Red Bull Rampage 2012 - Binggeli vs Oakley Sender

 KHS = Killed His Shock

 Permission to land...

 Permission granted.

 Negative ghost rider the pattern is full.

 racer 303 is right- that was so deep in that landing!

 what.. how can you negative prop him for that!!! fail

 Holy f*ck thats huge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 i think i would blackout in mid air jumping that

 I wanna see Pilgrim hit it seeing as he is riding a SS bike with sing crowns!

 i would like to see that too... and maybe he is crazy enough to pull a frontflip...

 or a three something else

 Pilgrim is riding the FR Soda, not the slope.

 thats a big step down!

 Even if it is the FR version it's still not as big as some bikes that other guys are riding!

 Exactly what I thought. We just might stop hearing 650b are not strong enough and not meant to leave the ground from the haters out there. Rampage product testing continues... Thwack goes the bicycle!

 good sales pitch, but im keeping my 26s, they've worked fine for year and no real need to change

 Metalarc- but have you tested the 650b wheel set? I remember plenty of people saying that rim brakes have worked just fine so why switch over to discs... extreme example of course but you get my point

No need in shutting off interest in something "new" just because you're comfortable with what you have... although I'm guilty of this with wider handlebars, haha.

 At the time Rampage was first warming up 24" wheels were all the friggin rage. I'll stick with what works as well. Enough with trying to literally reinvent the wheel. Not my problem the industry has run out of ideas to get more of my money!

 650b is stronger? god I am so not down with it. just an excuse to buy new everything, it seems like. enlighten me if im wrong

 It's physics and geomertry guys... Taller wheels/tires mean less rolling resistance in rough ground (They DO also put more stress on the ubs when the bikes laid over, but Go out wheeling in a truck with 29" tires and one with 35's and see what I mean on a bigger scale). IF they can hold up to the Rampage then I'm frickin SOLD. The Norco Range 650B has been calling my name (although the Spec. Enduro EVO has too so...) and I think it would LITTERALY be one of the best "do it all" bikes on the planet. Bigger rims to roll better, but with virtuay the same handeling charectaristics of a 26" wheel??? If the durability is there, what's not to like??? Companies are always doing this and that to their suspension systems, but everyone clammers over "ooh that new X bike is so sick" but when it comes to 650B it's "all just to sell us something we don't need..." REALLY??? SO by that logic, we should have just stopped with new bike design at the KONA Stinky/Norco VPS era... In reality 50 of the bikes out ther are still running the same suspension system but people fnd the need to buy new frames. Why not a 650B frame???

 24s in the dh world were commonly ran on the rear only to keep the nose higher and the bike stance more level on steep slopes.

 scott-there is a difference in which wheel size is better than rim brakes vs disc.

 prime example why theres no need to switch rim size. Bender's 57ft jah drop. as i recall that aluminum (not carbon) Karpiel held up every time. the 26 inch rim up front and 24 inch rim on the back held up. Bender on the other hand did not. I don't see a 57ft drop at rampage so the 26 is more than enough.

 I prefer 26 cuz I excel on the dh, and wider bars too, it's all how you feel, my perfect bike is a 2009 KHS lucky 7, medium. Its all about the way u feel when u ride

 Leave it to the Pinkbike thread to take a video as awesome as this and turn it into a debate over wheel size. I think it was more of a gonad size issue than a wheel size issue in this case.

 is there really a better or worse for this..? seems to me that personal preference should take precedence...

 @ktownroyster you can't use a 57 foot drop to almost flat landing that Bender did almost 10 years ago as a basis of comparison for anything, the statute of limitations has run out on it. This is the real world now, and this is a big, but fairly buffed out smooth jump, the real comparison for wheels will come in top end speed through the smooth and the rough, and the bigger wheels on a bike definitely smooth out the rough, and run faster. It's simple physics, and it has nothing to do with any ratio of chain ring size to cog size unless you're pedaling, and that's a whole different argument.

 @KTownRoyster: Bender's drop is crazy indeed...I am just thinking about what was pulled on the sender last year. What will be tried this year? People wont just be "dropping in" like we see in this video.

 that was benders problem, it was too flat. not the 57ft. he mention that himself in the video about it. add a buffed out smooth landing he could have nailed it. my point was he didnt need larger wheels back then. they wouldn't have helped then, they wouldn't help now. bigger wheels are better on the trails not vertical drops. yes the 650s held up here but so did the 26s on the 57fter. No ones seen if 650s would hold up there. There are other articles that bring up the risk of larger rims increase flat spots and shattered hubs. thats too big of a risk even for pros to throw in with 40ft drops if the wheel gives out. thats why i have such a problem with people pushing larger wheels in freeride. they're fine on the trails but they dont improve anything when half the run is in mid air.

