Pinkbike Poll: How many Gears Do You Need?

Nov 1, 2013 at 3:32
by Richard Cunningham  
Mountain bikers may not realize how many times we double or triple shift during the course of a ride because the terrain changes at a faster rate than our bicycle's gearing can handle with a single shift. Become conscious of your shifting and you may be surprised that almost every gear change is a double click. It is a phenomenon we have largely learned to live with, but it begs the questions: "Do we need such closely spaced gearing? And, do we really need 20, 30 or 33 gear ratios to get the job done?" Spend a month on a single speed and it seems absurd that the basic mountain bike transmission is so redundant.

photo

SRAM's one-by-eleven drivetrain is a game changer, but will its wider gear spacing and slightly more limited range translate to the masses?



Old-School Gearing

There is a consensus among old-school cyclists that a large number of closely-spaced gear ratios is the best possible solution for efficient power delivery. It seems that it is human nature for us to settle into a precise cadence and watt output, which leads us to believe that, if our bikes had just the right gear ratios, we could pedal happily onward with no regard to the gradient of the trail or the direction of the wind. In fact, the magic delta (rate of change) between gear shifts of a mountain bike cassette has been established at 13 percent.

Reportedly, Shimano has done extensive testing and has found that riders start to complain that the spacing between gears feels excessive as the cassette reaches a delta of 15 percent. Bang out the numbers on a calculator and Shimano's 11 x 36, ten-speed cassettes jump about 13-percent between shifts - except for the hop from the 13 to the 11-tooth cogs, which is closer to 15 percent. Don't blame Shimano for that big jump, however, because sprocket teeth are exactly one half inch apart, so it is not possible to design a cassette with perfectly spaced jumps between every gear option.

SRAM XX1 and Shimano XT cassettes

SRAM's eleven-cog 10-by-42-tooth XX1 cassette (left) and Shimano's ten-speed 11-by-36-tooth cassette (right)



Just in Case You Wanted to Know

SRAM eleven speed: 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42

SRAM ten speed: 11, 12, 14, 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36

Shimano ten speed: 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36

photo

GT agrees with Shimano. Its key 2014 trailbikes feature two or three-chainring cranks, powering Shimano 11-by-36 cassettes.



Multiple Chainrings

The notion was largely decided, however, by road racers, who must match the the pace of their competitors' at all costs, or risk losing the draft and being relegated to distant back markers in a handful of seconds. The same may be said for cross-country racers, who must match subtle attacks on the climbing sections while maintaining their optimum cadence. The reason geared bikes have two or three chainrings is to allow a racer to pedal comfortably across the widest possible speed range. Because speeds of the average trail rider vary from a walking pace to 30 miles per hour (6.4 to 48 Kph), the multiple chairing option seems logical - simply choose the chaniring that best matches the situation and then flick the right-hand lever to fine tune the cassette cogs to match one's personal power output. Shimano strongly supports the multiple-chainring drivetrain for exactly those reasons.


Specialized began experimenting with six-speed cassettes for DH and eventually
settled upon a seven-cog system.

The DH Option

Racing often puts sharply focused demands upon all components. Downhillers adopted a close-ratio road cassette long ago to use a smaller, less-exposed rear derailleur and because the speed ranges of the pedaling sections on a typical DH course are more condensed and thus require narrower gearing. The close-ratio aspect of the road cassette, however is not optimal, and we are seeing more teams using custom, wider-ratio cassettes with as few as six cogs, presumably, to eliminate multiple shifting and to save time. Specialized was one of the pioneers. They began with a six-cog cassette based upon a Shimano Capreo system and it morphed into a seven-cog option for the Demo 8.

One-by for the Trail

For the average mountain bike rider, it seems wrong to have to pop off twenty or thirty shifts when ten would be fine. SRAM's XX1 seems to address the dedicated trail rider with a single chainring and only eleven, more widely spaced gear ratios. XX1 gear-shifts run closer to 15 percent (more or less), which soundly trounces the 13-percent rule. The beauty of SRAM's wider gear spacing is that in most trail riding situations, one click of the right-hand lever is all it takes to find the right gear. SRAM did not pioneer the wide-range one-by drivetrain. SRAM's contribution was the smaller, ten-tooth cog on the high end and the addition of an eleventh, 42-tooth low gear - an innovation that gave the one-by drivetrain a range that was darn close to conventional, multi-chainring transmissions. The fact that eleven options could improve on thirty aptly challenges the old-school theory

SRAM's one-by-eleven, however, does not completely solve the double and triple shifting issue. There are situations, like being faced with a steep climb around a blind corner, where a one-by transmission must be shifted five times to obtain a low enough gear to get over the top. In my experience, though, having fewer, more widely spaced gearing options, better matches the demands that the average trail puts on the legs. The more technical the terrain, the better the SRAM XX1 option seems to perform. Take it out on a paved highway and, like an off-road motorcycle, the XX1 bike reaches its top speed prematurely - and when pushing the wind or riding in a group, the wider-spaced shifts can feel awkward. In effect, SRAM's XX1 could be defined as the first dedicated trailbike drivetrain to come from a major player - and intended or not, a bike equipped with an XX1 drivetrain is a dedicated trailbike. If all you do is ride dirt, that can be a wonderful thing.

What is Optimum?

Outside of single-speed and freestyle riders, who can get along fine with one, how many gears are enough? Do trail riders need more options than a one-by-eleven? Can DH riders get along with six speeds? Is a three-by-eleven, 33-speed drivetrain in your future? How many gear options are optimal for dedicated mountain bike riders? You've heard our take, now we'd like to know what you think.




How many gears do you need?

Choose the answers that apply






Author Info:
RichardCunningham avatar

Member since Mar 23, 2011
974 articles

340 Comments
  • 73 5
 Trail bike - 32T or 34T Up front (depends on terrain) and 11-36 10 speed out back
(Should this be called Enduro specific gearing?!)

DH bike - 38T front and as small as I can get, 6 gears about back (but currently running 10, because that's what's available)
  • 45 3
 ^^exactly "because that's what's available" we seriously need proper downhill downhill specific gearing. 10 speed is far too many for downhill, I seem to usually use 3 or 4 gears, then on faster tracks like fort william the 3 higher than that. Seems a bit silly that I need to run a cassette with a bunch of gears I dont need. For trail bikes 1X10 makes a lot of sence but for downhill it clearly doesnt.

Forget the trend of everything being "enduro specific" all I want is proper downhill specific...you know like every other component on my downhill bike
  • 7 13
flag wakaba (Nov 1, 2013 at 4:53) (Below Threshold)
 Optimum:
2-3 rear, 38 chain ring for dh. Would love to have a beefy sram automatix.
2 small, 1 intermediate, 1 large for rear, 2 chainrings front for chainalignment and uphill for road, commuting, xc. But I could do with just a single chain ring.
Single speed for park bike.
  • 203 13
 No no no - we are all wrong. There are different people and different terrains all over the world and only two companies making gearing. We cannot choose to make one thing that makes sense to everyone. Those polls are made for us to hate on one another... enough hating - let's take off our slippers and touch weiners.
  • 6 2
 Buy a road cassette.
  • 10 11
 DH bike - 6 in the back with 34 up front.
  • 7 1
 I want 11-16 on a 6 speed. I don't care about big changes and having to adjust my cadence. I'd rather have rapid response crisp gearing.
  • 7 3
 anything enduro specific.
  • 10 1
 ooooh waki, your flag has changed. i run a 1x10 for my xc country bike, and there is nothing i have run into in a summer of riding and a season of racing with the bike that i could not climb, due to my gearing. get 10 gears, 11 if you have the money, and shut up and pedal.
  • 28 36
flag waxyfeet (Nov 1, 2013 at 5:47) (Below Threshold)
 Waki, one thing I can say, is that we all hate you. God every time you post, my haemorrhoids flare up.
  • 7 1
 waki is right, so the two big companies either need to offer us more options, or a new drive train company needs to rise up. On a related note, anyone know where I can find a general lee for sale?
  • 8 1
 I run Shimano 11-36*36 living in a not so flat wales and never have a problem climbing mountains. However, 10-42 makes a lot of sense for a less strong rider like my girlfriend, who cant put down a 1:1 ratio on the climbs, but would still run out of gears on fire road connections on a 32t front.
  • 6 4
 This write up was kinda stupid of course you are gunna spin out on flat ground.That will happen unless you are running a triple crankset even 99% of the time you don't use it. Xx1 is an amazing idea just riding 1x10 I enjoy my riding a ton more no fiddling with the front three and shifting the back gears to get the right ratio.
And @Waki love your comments keep up you speak a lot of sense
  • 49 3
 all i know is i hate front mechs. I'd rather walk.
  • 10 2
 The finer chains stretch sooner and wear out the cogs. Less gears is better in every way but one: difficulty. We need to be offered a high end 6,7,8 for trail riding.
  • 5 0
 I can't say there is 1 right answer. All Depending on your riding. Like a single speed wouldn't shine on an AM or XC bike but it would on a dj.

I agree with @sup3rc0w on those setups.
  • 8 5
 For long xc climbs I think that there should still be a 2x/3x option to drop down to when you want to just spin up a hill.
  • 4 3
 This man speaks the truth. As someone who rides almost every day during the summer climbing big hills to get to the big descents, I find my self burning through chains every 1.5 - 2 months with a 10 speed chain. 9 speed would last 2-2.5 months, depending on the conditions. Note when I say burning through chains I am talking about wearing them to 0.75% on a park tool chain checker not snapping them
  • 6 2
 You must be doing something wrong, what lube do you use?
  • 25 2
 That's what she said!
  • 20 0
 Shimano has already addressed the DH issue if people wanting less gears. The XT cassette neatly disassembles so that you remove the top three cogs and are left with 7 and the saint mech has long enough limit screws to accommodate this. Just run spacers behind it to make up the difference. It saves nearly 200g on an 11-36 cassette and allows you to run that wide range cassette that has bigger jumps than a road cassette which I never liked to do because the jumps are too close and required too many shifts to get that gear you want. You also get to run a short chain and short cage. It's here now, yet hardly anyone seems to now this and is still asking for it. All that remains to be done is for someone to make a wider hub that fits that setup without using spacers for better wheel dish. Hit up the hub manufacturers not the drivetrain manufacturers, since that's where it's lagging.
  • 10 1
 I believe there are different tools for different jobs.

You cannot generalize your gear preferences. It jump/ street/ bmx it would look pretty funny to have a 3x11 set up but for a carbon 29er hardtail, that is quite practical.

For dh 1x whatever you want, for djstreet/ bmx single speed, for enduro 1x/ 2x 10/11 etc.

Get ma jist?
  • 6 1
 This oughtta help increase your sex...I mean chainlife..

www.backcountry.com/bike-lube-degreaser?nf=1&p=brand%3ADumonde%5C+Tech
  • 3 5
 Pahahahahahahaha! +1
  • 4 0
 I ride 9 speed 11-34 on an XC bike with a 32-22 double crank (was triple, simply took off the 44), and I have to say, I am perfectly content with the gearing, the only reason I want to upgrade is for the sake of shifting quality, which would mean going 10 speed as all quality mechs are now 10 (or 11) speed. I use almost all of my cassette every ride, but almost never use my 22 in the front. Essentially, I would be perfectly content with a 1x9 setup with a 32 tooth chainring and an 11-34 ratio (although on a DH or enduro bike I may want something else).
  • 5 2
 Very Happy with my 3X10 gears. 10 High gear for the road and open field XC trails, 10 medium gears for the fast XC flowy technical trails with light uphills, and 10 light gears for the long technical pain in the arse uphills, and of course for when you've been riding for 5 hours and have no energy left... There's no perfect setting in this game, only the settings that fits your riding type and make you a happy rider!!
  • 1 0
 I wasn't saying this is what it has to be. It is all rider preference as some people do 24h races on single speeds. So I'm not saying something is better over something else because I witnessed a guy on a fully rigid single speed come second in a solo 24h race. I would just like to always have the opportunity to go for 3x, 2x or 1x. It would be nice to see a wider range of dh cassettes but tbh I think I would stick with 9/10 speed. What I'm saying is that there should be the option for everything for everyone.
  • 10 7
 Don't we have enough options? You can run fixed gear on Rampage bike and you can go 3x up front with twist shifter, 11back with trigger XX1 and there are 3sp gear hubs giving you possibility to mount cassette on them. Drop in 18speed pinion inatead of tripple front and you may start wacky shifting frenzy.

