Fox Metah Helmet - First Look

 Duck-Billed Fuglypus!

 Pus-Filled Duglybuck

 yeah, I also like the design quite a lot (even the ducky/robin hood like style), but the bulky look on my head was a knock out criterion... :/

 Yeah before I even scrolled down to the comments I was thinking this reminds me of a duck's bill.

Also, lightweight? This thing is 400 grams not totally light but normal for an enduro/trail riding helmet.

Also that one hand retention system....found on like 90% of bike helmets over $80. All in all it's another helmet just a different style with a few slight differences from the competition.

 I lol'd at that mate it is a duck bill. haha!

 Also the visor seems to be fixed,no underneath storage for goggles. Also, the goggle strap would cover the bigger vents.

 I received one of these the other week as part of a sponsorship through the team I ride for. I sent it back and stuck with my old helmet, this thing is massive and the peak is like a huge duck bill, terrible helmet. Which is a shame as the Rampage Pro Carbon is a really good helmet.

 It's YUGE!

 How'd you turn a duck into a soul singer?
Put it in the oven till its bill withers.

*I'll get my coat

 @Ziph: Starting crowdfunding campaign to ban Ziph from all online activities for life...

 HA! Funny you mentioned that. I scrolled down to say the same thing, I ordered one and sent it back the next day because of how goofy and large it looked on my already weird long thin head lol. A great looking helmet in a product shoot, though.

 Yes it is. Put one on and then lower your head... like you're actually riding a bicycle downhill... now look up with your eyes... like youre actually riding a bicycle downhill... tell me what you see...

 @onemanarmy: a sailboat?

 @adwamski: Exactly! Well... more of a pirate ship... but yeah...


Seriously though... you can't see anything because that visor is in the way.

 man i thought that said metal at first

 @skinnersession88: one way to lose a sponsor bud

 Ha! Now I'll never be able to unsee that image whenever i see this helmet...

 @Shane-RYDER-Martin: I'm still wearing my Fox Flux helmet, that actually fits and my Rampage Pro Carbon which I love. I have a tiny pin sized head, and have to wear the XS Flux, as S/M is too big. This new helmet is too big for my head, and the smallest size in new helmet is a S/M and doesn't fit properly, which is a shame, as in product photos it looks awesome. Safety over looks every time for me. Plus i'm sure my sponsors would rather I be safe than unsafe.

 Definitely looks big on those guys.

 @Shane-RYDER-Martin: Amen.

 @bobplanetx and Shane-RYDER-Martin: So he should wear a helmet that doesn't fit?

 @skinnersession88: Wow, Fox must be so happy to sponsor an athlete like you. Great ethic and awesome way to give product feedback.

 This comment doesn't make any sense. This is pinkbike. Take your honest and accurate feedback and get outta here.

 @bonfire: You're probably right... got it all

 @Spacewolf:

Thanks for the unbiased review.
I see a big Fox ad over PB page right now. And the review is all milk and honey. Make me wonder about this coincidence.

 @MojoMaujer: this is no coincidence, but only you find it controversial. I think marketing and advertising are your calling, I hope you chose education path that corelates with your interests

 @WAKIdesigns:

so if it is not a coincidence that reviews and ads come up at the same time, is it also not a coincidence that product review tend to highlight the pros and overlook the cons?

 @MojoMaujer: Isn’t this a ‘first look’ not a review? PB doesn’t away form reviews in my experience. And who cares if it’s an ad? Someone’s gotta pay for the fact that this site is ‘free'.

 @MojoMaujer: This is a 'first look' to coincide with the launch. The helmet is in the field now and a concise review detailing what is great and what is not, about this new helmet from Fox, will be online in the coming weeks...

 I'm waiting for the Kashima coated chin strap.

 @Boardlife69: You know, that's a different company, right?

 @Boardlife69: Crikey you're right, you certainly don't want to end up with an OEM one! It simply wont work

 no bottle cage mount?!

 Is it Boost compatible?

 I'm pretty sure there's no 26" version?

 had one too haha

 I was actually distracted from how lame the name is, from how lame the actual product is.

