first firing up of neurons in our brain, but what we do with it afterwards. It's ok to get pissed off by a stupid question, but to carry it within is just plain fkng dumb. I know there are people who have 26" wheels because they don't give a damn, there are ones who feel fulfilled by keeping them to oppose the movement, then there are ones who'd like a new bike but don't have money for a complete one, and sht on others to compensate. Then there is some stupid nazi somewhere in my block of flats for sure, a manhattan sized asteroid flying by and I don't need to care about it either. If a tree fell in the the woods and nobody has seen it...
  • 2 0
 @WAKIdesigns: don't worry, he commented on literally every comment on this page! It's pretty amazing!
  • 17 4
 Still loving my 26" DH sled; I have NO reason in parting.
  • 6 3
 I can think of 27.5 reasons why ( I can't it just sounded good in my head
  • 4 6
 same here....
  • 8 0
 Straight from trek's website... "Many riders have experienced the jolt that comes with bottoming out on single-pivot suspension, and the feeling of frustration as the shock moves through its mid-stroke too quickly. Mounting the shock in Full Floater allows it to be fine-tuned to perform more effectively throughout its range of travel. This setup simultaneously offers a more versatile and predictable full suspension experience."


So either rear suspension has gotten that much better to eliminate this mid travel "issue" oooor the actual gain from full floater was very minimal to start with and more just marketing....
  • 2 3
 It was just marketing. Their claim was that Full Floater allowed a more progressive leverage curve but plenty of linkage driven single-pivots have more progression than those Treks despite 'only' acting on the shock from the seatstay rocker.
  • 9 2
 first year with Athertons and they're making minute changes. Not surprising at all. A couple other companies are also experimenting with 29er dh bikes. If Athertons decide they like it, I suspect Trek will offer both wheel sizes in near future.
  • 12 1
 I like my 26" Session Park and I just came from Whistler too. =)
  • 8 5
 26" for life
  • 9 2
 29" makes sense with the current trend in geometry. if you are gonna have super long wheel bases for going as fast as possible even if a little harder to get through twisty bits then you might as well go for the wheel size that does the same. 650b was just a stepping stone for this.
  • 7 2
 Been saying for a while 29 dh bikes will change the game. Here it comes! Good on Trek for making the first move. There Was a guy at the world masters at sun peaks 2006 from the usa, making his own carbon frame 29 dh bike. BDC bikes I think.
  • 2 0
 Was that the guy who was cutting off the lower part of the bridge on his Fox 40s?
  • 4 0
 @SintraFreeride: KHS tried a 29er with their race team a couple of years ago.. Never heard how that worked out.
  • 1 1
 Intense did it first.
  • 1 1
 @iamamodel: nah that was some hack. they used modded dorados. even in 2013 when intense brought out a 951 mod to make it 29, they use dorado.
  • 7 0
 2 New Pro Model Session ATHERTON
29" wheels for Gee to boost his competitiveness and
20" wheels for Rachel to get her some challenges in the world cup.
  • 4 0
 Send rachel down on a 16" bmx
  • 8 2
 I give up. Will a $10,00000000 29' boost, carbon, semi/full floater make me faster- NO because it won't make my balls bigger! I'm sticking to my 2012 26' V3 & spending the £££ on holidays and riding lessons.
  • 3 5
 Its not bigger balls, its the efficiency of the bigger wheels. They roll faster, roll over roots and rocks better and there is more rubber on the ground when cornering which means more traction. Go ride an enduro 29.
  • 17 9
 29er 4 Life
  • 11 7
 26" FOR LIFE!!!!!!
  • 6 2
 27.5 FOUR LOOF
  • 2 0
 !!!!!
  • 10 0
 @Jack-McLovin:
Round wheels for the win.
  • 4 2
 Take half of the top 8 brands on the WC DH circuit and make their riders do 1 full year on DH specific 29ers and the other half (4) of the top brands ride 27.5 rigs and the end results wouldnt be any diferent to what each individual is capable of. Although there are clear advantages and disadvantages to each, any of the two wheelsizes can excel in Enduro and DH, it's not the arrow, it's the indian....
  • 5 3
 Can't see them committing to a 29" DH after throwing all their eggs in the 27.5 [Read: 650B] basket. Unless they are actually trying to alienate their customers for the sake of a few more race wins.