We have enough options.
  • 4 1
 i agree, Waki. less icing more cake, please. the only thing i need more of is time and places to ride. that's where i like to spend my money.
  • 2 0
 l really feel like l only need 5 gears. I have a singlespeed DJ bike as my only bike, and there're only a few climbs in my local trail system that l need to walk when l ride trails. Right now it's a 32x13 singlespeed, but if l had a 10-13-17-23-28 casette, I'd be golden.
  • 5 0
 ^sounds like a 4X/ss build waiting to happen for you.
  • 4 1
 I wasn't saying we didn't have enough option. We now have more options than ever. I just don't want companies to stop making 3x or 10speed cassettes. Keep it how it is. Don't change it. I feel the same about wheel sizes. Isn't it better to have more option than less? I would hate to see shimano and SRAM stop making 3x set ups.
  • 1 7
flag tjet (Nov 1, 2013 at 8:53) (Below Threshold)
 @Lukechadwick apparently you have a communication problem.
..
  • 4 3
 @tjet apparently you have a reading problem. *lukachadwick
  • 4 0
 What about a Rohloff? 14 gears spaced evenly 13.6% apart. If only more people would buy them, they'd be able to afford to start making different axle lengths and try to make them lighter.
  • 7 0
 Appears we all have problems, whether they be chainlube problems, gearing problems, communication problems, or reading problems...
  • 5 0
 Pinion.
  • 2 0
 I run a 2x 34-11 rear and 36, 24 up front (which gives me a ratio of .706 low to 3.27 high which is approximately what i would get out of a XX1 with 42-10 and a 32 up front). I'm one of the weak riders that can't push 1:1 on my local Colorado Climbs and also find few occasions to spin out when pointed down (i don't ride too many trails where i waste vert going down a fire road.) I don't have much trouble with my front mech and don't drop chains since i put a blackspire stinger guide on so i don't have an deep and abiding hate for the front mech like seemingly everyone else does.

Shamefully, i find myself more drawn to the 1x systems because it would free up more space for me to have other levers on my handlebar like dropper remotes or suspension lockout remotes. Its not just that they would all look awful up there, its that you end up with too many things to do at the same time; when you come to a climb you need to shift, extend you seatpost and lock out your suspension, its just too much. That's why i want a 1x so i can take shifting off that list of jobs my left thumb has to do.

PS there is a joke in there somewhere about my left thumb, jump on it PBers.
  • 6 1
 9 speed with a 32 up front by 11-36 9spd, because screw spending money.
  • 3 0
 11-34 9 speed cassette and 22-36t front w/bashguard
  • 2 0
 I'm with thealmightybryn - with 9sp stuff plentiful and cheap, no reason to change just yet!
  • 1 0
 Yep. Running a 34t thick/ thin and a 10spd cassette. Best gearing I've ever had. 34/36 is too easy for most situations other than near vert. 34/11 is only for flat out plaid times - I'm never out of gears and I can mash from one end to the other in 3 pulls on the trigger. I'd be happy with 9 but 10s a nice round number.
  • 1 0
 Well the XC/enduro is a 10 speed 11-36 rear with a 32T up front. All that's needed.

DH bike is a 34t up front with my own customized 7 speed (11-17)et up on the back. I used my 10sp SRAM set up and it works bang tidy. There is no need for any more gears than that on a DH bike.
  • 4 3
 Yes but according to race heads the more tge chain is crossed, the less efficient is the system. Larger the nr of teeth more efficient the drivetrain. So 3x front can be over 5% or so more efficient than 1x. Lubricating chain alone gives big results. High cadences also increase mechanical efficiency according to Rohloff. So... What if you were told you loose 5% of your power output by using XX1 instead of 3x9?
  • 2 1
 The nine speed is thicker so the chain and cassette last longer. I've seen people come in with old 6,7,8,9 gear that lasted two times an 11 or 10 speed
  • 3 0
 There is now this on the market.... www.i-mtb.com/first-look-leonardi-general-lee-10-40t-cassette A ten speed 10-40 cassette....
  • 3 2
 @loganflores - do you speak of chain thickness or width? Thickness of plates or width of the spacer between plates? Cuz width has no impact on strength of the chain. At least Shimano claims that their 10sp XTR and Dura Ace chains are the strongest ever, because they made them so. Because they improved technology and materials over the years. But I am asking because I don't know...
  • 1 1
 we need a dh cassete with 6 speed 11-25 id say maybe 7 speed depending
  • 1 0
 as well as 9 t in the back so you can run a smaller ring in the front bmx has 14mm axles and use a 9t youd think with 10mm and 12mm you could do it aswell jeez
  • 4 0
 A 10sp chain has exactly the same plate thickness as a 9sp. It's also got the same pin diameter. So by those facts alone, a narrower chain would be stronger and less susceptible to stretch. The cogs are the same thickness, just closer together. So they last the same. People think thinner = weaker, but they are not seeing the whole picture. All other things equal, a shorter pin means a stronger chain. Imagine if that little pin was a metre long; it would bend easily. Imagine trying to bend it with a vice and pliers if it was half the length it is now; next to impossible. So keep on thinking 10sp last less time than anything else if you want, but physics says you are wrong.
  • 1 0
 im talking about cogs
  • 2 0
 Was not talking in reference to your post, but others above it. Looking back at your post about 7 sp DH cassettes, I think you should see my comment further above about Shimano's existing 7sp DH solution. What you want is already available and I have run it all season. There's a photo in my gallery of my setup and all you need is a spacer kit, XT cassette, saint mech and no other modifications.
  • 1 0
 I run a 1x8 that used to be a 2x8. 32 x 13-32. I am going to switch to 33 x 11-34. What I want is 35 x 9-36 with 9 or ten gears. I only really want the 10 gears so I can get a clutch derailleuer. You know they can do a 9 tooth cog but won't because of premature chain wear on a high end gear set and reconfiguring the hub. Rennen design makes any tooth single ring with even micro gearing.
  • 1 0
 7 speed all the way
  • 1 1
 A narrower chain with the same force put through it has to withstand a greater load. That is going to make it wear out quicker, assuming equal quality.

WRT running fewer sprockets on a normal cassette body... what's the point? If you don;t need them, don't use them. Taking them off is not going to do anything but give you fewer gears. They key is to use the space you have created, widen the hub flanges and take the dish off the wheel. To me, there is no point having a 10mm gap between the biggest sprocket and the inside of the cassette body. It's a waste of space.
  • 1 0
 Sorry Kramster, I just read your post further up. I'm right with you on that, I also posted about it further down. We don't need anything new but a re engineered hub.
  • 1 1
 Yeah no worries. In the meantime the benefit is 200g weight savings and being able to run a shorter tighter chain. And no chance of jamming a chain between the cassette and spokes is a bonus.
  • 2 0
 You can do this yourself without having to buy an expensive conversion. If you're on 10 sp:
Go into your toolbox and pull out 2 x 7sp spacers(if you haven't got this, go down to your local bike shop). Remove your 10sp cassette from the hub, remove the first 3 gears (largest numbers of teeth), place the 2x 7sp spacers on the hub and replace the remaining 7 cogs from the cassette. You still use the normal spacers between each cog and this will fit nice and snug when retightening.

Boush, you now have a 7sp. Undo your cable tension and physically place your rear mech on the largest cog, really the cable, fettle and your done.
A ten minute job that cost you less than a £5 / $ 10 note to perform. You've not bought the latest Ti replacement hub unit costing £200/$400 from the gimmick store. If people want a pictorial on this, let me know and I'll put one up.
  • 1 0
 The problem here is, if you just take out the cogs you don't want, the tooth position from one cog to the next is off. Your shifting with be terrible because your chain will not have a smooth step up. The guys who make the general lee had to do a ton of work to figure that positioning out.
Better to just drop $200 on a general lee. It is a lot of money, and if you can't afford it, like me, then you just get to live with what sramano sells you.
  • 1 0
 precisely, works for me, has done for years.
  • 1 0
 For those who are complainig about not having some 6 speed cassete on market, I have one thing to say! MAKE IT YOURSELF, I have a sram cassette originaly with 9 speeds, I just take off the 3 big rings and use 3 bottom bracket spacers then you just have to work with your shift cable so that when you are changing gears your chain doesn't jump into the hub and spokes, DONE!
  • 1 0
 Hey Bikertrash, I had the same problem. Chain stretch wears out the cogs and rings faster that anything else. I climb everyday to reach the descents and it's steep. My solution: I get as many chains as I can afford with each new drivetrain, switching the chain after each 20-30 mile ride. This time I bought 8 chains. This spreads out the chain stretch, and they all wear at the same rate, so the gears last 8X longer in theory.
I started this idea with 3 chains 2 years ago and it worked, then I did 5 last year. This time I'm doing 8. The bonus is you always have a clean chain for each ride.
  • 1 0
 Just pulling chain rings off does nothing for any of the problems with 10-11 speed cassettes. Amazed i need to say it.
  • 1 0
 That's the thing taletotell, it hasn't changed any of my cog spacings or alignments. I've not Borges anything here. I've replaced three cogs with spacers that are the same measurement. Mechanically, there is no difference. The only difference between mine and what you'll find from an aftermarket product is that mine is 2 spacers instead of a CNC mechined piece of alloy.
  • 1 0
 Any chance you can post a pic?
  • 2 0
 I'm on a 9spd with 36t single ring setup, does the job for me and has done for years! Can't be bothered with all this 10/11spd setups, it's just more to go wrong and waaaay more expense that I don't need
  • 2 0
 The effect chainring size has on some frame's pedalling efficiency hasn't really been discussed yet, but it is a factor worth considering.
  • 2 0
 I have the same opinion as mretard here. I have a trek scratch and I ride 36 single up front and 11-28 gearing in the rear. It has been Pretty reliable for over a year now and works just fine on downhill parts and some technical terrain. There are some nice uphills here as well which are not so tough if you're fit enough from regular touring and so on. But still for most this would be a more downhill oriented choice i guess.
  • 3 0
 I'm on a 28t single ring setup, rear is 9 speed 11-34, derailleur is a short cage shimano Zee 10spd converted to 9 speed (many people have done this - google it). The whole gearing setup cost me 135 Euros new (custom built from bits and pieces) and I had a blast collecting them. This way I get the new clutch on the rear derailleur, the short cage I've always wanted, and I get to stick with the wider/stronger 9 speed chains. Now all I need is a Sram 1-to-1 front shifter - my improvised leverage ratio modification in the rear is occasionally a bit off :-(, Ha Ha Ha!
  • 32 0
 does it really matter? if you spent 6 months riding a low spec 8 speed setup your body and fitness would adapt and eventually make up for the lack of easy gearing. personally i run a 1x9 setup and i cant justify spending money on 10/11 speed when digging a tiny bit deeper on a climb will probably benefit me more anyway
  • 7 2
 This answer often comes up, you make a viable point, but I don't buy it. If you're really after more fitness then you should be pushing hard whatever gears your're running. The difference being on 11 speed you'd be more efficient so as well as getting the fitness gains you'd likely be going quicker too. Justifying the cost of switching to 11 speed is a different matter though, I'll be sticking with my 1x9 and 1x10 setups for the foreseeable future.
  • 11 1
 ahh my point wasnt that 1x9 gets you fitter, just that maybe if you just "run what you brung" your body and riding will adapt to it. but if we had this attitude for everything we would all be running singlespeed full rigid bikes i guess
  • 3 0
 Its more about just always having the gear to get up any feasible climb with a 11-36. Not all climbs are possible on a 1*9 (because of the d0.13 rule you wouldn't want an 11-36 spread.)
  • 2 1
 Aye - actually I was quite surprised how much better 1x10 was than 1x9 - having that extra low gear makes all the difference on steep climbs, right at that point where you're struggling and wishing you had a granny! What this article refers to is a good point, you don't need more gears per se, it's just nice to have a wide range.
  • 2 0
 I totally agree, I run an old sram x5 8 speed I've never been able to justify the £100 to upgrade to 9 speed. I'm just as fast as my ten speed friends on the way up, and I never feel I don't have enough gears, even with a single ring up front.
  • 2 0
 I'm still on 3x8 for the XC bike, it really makes no difference, I use all the gears, start off with the middle and large ring, and when I'm totally knackered I move onto the granny ring.