 @groghunter: I'm no helmet fashionista - but this helmet is way ugly man.

 @DARKSTAR63: Plus, they aren't in a vacuum with this product: ignoring the styling, their competitors offer light/gopro mounts, MIPS, & even removable chin bars. and they've been on the market long enough that you can find them at considerable discounts.

I just can't see anybody choosing this helmet over a Bell, Lazer, POC, or Urge.

 @groghunter: Just picked up a mips Bell Super 2 on sale and it's a nice lid.

 @DARKSTAR63: I've been running the Super for a couple years now, as those vents at the brow are the first system I've ever used that actually kept sweat from running into my eyes.

 @groghunter: A lot of people will. It matches the FOX kits and some people will buy it just for that. Some people will buy it because it's the new fox. Some will buy it because they like it. Etc etc. This helmet will sell just fine.

But in my opinion there are far better options already on the market. Some you can get on web clearances because new stuff is coming in...

 @onemanarmy: "I can't see anybody buying this" was hyperbole for emphasis. I didn't literally mean there'd be zero sales.

 @groghunter:

Well... maybe 1... 1 person will buy it....

 @onemanarmy: It won't be me. Heck, I had a buddy who bought a Super 2 & quit riding before he ever used it, so I've got a brand new helmet waiting whenever I actually retire my original Super... which doesn't seem to be something I'm going to need to do anytime soon.

 @groghunter: If you've got a Super2R waiting for you.... get it. I love mine.

 @onemanarmy: Well, like I said, my Super is still rocking. I'll bust out the Super 2 when I finally retire the old one.

 I was wondering when someone was going to point out the Kali copy.

 Conehead is owned by a factory which makes many helmets for a lot of brands.

 A lot of companies have shared technologies for a multitude of reasons. Could be that another company owns that technology and licenses it to other. Or it could be that it's a good idea and many companies often come to similar good ideas at similar times and work parallel to each other... each using their own variant or using it in their own way. Kali has a lot of great ideas. One of my favorite manufacturers. But they pay attention to what other companies are doing just as much as those companies pay attention to them.

 Seriously. I'm not buying a second helmet to wear for the part of the year where it is dark after work. Does nobody at Fox ride on weeknights in the winter?

 Ambush...

 @HelmetGuy:

yeah...got this helmet already. it's the best one.

 This!

 My thought to. No MIPS?

 MIPS is a great invention.
You add a cheap badly fixed plastic layer and earn a 50+bucks extra for each helmet you sell.
Guess who really benefits from MIPS.

Marketing at its finest.

 @yuneek: Ive been developing my own mips... Its been growing on my head for a while now. H.A.I.R technology will be the next big thing. Human Active Impact Reduction.

 @mylespotter: This. Do people who like MIPS glue their helmets to their scalp?

 @mylespotter:

i've had this exact conversation with an engineer friend of mine. Testing the helmets with hair on the head forms. Currently they're tested with slick bald head forms. It's great for exact literal testing helmet to helmet. But it make sense that you would test with hair on it with and without MIPS to see what the difference would be.

I'd be curious.

But saying that... it's your head... it's your brain. MIPS weighs very little. If it helps decrease rotational concussions even in the slightest it's worth the money. If you're dropping $200 on a helmet what's an extra $20?

I ride a super 2r with MIPS and next year I'll be moving away from my excellent Giro Edit helmet to a Giro Range with MIPS. Why? Because rotational concussion suck.

 @yuneek:

$50 plus? WTF are you talking about? Must be a lot more expensive where you're at. Here it's $20.

Why aren't you talking crap about 6D or Kali's rotational technology? It's just small pieces of cheap rubber. Or what about the shell... it's just a super cheap piece of plastic. Who needs that.

Marketing is one thing... I've been in marketing for $20.... testing is another.

Data shows it helps. I guess you're brain cells don't matter to you. I'll gladly pay $20 for anything that might help that definitely doesn't hurt.

