Vorsprung Suspension Releases Corset Air Sleeve for Trek DRCV Shocks by VorsprungSuspension

37 1

smokenhq (Oct 20, 2015 at 17:33)

The corset air sleeve I put on my Float X shock made the world of difference.... The improvement was like night and day. I cant recommend this upgrade enough. And when you see Fox bringing the same thing out on all their new shocks! There must be something in it right.

13 1

mustleaveplanet (Oct 20, 2015 at 18:28)

^This. I fitted a Corset Air Sleeve to the Float X on my Pivot Mach 6 and it actually sags a few mm under it's own weight like a coil equipped DH bike would. It's THAT supple!!
Also, despite the sag sitting about 3% lower in the travel, it actually has a lot better support, so i end up with less pedal strikes when pedaling over rocks, gnar etc. The air spring's bottom-out resistance is better too with much more ramp-up at the end of the travel. All in all it was a great upgrade

2 1

notthatfast (Oct 21, 2015 at 8:38)

Pretty tempted to do this to my Saracen, it blows through its travel really quickly

5 1

Xyphota (Oct 21, 2015 at 22:14)

I also support this product. The beginning stroke is super subtle like a coil, but it ramps up like an air shock. This is one of the few products that truthfully works 100% as advertised in my opinion.

1 0

brucey96 (Oct 22, 2015 at 7:08)

An Ariel by any chance? I had one that did that a bit and I ended up running next to no sag to stop it ????

1 0

notthatfast (Oct 22, 2015 at 15:18)

Yeah it is. Might try that, but I like the small bump sensitivity

5 0

Mike2112 (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:23)

What are the units of measure on the x-axis for shock stroke? Inches? Feet? Lets assume inches. So at .3 inches of shock stroke the two lines cross on the Spring Rate graph. My question is this, when I sit or stand on the pedals, I am pre-loading the shock, am I compressing the shock past this amount of travel?

21 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:39)

Inches. At sag, yes you are past that point. The spring rate graph is the derivative of the spring force graph. The spring rate curve shows you the CHANGE in force you'll see when you move the shock a short distance away from any given point, but it doesn't tell you the total force value - you'd have to integrate that curve over the shock travel up to the point you're interested in, which in turn gives you back your spring force graph. To explain why it's beneficial though - the initial stiffness of a conventional air spring configuration such as the stock DRCV sleeves is very high. It feels kind of like a highly preloaded coil shock. That means you have a rapid increase in force in a very short distance at the start of the travel, meaning every time the wheel leaves the ground, it needs a substantial amount of force just to initiate movement of the suspension at all. By contrast, the middle of the stroke of most air springs is lacking in support (DRCV is actually quite a bit better in that regard), which is where the higher spring rate (meaning, again, higher change in force for any change in distance) is handy to get you a more predictable and playful feeling. As mentioned, the DRCV is already better than average in terms of mid stroke support, but a lot of more aggressive riders find that the end stroke support is lacking (which the Corset also helps) and/or the early stroke is relatively harsh. The Corset offers benefits at both ends of the stroke, and even more mid-stroke support as well. The difference, even to bounce on, is very pronounced.

3 0

klopp (Oct 21, 2015 at 21:02)

Gotta love that calculus!

4 1

TheShireFlyer (Oct 20, 2015 at 21:24)

Vorsprung, I'd be interested to hear what you feel about Fox learning from all your hard work and replicating it themselves with their latest shocks! I hope your business model is sustainable as I'd like to see the Corsets stick around for a long time.

53 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 20, 2015 at 21:49)

No product lasts forever, and it's simply the way any high-end product industry goes that the leaders imitate each other's technology. For example, you could legitimately say that every company out there using an air sprung shock absorber is copying Fox, and that would be true - they actually developed them decades ago for motorbikes. Vorsprung has a bit more going on than just what you see here though, air cans are not our only product and there will be plenty more. R&D is an ongoing process, put it that way

For the record, whilst I'm pretty sure our product development timeline on these goes back the furthest, Rockshox brought the Debonair to market almost a year before us (similar concept, slightly different execution), and I doubt Fox were aware of our products whilst developing their own (unless they saw the protos we were covertly testing in the 2013 EWS). However, there's only so many ways to skin a cat, and as a result their Evol sleeves look quite a lot like ours, but as with all performance, the devil is in the details (F1 cars all look much the same, but some clearly go quicker than others!). We actually tested them to see how they stacked up too - they aren't anywhere near as linear as the Corset's beginning stroke though. Results of the Corset vs Evol dyno testing are here for anyone interested - on.fb.me/1M6xiCh

Oh... and the Corsets don't have the notch you can feel in every single other air spring at the equalisation point. Because science

4 1

nicolai12 (Oct 21, 2015 at 9:45)

@VorsprungSuspension great feedback to everyone here - thanks. I've been frustrated with all of my Trek bikes for a few years due to inadequate OEM shock performance. Glad to see there is a partial solution to address their proprietary i2i and limited shock options.

7 1

VwHarman (Oct 21, 2015 at 16:33)

Honestly, @VorsrungSuspension deserves credit for not only answering comment section queries but answering honestly. Kudos!