1X8 for DH
and 1x1 on the pumptrack/DJ bike.
  • 1 0
 I still run a 1x8 on my dirt-jumper hardtail that is now repurposed as a trail bike. I love the 1x part, can't say the x8 part is all that awesome. I do a lot of fireroad climbing and would love an extra 1, 2! or 3!! gears in the back.
  • 1 0
 I can understand wanting another gear. My wide ratio 8 speed cassette is fine if you keep your cadence up, but sometimes when you're tired you do wish you had one more gear, especially with a 36t up front.
  • 1 0
 @L0rdTom I'm running 9spd 11-36 (bodged two cassettes together because they were lying around so i thought I may as well) and breaking this d0.13 rule doesn't bother me massively I have to say.
  • 1 0
 psyickphuk - you also make a viable point but I lean more towards what bluumax said first. As soon as they have an "easy" option available most people are going to use it, especially if it is under your thumb. 36t rear makes next to no difference to 34t, it has more to do with post purchase rationalization than actual win, there is a 9sp 12-36t Deore cassette anyway. I was talking the same after I bought 10sp, then I got back to 9sp HT and had no probs pushing 34t. The only way to get to ride 1:1 ratio after years of having granny ring, is to force yourself to do it. Perhaps just riding won't help and it will make you do strength training off the bike. But most of us are weak at will when it comes to equipment which we buy and upgrade in order to enhance performance. We just put too much trust in those expensive toys. We are irrational beings, and hey, I'd drink to that anytime. Someone smart said once (and I'm not religious anymore): if your hand is a mean of sin - cut it off. If we talked 11-28 cassette vs 11-36t I'd say get an intermediate option but 32 to 36? - STEP ON IT!

The same issue comes up often when talking of riding HT or BMX. RC said once that, it's like teaching someone to run by giving him cripples. Well the matter of a fact is that original BMXers do wonders on DH bike after less than a month of riding, and people who started on fully or even worse a DH bike can't ride BMX at all. They buy BMX because they think it will improve their technique, then after years of failed attempts they sell it. It always works from the bottom up, but never the other way around.
  • 1 0
 This has probably been said already but i can't see it..
what happened to the standard 9 speed MTB cassette like on DH/FR bikes and other various MTB's.
I thought this was the standard... like all the components i used to look at where all for 9 speed. 'Shimano mega 9' and all that.. (Saint,XTR,XT,Deore...etc) and about just over 1 year ago i stopped mountain biking to focus on work for a bit ..then i went and bought a new DH bike recently, and i noticed it was 10 speed, i looked at all the other 2013/14 bikes and they are all 10 speed.. did i miss some sort of mtb revolution here? when did this happen? if anything i thought there would be less gears for DH bikes in the future.. ?
  • 15 0
 Very happy with my 1x10, Narrow Wide 34t and Shadow +. Buuut, when you get tired, a bail out gear is missing - if Shimano could produce a wider spaced 11- 40 tooth casette, that would be the answer...
  • 17 0
 where is the 9 speed option?
  • 3 0
 9spd isn't really on sale anymore I guess, but I'm still running it so good question.
  • 13 1
 For me this is the ultimate solution www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/index.html The only thing stopping me from buying one, apart from the price obviously, is twisted shifter. I want Rapid Fire style shifter! I do believe that Speedhub and gearboxes are the future.

Also I think that present MTB drivetrain is pointless because of exposure to the elements. I can't think of any drivetrain in off road application which is as unprotected as bike drivetrain.
  • 2 2
 Pick up a Rohloff and then go talk to an engineer who works on suspension about unsprung weight. Hub gears are not the right solution for mountain bikes.
  • 6 0
 l ride a Rohloff with a 32 single @ the front on an NS Soda. Its not light but its tough and Perfect for trail riding. l understand about unsprung weight but l don't find it an Issue hubs Centrally located on a frame are the future for trail.
  • 3 1
 l felt the same way as you with regards to the trigger shifter, but the twist shifter Rohloff works great, l built a trail on a steep Section of pine forest with steep drops straight into tight Switchbacks, when l invited Conventional drive train riders to try the trail out, they had trouble getting to the right gear fast enough, as l had Inadvertently made the trail to suit my Rohloff. Which can almost Change right through the gear range in a single shift, without the need to pedal. Grip shift works best when you get used to it.
  • 6 0
 Ultimate solution = gearbox inthe front triangle.
1) Make the housing a universal standard (just like rear der mounts are universal standard)
2) let us mix and match the number of gears ((6 to i don't know, how ever many they can fit 18 like pinion does) and their ratios

Why?
1) gives everyone that range and intervals they want
2) has less sprung weight than a tradition system
3) less exposure to the elements as EnduroriderPL points out.

Trouble is getting major frame manufacturers to get on the same page as the gearbox makers.
  • 2 0
 Also don't understand how they can't make a trigger shifter for a gearbox or hub gears. Not an engineer but i don't see any mechanical reason.
  • 2 0
 @ Patrick9-32 For now I still think that Speedhub is the way to do it. You're absolutely right about unsprung weight but in return U get single speed with perfect chain line, ease of maintain and lot less of conventional drivetrain (shifters, cables, triple chainring, two derailleurs)

I've tested old Nexus on my hardtail endurorider.pl/2008/12/nexus-sg-7r45 and it worked great! Yes, U have to get used to different weight distribution but this one was beaten to death, only 5 gears out of 7 were working, but still it was a revelation. First of all You can change gear without pedaling and this is the thing that I want on my mountain bike. Secondly everything is sealed quite good even in this very old model. And last but not least I was managed to do a service (dismantling) of hub myself so there is no need to be afraid of geared hubs.

I always wanted to have Rohloff but it is GODDMAMMM expensive :/

@freestyIAM As I know Shimano they have all the patents for trigger shifters and if even one was left on the maket SRAM got it Smile

Popular, cheap gearbox near BB is the thing I'm waiting for a long long time.
  • 1 0
 @muttongun I was using twister a long time ago Sachs Power Grip Wavey and I really liked it Smile but now I'm all RapidFire fan Smile
  • 2 3
 Gearboxes are up to 8% less effective than well lubricated, quite straight lined chain. DH - yup, anything else: cog to cog. Nobody will give up 8%... But keep em gearboxes coming. Diversity FTW!
  • 3 0
 In the long run a Rohloff is the cheaper option. If you change the oil regularly a Rohloff can do... well, no-one actually knows how many miles. There are guys with tens of thousands of miles on their Rohloffs. They are so well built that it takes 500 miles to break the thing in. If you ride a lot then a normal derailler drivetrain is going to have to be replaced in its entirety every two or three years. With a Rohloff you can run steel rings, cogs, and singelspeed chains, which are all far more durable.

You can't use a twister shifter on a Rohloff because there is not enough cable pull with each 'click'. I forget how much a Rohloff needs, but it is many times more than triggers.

Interesting fact: when the Rohloff was introduced is was the same weight as the XTR of the day. Only XTR keeps getting lighter, and Rohloff is the same weight because ze Germans want to keep with their reliable niche product.

As much as I love the concept of Rohloff, the unsprung mass is a major problem. I can feel the difference.
  • 3 0
 It's possible to make a rapidfire shifter pull as much cable as you want, just the people who make them make what they want to sell. If gearboxes took off, of course there would be triggers available.

I think most people would take the 8% loss of efficiency if it was marketed right. Fashion dictates what most people buy. Just look at it from the other angle. Almost maintenance free, straight chain, no mech to smash, cleaner looks, stronger wheels, lower unsprung weight.
  • 2 0
 Rohloff is the exact equivalent of 3x9 For most of my Enduro MTB life is was very happy with 3x8 and switch to 3x9 only because of RR Plus shifters. As far as I'm concerned there is no perfect solution for the time being. Despite it's weakness Speedhub is the way I want to go.
  • 5 2
 It just amazes me how much people out there can afford any setup they like, even on two bikes. Yet they all go for standard rear mech setup. I saw more Zerodes in my life than people with geared hubs on a MTB. I'm fine with it as a variety, as an alternative, some people go for an inferior design from their own reasons. Like me buying Mavic stuff instead of ZTR or light-bicycle. We just should stop behaving as if there was some giant business agenda holding a superior design from "the people" because that simply isn't true. But yes 8% efficiency loss could be sold with a good story
  • 4 0
 It is not 8% power loss, I've never heard it be quoted as that much, so here is the first thing I found:

www.rohloff.de/en/technology/efficiency
  • 3 1
 And when people quote an IGH's loss, they forget that a derailler also has a 2-3% power loss. The net difference between a Rohloff and a derailler-based drivetrain may be around -2 to +2%.
  • 1 0
 @iamamodel I bet You that most people won't that 2% difference. When testing old Nexus I was running 2x5 setup and the gear ration wasn't enough to go to the mountains but with Rohloff and variety od chain rings and sprockets I'm sure I can dial in just fine.
  • 2 2
 But Rohloff says that they get to 95% above 80rpm which is a no-can-do-how outside a fireroad, if even there. I am just putting up questionable issues. I have 2 bikes with 1x10sp drivetrains. I have cheap stock wide-range cassettes available and the clutch rear mechs. Im not changing anytime soon. I can afford Rohloff but I am too old for trying things so radical. I am also strong enough (and at the same time not strong enough) to not need XX1. My commuter has 9sp with immortal 2001 XT and XTR.
  • 3 0
 Rohloff, Alfine, Nexus, Pinion, Effigear etc. May have slightly more drag than a deralieur drive train in a clean lab with clean drivetrain. But add any of the following that don't happen to a gearbox and things quickly change in the gearboxes favour
bent hanger
bent mech
premature cable stretch
premature chain and sprocket wear
dirt, sand etc will effect a mech more
dirty, bent or poorly set up chain guide or guide bearings
thick thin tooth chain ring drag
shocking chain line
Then there's the being able to shift any time with a gearbox. I shift in the air, rock gardens, corners, anywhere on my Zerode, and I'm in that gear when I want to pedal, no grinding it through barbarically, or having to wait for even ground to pedal it through without rock strikes. No suprise hidden climb bothers me.
I have both a Pinion/Nicolai coming with 600%+ range and an Effigear/Cavalerie with choice of 7, 8 or 9 speed with 450% range.
In the mean time, my Trance works fine with an 8 speed Alfine, unsprung weight is not a noticable issue on such a short travel bike, but the Nicolai and Cavalerie will address it anyway. I have a Nuvinci and Sturmey Archer on my other bikes, and loved the Rohloff in my Lahar, but who needs 14 gears for DH.
Grip shift is pretty good for all but DH. You can dump several gears in one maneuver. Effigear offer a shifter option, but I'll stick with the grip shift for a Enduro/All MTN/WTF bike. I'd try a grip shifter on my Zerode(I have one ready)but it's not big enough deal to do. I'll try it if I break the Sram modified Zerode trigger.
  • 11 0
 Shimano 11-38 cassette with narrow wide front ring would be perfect setup. In the mean time 11-36 does the job. Sram, I love the xx1 drivetrain but 400 dollar cassette?.... I'll pass.
  • 10 2
 Thy shall not pass! Yup, 11-38 would make my day big time. Then I could run 36t front on my trail fully.
  • 10 0
 often i ride my mtb 15km on the road to get to the trails. just to get more km in for fitness sake. I need the large chainring to keep up a good pace. if i always drove my car to the trails, a single chainring setup would make perfect sense for me. different setups for different situations. no setup is perfect for everyone
  • 1 0
 Great point. A 32t up front will get you a nowhere on the road.
  • 8 0
 Great article. I know one of the Da Bomb testers. He is running just the smallest 7 cogs of a 9 speed cassette, on a special hub with a short freehub body. It gives 7 gears, uses the wider 9 speed chain, and most importantly builds into a dishless rear wheel with 150 spacing. That is the shiznit for DH.
  • 5 0
 And if SRAM and Shimano are worried about how they are going to sell less gears, they lessen the costs by only having to re-engineer the rear hub. Use existing 10 speed mech, shifter and cog spacing, with either six or seven gears, and one funky spoke protector sprocket like Steve Smith and Gravesy use. Fiddle around with the flange spacing, make the spoke protector carbon and they'll sell like hot cakes and build up to stronger wheels to boot. Clearly a win-win. Get on in Shimano.
  • 2 3
 Carbon spoke protector?!? Go home
  • 2 0
 You are so right jaame !!
6 or 7 speed cogs do exist for dh but they still use that weak 10 speed chain ! being able to use a 9 speed or even 8 speed chain with 6-7 gears would be great (stronger chain) !
  • 4 3
 Why is a 10sp chain weak? If they use same plates as in 9sp then it is only the spacer between plates that is narrower and everything else is the same, so the chain is as strong as 6sp. Dunno
  • 1 1
 @ Fuglio

www.pinkbike.com/photo/8673851

Apology accepted.