I've got helmets with both. I'll change to helmets with MIPS or other forms of rotational protection on every helmet I wear as often as the technology progresses. I've had more issues with rotational concussions than impact concussions over the last few years. And that includes SLAMMING my head into a tree the last winter hard enough to dent my helmet... nothing. Went down sideway the same season and just got whipped. Very minimal head impact... concussion.

Neglecting your brain for $20 is retarded.

Your reasoning... is retarded.

 @onemanarmy: not independent research with helmet liners stuck to plastic skulls without the movement allowed by scalp hair and other factors on real life human beings. I'm not against MIPs, I have it in my ski helmet, I'm just highly dubious as to its real value.

Not sure why you're taking it so personally and calling people retarded.

 @onemanarmy: believing "data" that comes from the same people taking your money is a mentally unfit thing to do... (so is calling people retarded)

Define what that "help" is, prove there is no "hurt". Prove changing the way rotational impacts are diverted from the helmet shell doesn't end up being a possibly far worse twisted neck injury. Sure that is a "seat of the pants BS" comment, but without third party comparative testing all this new helmet tech may just be "marketing BS"?

Admittedly, there are a few instances where the difference in MIPS is 20 dollars if you don't care what color and happen to fit a specific size or buy last years model. But there are also tons of instances where new tech is a hundred dollars or more expensive. I remember looking at POC helmets that first came with MIPS that were 350-400 bucks? That new 6D helmet is like 250 bucks.

Your welcome to spend your money as you like and for sure 20 or even 50 bucks isn't a total deal breaker when you consider how much use/wear time you normally get out of a helmet. But until I see someone do some "Mythbusters" testing with a bunch of different helmets comparing the difference I'll continue to be skeptical...

 First things first... let me apologize... it is about $50 for some companies for MIPS. POC for example. I'm Bell and Giro it's $20-25.

Over 50 companies are using MIPS now. Hard to keep track. $40-50 is pretty normal. So apologies there.

But to answer the two of you folks...

@GeorgeHayduke
Who said I haven't looked at independent research. It is available. And more will be available. And beyond that, just because testing is done internally it does not invalidate the data. It should be tested inside before it's used and sold. THe more data points you can find the better in my opinion... internal and external.

But yes... I have had the conversation and it is one that comes up ALL the time in regards to MIPS and your head having a natural slip plain. I agree that testing should be done on head forms with hair. I think it should be done both ways.

You should be at least thoughtful of it's value.

Not taking it personally... didn't call anyone retarded. Read the post more carefully. I said that neglecting your brain is retarded... and it is. I also said that his reasoning was retarded. After looking at more companies and checking line by line I can see why some folks wouldn't want to spend an extra $50 on the same helmet with MIPS... but in many cases you don't have to and/or it only comes with MIPS so you're looking at a high end helmet and MIPS is just part of it. His reasoning was that a cheap piece of plastic isn't worth money and is purely a marketing ploy. That reasoning is flawed.... the outer shell is plastic. The clip on the strap is a cheap piece of plastic. The o' ring on your cars injector is 3 cents... but without it you'd catch your car on fire. The cost of a piece does not determine it's value.

But mainly... I just like to stir the pot. Who cares. This post will get thumbs down until it's gone. LOL!

@stiingya
I don't just believe any old data. I've seen other companies data. And other companies are doing similar things with technology and have their own data. No one is hammering on the other companies out there when they're only reading that companies data. I've actually seen other testing and know for a fact that other companies will be testing helmets with and without mips directly to each other. I've seen MIPS sleds with my own eyes.

They're also not the ones taking my money. MIPS licenses the technology to manufacturers. Those manufacturers are paying MIPS... not me. I'm paying that manufacturer... so they're taking my money. And again.. never called anyone retarded... reading comprehension.

Tons of instances where new tech is a hundred dollars or more... POCK helmets... $350-400... sure.. POC, 6D, Kali, Bell, Giro, etc... many of them offer helmets at $200,400, 600 or more. But MIPS may or may not be a part of that and you're not paying all of that money for MIPS. You're paying $20-50 more for the tech. You have to look at helmets that are offered with and without... it's pretty easy to see the cost difference. Some helmets are available only with MIPS but those are usually higher end helmets and it's just part of the package that makes it worth more than the next helmet down on the line.