 But they just posted a vid of 650bs holding up to the icon sender... so uh... what more of a test do you need? Are you suggesting that many people will send something more gnarly than that? Hahaha... oh boy.

Just to let you know that wheels taco on stuff that people can easily land but they can also hold up on stuff that people cannot psychically handle as well, its just silly to use that as a comparison as to what certain wheel sizes can preform on... I'm really confused as to what point you're trying to make here, if anything.

 I love the physics argument...
Physics prove they corner worse, have a higher inertia, a greater mass to maintain, They roll fine over ground with holes pitched for a 26" bike etc...Fast guys pump for speed where you cannot pedal, pumping a smaller wheel is more efficient and easier than a larger wheel.
You can prove anything with numbers, just pick the right control factors that suit your argument.
In R&D, the public don't know what they want until we tell them what they want...
There are so many factors to put into the equation,
The world where physics and engineering collide, Engineers know, that engineers are always right :o)

 I don't have a bike, at this point I'd take anything and huck it...

 Well Scott my point is bigger isn't needed and you just proved that saying a rim will taco or it won't. Let's leave it like this. Ever notice when mcdonalds sales go down a bit the mcrib comes back? Well alternate rim sizes is the bike industries mcrib. It's a quick and easy way to sell a new bike. So no this has nothing to do with physics. It's business. And people fall for it every time a new size comes along. Now they are pushing it in the freeride world which is already expensive.

 KTR- We have a name for people like you in the UK- it's GOBSHITE. I hate when people think they know everything. Yes I'm sure business plays a large part- but surely the companies have to come up with something that is not only different but also actually works. I'm happy with my 26s for now, but I'm not ruling out 29s, 31s or whatever they come up with next. I'm glad we've got engineers and designers capable of pushing the boundaries of equipment in MTB. Some will be interested in money, but some will also be genuinely interested in making better and better bikes for people to stretch the limits of our sport. Don't be such a sceptic.

 f*ck OFF WITH THIS TIRED ( or is that TYRED ) SUBJECT

 Only on pinkbike do you get "neg propped" for knowing what you're talking about... I'm NOT saying 26" wheels are dead or don't have their place, simply that 650B CLEARLY works and has an advantage in some situations. Notice I said NOTHING about 29's as I really don't care for the way they handle (although if yur an XC racer they really do seem to be "the thing" so even they have their place), but 650B has some great reasons to embrace it: One being it just survived the sender...

KTR: you're right about the acceleration issues, and flat out WRONG about everything else. That McRib anology is about as stupid a comment as I've EVER seen on pinkbike (and that includes EVERYTHING RC says) and that says a LOT. Please leave this discussion as you simply lack the fundamental intelegence to debate such things.

It's called innovation. I realize youre too young to know this, but by your reasoning, we should have just stopped at rim brakes, rigid frames and Index shifters... Those bikes of yours... they are ALL the product of someone doing "something new" (and by your reason to make more money stand alone) so does tha mean you're stupid for buiying some "new fangled surspension bike"??? You contradict yourself at every turn, personally I think "GODSHITE" is putting it lightly.

 ^goddamn...

 gotta love pinkbike!! right simcik!!!?

 I love the "afraid of innovation" card. I'm not afraid of innovation. people once thought the best way to improve the suspension was longer travel. lets make a 12in fork. and bender yet again pushed it and bottomed them flat out. then they got the idea lets stick with 8in and improve the dampening and all the internals. Now less travel forks stomp the crap out of the old Bigfoot. sometimes the best innovation is simply improving whats already been designed not start at the drawing board creating something new and bigger from scratch. Making a larger wheel will not soften the blow of 40+ drops. You're innovating the wrong part for this situation. which is all I've been trying to say the whole time. I never said 650s weren't great for trails. Going from rigid frames to suspension is a BIG difference of innovation then a slightly larger wheel. Sorry you all have a problem with people discussing mountain biking on a mountain biking website feel free to ignore or leave the page.

 I think KTRs last comment makes sense. there is a difference in rigid and suspension but not so much in wheel size FOR THIS EVENT. I mean stop and think about it. 650s create less rolling resistance and roll over objects easier, YES. BUT look at the wooden sender and smooth sculpted landing. I dont see any objects to roll over for the larger wheel to be needed. Not all innovations are needed. Like does the A/C improve a cars performace, no. Thats a luxury. I think the larger wheels are similar. they are a luxury. they make the rough trail less rough. I don't know about you but I find the rough stuff most fun.

 agreed. i like the rough stuff. but no no lets make larger wheels to make rock gardens smoother. if you want that heres a better idea...clear the rock garden. hell while you're at it. pave it! because i'm sure pavement is the innovation from dirt. damn while you're at that put a motor on the bike because i'm 100% positive the innovation from the bicycle itself was the motorcycle. if you're gonna throw the "innovation" card fully think about it before you do because with that logic we all are scared of innovation by still ridding bicycles.

medic with your logic of innovation I think its time to hang all our bikes up and abandon this outdated sport.