@ Waki. It's not that the chain is too weak, but that it is more expensive. It also wears out quicker because it is narrower, and it also requires narrower sprockets which also wear out quicker.

Most people agree that 5-8 gears would be ideal for DH, and using a wider chain would allow it to last longer. I don't know. As I said, I'd be happy to stick with 10 speed everything for the sake of cross compatibility, but just have a wider hub, shorter cassette body and fewer cogs.
  • 2 1
 Wakidesigns - Dude - Gotta back up eddstinkyjr, you're wacked

Narrower diameter chains compatible with the increasing number of cassette gears are progressively weaker and wear out faster. I have ridden relentlessly on drivetrains from 6,7,8,9,10 and 11 speed chains. The "spacer between plates"is the bushing and the smaller it is the weaker it is, by definition. Being inherently weaker results from reduced bushing contact area resulting in faster bushing wear that produces torsional flex of the chain, like when you cross-chain gears. The increased sideways slop stresses the pin and causes failure of the plates. Teeth have narrowed along with chains also decreasing durability. What started out as 7.8mm is now 5.5mm resulting in a 30% reduction in the durability of mountain bike drivetrains. This is not progress. The future is unquestionably in belt driven CVT but until then the industry has us by the balls.
  • 2 2
 Man, thank you for your argument about bushing width. That makes tons of sense and I bever thought about it. Your 30% though is about a width decrease and you kind of floated with it into how much weaker is the chain which seems unlikely as there are other factors involved. it might be 50% weaker or 10% but width and strength are unrelated directly. I understand that as all those articles, everyone wants to shout out this so much they keep intheir heads on the sibject. That's why I am expressing myself with a great degree of uncertainty. Because I don't know everything. For the first time I decided to do an experiment and behave as if I knew little (which probably is the state of my knowledge inreality) So calm down. Oh and you were right with me being wacked, I just found that irrelevant in the discussion. Thank for the bushing stuff - cheers!
  • 2 0
 Jaame. If you had a wider chain and cassette. Then you wouldnt need a carbon spacer to keep on.... I dont care if a pro downhill racer is using one on a prototype derailer. If you have a properly tuned derailure with a fat chain and cassette you wouldnt need a goofy chain protector.. But im sure if the sell it for 75 bucks and call it the steve smith special youd be the first in line to buy one
  • 1 0
 Waki - All good but I didn't say width and strength were related. If I had said that, it would not be a defensible statement. I said width and durability were related by a ratio proportional to width because the pin diameter has remained the same. Go wear out a drivetrain.
  • 2 1
 Fuglio, do you have to be so rude?

I was simply saying the carbon spoke protector would be a good addition for the component makers who want to sell their products. I didn't say it was strictly necessary.

I suggest instead of being rude to other posters, you take the time to learn to read and spell properly. Your English is pretty poor. Put your time to more constructive use in future buddy!
  • 1 1
 Oh i was saying its a bad idea. Not strictly necessary? Its useless. Whats the point of it? Do you understand why the prototype needs one?


Once again. Carbon spoke protector!?! Go home


Apollogy accepted. Wink
  • 2 1
 Fuglio... why did you respend, what was the purpose? Be an a-hole 1mo'time? Have you felt any relief or satisfaction after writing that mean text?
  • 1 0
 @ waki

yes
  • 2 2
 Then keep being an a-hole, keep on training, don't give up, when you hit a plateau, be a d*k or a jerk to stay motivated. Be the best a-hole ever! Treat it as if money were no object, one day you might become a stand up comedian and it will pay off. Aim high my son!
  • 2 0
 Thanks Waki!!

I really appreciate your kind words! You have renewed my faith in humanity. ...

Did you do any riding this weekend?
  • 1 2
 No unfortunately not. Me and my 2yr old are sick, wife finishes her PhD and works weekends so I'd stay at home anyways. But I built 4 sand buggies from Lego, did laundry, dinner for next week, got to go sort the garbage. U know stuff to which you'd not normally cover with some electro hipster music. Weather is sht anyways, got to get healthier and hit the home gym again to be ready when spring comes. I also managed to stay off from masturbation. Going for a week long record. It's tough with a wife in advanced preagnancy... But if do it before she comes back from work I'll do it with a numb hand and garlic in my anus. I like the warmth and apparently it helps when you are sick
  • 2 0
 pregnant sex is the best! no reason to stay ohh the wife. plus if the baby grabs your dick it counts as a threesome!

Legos are sweet were making rescue bots over here. but using the big duplo legos the little ones are baned from my house (stepped on one too many)
  • 1 2
 Yea I got a bit of complex there in preagnant sex area. Whatever it is I feel relieved from not talking gears and ratios... Got to do something, they say that masturbation wxists because the devil makes use of idle hands
  • 2 1
 no way masturbation wxists cause it feels good! the devil hates masturbation because it brings you closer to God.
  • 1 1
 No way you can get in touch with higher being while masturbating. It is technicaly impossible as you are focused on the simulation of reality - you must be absolutely present to become one with cosmos.
  • 7 0
 It all depends on where you live and ride. Here in So Cal I love my 3 x 9. On local hilly, steep climbs going up, use the heck out of the granny up front, going down on the big ring. Other rides are all middle ring only. No happy medium with one setup. I dont want to always be changing the chain rings with a 1 x setup, doesn't work for me. Sure you learn how to ride what you have, Think about a 3 x 11, how long of a derailer cage would that take? Guess it could double as a kick stand. My .02
  • 1 0
 definitely. It depends on what type of riding you do and what you want to accomplish.
  • 7 0
 10 and eleven speed drivetrains are just cash grabs for the industry. Give me a 2x8 speed drivetrain that shifts perfectly, wears slowly, and has chains that rarely break. Look what's happening with the chainrings: less chainrings = less problems, let's do the same out back!
  • 4 1
 I wish they had new stuff in 8 speed. I would like to see a 11-40 8 speed.
  • 5 0
 Absolutely! 8 speed was so reliable, you didn't have to adjust your cable or worry about bad shifts for years on end, 9 speed sucks and I expect 10 and 11 are just even worse, constant maintenance and cable adjustments/replacements make riding an unattractive prospect. I ran my old shimano xt 8 speed mech into the ground and never once had to replace the chain or chainrings or adjust the cable tension in 5 years until the mech fell apart, I used to lock the outer ring out for downhill riding too so it became a guard to stop the chain falling into the spokes... I would love to see an 11-38t 8 speed cassette system with a clutch shifter for TRAIL riding (f@ck enduro!), matched with a 32/34t front ring.
I also feel these narrow/wide front chainrings will only work for a year until they wear and then will need replacing, I'd rather stick to an MRP/E-13 chainguide that runs silently and protects your chainring too. Too many mtb components are being designed to only be good for a year nowadays, as companies already plan to release the newer, better version straight after you buy.
  • 7 0
 Adventure riding requires a triple up front.

Triple ring up front means:

1. long, steep, sustained climbs can be ridden at a social pace;
2. middle ring for undulating trail riding;
3. big ring for hammering down fire roads, gravel roads, or getting home on the pavement.

Specialized drivetrains are for people who specialize. One bike to do it all. Forget the quiver. Simplify and ride your bike everywhere.
  • 3 0
 Agreed.

Denisson should've included some of this debate in his recent movie "How to be a mountainbiker". "Pick a drive train and be a dick about it."

I don't really care what drive train I ride as long as I have the gears I need to do what I want. Triple covers the gamut for me. And the outer ring is the perfect bash ring.
  • 1 0
 Ran a XT 3x9 for 3 years on a 41lb Kona Coilair supreme with bombproof wheels and dual crown fork. The granny gears and heavy front end meant I could crawl up just about anything and the big ring allowed me to get some real speed on the downhills. I built a custom chain tensioner from a recumbant bike to deal with the chain drop but chain suck was a recurring problem even with new chain rings as I often rode in wet muddy conditions.
  • 6 0
 well i run 1x9 or 1x10 depending on the bike- ive recently recived a 1x11 chainset yet will be getting rid of it as i don't feel that it is atall needed as ive never had anyproblem with my 1x10/1x9 before...why cant we just get fitter and then the problem solves itself?
  • 9 0
 So why is there no mention at all of 9 speed cassettes? They're still the most prevalent among the people I ride with.
  • 2 0
 I know, I thought that was a bit odd. I'm perfectly happy with my 1 x 9 setup; it's cheep, reliable and does the job just fine, so why can't I say that this is my gear ratio of choice?
  • 6 1
 Yay! More Pinkbike generalizations about how I ride my bike! Woot!

Just because a couple of blokes at Pinkbike suck at shifting or they know blokes that suck at shifting, we need to rethink ring / cassette options?

Choice, preference, and options! Go learn what works for you. :-)
  • 4 0
 I have this argument with other mechanics daily. Are front derailleurs really that hard for people to set up and operate? Especially a two-ring!

1x is nice so I'm not bitching out all the time and riding slow, but if you're towing a trailer full of tools, or using your bike for transportation, a granny ring is the only option. 2x9 is still making my day.
  • 1 0
 That fact that you say "especially a two-ring" is right. It is easy to keep that working well. BUT it also alludes to the issue that while anybody should be able to setup a three-ring, those setups are cranky. Hard to keep them running well without adjustments.
  • 2 0
 Well.... glad to hear I'm not a complete idiot when it comes to FDs haha. My triple FD has been the source of more frustration than anything else on my bike. Sometimes I'll just set the limits so it won't move off the middle ring if I'm in a hurry. Some days even after a half hour of dicking around with the FD I still can't get clean, rub-free shifting on all three rings (two is no problem). I'd love a 2x10 (or even a 1x10 as long as I'm not out of shape), but I just hate the idea of spending a bunch of money to have LESS hardware on my bike.

Honestly I kinda wish I could just run a friction shifter up front and do it all by feel/sight. I have friction up front on my road/touring bike and I love it. I don't really feel like indexing adds much up front.
  • 2 0
 My Race Face Narrow/Wide was only 23 bucks - not that expensive considering you lose almost a full pound in ditching the shifter, excess chainrings, cable, and front derailleur. 1x10 for me, all the way.
  • 1 0
 Interesting, that's a cool idea. Do you have a clutch derailleur on there or is it pretty reliable with the regular non-clutch kind?
  • 1 0
 I purchased a Type 2 RD, but have not installed it yet. I have well over 200 miles with the stock X7 med cage derailleur with no problems, or dropped chains.
  • 5 0
 Clearly, the correct gearing for every rider everywhere is whatever the latest and greatest options that are being marketed by SRAMano. It should have nothing to do with the type of riding we do, or the terrain we ride. Whatever we rode last season is completely obsolete and we are dinosaurs if we ride anything other than newest shiniest more expensive stuff.
  • 4 0
 I think 1x9 is perfectly fine - that's what I have on my Rocky mountain Altitude now.
32 front and 34 to 11 on the rear - I can still go up the steepest hills on our local loop in 1st gear so I thought, I don't need my granny ring anymore and a I only use the big ring on the road.
I find it really nice getting rid of the front mech the extra cable and shifter =)
  • 4 0
 Singlespeed ftw! My only bike at the moment is ss and I have been amazed how easy it is to live with. I still make all but the steepest climbs and can keep up on most DHs too. I just get on it and ride, nothing to worry or think about. With that said I'm in between tall bikes at the moment and I've been running 1x10 for a while. Might switch to 11 speed if I have the money.
  • 4 0
 It's November. I need an internal gearbox that can take an offroad pounding. One bombproof chain, two sprockets. Now when my cassette is full of mud, at best I get four gears anyways....its called "off road" for a reason....but all the equipment is designed for California in summer conditions....I ride a grit filled universe. Number of gears is the least of my concerns. Gimmie performance and durability.
  • 1 0
 Where's waki's efficiency calculator for grit and mud on an exposed drivetrain?
  • 4 0
 2x10 w a bash ring is the only way to go for the truly epic 4-8 hr AM trails (there is no substitute for granny gear when you need it).
For everything else, 1x10 or 1x11 does the trick.
And regarding DH…why not just run 1x9 (like we all have been for years) or if you can find an older shimano cassette 1x8…so what if there are 2-3 cogs that you never use, these cogs guarantee you'll never loose your chain.
  • 1 0
 Those 2-3 cogs require a dished wheel. Dished wheels are inherently weaker. 1x8 cassettes are heavy compared to an xt or x9.
  • 4 1
 I consider that having 2 chainrings adds resiliency and helps the chain alignment, hence I'll stick to that. but not sure about 10 speed cogs, with a road casette of 9 cogs I'm more than ok for 200km in periodic mountain riding. also prices for 1x11 are still insanely expensive.
  • 3 0
 I just went from a 2x10 to a 1x9 (11-32) because I broke my mech and had a new 9sp Saint and cassette sat there not being used.

