Ask Pinkbike: DIY Boost Hubs, Mixing Suspension Brands, and Softail Suggestions
Here at Pinkbike we get inundated with all kinds of questions, ranging from the basic "Can I have stickers" to more in-depth, soul searching types of queries like if you should pop the question or what to name your first child. Ask Pinkbike is an occasional column where we'll be hand picking and answering questions that have been keeping readers up at night, although we'll likely steer clear of those last two and keep it more tech oriented.
Adapting a Standard Hubset to Fit a Boost-Width Bike
Question: kaslowski asks in the All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country forum: Long shot, but does anyone know if you can boost a Mavic Crossmax ST hub? Are there any brands that are even compatible?
Lindarets Boostinator kit uses a longer axle stub and a brake rotor spacer to convert a 142mm rear hub to the 148 Boost width. | Unfortunately, at present, there is no practical way to adapt Mavic wheels to the Boost 148mm standard. The right side of the rear hub cannot be spaced over, due to cassette and chainline issues, and spacing the left side the extra six millimeters will offset the brake rotor inboard of the caliper. There is, however, an adapter kit available from Lindarets called the "Boostinator" which presently fits DT Swiss hubs and will soon be available for hubs and wheels from Hope and White Industries. The Boostinator kit includes a longer left-side endcap, a special spacer for the brake rotor, high-strength rotor screws, and instructions. The modification also requires the customer to shift the wheel's dish three millimeters to the left to re-center the rim, and simple instructions are given that should allow relatively competent home mechanics to accomplish the task in fifteen minutes or less. Adapting the front hub requires a special right-side spacer and the same re-dish treatment to center the rim. MSRP ranges from $24.95 to $39.95 per wheel. - RC |
Boostinator conversion of a 142mm DT Swiss rear hub to Boost 148mm width.
...and the conversion from a 100mm DT Swiss front hub to the Boost 110mm width.
Mixing Suspension Brands?
Question: WillCoates asked in a direct message: I'm fitting a Float X2 to my all-mountain/enduro bike (whatever you wanna call it). A local suspension guru was saying that the new X2 will completely outclass my Rockshox Pike RCT3, and will make the bike feel unbalanced. Just wanted to hear your opinion on this and see what your impressions were when comparing it to whatever fork you used when you were testing it.
| There's absolutely no reason that you can't run your Pike up front - the Pike and the X2 both have enough adjustments that you should easily be able to achieve a balanced suspension feel, despite what that so called 'guru' told you. I've run the X2 paired with a Pike, a Lyrik, and a Fox 36, and was happy with the results in all instances. It's a misconception that shows up every once in a while, the idea that there's some kind of rule against mixing different brands of suspension. Sure, there are rear suspension designs that work better with one brand or model of shock over another, and companies often test shocks from multiple companies before deciding which one to spec, but there's nothing wrong with having a Brand X fork paired with a Brand Y shock. Take a look at the latest Santa Cruz Bronson for example - Fox handles the rear suspension, and RockShox takes care of the front. - Mike Kazimer |
The Bronson may have two different brands of suspension, but they mesh well together out on the trail.
Softail Shredder
Question: Pinkbike user Toopysteps asked this question in the All Mountain, Enduro & Cross-Country Forum: Hi, I am looking to get my 2016 bike shortly and I'm thinking of a lightweight softail instead of hardtail this year. The problem is I need a 15" frame and preferably 27.5 wheels. Any ideas?
| As it happens, I have spent an unhealthy number of hours researching cross country racing bikes this week. I stumbled across a bunch of 2016 bikes that could suit your needs from Trek, BMC, Canyon and Orbea. The BMC Team Elite is the only true softail using 'Micro Travel Technology.' An elastomer damper gives up to 15mm of travel and can be swapped between three different durometers to change the stiffness. BMC only offer 29" wheels for the Team Elite, but the XS size frame has the extra low standover height for smaller riders. Trek have introduced their new 'IsoSpeed decoupler' technology on the new Procaliber model, which was originally developed for their Madone road bikes. The 11mm of compliance only works when sitting down as the decoupler lets the seat tube move independently to the top tube/chainstay junction. This means you should find hardtail efficiency with added seated comfort. Trek's 'Smart Wheel Size' geometry means that the 13.5" and 15.5" models use 27.5" wheels and all the larger frames use 29" hoops. Canyons stunning new Exceed bike combines flex in the rear triangle along with their new bendy seat post to smooth out the trail. Their video suggests 10.9mm of total travel, but like the Trek, that seat post won't be eating any bumps if you're standing up. Their XS frame size also sees the drop down to 27.5" wheels while all others are 29". The top of the range CF SLX 9.9 LTD is likely the most expensive and lightest direct sale bike to date at 9000 Euros but weighs a measly 7.9kgs. Orbea claims their new Alma and its '4X4' system makes the frame 211% more comfortable. Instead of designing the frame around two, three-point triangles, the frame gains a pair of extra angles making two quadrangles (or irregular squares?). These extra angles add compliance by adding flex points the structure. Orbea offers the widest range of wheel sizes here: 27.5" for S/M/L and 29" in M/L/XL sizes. - Paul Aston |
BMC's Micro Travel Technology gives 15mm of adjustable damping.
