Video: Stephen Matthews - 29er Shred On The North Shore

 thats what I was thinking, the bike just looked sluggish even though the rider was obviously trying to make it handle quickly it looked unresponsive to his input

 M9er - yes I agree. The clock will tell you that 29er is faster (thx to Dirt Mag ekhem... ekhem, kheeee) but not your senses. Anyone promoting the idea that 29ers can be ridden the same way as 26ers - message me 5 years from now. In the message, please state the nr of top bike movies of SINumbers caliber in which you have seen someone riding a 29er. As movies are about spectacular riding, the bike stuck to the ground will have a bad time with getting thorugh the interviews to get the role...

Now, please remember vids of Voreis in Retallack, Ratboy on Blur TRc, and try to imagine how would those vids look if even the best of the breed like Stumpy 29evo and Tallboy LTc were involved. Got a picture?

 Looks like he's bored. Its fast but doesn't look like he's having anywhere near as much fun as he would on a well dialled 26".
This has been proven by many.. 29ers aren't the way for technical trails, so please stop trying to flog them off as if they are manufacturers!!!!!!!

 before it escalates: this vid is cool, nice filming, nice riding, great scenery - I really enjoyed watching it.

But in current "political climate" putting "riding a 29er" in the title is just asking for trouble, those comment boards would be way different without it - don't make the same mistake, just a tip. But off course if you decide not to play political games - I make my deepest kudos to you

 fair play to the rider for manuvouring that big old gate, didn't look that nice to flow, the pumping looked a little awkward. not for me, but then there are plenty of horses for courses

 You guys say he looked bored? He looked like he wasn't having fun? He looked sluggish? Couldn't pump? Did you watch the same footage as me? The only way to tell the difference is to film that rider on that trail on a 26er - the difference in style would be marginal at best.

The difference between 26" and 29" is bigger in your minds than in reality, just as it once was in mine after over twenty years on 26".

 Meh, the 29 looks slugish and harder to transfer lines.

 You're right it is in our minds.. I have way more Fun on two6!

 In such rooty terrain a 29'er is perfect. It means you can rise the trail with a lesser travel bike, and not get so hung up on roots. Before you decide 29'ers are [a number of ignorant things] why don't you just get out and try one?

 EllioMoose - it was the first time 4 weeks ago when I rode my 29er alongside my buddies (all on 26ers) and in our technical root and rock infsted terrain, it was clear that I am slightly faster than I would be on 26er, especially on uphills - BUT I couldn't jump and fool around as much as they did. Those bikes don't turn as fast and don't jump as well, I can only assume that to really use a 29er you need adequately bigger speeds and trails. On tight, XC stuff - they are faster, but feel slow thus less fun. The ride which took me 2,5h on a 26" HT in good shape, I finished in a 2h on 29" not in my best form - true. But I was not focusing on bike handling experience.

Some people like apples more than oranges.

 Watching this video is depressing. I live in the wonderful state of Wisconsin! We just got our 3rd big winter storm. I'm just wanting to ride the trails and get ready for races in may already....sigh

 My 2013 Stumpy Evo carbon 29 frame will be here today. Here's a video for all you doubters and haters (not of me). Enjoy!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mbYedxjoD4

 WAKI, I rode and back tested a tricked out Tallboy against an SB66, 575, Foxy, MojoHD and my own Nomad (stock and how I run it modified), same weekend, all but the Nomad on the same day.
The worst bike for climbing (most fails on technical climb) was the Stock Nomad followed by the Tallboy, both a country mile behind the others. The best for climbing was the modified Nomad.
As for descending all but the Foxy blew the tallboy away, the foxy was only slightly better. Judged on pedalling and carrying speed down possibly the UK's hardest trail centre black run.
I am a design engineer of nearly 20 years (scary thought), so tests tend to be relative and relevant to what I want out of a bike.

 no f*cks to give about the 26, 29 debate. I saw a dude shredding a bike and having fun.

 I'm curious how many of you would have actually noticed that he was on a 29er had it not been stated in the title.

 Don't need to see the title to know a 29er when I see one, not against them just not my gig.

 Can't understand why everyone is so threatened by 29ers - get over it.

 @ maxman: muskie's comment can answer that question for you.

 Little confused about your comment taletotell, as I wasn't asking a question. I was just commenting that 29er is an easily recognizable wheel size and not often confused with a 26, especially with people who know their bikes. As for Muskie's comment,I think there is some truth to this but I still don't think 26 is going anywhere soon, might faze out over time but there are two many of them out there for manufacturers to suddenly ignore the market. More likely three well sizes for the foreseeable future. That's why I just bought a mojo HD, gives me the choice if 650b starts to rule the world. With our riding group all are welcome regardless of wheel size, but if you come dressed in Lycra we will take the piss out of you.