I like the change. Its less of a worry when riding owt mad. Its much snappier shifting with the short cage. Although there is no granny ring you get used to when to get some momentum up to push steeper sections. I'm sure I will come across a place where I have to push because of gradient and grip at some point soon, and I'm sure I will feel mildly annoyed by it, but its worth it. Plus I tend to stand a lot on climbs anyway.

Also kind of realised how unnecessary 10sp is on the back. Agree with the article about the pointlessness of shifting two gears all the time which I don't seem to do so much now I don't have the range. (always trying to save an extra gear for emergencies)

Think I might build a single speed hardtail from shed parts for christmas!
  • 3 0
 1x10 (36x11-36) for allmountainenduragressivexcing is perfect ...but what I need first is to take 20+ km flat pavement trip to the trails...36t front is really not enough, so I decided to switch to 2x10 (26,40x11-36)... a bit unusual but for now seems fine...
  • 4 1
 I want 11-16 on a 6 speed. I don't care about big changes and having to adjust my cadence. I'd rather have rapid response crisp gearing. Obviously if we are double and triple shifting we are happy with bigger than 12-15% changes. A triple shift means a 36-45% change. Just give me a 20% change and less gears that require less space on my hub, allowing for a wider spread of spokes and giving me more lateral stiffness on my wheels without increasing axle width and putting less strain on the freehub.
  • 2 0
 its a little minimalist, and unusual, but Im quite happy with my 2 speed, SX Trail. Hammerschmidt up front with a singlspeed and chain tensioner in the back, I think moving 11 gears to the rear is stupid, when there exist so many advantages to moving weight to the low center of the bike.
  • 1 0
 Hammerschmidt!!
  • 2 0
 Using a Rohloff speedhub on my hardtail..14 gears and have barely rode my other bike..with 9 gears. Just love the range on the Rohloff, no worries about chain coming off or rear mech getting snagged on something, it's super low maintainence (oil change once a year) only downside is the inital cost, but it will outlast numerous replacement cassettes, rear mechs and chains that in the long run will cost way more than the rohloff.
  • 2 0
 I personally believe people are too extreme in the world in general. If you ride trail and also you're on the road; there's nothing wrong with having either 3 cogs or one 1. I have a single ring 36T with a 9 sp cassette (that's right, NINE sp) and i ride on the road pretty darn good with my friends who have 3 x 10 spd setups. You're not constantly at an all out sprint, that it takes my life to keep up with them. Furthermore it makes you way fitter than the others cause they use the largest cog and pedal pretty lazily. Furthermore on trails there's no difference because they can't use the largest cog on the trails and uphills it's still not a problem since my tallest gear STILL allows me to pedal easily uphill. If riding was meant to be a lazy sport, we'd be playing chess or checkers.

What you all buy into here in simply consumerism. Outside of downhill specific riding where you're an avid racer; why is there a need to segregate all of the riding styles? Maybe for companies to make more money out of pushing specific riding group apparel an equipment at you?! I see it on here regularly. Example: If you don't have a particular crankset your downhill bike it's considered shit (yea i read everyone's comments on threads). It obviously has good parts, just not what the parts the masses considered "golden" and exclusive.....TOTALLY absurd!!!

Fitting in with the crowd and consumerism traps a lot of you out there. Ride what you have, actually enjoy riding and most of all get FIT! Riding wasn't meant to be a walk in a park
  • 5 1
 I want a triple attached to Sram 11 speed attached to a rolhoff 14 speed. 462 gears should get me up most hills though I'll still have to push some of them
  • 7 0
 I LOVE MY GRANNY
  • 1 0
 oh man, so many "mother lover" comments so little forum. lol. Just kidding man

Yeah, I was missing my granny this summer when I came around a trail and my 38t front/36t rear was more than my legs could power to get up the climb.

2x10 next summer!
  • 2 0
 I actually love the direction of 1x drivetrain set ups that the industry is taking. For as long as I can remember ('98ish) I have taken the granny and big rings off my "all mountain" bikes. I did it mostly for descending but also because it matched my riding style - stand up and mash it out instead of spinning. These new wide spread cassettes are great. It allows you to run a bigger chainring so you can have some speed and still be able to climb steep shit. Love it.
  • 3 1
 I was riding 1x9 Shimano system for three years. Now I have SRAM 2x10. What I really want? I want three very low gears for long climbs, then I wany four middle gears for flats, small climbs and for some not steep descents. And I want three very high gears for fast descents. That makes it ten gears, split in three groups, not by 13% steps. I don't think I'll ever need other gears.

And I want a shifter like Saint, which can move from highest gear to the lowest with one finger flick.
  • 2 0
 Agree. This type of breakdown by application would be genius if it could all live on the rear cassette with significant jumps (5-8 teeth) between applications. 42-39-36, 28-24-21-19, 14-12-10. And with a derailer that isn't crazy hard to set up and maintain.

Go wild and run it on a single shift-pod that is dual function. Short trigger for in application, long trigger for between application.

Provisional filed...
  • 1 0
 Yep Yep I agree totally they try and make everything one size fits all and need to specialize more and makes things easier to customize for each individuals riding style
  • 3 1
 I ride a 3x9 xc rig. I'm a damn good climber and i don't see how people ride less. I have tried a 29x34 and there are a couple climbs i can clear on a 24x34 that i can't clean on a 29x34. I'm not slow. In fact one of the climbs i can't clear with the double im 100/1650 on Strava, and the top 50 are all pros, including world cup xc riders and pro tour guys.

Single ring might be ok for a trail bike that only sees dirt, but i often ride the pavement to get to the trail from home or work, then climb up some technical singletrack before bombing baxk down. I'll keep my 24/34/bash on my trail bike.

Hell, even my dh bike has a double 24/36/bash. I love riding by riders pushing up the little incline where trails converge halfway down the mountain at Winterpark, and i have yet to lose a chain with my bash/two step roller setup.
  • 2 0
 Number of gears is always going to be a personal choice depending on the rider, this poll is a little bit like asking whats the optimum colour of clothes for riding in. Also fuck external gears, what i would like to see is affordable internal gears at a reasonable weight, with all the advances in suspension technology and materials, it seems a joke to me that the majority of us are still using exposed external gears which require a lot of maintenance to keep running smoothly.
  • 2 0
 1x9!!! I want to see a super wide ratio drivetrain with a Sram spread from 10-42 but with only 9 gears in total! This would be the ultimate for endure, all-mountain, trail whatever you want to call it riding! 32T-34T up front with a 10-42 9spd in the rear. Everyone I know with 11spd has trouble keeping it perfectly tuned, even 10spd is hard enough to keep running crisp.
  • 2 0
 You say that SRAM ten speed cassette are 11,12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36

and that SHIMANO ten speed cassette are 11,13,15,17,19,21,24,28,32,36

So why is my ten speed SRAM cassette 11,13,15,17,19,22,25,28,32,36 ? Is mine Alien lol because it's different then both of them !
  • 2 0
 This article is poorly done it does not cover all the aspects. Single chain ring up front is the future. For one thing you did not even touch on the subject of the new General Lee with the 40t option for Sram and the 42t for the shimano. I run singles in the front on both my bikes. An option you can do is remove your front shifter and derailleur and leave your granny gear in front and when you have to climb the tough stuff get off your bike and manually drop your chain down to your granny gear then change i back when needed this option works great with the SRAM lock out feature on their type 2 derailleurs. I am personally running General Lee and a SRAM 1070 on one bike with XX1 crankset in the front my other bike has all XX1 components. The biggest draw back is I am only getting around 600 miles out of SRAMs chain rings and chains. Luckly there are compainies making chain rings just like xx1 that are direct mount or you can buy a 104 spider to adapt to the XX1 crankset. Both Wolf and Race face now make 30t small large tooth combo front chain rings that do the same as XX1. If you want to run the best combo and you do not have the legs run a General lee Shimano combo in the back with a 28t XX1 crank set in front and use a long cage derailleur. I run a medium cage non type two XO derailleur with the 40t general lee cassette in the rear and works great. If you run a SRAM type 2 derailleur with any thing larger than a 36 in the back you need to use a long cage medium will not work. I have spent hundreds of dollars on this subject because I have lots of cables up front and I want the lightest set up as possible for my ride.
  • 2 0
 Need? One gear. Plain & simple. If you think you "need" more than one then chances are you're riding down some really smooth, boring pussy c*nt lines, or trying to climb shit that would be faster to get off & walk up anyway.

You wanna talk "absurd" PB? Even more absurd is the fact that derailleurs are still used to get the multi-ratio job done on "off-road" bikes!!!! On par with that absurdity is the fact that so many people not only think they need multiple gears, but multiple f*cking bikes!!!! ROFLMAO WTFF?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still, I'm a big fan of companies like Rohloff & Pinion. A set of 5 or so gears inside or next to the BB, would be a solid step in the right direction. Put your suspension pivot around it & do away with that gimmicky bogus Horst-Link bullshit & trendy VPP horsekife & you'd have one clean, lean, mean & durable package that wouldn't need constant maintenance & replacement. Bad for business maybe, but better for all else in the long run.
  • 1 0
 You must be pretending to be so naive just for attention Ultimate Rider. One gear? There is more to MTB than just dj, street, trials, ss and some skinnys. In fact, you don't even need a mountain for any of those styles. There is a reason why they make all these different types of bikes and gears = for different disciplines. There is a right tool for the job. When your done laughing you should go tell someone like Brett Rheeder to go take his ss bike out next Rampage. I would like one of every style of bike. And all those "gimmicky" technology's you are talking about are awesome. Things got to be tried and worked out to evolve the sport. All those fast flow trails they are making today are because of this "at one time gimmicky" technology. It seems like your not a big fan of people who ride fast DH or are fit enough to plow up a mountain faster than you can walk. I wonder why?
  • 2 0
 A bit like asking who prefers hammers to screwdrivers. In relation to bike set ups, The answer depends on the question and the question is different for everyone based on why they ride, where they ride, what they ride, how they ride, if they ride etc? How about, if you enjoy what you are riding then keep on enjoying it and if not then change it.
  • 1 0
 much rather screw
  • 1 0
 I run 1x9 on my freeride bike and 3x9 on my buddy bike.

in the alps this year I broke the derailleur hanger on some rocky singletrack on a mates lapierre. I finished the ride single speed and the only time I wished I had more gears was on the road section at the end going into a head wind. horses for courses tho right? the more gears you have the more you're likely to use and if you use them then you probably need them.
  • 1 0
 Personally, I think anything over 3x9 is overkill and worry about the durability of these new, thinner chains. Unfortunately, when my drive-train wears out, I'll have limited options other than replacing the whole thing, replacing the bike (OLD at 2003 Intense Spider), or eBay parts. Since it's still in good shape and I just replaced the fork and shock, it would seem a shame to replace the bike just because of age, so I think it would have to be eBay for cassette/chain/rings or a whole new DT. In reality, I should buy a set now while they're still readily available and cheap...well the chain/cassette are. Getting the 9-speed RF rings might be more challenging.
  • 1 0
 For those who say there should be more companies making drivetrain components, BOX is getting into the game. Hopefully it's not long before their stuff is available and to me they seem like a company that would be more into discipline specific components like a low number, small ratio casette for DH. www.pinkbike.com/news/BOX-Components-Prototype-Drivetrain-Disc-Brake-Interbike-2013.html
  • 1 0
 For cross country racing and riding in THE MOUNTAINS, where the terrain pitch changes constantly, 3x is the answer. Blind corner into a granny gear climb? 1 click drop from middle, 2 click drop from big - perfect. If you are in a 2x, there will be 5-7 clicks. That is too much. I have been riding a triple for 20 years. Demo'd a bike during a race (in which I was competing for the series win - so not a throw a way race for me). Found that for long stretches of similar terrain the 2x worked fine. But when it got varied, I was shifting - a lot. Didn't care for it. If anything what really needs to happed is a bigger spread of the front 3 rings so that there is not as much duplication. Running a 22, 32, 44, I still find hills steep enough to make me long for a 20 going up and a 50 going down. Imagine a 20, 30, 50 system with maybe 5-6 gears in back. Steep climbs done in the 20, most riding in the 30, downhill in the 50 - fine tune each of these with the cassette in back.
  • 1 0
 My wife has a 20t granny on one of her bikes, unfortunately it was for a 5-bolt compact crank spider (94mm), which has been obsoleted for years now. 20t to 34t in the back gives a hell of a lot of climbing torque. Big Grin

rpjj.ca/bikes/rocky/crank.jpg
  • 1 0
 Anything over ~42 feels like a rock magnet to me. A 50 isn't very useful if you bend a tooth and can't use it for the rest of the race.
  • 2 1
 My KHS SixFifty 656XC came with a 30 speed drive train, which I used for about a week. Thought it was too much and removed the big ring and replaced it with a bash guard. After a few months of that I swapped out the double ring up front for a 34 tooth single ring, 11x36 out back. That was a bit steep for my liking, so I went to a 32 tooth up front. It works perfectly. Having said that though, when 1x11 systems become priced more reasonably I will definitely go for one. I think having that 42 tooth out back would be nice for the real long grinding climbs.
  • 1 0
 I doubt there is a one solution fits all setup, if so surely a 33 speed setup would be what we were sold in the future. As a rider who spends as much time in the garage wrenching as he does riding I believe in a setup that fits each bike/rider. In my case living in Kent England my 150 trail bike has 1x10 (32 up front 11 . 32 out back). It gets me round a uk trail centre just fine, and as a bonus has completely killed chain slap. My 120 hardtail was fitted with 3x9 and was perfect for longer distances and those exploring rides. Im now building a 140 hardtail and am fitting 2x10 (38.26 up front 11.34 out back). If i had bigger hills I would be looking for a wider range and a few years back when it was mid week pint not mid week gym the granny ring was my friend, so personal fitness needs to be taken into account.