And again... you should be skeptical. It's your brain. But I am yet to see anyone point out data where it's worse. So if there's even a chance it's helping... I'll take it. I am a HUGE supporter of everyone that is attempting to help with rotational impacts. Many of my concussions have come from this. Anything that pushes head protection further has my full support. MIPS is not the end all be all. 6D or Kali may not be either. But at least with these companies out there other people are looking at ways to make it better and maybe one of them will be.

And I'm sure you'll see a large scale test at some point done by someone independent. There are some quality test labs out there that can do it and I'm sure those companies will be doing it anyways just to see how those helmets are doing compared to their own... and some company might rent it out to do just such an article.

I'd personally like to see users push places like Pinkbike towards doing just that. It wouldn't be that hard for them to get a handful of helmets with and without from each company that does it and take them to a test lab and test them. Wouldn't be free but for Pinkbike it would be worth it. They'd get a ridiculous amount of traffic from it.

I personally have helmets with both. I'll be riding a snow helmet with it next year. My dirt helmet has it. My moto helmet does not but I will be getting a flex helmet. My road helmet does. My urban shell does not... but it does have segmented flex. Etc etc etc. Anyway you look at it... I'll be looking to improve my head protection whenever possible and an extra $20-40 won't be what makes me say yes or no.

 Beyond that... I'm sure my co-workers are gonna read this and give me hell. LOL! I love stirring the pot.

 @onemanarmy: OK, you didn't call anyone retarded, you inferred it, still wasn't cool.

There is no "published, third party, comparative data" that I've been able to find. Another companies data doesn't validate the first company. Just because you've seen a MIPS impact test set up doesn't magically make the lack of third party data irrelevant. Even the best MIPS can say is it, "may reduce the risk of concussion on "some" impacts".

Helmet company pays MIPS, you pay helmet company = MIPS gets paid because you buy MIPS helmets.

Unless you had a high speed camera at a right angle at the exact spot of your impact you can't tell me what caused "many" of your concussion or "IF" MIPS or any other tech might have prevented them.

Bell MIPS helmets are as low as a 20 dollar difference, but they are also as high as a 50 dollar difference. The only Giro helmet I saw in both versions was a 20 dollar difference. Most of Giro's MTB MIPS helmets don't appear to also come in non MIPS versions so there is not a lot of direct comparison. Which is probably because so many of Giro's helmets come with LOTS of vents. And to make MIPS you have to reduce the number of vents.

Please keep buying MIPS, it will just make the cost of my Giro Hex go down. Thanks!

For thought, Here is Consumer Reports take on MIPS. I guess this explains why there is no third party comparative testing on MIPS...

"But whether a helmet with MIPS minimizes rotational force any better than a helmet without MIPS is a matter of debate. Some experts argue that your scalp or hair functions similarly to a helmet liner and allows for slide on impact. We did not test that feature because we could not find a standard test for rotational force."

Also their bit on concussions...

"There’s no single objective test to determine if someone has a concussion,” says Orly Avitzur, M.D., a neurologist and a medical adviser to Consumer Reports. “They’re diagnosed based on symptoms and the results of a neurological exam.” If there’s no objective test to show whether someone has a concussion, it’s difficult to design a test to see whether wearing a helmet protects against one."

Obviously if there is no test for a concussion in the first place. There sure isn't a way to know if it's a "rotational concussion" as you claim "many" of yours are...

 @stiingya: Why do you keep implying there has been no third party comparative testing on MIPS? This is not true and you are just confusing people with your conspiracy theories.

Such tests have taken place, as an example I have read a study from one of the European universities (think it was somewhere in Sweden, will need to look for the link again, but I got it from one of the PB articles, actually).