 @ iamamodel I could not disagree more...I ride with a shop owner who has been riding 29ers for 5 years solid. We both ride 26" DH on the same course he usually beets me by 3 to 4 seconds every time. When we are both on 29ers he beets me by probably 10 to 20 seconds not quit out of site on our trails, but close to it! My only defense is I do not ride 29" bikes that often.
BUT when I am on my 26" SC Butcher and he is on his 29" SC TallBoy LT I am all over the brakes going into corners to keep from running over him. Out of the corners I have to take different lines as my bike seems to out accelerate his!(whether this is acceleration or just being able to carry more corner speed I do not know) but down the straights depending on the trail we are pretty even except when you have option lines were you can either hop and pump over roots and logs or rail around on outside berms I seem be able to make time. When I am in front I can get a decent 5 seconds or so on him most runs. He LOVES 29er's and praises how much fun he has on them but even he admits on DH style trails he is slower but still prefers the 29" bike I guess its personal preference.

 Sorry max. i meant noahcolorado's question

 @nissmo - my point was about the difference in how much FUN you can have.

And when it comes to time, sure my 26" Trance is faster than my 29" Anthem on a downish hill run, but there are mere seconds in it. My fastest downhill times were set while racing a Super D, and I haven't had a good crack at equalling those times on my Anthem 29er.

Most rides are done in a loop - the vast majority of riders don't have lifted access. A 29er will always be faster in a loop (both my XTC 29er and Anthem 29er SMASH my Trance 26er in a loop).

Everyone spends more time pedalling uphill than they do going downhill - the ratio could be 3:1 or 4:1 on out-and-backs, depending on the steepness of the trail. If Bike X takes one hour to do a certain climb, and then 15 minutes to descend, and Bike Y is, say, 5% faster up a hill, and 5% slower down the hill, bike Y will get the faster overall time. And that's why I race 29ers for anything that lasts more than ten minutes.

As one of my racing buddies says "We only race for fun... and it is more fun when you win!"

 @ iamamodel - I completely agree with most rides are a loop, and I will admit on flats and climbs I can smash a 29 almost as fast as my rode bike! I was responding to..."The difference between 26" and 29" is bigger in your minds than in reality" I for one can say I am not anywhere near as fast going down my local trails on a 29" as on a 26"... Since I do not race XC and I only climb to rail going down... for me suffering a little more on the climbs just makes the descents that much more fun!

However I have been riding my butcher this winter as a 27.5" so come spring I would like to do some more back to back runs with 26" vs. 27.5"

 nissmo127... I think your findings (which mirror mine) would make a great article on here, comparing the difference over time also.

 betsie - That would be a great article and long term test! With several companies now offering "convertible" frames I think it could be very cheap and easy to do!
I need to write little update soon as I have been getting a lot of ride time on the 27.5 in the muck both climbing and descending. Here in the Willamette valley it never gets warm enough to dry out or cold enough to freeze so it is just all mud all the time! Not a bottomless mud but a lot of red clay that sticks to everything and slick slimy brown loam with enough roots, rocks and leaves covering up branches to make life on the trail very interesting, it's like riding a slip and slide! 100% of the guys I ride with this time of year are on 29" bikes so the pluses and minuses are really easy to spot!

 I have timed Strava runs for over a thousand kays on my Trance 26", a thousand miles on my XTC 29er, and five hundred km on my Anthem 29", plus I do statistics and maths for a living, but you guys go right ahead...

I'm taking my toys and going home.

 You guys are funny. Talking about how your AM bike is faster than a XC bike on DH. Really?!?! Who would have thought...

 cool iamamodel... I have a small amount of engineering, maths and statistics experience.....

 It's all fad really. Hate Justin Bieber because it's the cool thing to do. Rag on fixies because all the DH bros are doing it. Now you have a reason to hate 29ers! Because it's the cool thing to do on PinkBike.

 hate bieber, but dress like him. kids make me smile

 @ dualsuspensiondave - I was not talking about a XC bike. I am talking about Long travel (LT) 29" and Butcher neither are a XC bike by any stretch! Both are meant to be "all mountain" so I think its a good comparison, no?

 @ iamamodel - I was talking about all three not just 26/29". I don't own a 29" but I am very fortunate that I can use one of the shop demos whenever I want. I started riding my "convertible" at the end of summer when most of the trails were blown up. I found myself sticking with the 26" at first unless the trail had a lot of flat pedaling, rock or climbing.
Now its Muck weather and I find myself sticking to 27.5". Now I'm thinking to myself come spring time what will be my choice and why? Am I the only one who is doing it? Is there something I am missing...etc.