Sales push the bike industry more than application but there are sound options for every rider, and I dont think it takes long to find the right setup in fact go do a typical ride, if you dont use a ring on the front maybe its time to take it off, or maybe (like me) its time to lay of the pints.
  • 2 1
 Want an honest opinion ask someone who is new to Mtbing! My wife started biking with me just this year and I could not tell you how many times I have told her "you have easier gears you know" her reponse "I have found a gear I like and want to stick with it" she will shift her rear gears but refuses to shift the front cogs.
  • 2 0
 Please bring back 9 speed for downhill. I love the 1x11 for trail, but on my dh I'm likely to limit it to 7 anyways and 9 speed has in my expietence been more reliable in the harshest of conditions (shifting better).
  • 1 0
 just make up your own micro cassette? thats what all the wc boys do.
  • 1 0
 That more or less what I do Wink normaly leaving an extra gear that can't be reached as a safety for jumping over to. My real complaint is just that they stopped making high end nine speed which I felt was shifting better on a DH bike
  • 1 0
 For dh to be honest I must admit that I only really use the 11 tooth cog. I have just one from a wide ratio 9 speed cassette to a small ratio 10 spd cassette and I now use then much more. This is also down to the crisp shifting of shimano saint, which allows you to shift across all ten cogs in 2seconds. I found it so much faster!
  • 1 0
 I have a custom 1 x 6 made with 10spd gear built on a SS hope hub that just happens to be able to fit 6-7 cogs. When you know exactly what gears you need to ride the given terrain it is better to have only what you need. Of course this isn't practice if you're on one do it all bike that needs to be more versatile
  • 1 0
 For general trail riding 1x10 is fine. I understand the 0.13 ratio thing, but it would be nice if there was a bail out gear. So you have the top 9 speed being a 11-32 or 11-34 and then a larger 40t last gear, I don't mind even if it doesn't shift into that gear sweetly as it's not a mid momentum keeping gear, because coming from a 2x9 setup you do sometimes towards the end of the day get 2/3rds of the way up the climb and your legs are just dying and so you think f**k it, sit down and bash into the granny gear. I've just gone to 1x10 11-36 on my AM bike and I'm pretty sure I'll miss that bail out gear. However having no front derailleur to make noise, be a pain to setup will be a blessing, and with the clutch it means I don't need a chain guide to catch mud and carefully insert the stuff into my pissing chain for me to clean later.

For DH I don't mind having a 9 speed setup - the extra gears are useful when you're not on the down or making your way across the top of the hill to the start of a run/heading back to the chalet after a days riding. The thing that upsets my nunchucks is the fact I have to go to 10speed if I want a clutched rear derailleur. A clutch rear derailleur makes sense for DH more than any other type of riding. I have tried DH/road cassettes on my DH bike but I end up running a standard cassette because the jumps between each gear on a DH cassette is pointless so you end up rapid firing through 5 cogs when 2 would have been much faster. I would happily run a 7 speed, but I do want to keep commonality between my bikes over spending X11 money for a DH specific drivetrain. Rather spend some of that money on a better quality cassette.
  • 1 0
 I've been riding a 38T up front with a 10-speed Sram 11-36t cassette. For most situations in the relatively flat city it is fine, only on the down hill or steep hills do I desier for a wider gear range. On the trails; however, I found the 38t would burn me in spots where the trail turned steep.
My conclusion is; next spring I will go back to 2x10. For the amount you actually would have to switch up front, it's not that big of a bother. Personally, I have not tried, so hypocritically speaking, 11 gears is a lot to shift out back, I mean, my 10-speed already seems on the limit of hassle (I've spent most of my life on a 3x9).

Ultimately I say, to each their own. But what a fun conversation to have, being a total gear head Smile

RIDE ON MY FELLOW BIKERS!!!!!!!!!!! Hope our trails meet and happy cycling!
You're the best people in the world!
  • 1 0
 Is the micros drive even avaliable to dh riders yet.

Sam and brendog ran it for a season or 2 on the demo. What's stopping it trickling down to us? I want one and I want it now.

Plus the extra half inch clearance it gives at the BB is a massive plus too.

So far here's what I understand.
Micro uses more chain wrap which is better but it also means faster wearing. It requires a small 7tooth cog and finally it requires a certain hub I believe.

But they are the future of dh gearing possibly with the exceptions of the internal that zerode use. But for any none internal gear its the only logical step.
  • 1 0
 It's not just old-school cyclists that want more gears, and closer spaces from gear to gear. Look at cars for instance. In the beginning there were 2 speeds, then 3, now it isn't uncommon to see 8 or 9 on regular every day cars.
  • 1 0
 On the dh bike 1st is only ever used for cruising back to the van. On super tight loamy tracks just sprinting between 2 corners of maybe 4 pedal strokes apart i might use 3rd but generally the bikes normally in 5th or higher. I think its a 25t easiest gear Its got far too may gears. when i steal dads nomad which runs a 32 up front with a much easier gearing out back. The main problem i have is that in the harder gears the mech is pulled almost to closed and there is too much chain to rattle about. Tbh its kind of annoying.
  • 1 0
 I would like to see more cassette and chainring options so that we can mix and match to suit. I drop on to my granny several times on each ride and I need those low gears to get my 55 year old ass up the steep ones. What I don't need is a gear bigger than 32/14. Give me a 14-42 cassette. Never going to happen though because the cassette makers only seem to listen to racers who want that 11 and now 10 tooth ring. Most people don't race and don' need a cassette designed for racing. I met a guy in Moab who was from some place in Colorado I believe. He had only the 3 largest gigs on his cassette and removed the rest. He told me that was all he ever used so he didn't see a reason to keep the rest.
  • 1 0
 it goes without saying that if you're an aggressive rider (in the least) that the rear derailleur is the biggest liability on your bike in terms of the part that will break first and easiest...I'm all for anything that isn't some $$$$$$$$$$ internal gear box but gets rid of the rear D necessity.
  • 1 0
 I don't use that many gears. I use the lowest 3 on the cassette most often with either middle or granny up front on the uphills then a middle gear, 5th, usually on the downs with the middle ring (once I spin out of that, I'm usually good) and I use the 8th or 9th tallest gear with middle ring on the flats or trails like Porcupine Rim (the pedally bits). That's what, 6 gears out back, total?

The only benefit of having gone to 9sp from 8sp is the 34T granny, with 10sp, the only real benefit is the 36T. My 8sp chains lasted longer than the 9sp chains do. 10sp is worse, still.

The whole notion of evenly spaced gears needs to be re-evaluated. What we need is some climbing gears, some mid-range gears for descending technical stuff and some gears for getting to/from trail or pedaling through the boring, flat parts of trails. A wide range, limited in gearing internally geared option is what I want. Run that with a single speed chain or a belt.

_MK
  • 1 0
 Dual ring up front to tackle the real steep climbs on Trail, with 7,8,9 on the back. Otherwise the chain gets too loose on 1x11 (IMHO). For DH, I'd like to actually singlespeed my DH to BMX type tension of chain - I really dont think gears are useful for all out DH racing... Perhaps use a dual ring on the front only with a singlespeed and tensioner on the back? I rarely bother with gears, I just break less, and I always end up in the wrong bloody gear anyway haha
  • 1 0
 i think it really comes down to what style of trails you're riding and what you have to do to get there. if i only rode lift accessed bike parks and stuff i can get a truck up to, no way i'd ever want a second ring. but on the shore, where you have to push up to a decent amount of the trails, it would be nicer to have a more pedally bike with a couple rings in the front. don't think i'd ever use three rings in the front though.
  • 1 0
 This poll is just very much like debating wheel sizes. A dirt jump/park bike has completely different demands than a cross country race bike would... To say which is best would make the idea invalid. Now to say which option is most VERSATILE... I wouldn't mind having a good discussion on that. Smile
  • 2 0
 You hit the nail on the head!

As in Matt Denisson's recent movie "How to be a Mountain Biker", some of this could've been included along side the wheel size part of the movie, "Pick a drive train and be a dick about it."
  • 1 1
 I believe you mean "DON'T be a dick about it?" haha
  • 2 0
 I miss 8 speed cassettes for my dh rig. Always felt like i simply had to shift more with no advantage, once 9 and 10 became standard for high end. I think 6-8 is ideal for dh.
  • 1 0
 -for dh, we need less gears with a bigger step in between; but without the flimsy 10 speed chain !!

-for enduro (or hard all mountain) I have a 1x9 setup (34-11 cassette), with 32 chainring. It's fine for climbing but shit for going down, if the track is gnarly it's alright but if it's fast I spin out pretty quickly (really annoying). 34 chainring wouldn't be enough for going up (I live in the alps and it can get pretty streep and long).
I am going to buy a 34 t chainring with 11-36 cassette (so new chain and derailleur time...). 34 chainring and 36 out back is pretty much the same ratio as 32chainring*34... But will have the 34*11 (I hope it will be enough).

Never going back to 2x up front ! it's the worst, chain keeps coming off even with tensioner and front shifting isn't as good as in the back and front derailleurs are a pain !

last but not least, why not a gearbox ??? (no chain coming off, no derailleur to get hit, as many gears as you like... win win situation ! someone just needs to invent a proper mtb specific gearbox !)
  • 2 1
 HEY SHIMANO, HEY SRAM
i would love to have about 4 or 5 gears on my dh bike with which i can be absolutely sure, that the gear directly changes when i shift not later and not in rough terrain by itself.

i think if you need about 30 gears youre not hard enough...... its just heavy and complicated.... better train your legs properly to get along with maximum 11 gears... ( i think costumers with weak legs are the reason for the 3x10! .... nothing else... )

2 chainrings in front should be the absolute maximum.

for every type of riding (exept if u want to win a race) u should have as less gears as possible with ur legs....

most people should train more before they buy expensive bikes!
  • 1 0
 This poll is as stupid as which is the best wheel size! The choice of gears should be based on your terrain and type of riding, among other things. It's another marketing strategy to make more profit and keep increasing the price of new crappy parts! I wonder what would happen to all this wallet-sucker companies if we all agree on not buying their expensive sh!t!
  • 1 0
 I run a 1x10 on my hardtail, 11-36 with a 32t as I'm not the fittest and there are some steep climbs on routes I take. I currently run a 2x9 on my full sus though, 11-34 with 22t & 36t. I really want to go 1x on that though but with a 32t I'd spin out on the downs, anything bigger I'd really struggle on the ups. The 1x11 would suite me perfectly, but I prefer Shimano over Sram and I don't have £1k for a new drivetrain!
  • 1 0
 My bike has 2x10 and a Gamut. Works awesome, never dropped my chain once, but... I have used the small ring maybe once, when I was totally exhausted on a long ride. And to be honest, at those speed's with that little energy, you may as well walk..