Of course if they build a bike that dominates the competition, then they'd actually gain customers from it so...
  • 20 1
 Or they can bring back Gwin and keep the same bike. They'd still be winning I bet.
  • 14 0
 @hollowing2000: I was going to point out that it is usually a pro rider's skill and popularity that really sells bikes but I didn't want the hassle of people disagreeing haha

Gwin seems to win on any bike he's offered.
  • 3 0
 They've been experimenting with a 29" Session since 2010. They also had a 29" Session prototype riding around during Crankworx. I have pics from that year of it. Rad bike, never made it anywhere though.
  • 1 4
 I would like to see those pics..
  • 6 0
 Hopefully they won't fit on any uplift trailers
  • 2 0
 I don't understand why they felt the need to make the new remedy have a straight down tube with knock block but if this is supposedly the stiffest frame and has a tripple crown fork where knock block is not necessary then why don't they have a straight down tube??
  • 1 0
 I'm guessing new session will run same straight tube/knock block setup
  • 2 0
 I foresee pants manufacturers with whole new ranges of 29er DH pants - reinforced backsides for those off the back butt/tyre rub sessions.

I hope they do this - if 29ers are so fast it will be interesting to see how much faster Rachel is and whether Gee makes the podium again.

My bets on not much change in the status quo even if they do...
  • 2 0
 Uh, I thought Lenz Sport was one of the first companies to make a DH 29er? I know i got to ride one at Winter Park about 5 summers ago. It was super fast and super stable, but set up pretty weird. Narrow bars, tires pumped up like road tires (I can understand that, there weren't any DH tires for 29ers that long ago), and a rear brake that didn't work. I liked how stable the bike was, but I'd hate to decide whether or not i liked it since it was a pretty wonky setup.
  • 1 0
 Non-wheel size comment and question here:

If dropping the "full floater" in their suspension design was all in the name of frame stiffness for the new Slash 29er and now these DH prototypes, why didn't Trek do the same with the new remedy and fuel ex bikes?? They went through the trouble of creating the knock-block keyed headset to key the fork from hitting the new straight down tube in the name of stiffness. So, why not drop the full floater on the Remedy and Fuel Ex? Is it that only the most elite riders will notice the difference in stiffness when it comes to a Trek with full floater vs a non- full floater Trek (all other things being equal)? Is it that modern suspension and damper designs just don't need the claimed benefit of the full floater anymore?
  • 3 0
 If I remember and understand correctly, I believe trek ditched the full floater on the new slash so they could build a 15in frame and use the same shock e2e and stroke on all the frames and utilize the benefit of a DH shocks extra air volume as opposed to a trail bike shock which would be less volume and a shorter overall length. And I do believe that someone mentioned that shock tuning is so good now that the full floater is pretty much irrelevant which is why they ditched the design on the new slash. I have no idea as to why the session is moving toward the non-full floater design though. Here is my speculation:

Trek has been using "metric" shocks for years now (try converting their funky inch measurements into milimeters. It seems like a sound theory to me and lines up close with current metric spacing options) and because of this, the engineers can revise linkages and use a shock specific to their new and improved design (the whole point of metric shocks). Now that they have a better linkage, they have made the full floater irrelevant and inferior to the new design therefore antiquating it.

I think the use of a smaller shock on the remedy and fuel ex is why trek is still using a full floater on those bikes; they can still fit the same shock and a full floater on a small frame.
  • 3 1
 The reason to go full floater was to take the stress off the frame, as the shock no longer pushes against the frame, so full floater still makes sense where a lightweight frame is the goal, re-attaching the mount to the frame may be stiffer, but also means they have to strengthen the frame which makes it heavier, not a real issue on a dh bike thought
  • 1 0
 @ctd07: That makes sense
  • 1 0
 I still ride my 2010 session and it's awesome. Never had andy thoughts on changing just because it still keeps up with any other modern dh machine (26 and AL yes)