Yes there have been a couple of tests they have been short term some even just a day of riding. Nothing long term one rider three different bikes(or two with a convertable 27.5/26") that's what I would like to see.
If someone has access to 26, 27.5 and 29 on a daily basis over the course of a season what do they choose more often and why? Do a monthly update to keep it fresh....
If you could do this for each region that would be amazing! Northwest, Nor Cal, SoCal, Desert Southwest etc..Because what I ride in the NW is nothing like what I have rode in SoCal.
Do I want to see just raw data...sure! But I would also like to see what people "feel like riding" you know normal stuff like I was out all night and it pedals better with a hangover! ...It descends better if I'm not on my "A" game...this setup is just fun and I don't care how it climbs or descends

I'm taking my toys and going riding!

 I could guess what toy I would prefer for different types of riding. Long flowy stuff where speed is king, but there are less hills or rooted xc I would take a 29er. Give me a tight winding down hill on rough stuff and I would take DH. If I need to pedal to get to the DH I'll take a 26" enduro style rig. Same with a groomed FR jump course.
I'd love to try a 27.5 since I can't have a lot of bikes and 60%+ of my riding is xc, but enough is the other stuff that I wouldn't have as much fun on a big wheel. Maybe it is the mix for me. How do 27.5's stack up in the enduro racing? That is my kind of stuff.

 OK: each wheel size has their pros and cons, but it really comes down to what feels right. Sure, a 29er might not fly as easy as a 26er (I should know, I have both), but the big wheels just keep on turning. With climbs and technical shit, that really helps. But 26ers are really flickable and fun. So there is no argument over which is "better," because everyone is a different rider, and everyone should ride what feels right, or just go ahead and have both.

 Maybe I'm just weird but I wouldn't mind a 650b dh bike and a 29er xc bike but a 26er am bike (also wouldn't mind having the money to pay for all that) I love my slayer because it's so flickable and just overall fun which my supreme dh v3 could never be anywhere near as flickable and pump able, can't we keep am bikes fun and make dh bikes faster? I won't be buying a non 26 anytime soon but it's food for thought

 @ mfbeast12 - That's kinda the point(pros and cons) some guys can hardly afford one bike let alone two. So if you had to pick just one what would it be? I think you would need to break it down into maybe, Category...Style...Region.

Bike Category - I like a little bit of everything but I like fast descents on steep single track with rocks and drops so: All Mountain
Style - I ride 80% for going down 20% for everything else taking after Fox you could group it in Climb / Trail / Descend: Descend
Region - NW Oregon Cascades/ Washington our trails tend to be very different from most of the country...

Just a thought that may make it less confusing when trying to explain bike choices what may be great for a All mountain Descend rider in Oregon, may suck for a All mountain trail rider in Arizona.

 @ nissmo - I haven't ridden 650b yet. When Giant comes out with one, then I will. Perhaps I will only have to wait five months when the 2014 stuff comes out?

 @nissmo127: That's a good point. But my two bikes probably have a combined value of $1800, its not like I have a Tallboy LTC and a Nomad Carbon (but that would be very nice indeed).

 @ iamamodel - I would encourage it I've been having fun with my 27.5 conversion! I'm also waiting to see if transition or santa cruz is going to have a proper 27.5" All mountain/Enduro rig for next year?

@ mfbeast12 - $1800 for 2 bikes is still a small fortune to some of the customers I see....I have a friend who just bought one of my used frames and is going to spend the summer working to put it together...Even after I donated brakes,cranks and some odd bits he may not be able to ride it until the end of summer.

 @nissmo127-
I am still on my parents' budget. The second I turn 18 my hard-earned coin is worth a lot more.

 Sadly mgbeast, when you are on your own you will have no money because you have to pay for all that stuff your parents did for you. I recomend getting as much good stuff as you can now, while you don't pay rent.

 @taletotell: I am aware of that. My thoughts exactly.

 I need to pinch a 29er for a real test of several days, to see what it is really like for average riding (not that I ever do average riding though). I always remember the Niner being the nicest I have tried to date.
Last time I was out with someone with a 29'er (tallboy) they avoided the very technical climb, choosing to pedal around on the access road, then when it came to going down that trail, which was full of loose rocks and was very wet, then ended up walking sections because they could not turn sharp enough to flick around the bigger loose rocks, or pop over them. Kinda made the climb harder to swallow. Then when we were on the flat later on a very technical section, they were pushing as they could not get the tyres to dig in to get enough traction, and the bike was too long and cumbersome to lift over the technical bits, adding to the few corners where you wanted to be out wide and turn hard/last second where the steering precision was not there. Strange to be out manoeuvred by a Nomad with a -2 degree angleset fitted!