My point is, I think 1x10 (or1x11 if your rich or when prices drop) is fine. I think I can count on my hand and feet the amount of times I have used a granny ring in the last 20 years! Seriously, except tarmac, those ratios are so low, that traction is the problem in the end.
  • 1 1
 And why are people bitching that 10 gears is too much for DH? It's not like it's going to hinder you having a few more! As long as you have the ratios you need, having a few extra you don't won't cause any issues. Of course, no harm in a specific 5 speed system either I suppose, just quit whining!
  • 1 0
 24x24 + 24x28 + 24x32 + 24x36 to go on top of this f***ing steep mountain (Thats why xx1 don't apply for me)
36x15 + 36x17 + 36x19 to ride down, if I need to go faster by pedaling then the track is probably not that interesting...
  • 1 0
 a ten speed has worked perfectly fine for me for the 40 years of my life. no need to "reinvent the wheel" as they say. besides most of my saddle time is going downhill. i don't believe in peddling upward.it turns the bike into an unnecessary exercise and a waiste of energy. I get off and walk and for the short little uphill runs , if momentum doesn't carry me over then ill get off and walk that too.
  • 1 0
 Single ring is the one ring to rule them all, if you get to ride XX1 or X01 you'd never go back!

People regardless of number of front rings have always run poor gearing options usually what came on the bike.
Much more can be had for your riding and area if you experiment with ring sizes!
But simplicity reliability and true MTB setup XX1 has brought true MTB gearing to riding, a year on still to drop a chain, replacing front XX1 ring with a Wolf Tooth components ring to try its reliability!

I'd say though now X01 is available buy the X01 Transmission choose your own cranks as now many narrow wide tooth options available, not with XX1 due to the offset spider, it can be replaced, or as Wolf Tooth have done they remove the spider and bolt straight to the crank for even lighter stiffer setup, hopefully more durable, though cant complain about a year out of my XX1 ring!

My general riding is 32t for Enduro 34t maybe even 36t so I can stay in the middle out back more and not have to change gears so much!

DH, Specialised Sram option def way to go, 7spds is all you need, 10/11 for DH is BS marketing!

Single Ring!!

They're can be only ONE..
  • 1 0
 I only use a handful of gears on my XC bike, but they are pretty spread out. For a full on hill slugfest with a road ride back to my house I could probably survive with my highest and lowest gear off my triple and any 3 across the middle. It's nice to have small steps for keeping an even cadence, but it's hardly important.

I don't really see what the need for discussion is, everyone should just ride whatever they want and there's no need to justify their choices any further than i ride it because |I like it.
  • 1 0
 I got to the second photo before scrolling back up to see if RC wrote the article. Who the F cares what gearing we are using. If you are riding AM and have strong legs, not too steep of a climb go with 1x10 or 1x11 if your rear hub can accommodate 11sp. Lots of places I ride where you need that second front chainring or you are pushing. That's fine, but I like to ride as much as I can and only push when my legs/lungs give out. That would mean pushing a lot sooner as with 1x11 I would be forced to jump to the 42 earlier than I would like on a clmb and then start pushing when things got steeper. Run a smaller front ring you say? Then I'm forced to coast instead of pedal when things get fast on a downhill or flat open section since I'd spin out the gearing. I won't even get into the cost of 11sp and would go 1x10 if my climbs weren't so steep.

Ask the California guys who came up to ride the TR3 last year. They were complaining about how steep things were compared to their local trails in California and asked if it was a bike race or a hike race. I just dropped it in my 22T granny gear and smiled as I pedaled past while they pushed. Long story short, pick what suits your local terrain and go ride.
  • 1 0
 On my downhill bike I have a 36 tooth up front, and an 11-23 10 speed in the rear. I think the 11-23 is perfect because 8 out of the 10 gears increase in size by a single tooth, giving the option for the perfect gear for any point on a descent, which is crucial when racing. on a descent you'll never go slow enough to have to use the 23 tooth cog anyway, I spend most of my time in the smaller half of the cassette anyway, Sure you can't pedal up stuff very easily, but thats what my trail bike is for.
  • 1 0
 at the end of the day it's all about what type of riding you do. My buddys and myself ride trail/enduro ha ha and find 10 speed enough. then again if I was to ride XC race I'd want triple rings up front (shimano) whereas I'd only run Sram for all other .
  • 1 0
 I will be riding 1x9 with a 32 narrow wide, and a 11-32 cassette for winter only! I ride on the street too much to get rid of my 3x9, and as for a 10 speed, it is far too weak(I would break even 8 speed chains when I raced BMX). 3x9 will rule until the gearbox becomes mainstream(and affordable).
  • 1 0
 Anyone know what the widest range for a 10speed cassette is? the 11 speed is too expensive and I'd like to drop the front D from my bottlerocket. because of chainline I never use the smaller cogs when i'm in the smaller ring and never use the bigger cogs when i'm in the big ring. its probably more of a problem with my setup than anything, but I still wouldn't mind going to a 1x10. Less to maintain and one less cable on my bars

edit: nevermind, went to SRAMs site and they only have 11-36. Shimano looks like its the same with them.
  • 1 0
 Yes, you should be able to mix the comps. I usually use XT hardware (Shifters/deraileurs/cables) with a SRAM cassette and chain, Race-Face cranks and rings. BTW, you shouldn't be running small gears against small or big against big, you'll sheer the teeth on your cassette and rings lowering the lifetime of your drivetrain. This is by design, and how you should be doing it, so good on you. Big Grin Too many people, some experienced riders, have terrible shifting habits.
  • 1 0
 seems like all the more reason to go 1x10. I'm not using those combos anyway and i'm pretty much using 10 gears... Thanks fr the response.
  • 1 0
 My 4X bike has 4 (chainline optimised), the FR machine has 9, although I consider a 9-speed 11-34 minus the 26-30-34, so 6-speed, to be perfect on that bike. If I would be racing, it would have been converted already but for leisure only replacing the stock 11-25 is not high on the priority list...

These bikes are more or less purpose build for a narrow usage range.... The trail bike is more complicated, local XC (fast park-like conditions) including a lot of tarmac to get there and get home again, more challenging terrain sometimes in the weekend (like Houffalize), maybe quite fast, maybe very technical... Considering my fitness level is not coping with 'whatever setup' I bring, I need to either swap constantly chainrings (considering I know what to expect which is often not the case) or have a setup that covers it all...

Single ring setups have their advantages when you know what to expect and are willing to change the bike for the circumstances, if you just do not want to bother, take the bike and ride whatever, it is hard to get around setups that give you the equivalent of 14~16 wide spread ratios.
  • 1 0
 AM-Enduro bike: 1x9, 32 front, 11-32 rear cassette (SLX, XT, KMC) and I'm just fine with this and i don't want to spend money for upgrades!

XC 29" (yes i'm gay): 2x10, 22-36 front, 11-32 rear cassette (x7, x9 type 2, KMC) and i won't ever ever ever ever put the single chain ring in the front!!!!! I take care of my life and i don't want to die uphill

road-cx-commutee bike: 3x10, 24-32-44 front, 11-25 rear cassette (XT, x7, x9, Campagnolo Xenon Cassette, KMC)
  • 1 0
 I want 6 speed but the over a 10-42 tooth range or wider. No front mech, nice fat chain that lasts for ages and crisp gear shifts that don't jump around. 10-14-20-26-34-42? for AM then a tighter smaller cassette for DH, using the same standard.

Leave all the prissy 11 speed super light chains, fussy shifting and clanking 27-30 speed front mech nonsense for XC.
  • 1 0
 I run a single ring setup on all my bikes that aren't single speed. On my dh bike I run a 36 front ring and a 7 speed custom cassette. On my trail bike I use a 38t front and a 10spd rear cassette 11-36 simplicity is the way to go!
  • 1 0
 I use a 2x setup with a chain roller guide for two main reasons; a good range of gears and no dropped chains. I used to run a 3x setup but quickly switched when I started to ride more gnarly terrain cause I kept dropping too many chains!
  • 1 0
 I ran 2x from about 2004 to 2010, gripshift front, trigger rear, 22t,32t with 11-34t. I would say close to 50% of my shifts were in the front ( about a 45% jump). I was happy other then the odd chain jamming up. Over time my bikes got close to 10lbs lighter with similar style builds, I got stronger and I dropped the 22t and am now 32t with 11-34 out back and double shift mostly everything (about 36% jumps). I think idealy I would like a 11,14,18,23,29,37 + maybe a 9 or 44 if space allows it with good derailur clearances/ good sized bearings in freehub and hub. That is 6 gears (maybe 7)with about 27% jumps, roughly a shift and a half. Sounds perfect to me. Would allow better chainline for single ring, adjustable chainline and/or wider hub flages. Pair that up with a w/n 34t ring, minimalist top guide and clutch derailur and I think that would be sweet. Id even live with slightly clunky shifting, I can plan shifts and let up a bit easily enough. Plus moar lighter thats the important part right???? 1!!!!??
  • 1 0
 "the right gear ratios"....I don't think there is such thing as terrain conditions are very different between one and other, so what would seem right for one might not be the best for others. I would say two - ring drivetrain would be ok for all mountain riding but three wouldn't hurt anyone, it would just give you more options and a couple of grams more...
  • 1 0
 If you have a collection of task specific bikes it makes sense to limit the gearing, simplifying the drive train and in turn creating a smother shifting ride. However I tend to use my trail bike on a variety of trails with varying technical demands and elevations gains making my former 1x9 (34, 11 x 36) setup limiting on some rides. This season I changed to 2x10 (38, 29 front with an 11 x 36 cassette) with great results
  • 1 0
 Agreed with many others: There is no one answer for every rider.

It's not the number of gears that's important, it's having the right gearing for you. Where and what you ride will determine the range you need. How you ride will determine the spacing you want. I've been running a 2X8 double ring and bash guard set up for about 15 years to clear logs and bedrock on local singletrack. I don't ride enough fast dirt roads to need a triple.
  • 1 0
 I have been testing both 1x9 and 1x10 set ups using a custom 41 tooth rear cog and removing the 4th cog on the cassette.

We run 32T front and 11-41 in the rear.

Not much we cant attack. Wish we had a little more top end but it is a trade off. the 41 is a little to tight on the derailuer so a 40 would be more ideal. I can tell you the 1x9 works the best and has the best performance and durability and lowest cost....

The drivetrain manufacturers could offer a 11-40 9sp cassette and make a lot of people happy but they wont because it make it almost impossible to get people to shell out the $1500 upgrade to xx1 or x01 systems.

Oh did I mention this was only a $50 upgrade......1x9 or 1x10......
  • 1 0
 the 11 gear single ring option is perfect for me, because i mostly ride trails and when i'm on the pavement, i don't push it that hard.
But for a wider range, you can just put 2 or 3 rings in the front. Sram should offer this custom option for those who really like to shift alot Smile
  • 1 0
 Forget mechs with their dodgy chain lines, fragile gearing systems, compromised range, compromised shifting, regular maintenance(chains running straight last several times longer, so do sprockets, and there's sweet FA cable stretch as your not ramming a mech into another sprocket under load with a gearbox)get a gearbox bike, you won't regret it. Centralized weight, less unsprung weight,and the Effigear is pretty much the same weight as a derailleur drivetrain, so there's only benefits. Better ground clearance and shift anytime in a tenth of the time, multiple gears too.
GEARBOX for the win.
Stick that in your Poll.
  • 1 0
 I'm riding 1*10 on a 32 front 10-36 out back, I do struggle on the steep stuff but I like only having one ring up front so happy to compromise - reckon 2*10 would be best though
  • 2 0
 Quote: " If all you do is ride dirt, that can be a wonderful thing." Smile

If all you do is ride dirt, you won´t read this article ^^
  • 2 0
 you don't check pinkbike on the climbs? what do you do!?
  • 1 0
 I still ride the ancient 3x9 on my gary fisher cake that I have had for a few years now and it works just fine. but hopefully im upgrading bikes soon but who knows since I live the broke college student life
  • 1 0
 Went from something ridiculous like 21 gears. Now using just 10. 32t with a 11-36. Its bliss, can get up all climbs and no need to go faster down the trail unless you're racing. However wider spacing might be better.
  • 1 0
 As mentioned further up the list, why isn't anyone making i lighter version of Pinon's P1:18 but with same total ratio on 8-ich speeds???
pinion.eu/en/discover-pinion/pinion-p1-18

// Lars the Swede ;D
  • 1 0
 all you need is 10 (11-36) at the back with a short cage clutched mech and a raceface narrow wide chainring (34) and the you will be fine and you will save so much money!! Thats what i have and it works great!
  • 1 1
 I plan on rocking SRAM 9 speed until they quit making it.
A 24/36 up front matched with a shi(t)mano 12-36 (cause SRAM doesn't make one) cassette in the rear.
Very good gear spread for 9 speed.