That study showed quite well when and where MIPS made any difference, where it did not, and which helmets in the test sample worked best in general. Surprisingly, a relatively cheap Bell Stoker MIPS was right up there with the POCs, sometimes better. Apart from conventional helmets, they also tested the Hovding airbag helmet and it was amazing to see how much better it was in every aspect. It's obviously useless for a mountain biker who needs to get up after a crash and have a helmet on for the remainder of the ride, but still interesting how much safety it can provide to commuter cyclists.

EDIT: to be fair, they did not use hair on the head forms, probably for consistency. Would be interesting to see how hair really impacts the helmet's funstion (provided the rider does have hair, of course).

 @stiingya: Got it:

www.folksam.se/polopoly_fs/1.139790!/Folksam%20bicycle%20helmet%20test%202015.pdf

There is more out there, but this seemed well executed and independent enough.

To be clear: I am not claiming MIPS is a miracle cure for concussions. I do not even own a helmet with one and I do not have enough knowledge to make any properly informed claims about it. This is just a response to your statement about the supposed lack of independent research.

 @bananowy:

I've given up. When someone is stuck in their opinion that's just how it's going to be. Dude bought a good helmet and he's happy with it. So I'm happy for him. HEX is a decent lid.

As for me... I'll keep my mind open to new ideas on improved brain safety... and mind you this is coming from someone that used to only where helmets on his race runs because he was forced to.

@stiingya There is a ridiculous amount of data available for what causes concussions and for different types of brain injuries. It's a hot ticket item and billions of dollars are being pushed into research on ways to stop it and/or detect it... etc. Read up on it.

As for anyone that's had multiple concussions... you can tell if you slam your head into something or not. It's really rather simple.

 @bananowy: Don't forget about the scalp as this also provides a slip plane.

 @HelmetGuy: True. So like I said, I haven't got enough knowledge to really judge anything here, but wanted to share that study which is quite interesting regardless of the differences between real heads and forms.

What kind of tells me that MIPS and other systems might not be a scam is that they should not really increase helmet sales or make it significantly easier to charge more. I mean, helmets are consumables. We buy them anyway and most of us are ready to pay a premium for a nicer paint job. I may be naive but in this particular case I genuinely believe the more serious companies are investing in developing a better product.

 @bananowy:

Exactly. Bottom line... the companies worth looking in to have 2 goals. Make money. Protect people. The two go together. If something is not helping them improve their product then its not going to help them sell their product and it's not worth investing in.

If your helmets are breaking or just not doing their jobs then people are going to start buying competitor product.

If you're sitting on your hands not trying to do more then eventually your competitors will put out better product and you'll loose business.

So a goal of a QUALITY company will always be to make better product.

There is literally no point in putting something that's just a scam in a helmet. It's too dangerous... financially speaking.

 @bananowy: It's not a conspiracy theory that all the tests I've ever seen come from the same source. The tests in Sweden are the ones from the people who developed the tech and brought MIPS to market. I've found different papers and different tests, but it's pretty much the same source. That's my point, the only data out there is from the people selling it, or affiliated in some way with that group of people. (to the best of my knowledge, I'm not saying I'm the end all final source for MIPS data. Just saying I haven't seen 3rd party comparative testing, and I've been asking over and over for it when new helmet tech comes out. And I truly look forward to it!)

How long did the SNELL standard for motorcycle helmets creep along with minor changes before they significantly updated it in 2010? ALL that time the SNELL standard was based on bad logic for preventing concussions compared to DOT. SNELL would have argued; no they did argue life and limb that they were dong the right thing with their standard. And I have no doubt they truly believed they were. But it was only when third party testing showed the discrepancies and media attention brought it to light that SNELL "significantly" updated their standard. But you can still find lots of helmets for sale with their old standard and probably will for many years to come.

Honestly it is quite likely MIPS does add some benefit. And I have agreed multiple times that for the 20-50 bucks it's not such a bad deal. But I DO NOT believe average mountain bikers wear their helmets SO TIGHT that the helmet doesn't rotate 5 millimeters anyway. And I do believe that the skin and hair also rotate. AND SO I want to see a test that allows for those factors! (and I want it to NOT come from anyone remotely affiliated with MIPS) Actually, it's not just MIPS. Anytime there is new helmet tech; or at least when a manufacturer is making big claims about their new tech, especially in the safety catagory I'd like to see 3rd party comparative testing.