 In my experience, 29er beats 26er evidently in terrain and applications having small or medium amplitude of climbing/descending and speed. It is just outstanding at carrying speed and keeping momentum. However if terrain demands often change of speed, where sze and type of obstacles changes very often it's advantage diminishes - let's say a terrain in which you would use dropper post nearly every 2-3 minutes (like where I live). We have to be clear here though: there is not that much of it in the world.

One thing I noticed on technical stuff on 29er is that it's rolling over capability indeed allows you to focus a bit more on looking ahead, just like riding a DH bike vs 6", certain size of obstacles just stop being processed by your brain. Problem comes when you find yourself in a situation of a bigger gap between bigger stones, as 29er is much harder to pop over such things. ON 26 I am focused all the time on ways to go over stuff and it is easy to pick up air anytime, so in such situation I have not that much probs of getting the bike over a 1ft deep, 2ft long gap between microwave size rocks. On 29er though that is a serious "holy shit!" The effort to pick the 29er up over such thing is comparable to making a really decent bunnyhop on 26". So this "easy rolling" can be treacherous. It numbs your instinct a bit. And to relate what Betsie wrote, when speed goes down and the size of stuff forces you to negotiate between them, my 29er really struggles, and I hate this momentum driving me forward when slowing down on really bumpy stuff, kind of turn lag.

Fast trails with little blind corners is where 29ers shine, the one in the vid seems great for 29er too, but I'm sure I'd have lots more fun on 26er to look for launch spots to go over those roots instead of plowing through them.

 seriously fuck off already argue on the forum

 I think eventually people will not dwell so much on wheel size as they are now. Hopefully the hate will get boring, actually it already is, and eventually people will just see them as different size wheels that improve the sport and make it more interesting, and not different genres. I would rather dwell on the fact that I'm near one of the best riding areas in the world and go celebrate the trails, cause this footage got me fired up to ride.

 +1 Protour - shikokukichiguy - I live in a part of the world that is almost 100% dominated by 29" bikes and have little to no gravity scene except for a small core group. Unfortunately unlike on PB 26" and gravity are the ones who are always hated on they have even gone so far as to negotiate getting our DH style trails closed for more XC style trails!!! I have even gone out to rides with my Enduro bike and was told "DH is not the image we want to project" I ended up riding another trail loop with a friend rather then join the ride. I really hope with the longer travel 29" and 27.5" bikes some of these gravity haters will calm down and see the light

 It wasn't long ago when there was a huge sympathy towards 29ers under some vid or bike test. Just as there was a huuuge prop for balloon wheels under this weird article. Just as there are really mixed feelings on 650B, instead of pure hate.

This is a semi-pop site - this "29er" in the title of the vid had no chance of not getting the whole thing into trouble. Im glad he put it there though.

And bikes are indeed different for different locations. I was always saying - if you ditch 29er for being a bike for poor riders, then get a bike with shorter suspension. There are as many lycra shorts deserving smacking as fullface helmets.

 tooo damn funny!!

 I thought it was a cool video in all, but definitely not my definnition of shredding.

 Amen. It's not cool anymore, any people are just flaunting their ignorance. It used to be easy and fun and everyone thought you were so damn clever for bashing 29ers, but get over yourselves and stfu about it already. Let people ride what they want and quit trying to convince the world your wheel size is better. To both sides of this stupid 'debate'.

 I wonder for how many people it's more resentment than just being critical/haters. It's not that I hate 29"/27.5" wheels, 15mm front axels, 142mm spacing, 11 spd, tapered forks, etc it's just I resent the cost. Bikes I spend thousands on are depreciated in value faster, I have to special order everything and wait a week or so b/c the LBS cannot afford to stock every option/size, and I have to replace the whole drivetrain b/c I can't find a rear derailer in the right spd. And for what benefit really. If the guy was riding a 26", 9spd, 135mm spacing etc on this trail would he have had any less fun. Options are cool but not at the cost and inconveince for just difference without real improvement.(I have ridden 29er bikes and they do roll better but there are trade offs that have been stated an endless amount of times).