Check it out:
www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=24,36&RZ=12,14,16,18,21,24,28,32,36&GR=DERS&TF=85&UF=2126&SL=2.75
  • 2 0
 Running raceface Narrow Wide 34T up front and 10 speed 11-36. No chainguide on my Specialized Enduro, even trough Dh tracks I had no chain falls yet. It's perfect.
  • 1 0
 I run a the 30T up front for the same rear cassette - I LOVE that chainring.
  • 1 0
 I'm rocking the 1x10 setup right now, but def. try out the
Xx/1 or Xo/1 setup once it comes down in price
Usually have no issues with keeping up with other riders
In fact I'm always pretty much in front
  • 3 0
 I personally like 2 speeds up front for a quick change when I hit a steep section of trail or for long climbs.
  • 1 0
 I'd like to see a 10-38t cassette in 10 or 11 speed. I don't see the need for a 42t rear sprocket, I have a 36t chainring and largest sprocket and that's just about enough, a 38t out back would be plenty.
  • 2 0
 I can't let go of my 3x chainring setup for some reason...I love having the middle ring and popping down real quick, or back up...
  • 1 0
 see what your ratio is, if you have a 32 out back, and 22-32-42 up front, try a 34 or 36 out back with a 28-40 up front. (just a thought) but "playing" around with gear ratios can get pricey.
  • 1 0
 Yeah... I just like how I can be going as I were in the middle up front, and with one click pop down the small chainring to get a lower gear when needed (a good sized step down)...maybe this will work fine for 2x too. I demoed 2x before and it wasn't quite how I wanted it...but maybe I just need more time with it.
  • 1 0
 No mention of crank arm length? I think this would also play a factor to the debate on single front rings, 32t vs 34, 38, etc

I have 175mm arms on my bike with a 38t ring and 11-36 out back.

Comments?
  • 1 0
 What length do you have to go to to make a big enough difference in torque? And when you get to that length do you now have interference problems, with the ground?

I ride 175mm cranks too. 185 [I don't know if that exists] is only 5.7% longer. Shorter, the same math again, the 175 is only 2.9% longer than the 170. Roadies might notice these differences in that their legs are travelling less, but us, other than interference I don't think I'd notice the difference.
  • 1 0
 That's a great point about interference. I have a Specialized and they are notorious for having a low bottom bracket. In the world of bikes, mm and grams make differences. If I had crank arms handy different lengths, I would try out a different length and report on the outcome/findings. I notice with the 175 and platform pedals, I scrub when taking aggressive corners if I try to pedal through the corner, the inside pedal always hits, and sometimes wipes me out.
  • 1 1
 I'm down for a 2x on most of the riding i do there are a lot of steep grinding climbs that require everything I have in lower ranges. However 1x does make a lot of sense on terrain with more gradual /less techy ups. But right now i'm broke so i'll just look at all the shiny new parts...
  • 1 0
 No single gear setup is going to be perfect for everyone. It's sad that a lot of companies are pushing the single ring drivetrain so heavily because having a 2x10 is definitely still a nice setup for a lot of areas.
  • 1 0
 I really just want two gears. One for trail and another for the commute to the trail. Currently I have a 32/16 for the trail. It's ok for the road, but something higher would be better.
  • 1 0
 What about higher high gears for people who are not afraid of doing their squats and lunges. I hate loosing pedal resistance and having to wait for gravity to gain speed. We're not skiing.
  • 1 0
 I still think a 10-44 cassette would be ideal for Sram's 11spd system. That and a 30 or 32t ring in the front. 10-42 is a bit too limited IMO and i say 44 because it's supposedly already supported by current deraileurs.
  • 2 0
 Meanwhile back on the ranch, XX1 covers most bases for 'normal' trail riding. Just choose a front chainring too match your fitness and/or terrain, job jobbed.
  • 3 0
 only need one gear the fastest one!!
  • 2 0
 I need 30 gears because cross country is the best and downhill sucks donkey balls
  • 1 0
 I use 5 gears. 2 for climbing, 2 for flat and undulating trails, and 1 flat out. 1x10 with 11x36 in the back is ALMOST perfect.
  • 2 0
 If you only use 5, how is a 1x10 perfect? Seems a waste of money and weight.
A 1x5 should be all you nee if you really feel you only need 5 gears.
  • 2 1
 Shimano 11-30, eight speed casette and T38 or T37 in front, for a full suspension multipurpose mtb bike. Thanks for attention.
  • 2 0
 8 speed is class, been using it since I can remember. mix of stxrc and xtr does the job nicely
  • 1 0
 Same here on the 8spd. My gear bike is 1x8 36 chainring and 11-32 cassette.
  • 1 0
 2 x 8 I run with a bashguard, it's enough for me, run a 38 and a 28 up front. Could see myself going in for the single ring up front to try it out though
  • 2 0
 3 gears. climbing, flats with speed and balls-out-cant-get-enough-gear downhill.
  • 1 0
 here in the uk... biggest we have is nevis.. which is nothing but a dirt mound a mole has dug up so single speed is only needed here
  • 1 0
 The poll needs less options for it to truly condense and process the info. Oh wait, I forgot that the polls exist simply to increase ad traffic.
  • 3 0
 1x9 is plenty for every type of riding
  • 2 0
 Everyone should spend some time on a rigid Single speed to help them appreciate the joy of any gear or suspension option.
  • 2 0
 I would have voted but they didn't give an option for 9 gears... Oh well. Guess we'll need a new poll.
  • 1 0
 XC/AM The more options the better. DH six or seven gears will do.
The poll suggest that people like ten cogs vs eleven. Probably due to cost.
  • 1 0
 I need about 6 gears over 450% range to cover everything.

No need for roadie narrow gaps. If you have time to establish cadence - your trails suck.
  • 3 0
 True that! Even on the climbs you shouldn't be able to establish cadence.
  • 1 0
 Always broke up cogs and made my own gear clusters. first 3 for speed related activities second 2 for trials related activities and last 4 for getting up hills n such.
  • 1 0
 After seeing that little 7 speed on the demo my v10 will be getting one shortly looks awsome
  • 3 0
 Gearbox
  • 1 0
 Yeah where's that Poll option Scam/Shitmano sponsored Pink Bike?
  • 1 0
 i rode on the Großglockner with my 2x7 today...
i think if you are not pro you dont need that many gears.
  • 1 0
 32t front and 6 gears singel speed hub on hardtail- 34 t and 8 gears and my lapierre spicy
  • 2 2
 1x10, NarrowWide chainring, wide ratio cassette (11-42) is for me the way to go. Light, reliable, wide ratio, silent ...
www.pinkbike.com/photo/10277919
  • 2 0
 I have a 2x10, barely go down to 1. Might aswell take it off...
  • 1 0
 you should split your poll with regards to riding category. this makes no sense the way it's laid out...
  • 1 0
 36/22 & 11/32 9 speed cassette on my Enduro bike. Anyway I miss my old XT 46T on the front!
  • 1 0
 I would like 2x6 You get good dish on the rear and that ability to dump for short climbs or jump for the booter
  • 1 0
 Let's even the field, no gears! Make em all push bikes! Just put pegs on the bikes for the downhill stuff!
  • 1 0
 Make a lighter hammerschmmidt and i will buy it! It would be Great to have one weighting around 1kg!
  • 1 0
 I agree - carbon hammerschmidt please. And try and eliminate the whizzing noise in Overdrive.
  • 1 0
 They are keeping Hammerschmidt evolution dormant. When everybody is fully equipped with 11 speed xx1, x01 (and the future x9 and x7 11speed) and they have nothing else to sell, they will come up with a really light Hammerschmidt and start telling everybody this is the way to go. We just need to be something like 5 years on the mountain bike scene to realize how things are done. I mean, if there was a light hammerschmidt, or a shimano verson of it, with a really simple and small shifter who needed 11 gears at the rear?
Come on Shimano just do it!!
  • 1 0
 Singlespeed here, hardtail and full-suss (6" back & front). 34t up front, 19t on the back.
  • 1 0
 10 it would seem as the XX1 is GARBAGE!!! Maybe Shimano can get it right but Sram sure didn't.
  • 2 0
 Stop being so picky and RIDE YOUR GOD DAMN BIKE !
  • 1 0
 Sealed drives WHY can you not buy it?ITS NOT because it cant be done or would not work better SO WHY?
  • 2 0
 Pink bike was better when you worked at mountain bike action.
  • 1 0
 If you want a 32 up front and a 10 speed out back you are clearly not biking up any "mountains"
  • 2 0
 1x9 still fine
  • 3 2
 How many gears? At least one more than I have.
  • 3 2
 Xx1 really is awsome. I would never go back
  • 1 0
 Dirt jumping only need one gear f25. 10,11 or 9 tooth on the rear for me.
  • 3 0
 That's 3 gears Wink
  • 1 0
 f32 r14
  • 1 0
 Asking as I have a ratio above 2.0 I'm happy
  • 1 1
 New rule: Ride how many gears you like - no one can save you from yourself!
  • 2 1
 1x9. 11-32x32. Done and done.
  • 1 0
 I'm waiting for life on wheels to see how many gears I need
  • 1 0
 1x5 is all my demo8 needs.
  • 2 1
 Imagin how small the chain links would have to be to have a 5 tooth cog?
  • 1 1
 Fixie's bitch. f*ck gears. What's that? You love fixie's too? Come ere, I wanna bum ya
  • 1 0
 1 x 10. 36 T front, 11-36 rear. East coast trail riding.
  • 3 2
 dont agree w/ waki much, but he is dead-on here. another lame poll...
  • 5 1
 Waki is fountain of knowledge mate! He knows a lot and his opinions have changed mine due to how he states them. Also some of us like polls because it allows us to see what the public think about stuff and not just journalists and pros all the time.
  • 2 0
 yes, a lot of interesting perspectives here. Good discussion.
  • 1 0
 pros know how to do it youre not wrong if u follow them
  • 1 0
 No. However pros often don't have a lot of knowledge of other equipedment because they only use one thing cos that's what their sponsors supply. I want a review from someone who has tried a lot and been able to really nit pick at every detail. Journalists provide this however I also like to hear what people who don't necasserely ride their bikes everyday have to say about stuff.
  • 1 0
 Polls are very important for sponsors of the Pinkbike.com.

It give them not only a broad view, a big picture, of the statistical population opinion (of their potential consumers), but also the detailed information about the preferences of each of us.

This information is priceless, and in my opinion it is worse than http-cookies.
  • 1 0
 @lukachadwick

youre right, some just use the sponsor stuff and thats it. but some really know what they want and are poular enough to choose their sponsors or get signature stuff made just how they want it.
-bearclaw grips
-sam hill saddle, 135mm rear on demo, special cassette, pedals
-fabien barels mondraker summum was also really special
-gees new gt
-bulldog is still using burgtec pedals
-i think athertons were using 9speed last year
- ...

i respect the pro opinion much more than the opinion of journalists. (most) jounalists no1 subject is writing not riding
  • 1 0
 To get stuff to write about, you need to have tested the kit. So you need to have given it a lot of hard riding. As for pros, there are very few people who get to choose who they are sponsored by, but I do respect that a lot of kit is specially designed for them. But if you take Steve peat for example, he rode shimano dx pedals for years until he one day tries cb mallets and he has stuck with those since. If he hadn't of on the off chance, tried the different options in the market, he may well still be riding with dx's and think they are the best. So pro opinion is not always as good as a journalists.
  • 1 0
 jeah Big Grin
steve peat is one of the guys which stay their stuff true Big Grin
just look at his stem
  • 1 0
 41x17t, gets me around the BMX track just fine..
  • 2 0
 I need 6.
  • 1 0
 Hamerschmit on a single speed!
  • 1 0
 An easy one and a hard one.
  • 1 0
 Why is this a offer to buy me some :-)
  • 1 0
 all i need is the gear i'm in at the moment Wink
  • 1 0
 Where the hell is my 9 speed option?
  • 1 0
 I ONLY NEED 1, MAX SPEED.
  • 1 0
 Just go fast and keep pedalling,,,the more the merrier...The End.
  • 1 0
 Doesn't this make you wanna ride a single speed?
  • 1 0
 XX1.
  • 1 0
 "3hunna" - chief keef
  • 1 0
 1X9 but there is no nine
  • 1 0
 9 does the job for me
  • 1 3
 This is what we us one .
  • 4 0
 I couldn't agree more.
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