The all-new Canyon Exceed. This diagram shows the total compliance gained from the flexible seatpost and rear triangle.
Trek's IsoSpeed allows the seat tube to move up to 11mm independently of the frame.
Orbeas' Alma. The extra angles in the seat stay and top tube allow some flex are said to give exactly 211% more comfort.
Have some unresolved tech questions? Jump in the Pinkbike Forum and we'll look to answer it for next time.
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Whining about it is like complaining about the weather, does no good.
I'm definetly missing some too haha. f*cking mountain bike standards.
ps. i'm not going to start on headset size, bb size, handle bar size hahhaha
The 4-stroke shook up the moto world when Yamaha put Doug Henry on it in '99, but it has a long road to travel before it was the machine it is today (which in-turn has made the 2-stroke nearly extinct today; KTM being the major exception).\
I'm blown away at all the overnight trends coming out of the mtb world and so quickly being adopted as "standards".
- Travel wise we seem to have stabilized eg no more +200mm forks but everything else is still changing.
- Rear axles are not stable at all! As DT has already made clear (amongst others) 148 boost is just the tip of the iceberg.
- Suspension technology seems to be stabilising as well with most brands making very decent suspension.
- Tires have also stabilised although plus/fat tires will probably be evolved further to allow lighter weight without paper thin sidewalls.
- Procore and other tubeless technology will continue to evolve and hopefully one day flats will be highly unlikely without resorting to heavy tires.
- Geometry will continue to evolve in the direction of longer and slacker because as has been said by many experts we aren't even close to the limits.
There have been needless changes for sure:
1. going to 35mm diameter handlebars from 31.8mm,
2. going to 15mm axles when 20mm was already available plus 20x110mm was already boost and thus 20years future proof!!!
People still gripe about the new wheelsizes but the fact of the matter is that just like 200mm double crown forks are better than 180mm ones for DH bigger wheels are better. In a few years there will only be 2 wheel sizes with several different widths for the different tires i.e. no new 559mm rimmed bikes being developed though just like 8speeds cassettes the rims/tires will still be sold though of course not at the highend scale.
20x110 in the front
Shimano Saint 2008 axle mounted rear mech (2008 was no rapid rise, the 2009 and later generations were no longer axle mounted)
octalink BB and cranks
26" wheels
2x9sp drivetrain
straight 1 1/8 " steerer
IS brake mount front and rear
27.2mm seat post diameter (and 26.8mm on the DMR)
Luckily I don't have the oversized centerlock for the Saint hub and rotors
The thing is that typically the top end components are the first to comply to new or different standards. So if these quickly become obsolete (say, a new standard doesn't make it) these expensive components become hard to get replacements for. This Saint centerlock mentioned above, rapid rise stuff, full 1.5" steerer. I think it becomes harder to justify spending a lot on an expensive frame. Say you got a nice titanium Commencal 4X hardtail (2012), you'd expect it should last you a while. Then a few years from now you'd have to replace the fork and rear hub. So that's a straight steerer for a 26" fork. And a 135x12 thru axle hub in the rear. Chances are you can't get those from the high end brands anymore. Sure the sub top (Suntour etc.) will step up and probably do just fine, but it is not what you had in mind when you bought a bike for life. I'm not saying progress shouldn't happen, 142x12 sure is better than 135x12 but progress nowadays definitely makes you hesitant about investing into something new and valuable.
I'm using the Boostinator (at least part of it) on my Mavic Crossmax, latest version of those wheels. It works perfectly. Just on rear as my fork is not Boost.
Shifting is unchanged as the cassette spacing is unchanged; braking is perfect (no rub, perfectly centred) as the 6mm spacer between the rotor and the hub moves the rotor over. Redishing the wheel 3mm took about 10 minutes.
Because Lindarets doesn't make a NDS end cap for Mavic I had one made up by a machinist.
It's a great way to be able to use your existing wheels in a Boost frame.
What Pyga have done on the stage max is the right idea. Move the cassette outwards, allowing a more symetrical and wheel.
While on the rear wheel I can see there is a marginal benefit, Boost on the front is just a waste of time unless you're called $RAM and are in it for the Dollar.
That's all.
The frame I wanted -- the new 5010 -- came only with boost. Sure in an ideal world I should buy new wheels with boost hubs.
But the only wheels I'd want to replace my Crossmax would be carbon. That's minimum $1200USD. Not sure if you know anything about our Cdn dollar but it suck right now. So those wheels are closing in on $2000 Canadian.
At some point I'll spring for them but for now the Boostinator is a great solution.
I still have the other wheelset with the Boostinator as a spare. I used them for a few months and it did the job for sure if you want to keep your existing wheels.
It's not perfect but it is a great -- and inexpensive -- way of running your existing wheels in a boost frame.