 @bananowy: Where did MIPS come from again...? OH yea "Mips AB formally founded in 2001 by five specialists in the biomechanical field of the Royal Institute of Technology (KTH) in Stockholm, Sweden."

lets see, who participated in the well executed and independent test...?

Peter Halldin
, Department of Neuronics
. School of Technology and Health
, Royal Institute of
Technology (KTH)
, for performing the data simulations.

I assume still in Stockholm, Sweden?

Sorry, being a smart arse! And to be honest, this test might be 100% on the level. They do specificly point out Peter's conflict of interest. But "if" they felt they needed to point that out, why didn't they just get somebody else to crunch the data?

Anyway, in the end they still do not allow for "comfortable" helmet fit on a real head with skin that moves and for most of us includes hair. Also, they point out like the Consumer Reports article that there is not a standard for testing rotational impact forces and so they propose their own.

To be clear; I'm not claiming thier tests must be fake because they are from Sweden and included one of the founders of MIPS. But I do think it still lacks what I'm looking for in a conclusive test.

Thansk!

 @onemanarmy: OK, I guess you know more about concussions than some neurosurgeon. My bad...

There's neurosurgeons involved with MIPS too. But even Einstein was wrong sometimes... so I know either of these Doctors might be too involved with their particular view points to be completely impartial in the outcome.

 @onemanarmy: Yea, no business ever lied about their product to sell more stuff! NEVER... Not in the history of Mountain Bikes!!! ... err, um, well I guess we could make a list if we wanted to huh?

They make no "specific claims" about MIPS safety, so it's not like somebody can sue them for getting hurt while wearing a MIPS helmet. MIPS has a big bold disclaimer on it's website and Bell and Giro for sure have theirs up too.

Plus it is "likely" MIPS "is" beneficial to some degree. So I do not think it's a "scam". I just want to know how it compares in a real world loose fit, skin and hair test... and idealy from people who have no stake in the outcome of the test. What's so wrong with that?

 @stiingya: I don't know - to me, including just one person involved in the development of MIPS in the team examining various helmets with and without it is a rather obvious thing to do. After all, who would be a better advisor on what the claims are and what they are based on? They are fully transparent about it and I think you would agree there is a difference between one person's conflict of interest and the whole study being sponsored by the manufacturer. The test does not sugarcoat MIPS in any way and shows clearly when it does absolutely nothing as well as how small the differences are when it even works. It also shows how much of a compromise between bulk, practicality and protection our styrofoam pisspots are in general.

I did say before that I fully agree a test with hair and a scalp would be great, I just imagine it would be so hard to keep it consistent.

As for proposing their own standard for examining rotational forces, I guess they had to do that if nothing had existed before, no? Otherwise they would just have had to scrap the whole idea and wait for someone else to come up with a standard. Someone had to be first. Of course I agree the more researchers validate or negate that standard, the better. For now, this is what we have and it seems quite legit (unlike the way Fox tries to spin their non-adjustable visor on this new helmet here, for example).

Cheers

 @stiingya: I can agree with ever comment in this post.

Like I said earlier... mostly just stirring the pot. I see people hate and its fun to get them going. You were hating on the tech for some silly reasons... you're progressively making more sense. LOL! My job is done.

Side note... helmets are not mountain bikes. And helmet companies can get sued very very easily if any claims they make are bullshit. It's happened... hell, it's happening. Disclaimers cover you for people being idiots but when a technology or a statement of that technologies effectiveness is proven false you could be in for a world of hurt to the tune of billions.

MIPS is beneficial in a slight degree. Their claim is not that it's the end all be all but that it helps rotational impacts. It does. It's claim is that it's effective only in certain situations.

I agree 100% that more tests should be done and the tests should be done on standard head forms and head forms with hair.