 More options leads to less satisfaction no matter what choice you make. This fact is supported by various studies. That said, improvement of the technology and differentiation to different styles and terrains means there are going to be options. It has its headaches for sure and some of us get left behind for a while too. I know. I ride a 26er with a 135 axle and I like it just fine, but have less options it seems like when I wheel hunt because the tough wheels all run a 142 now. I use a 2x9 and if I want a new derailleur next year I'll need a whole new wheel and drive-train. Lame. But as long as we look for better ways to do things there are going to be new options. We just have to live with it.

 EzE01 I was just wondering how many ppl rippin on 29 have ever really ridden them. I for one have never ridden a 29. I can tell the rims are bigger but skill will overcome almost anything, that n practice

 Totally agree. Very few people seem to notice that my bike is a 9er because it looks in proportion to my frame and body size. I do however get a lot of comments that my front chainring looks tiny and say that my rotors are only 160mm when they are actually 180mm. I've never been so comfortable on a bike in o life before.

 You're on the right track but think about geometry, not just the wheels. That's where the big advantage lies.

 ...or disadvantage.

 A lot of the science of it is in the wheels. But yes, the frame geometry would be slightly different to try and compensate for the disadvantages of the bigger wheels and have an influence on the overall performance of the bike. I'm not a hater of 29'ers, I'm actually quite curious as to how they would really perform on a trail rather than me just making assumptions based on the physics of the wheels' sizes and what not.

 Think about the BB drop. 40mm lower than any 26"...

 It really depends on the rider. I'm faster on a 29 through tight sections, I use the grip to my advantage and I have always loved a slower turning bike. The bike goes where your head and eyes do, no matter what you are riding. The slower handling actually smooths the transitions out from turn to turn as they are not as sudden and prevents the wheel from losing traction. Of course I ride a medium 29 and a large 26. Climbing is almost always faster on a 29 no matter who you talk to that has ridden them. The one downside and only downside that I have found with 29 is the acceleration, but if you ride an AM 29 fast, you'll never know it because of the momentum that you carry and the extra traction the larger contact patch provides. The geometry of the bike is a huge difference. I believe that most people on here have not ridden a proper 29 AM or 29 enduro style bike on a DH/ jump line trail. Before I did, I thought for sure that 29 was for XC, and 26 was for anything burlier than that. Then came the stumpy evo 29 that I test rode on some DHish/ jump line trails. Unreal how much more fun I had on this bike than any 26 that I rode. When setup properly (run the suspension a little firmer), man this bike comes alive. I jumped over every little thing that I wanted to, even jumped better than the 26 and I could plow through whatever I wanted. I kept traction in spots I would normally kick the rear wheel out in (fun until you destroy your knee from laying a foot out), and I was way faster everywhere. The point is that physics is your friend, however geometry also goes hand in hand with this. No reason to compare a XC or light trail 29 to a proper AM or enduro 26. Apples to oranges, and each to their own. One last thing, one really has to push their limits when riding an AM 29 and when one does, the 29 will come alive. Cheers!

 Well said, Dave. It's good to hear how well a 29'er performs by someone that rides one extensively. Yeah I can imagine you don't want to run the shocks too soft on the 29'er. All this talking about riding 29'ers makes me want to go and try one. They do sound like fun bikes to ride on haha.

 Not sure why you think a 29er is hard to corner. Have you ever ridden one???

 What's not to like about a 67-68HA & 16.3" CS?

 Too much rear weight bias for a trail bike that's what,

 You gotta come out to Vancouver! Let me know next time you're out here, Bruce! Get in that Pil van with Reg and do a winter road trip, the conditions are great! I remember the first time I rode with you! Down at Millenium with my brother, Doug Fink, and a bunch of the old CC crew. I think it was this night: www.pinkbike.com/photo/93594 Keep it real Bruce!

 Ha! You rule, Stephen. As a matter of fact, regarding this year's spring, road trip, there's talk of heading to the coast instead of just shredding 'Loops. I only have Belladonna, my trusty, yellow whip (she's a good girl, soft and squishy, and she can totally take a punch), so I can't pedal up stuff, but we all probably just want to drink beer and do shuttles anyhow. The usual. I'm also doing a Whistler tour with some fellows from Oddawa. We will look you up for sure. Count on it. Yee-doggie!

 Technically, if you are talking about the rider needing to wear Lycra to be on a 29er, it would be a co-requisite.

 Better to judge a bike by a video than by a picture haha. At least you can see how it performs on the trail. Though, if it's a shit rider, (s)he'll make the bike look like absolute garbage...

 Seems like a tall guy. And the stuff he is riding has a lot of up and down, and the bike doesn't look like it comes with a dropper post. So probably easier just to run the saddle high.

 haha.

 Shit mountain bikers say lol