Just the perfect bikepark machine.
  • 5 1
 Holy f bike industry just go 29er already.
  • 3 0
 Are they trying to bring Rachel down to earth on those wagon wheels or trying to get gee to speed up again?
  • 1 0
 Ditching full floater in the name of increased frame stiffness? Sorry, I'm calling BS on that. It has a hell of a lot more to do with desired suspension characteristics but they can't say that can they...
  • 4 1
 ABP is dead... Four bar, four bar!
  • 3 5
 ABP what?? LOOOL
  • 1 2
 @ibishreddin: Okay, so you're gay, thanks for choosing PB comments section for opening up, kudos on that, glad you're out of the closet now. But if you want to review a wheel size, you can do it without shouting your sexual preferences... Dammit, no wonder 29'ers have got such a tough time these years.
  • 2 0
 I thought this was a joke until I seen Moseleys Trek Slash. Bike industry is making bank on all these wheel sizes..
  • 1 0
 My guess is Trek did away with the full floater only because of the lack of 29er stiffness but will keep the full floater for the rest of the stead. Racers and companies are always looking for an edge so bigger faster bike is what is the progression. I'm glad I haven't bought anything yet standards are changing fast and I'm in the mindset its the rider not the bike.
  • 1 0
 Fuck making fancy prototypes, just add a new chainstay design, might not increase sales but it will decrease warranty claims lmao
  • 3 0
 the 2008 Session 10... now that was a bike!
  • 2 0
 Magnetic levitation suspension, sweet. This is what the bike looks like when the power is turned off.
  • 1 1
 Not exactly groundbreaking news, Trek has been looking at a 29er DH bike since 2011. Bring on the 29er Session
www.pinkbike.com/news/trek-tour-29er-proto-2011.html
  • 2 0
 This article broke the comments section.
  • 3 2
 The Athertons didnt and have never tested a 29er session. End of discussion
  • 3 0
 Alright mate...
  • 3 0
 Uh. I think it's broken
  • 4 1
 Its going to happen .
  • 2 7
flag Pedro019 (Aug 27, 2016 at 1:36) (Below Threshold)
 I just want to see the faces who told me, oh you still on a 26"... I'm already on a 27.5
when this happens I want to see what they gonna say..
  • 2 1
 Full floater seems good idea but plagued by chainstay failure, but I think just make them stronger.
  • 1 0
 This 29ef prototype was exposed on MountainBike action few month ago. Used by some young rider.
  • 4 1
 Looks like a Maiden
  • 2 0
 Looks like a slash with double crowns.
  • 3 1
 Looks like an Ellsworth !
  • 2 2
 Looks like they have gone to a similar design to the @RockyMountainBicycles maiden shock mount, does this mean now it looks like a maiden!
  • 5 3
 The day DH goes full 29 is the day I stop watching ...
  • 3 1
 See ya later
  • 1 0
 You liar haha
  • 2 7
flag gogigogoasa (Aug 27, 2016 at 11:54) (Below Threshold)
 downhill will never go on 29! 650b is the best wheel size,29er is gay!!!
  • 1 0
 I say pick the right tool for the job. For the top level cats a fleet of options will help them get that "W".
  • 1 0
 ...But 29rs don't handle and aren't any fun... Wait... a 29r can also be a 650b+...
  • 1 1
 It looks like somebody's old session sprayed with grey primer, but I do see the difference in terms of how the shock is mounted.
  • 2 0
 i dare you to make 29 DH bikes, i just dare you
  • 2 1
 It's on 29" for next year!
  • 5 8
 i literally don't care at all - rachel is the only atherton i care about so as long as her bike works in even the slightest positive way I'm happy - lord bummer should go 29 so i have yet another reason to dislike him - dan just builds jumps so whatever - more jumps = good
  • 3 2
 Haha Lord Bummer. I hate that gee's competitive nature gets him a bad rep. Give the guy a break.
  • 5 3