But you have to look at it like this... car companies say hey this car gets 22/31 mpg. 22 city. 31 hwy. But those 31 hwy miles are on a treadmill doing the most efficient mph that that car/trans are set up for. Not at modifying freeway speeds with head winds and hills. But it gives a baseline that everyone can make their individual claims on so there's a sort of standard for the industry. In other words... you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

The hair tests and these other tests are awesome and I'm sure will be done. But the standard will be the headform that all test labs are using... because it's the standard... currently.



And no... I do not know more about concussions that a neurosurgeon. You're saying 1 guy is totally right and the other is totally wrong because one of them supports your stance and one does not. That's ridiculous.

There are billions of dollars worth of studies going on right now and the world of concussion awareness is still relatively new. More is being learned constantly. But there's a damned good reason that helmets in EVERY industry are working to decrease rotational forces and it has nothing to do with my personal concussions.

 @onemanarmy: I'm not saying "one" guy is "totally right". I'm just repeating general information and happened to quote a specific neurosurgeon as a source because I was making a point. Google concussions, "as you've told me to do", there is NO "test" for a concussion. They only diagnose "symptoms". So there is NO way for someone to conclude they've had "rotational concussions" as you have claimed.

I"m also not saying the MIPS neurosurgeon(s) is "totally wrong". I don't doubt physics, if something moves as it's struck it dissipates energy transfer. I just want to see data from someone who doesn't also happen to be making money off the data and also see how it compares to other helmets.

For sure the NFL is putting a LOT of money into concussions research and they are totally looking into the aspects of rotational force and their role in concussions. Likely there will be a huge increase in knowledge on the subject from that research.

MIPS "probably" is beneficial, it also "may" be statistically insignificant when specifically applied to the average mountain bike trail rider. Just about nobody going out for an average trail ride wears their helmet super tight. And unless it's a full face it's NEVER going fit like an NFL Football helmet which feels like it's nearly "part" of your skull! I can "totally" see MIPS being extremely effective in that instance; Football. As well as pro lever riders and racers, especially Downhill, Enduro, and Freeride. But if you stop by your local trailhead and go around doing a helmet check I just don't think your going to find anyone who's helmet doesn't already move around PLENTY!

@bananowy In the scope of that "series" of helmet testing it makes no difference who they picked. They are just testing bike helmets and used available resources. Nothing wrong with that. But as far as someone looking for "data" on MIPS it can't be considered "third party testing", which is what I've been saying. If your trying to get a quote on fixing your car, you don't take it back to the same shop, or even the same chain of shops to check and see if they gave you a good price? You have to find someone not already part of the first "process" to test for bias.

I don't know if Mythbusters is still around? Or if you have seen that in the UK? But I can totally see them figuring out a way to "simulate skin and hair" on a crash test dummy. Make sure each helmet was put on like a "casual" trail rider which is a "little" loose so it's still comfortable! Put those g-force shock sensors on it and then I'm sure they'd have a mountain bike on some kind of guided pulley system so it could go down the same bit of trail and "CRASH" the same way over and over. Then they'd get half a dozen helmets and send the crash test dummy down the hill 20-30 times at specific speeds to get enough data to look over.

Maybe it would be just like the tests in Sweden and MIPS/similar tech would totally out perform other helmets? But "maybe" loose fitting helmets would perform good too? OR maybe it would be one of the times where the data would show that if your going "X" speed and you get thrown off your bike and hit your head than it doesn't matter which helmet you have on cause your going to get hurt! IDK? But I sure want to see that kind of a test!!!

Hope you got out and had a good ride today!

 @bananowy: Good morning! Afternoon? I went for a quickie ride this morning, was up late so I didn't do anything big and I'm either going again this evening or taking my nephew for some tame trails. I actually went farther "up the mountain" where the trails aren't as crowded so I only saw a couple other riders passing by and didn't bother them. BUT, on the way back down the mountain I stopped off at one of the "busy" trails and walked up and set on the rocks next to the trail and played on my phone. It's a steep little punchy climb at the end, and the rocks are big and close to the bars and a lot of people dismount right at the last part, or are going slow enough that it's easy to talk to them. I only waited 15-20 minutes and I missed one group of three guys as they were talking between themselves so much I didn't get a chance to ask. BUT of 7 mountain bikers on their way "in" from a ride I asked them how tight thier chin straps were. I know, hardly "conclusive third party testing". (note, I purposely didn't ask the "out" going riders as I feel like my straps are "stiff" and my helmet fits tighter when I first put it on? BIDK?)