 Everyone, Ktown might report you for harassment for calling him on his shit. BE CAREFUL!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Ktown is nothing but a troll who will make sexual comments about you when you challenge him. He needs to be banned or leave. His buddy Ihatecomputers set up an account just to try to prove a few months back that ktowm was right that heavier objects fll faster than lighter objects. Pair of special ones they are.

 Ihatecomputers, so you don't use suspension because it makes the trail more fun? Most people look at the combination of fast + rough = fun. Unless you ride rigid fixed gear, you have nothin' of value to say on this as you are being hypocritical. "I like suspension smoothing, but not wheel efficiency smoothing. WTF?"

 and going around finding all my comments isn't trolling? get your eyes checked because I don't read any sexual comments in this thread. seems you're the only one bringing that up. If your comment doesn't add to the discussion topic you should leave. I do recall that in the user agreement under online etiquette.

 this has gotten waaaaay over blown. SO WHAT IF BINGGELI WANTS TO RIDE 650b WHEELS AT RAMPAGE? why does every f***cking article remotely related to wheel size turn into a massive argument? are people just not capable of dropping their egos for a couple of minutes and enjoying some sick riding in a preview for the sickest upcoming event?

 And I created this page to tell you all...SHUT UP! Ktown you have some good points and some not so good. Just move on. Ihate... I agree but still, shut up! Willie like ktown said, going around to call him out in fact makes you just as much of a troll. so SHUT UP! and everyone else on this thread SHUT UP and ride!

 *slow clap for shutup* I will not not shut up...but only so I can tell you that that is the best comment so far on this thread.

 hell I'll swallow my pride and agree to that.

 seriously! that was hugeee!

 The crazy part is when you're standing on top of it, you're thinking, "man this really isn't that massive as I thought". Its insane how deceiving it is.

 Logan "Big Balls" Binggeli!!!

 Crazy to think that was 3'd more than once last rampage!

 @Karpiel073 this has never been three'd. It's a whole different jump from two years ago, same location and made of wood, but that's the only similarity.

 Yeah it looks like it's got a lot more "out" to hit the tranny aye... Or is that just an optical illusion??? Sure looks awesome, now I want to see someone do the under route to the awesome looking "cliff ride" booter or whatever it is... Sweet Vid aye.

 You've made my day

 Same here! Hahaha.. That nearly killed me!

 WTF AM I DOING TRIPPLE FRONT FLIP

 He was probably like " oh this isn't so bad..." Then 10 minutes later he landed and almost went deaf from the sound of that bottom out

 glad I don't have a single crown fork maybe..

 it looks like hes going for the canyon gap instead...

 the skull is at the top of the sender.

 I don't think I've bunny hopped off a drop since 1999.

 Really ,1999 ,did you get more distance, or did it put your weight too far back ?

 I do not understand your question.

 Bunnyhopping of drops is something bender would do ,land rear wheel first ,come in to a drop real slow , sometimes he would get too much speed and the hop would throw his weight too far back and he would lose it on the landing . i've noticed it's possible to hop off a drop bunny hopping both wheels evenly with the weight a little forward ,aat speed ,and you can clear more distance . I haven't perfected it ,but i'd like to beable to hop off the lip at speed and do a 2 wheel landing , so both shocks compress at the same time . With a sand pit drop it's steep the farther you go the more you drop . bunny hopping 5 inches off the lip could send you a bike length farther. The only hazard is, if your dropping 25 to 30FT, is the hop going to send you a hair sideways !

 Neg propped u by mistake... Sorry..... And for the record "that's what she saaaAaiiiiiiidddddd !!!!!!!" XD

 yeah that sounded awful, surprised the frame or the wheels held up

 should be broadcast online.. I hope

 The speed that he hit it at, i dont think it's flipable... Except for Seminuk, that flip he threw off the drop in at Joyride would be perfect there

 I don't think anyone will flip it. There has only been 2 flips off drops this year and both were done on dj/slopestyle bikes. Downhill bikes are a whole different story.

 Macduff is going to do it, brakeless

 Oh come on be real, Pilgrim did the drop flip on a hardtail, Semenuk did it with his SS bike which is just as a hardtail... here they will be riding bikes with 7-8" travel that would just soak up everything as they would lean back for the flip.

 disagree.

 Yeah, it was like 1.45s approx.

 I counted 3 Mississippis. Maybe not completely 3 seconds but more than 1.45. Either way, nuts!

 [YT=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO63WKGiGBk]

 who's gonna flip it...?

 The skull at the top of the sender is named "Josh" LOL