 You think his competitive nature is why I dislike him? When I met him while he was shuttling in SC he was an enormous a-hole to me and everybody at the trails. Rachel was super nice, Dan was super nice - he is literally the only pro ive ever met that acted like that toward a group of kids. Guy bums me out and I hope he perennially finishes 4th or worse in everything he does
  • 1 0
 @chup29: wow I really did not know. I have never ridden with any pros, but I imagine that like the rest of society have a wide range of personalities. I for one in my old age am just trying to enjoy as much MTB riding as I can, on this newly " outdated" " most fun ever bike" that I built while I had downtime recovering from surgery. Cheers happy trail s
  • 2 1
 Bet it still rides like a Trek...
  • 1 0
 can't believe it, the next generation of session is without rearshock ?!
  • 1 0
 Damn that thing is slack as fuck
  • 1 0
 They are going to have to bring in the Boost 120 for that bad boy
  • 2 2
 Niners are fast. I'm a fan of them and would definitely look hard at a 29-er Session....
  • 2 0
 thats a low bb! Wink
  • 3 2
 looks like it's time to start riding Demos again ????????????
  • 3 2
 Massive hate wave coming in 3, 2, 1.... Oh wait its already there
  • 2 0
 Looks like a Kona now.
  • 1 0
 looks like it's not a 650b+ dh bike with 200mm
  • 2 0
 20" Hessian
  • 2 0
 Run what you brung.
  • 1 0
 No "Full Floater"? Then it looks like a Split Pivot...
  • 1 0
 So how were they running fox 40s on a 29 wheel?
  • 6 7
 The "Stiffest" frame possible. f*ck you...The Full Floaters what makes the Trek a Trek? In the name of being cheep.
  • 5 4
 what the hell is wrong with you?
  • 2 1
 So what's actually the benefit of a full floater? Technically, the added part to make it a full-floater adds to un-spring weight and would make the suspension slower and less responsive. Was it done to achieve leverage ratios and shock rate curves? If so, maybe it's no longer applicable with newer shock technology with tokens and such.
  • 1 4
 @cwatt: Do some search about full floater and ABP before you criticize... and at the end of the day, it'll be pesonal preferences that counts... I like one system that you may hate, and I may hate one you don't.. what matters? that we all like what we ride and just have fun riding and not criticizing
  • 1 2
 @Pedro019: full floater and abp suck. It doesn't work. It's just a theory yet to be proven
  • 2 0
 @makripper: years of champs using the system says it's not that bad
  • 1 0
 @enduroFactory: but they were using a fake one.
  • 1 0
 @makripper: ahahahah fake one.....u r a fake!!!
  • 1 1
 @Pedro019: trek is a walmart brand worse than mongoose. saw one at aldi yesterday
  • 1 0
 @makripper: loooool...keep going
  • 10 9
 26" is king. That is all
  • 10 5
 The king is dead.
  • 5 7
 @handynzl: your looking to the wrong kingdom
  • 9 3
 29 DH rigs are the future...... For riders that think it's the bike that makes them a better rider.......
  • 1 0
 FOR LIFE
  • 1 0
 29 est le nouveau 27.5.
  • 1 0
 Ew
  • 2 2
 must be getting quite around here
  • 1 1
 Would it be a Session with multi wheel flip chip and dropout?
  • 2 1
 I'd ride it.
  • 2 1
 29er DH bike? Uh-oh
  • 1 0
 why no full floater?
  • 11 11
 29ers are gay!
  • 5 4
 So is your dad!
  • 1 5
flag Pedro019 (Aug 27, 2016 at 1:39) (Below Threshold)
 u what?
  • 1 1
 Looks like a session
  • 8 9
 Really not stoked, trek sucks
  • 3 5
 Loooool HATER ALERT!!!!!
  • 3 4
 Hey trek, Way to shut down rays Milwaukee, you can afford it because you'll probably charge even more money for this new bike, and people will buy it. Way to pay back to your home state of Wisconsin
  • 2 5
 They can sell you something with all the crazy big words used to describe this bike but it's still a 29r...26 for life
  • 3 5
 Holy shit,29er is gay! 650B forever 3 !!
Below threshold threads are hidden







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.046650
Mobile Version of Website