1. Axle standards that keep changing which makes old wheels obsolete.
2. Shop employees who don't know jack about tuning suspension.
3. Smaller bike riders who have to compromise to get a bike that suits their needs.
The most helpful suspension gurus can guide you toward finding settings that work best for you, but it's a process.
Anyone who says they'll set up your suspension for you is full of crap.
After trying some different quality of suspension on my bike, I can say when the shcok is much better than the fork, (or if the fork is much better than the shock), you can have a feeling that the bike is "unbalanced", not that the adjustements aren't on par, but the lesser quality part feel even worse that it really is.
I had this feeling when I replaced the cartridge in a boxxer, the vivid felt good with the old cartridge, but the bike felt like a bouncing hardtail with the new one.
But again, to be a 'guru' and tell somebody that they can't ride a pike and an x2 together is just nonsense of the highest order. That's all I said. I'm pretty sure santa cruz know if a bike rides ok... They aeem pretty happy with the combo for them. So to say they can't work together is ridiculous.
You turned it into a baffling argument about whether fox are good or not.... Which I never said.
There is almost zero consistency in around here (Sydney) when is comes to your LBS.
(the mixed suspension works a treat btw)
What bollocks.
What makes a rig more comfortable is how you ride it. I can have as comfy a day on my frankly awesome steel hardtail as I can on my €ndur* rig.
I wonder what it takes to be 212% ?
C = B_u * l^2 / sh *it
/sarcasmOutTheAss
Just to clarify. We say that our new Alma has a 211% improvement in vertical impact absorption. This number is the result of a testing comparison between our 2012 Alma and the latest one. A fixed weight was applied to the saddle and deflection of the seat post was measured. A combination of reduced seat post diameter and slimmer seat stays on the newer design amounted to just over twice as much deflection. We called this "comfort" because "vertical deflection" might be more accurate but isn't as meaningful when talking about what the rider can expect to feel. Sorry for any confusion!
Regards.
Ugghh...I can't stand bike shop elitists who come up with ridiculous ideas like this. Really? The X2 is going to outclass one of the most premium suspension forks on the market? As if there are absolute REQUIRED setups you need to shell out huge money for in order to achieve the ultimate performance. Such a load of BS. I've heard so many stories of newcomers being snowblinded by fast talking salespeople and 'sweet-talked' into to make purchases they ultimately didn't need (or worse yet, entirely put-off the sport by these snooty, elitist attitudes), not to mention the brutal personal experiences I've had over the years! It seriously drives me mad.
A bit of a side-rant here, but these stories often remind me of all the times we hear the "support you LBS" mantra, and it seriously makes me wish I had an LBS that supported ME so devoutly! Sadly, the number of times I've been screwed outweighs the number of times I've been offered a helping hand.
PS. That's my honest (and very disappointing) experience, by the way.....not just a jab a whistler. I was actually seriously unimpressed by some of the total jerks our there who think that park was built just for them : (
Luckily, for both bike shops and whistler, it's a FEW bad apples who are spoiling an otherwise GREAT community of people! A vast majority are still just your average, awesome, down-to-earth mountain bikers : )
In general, very similar to the kind of behavior I've seen from cocky, park-rat types that I've met before when skiing. It was the first time I'd seen the same behavior from mountain bikers. Very unimpressive....but thankfully, these "bad apples" were still just a small minority.
Killer bikes... real pricey.
1991 was apparently the first proto
Yeah. From Moots.
www.specialized.com/us/en/ftb/road-components/seat-posts/cgr-carbon-seatpost
Im gonna go on a limb here and say that you are a dentist.
Seriously 200 for a seatpost? And even worst a specialised seatpost.
moots.com/bike/mountaineer
Bigger tires, lower pressure.
Its an agressive 29er hardtail.
Do you think I can move my caliper in 3mm on the center lock rotor side? I unfortunately have a boost frame, with XT center lock wheels. Should I just get a 6-bolt adaptor and regular rotor for the rear? Pain in the arse!
I only have a front brake on my to-be built bike.
But in any real world scenario, someone willing to spend the money for a new boost frame and fork, and then not using the advantages of boost and saving a little money by keeping his old wheelset... hmmm.
Iso Speed was how ever originally developed for the classics in Europe. It began on Trek endurance road platform the Domane that was released in 2012 if I remember correctly.
Since then it has branched on to Trek Premium Cyclocross platform the Boone and most recently in (June 2015) the Procaliber (Cross Country) and Madone (Aero road race)
I do not believe you can tell the difference between 100 and 110mm front axles on 2.8wide low pressure 27,5+ tyres.
You do NOT need wide spacing to get the tyre clearance.
It's all MARKETING BS. Fork makers could have easily made wide clearance 100mm forks and everybody could have been happily using and interchanging their good old wheels with 100mm hubs.
It makes me sick seeing these boost adapters. Like omg, such a hassle for such a bad solution on a "standard" that should have never existed in the first place.
Rear is a bit different story due to chainline and tyre-chain clearance.
Right on buddy...no drawbacks except for the $$$ you have to spend to get the frame with that "technology".