BUT I got one person, just one younger guy who answered that he "keeps his straps tight" and when I followed up if his helmet "moves around", YES it still "visibly" twisted. Not that that much, but I'd still guess more than 5mm. Only two other people actually "showed" me their helmets moving around, and both of them moved as much as mine does on my head. With the adjustable band my helmet stays put while I'm riding, but my strap is comfortably loose. So if I grab my helmet and move it, it totally rotates around. The adjustable plastic band hurts a little when you do it. But it does totally move.

I posted another time in a simliar discussion that everyone should grab the top of their buddies helmet and "shake it around" to see how much it moves on their head. Probably the straps will hurt some like mine. But "my guess" is that on average, you'll get your buddies helmet to move around quite a bit? This is really my whole basis for questioning MIPS. Again, full face downhill helmet. The fit is much tighter, when I grab the chin of my FF it moves around "some" but it also physically moves my head with it. Not as much as Football helmets did when I was younger. But the experience is very different than with my trail helmet. And my "trail side testing" sure seemed to show similar results. (though, obviously I'm NOT saying this is "data")

NOW, maybe the lesson here is that we should all tighten our friggen helmets up??? MAYBE testing of "loose" helmet straps will show that is super dangerous, etc? IDK. (obviously if the straps don't keep it ON your head that's bad!) Or maybe this will be like high and low speed compression. Maybe my helmet moves super easy because it's a big gradual "push"? Like low speed? But if it was a high speed "spike" maybe it wouldn't have the chance to move the same way? Maybe that is where the low friction MIPS system would be a benefit? Again, IDK.

Anyway, it was interesting to ask some trail riders the question...

 The Flux visor had no adjustment either!

 very good point.

 Agreed. I can not for the life of me figure out why they don't offer 40-42's. That is not that abnormal of a size and some folks will run it because they need a bit more leg room anyways. My quads are often the problem. Not my waste. But I have that issue with a lot of companies. Truth is... they don't want certain people in their gear. Fox has another brand that they target towards a larger crowd and do offer larger sizes. Stuff pisses me off. It's like Brixton only offering XL size flannels... a small slim fit XL that's really just a large. It's like... dude... it's a flannel... real mean wear flannels. It's not all 150 pound hipsters...

 And Fly borrowed it from Kali, who was the first manufacturer to use it. They're also using stuff now that is a few generations ahead of this...

 @BrapHarder: yeah, but it wasn't actually borrowed from Kali, Conehead is a trademarked name that designed it to be sourced out to manufacturers in the moto/cycling worlds

 A lot of people are working with similar technologies. Some of them make sense... some of them don't. But just like MIPS... it's moves in the right direction. I don't think helmets should be discredited just because they don't have MIPS.

 @onemanarmy: 100% agreed, MIPS is great but come on people... do we really think that anything will magically make everything safer. I'm pretty sure MIPS or not, a hard hit is still gonna give you a concussion

 I follow through more when I try to fart after a curry.

 Oops, replied to the wrong person. Sorry :'(

 I follow through more when I try to fart after a curry.

 naH

 I watched that entire video laughing my ass off

 In person they look and feel pretty nice. It's the fit, fit system and the insanely large bill that I had issue with...

 have you seen the matte black one?

 @yorntjefreerider: the matte black one with the large shiny stickers in the article above?

Yep, saw that.

 If you have a $30 head, buy a $30 helmet

 @YoKev: LOL!

I like that mentality a lot.

Anyway, show me data that says my $30 is vastly inferior to helmets you're inclined to purchase and maybe I'll change my mind.

www.bhsi.org/testbycost.htm