2 0

billymtb (Oct 22, 2015 at 7:18)

Really interested in the science behind this. As much as you are willing to disclose

Won't the ideal equalisation point be where that at 0% sag there is the same force on either side of the piston (Although different pressures because the negative side has a piston in and perhaps a little more force for the negative to overcome initial stiction). Won't simple maths easily be able to determine this point and if so why has it taken companies so long to catch on? I am intrigued because in another thread some one asked what the exact equalisation point and you said it was a secret.

Or is the hardest part balancing the negative air volume with the positive air volume to reach an ideal curve?

4 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 22, 2015 at 14:15)

You're on the right track on most points, however regarding the simplicity... that's what we thought initially too. There are difficulties involved in the calculation though, and in the packaging. A large part of the difficulty comes from needing to be able to accurately model the spring curve mathematically and have it be verifiable in the real world. There are factors involved that I've never seen mentioned by anybody else, so I'm not about to open anyone's eyes to them when it's taken us such a long time to refine everything to a degree we were satisfied with. We don't disclose specifics regarding how these characteristics are achieved as it is literally handing over years of our work to the general public and our competitors - you can measure it yourself if you're that keen!

2 0

jhtopilko (Oct 16, 2015 at 6:00)

Mentioning possible sag percentages achievable would help some make their decision. I liked the first part of the stroke a lot. A tune to match the new spring rate should be advertised as well. For the benefit of tuner and rider, mostly the rider.

12 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:14)

Hi Jared - we took on board a lot of rider feedback, including yours, during the development of the DRCV sleeves. Fortunately, unlike the original Corset, the DRCV sleeves only have to work on one particular bike each, which is relatively easy for us to individually test and validate, especially since the leverage rates of these bikes are quite easy to work with. By comparison, the standard sleeves could be fitted to a huge range of bikes, the majority of which they work very well on, and some which they don't (usually the highly progressive ones such as your Range, or those which are already very slack/low and suffer from any increase in sag). Sag levels achievable on the Fuel EX, Remedy and Slash are all completely realistic (high 20%'s) for most riders. Because the spring curves on the DRCV shocks are already more linear than the conventional Floats and the dampers tuned to match, revalving will not be necessary for most riders, though those with exceptional requirements (heavier or highly aggressive riders) may still benefit from valving modifications as they would with the standard sleeve. Anyone who has queries about these, I encourage to email us on steve at vorsprungsuspension.com.

4 1

jhtopilko (Oct 21, 2015 at 5:46)

That's great! Based on my experience with the corset and your explanation on a specific bike I think I would love the corset on a remedy if I owned one, I have rented remedy 8 650b twice and I like the bike a lot.

2 0

gapos999 (Oct 20, 2015 at 23:23)

Hi Vorsprung, I bought a corset for my specialized 29er for which i used to have air volume reducers in my stock float ctd.
Does it make sence to use air volume reducers with the corset or shall I just try even higher air pressure (I allready use 30psi more than my stock set up)

4 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 20, 2015 at 23:44)

Shoot us an email on steve at vorsprungsuspension.com and I'll help you get all set up.

1 0

toronte (Oct 20, 2015 at 23:50)

it's recommended to go with the medium spacer on the vorsprung website. you could however also try a large if you feel like you need it.

2 0

macochejl (Oct 21, 2015 at 0:15)

I was so stoked when installing this upgrade od my Fox Triad. The improvement was huge, but... leak appeared. Now I don't know how to deal with it really, since I ordered the sleeve half way across the globe (literally)... :-(

6 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 14:04)

Shoot us an email, we'll get you sorted out! steve at vorsprungsuspension .com

3 1

jasbushey (Oct 21, 2015 at 7:53)

I added the corset on my Float CTD on my Bronson and can't recommend enough. That little sleeve did world of difference for small bump compliance. It has no longer become the worst 1/2 of the suspension of my bike (Pike on front). And I can still run with a water bottle cage (which is great after work and long rides with non-water).

3 1

xy9ine (Oct 21, 2015 at 9:35)

yep. huge improvement on the bronson. i like it.

3 1

Rucker10 (Oct 21, 2015 at 11:09)

Vorsprung is killing it. A good friend of mine uses an air sleeve on his 2013 Transition Covert and it really turned that bike around for him. Really nice machine work too I thought. Just needs to open a big ass factory and hire me on so I can live Squamish and run all his fancy CnC's for him.

4 0

angel13 (Oct 21, 2015 at 13:04)

I have one on my Spec. Stumpjumper EVO Comp 2013 and I can just second what others are saying here. It is simply brilliant.

1 0

mobilenemo (Oct 22, 2015 at 11:59)

@VorsprungSuspension I have a 2013 Giant Reign with a float CTD-A aired up at 190psi. I'm trying to get more pop out of the bike while still maintaining small bump compliance. Is the corset a worthwhile upgrade? I'm also concerned about sag for steep seated climbs.

2 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 22, 2015 at 14:08)

You'll definitely get more pop and better small bump compliance. The sag will increase though - exactly how much depends on the leverage rate curve of the bike. The Reign is somewhat progressivel, so you'll end up running most likely around 30-32% sag if you were previously running 25-26%, and the pressure you'll end up at will most likely be around the 250psi mark. To see if that level of sag is going to bother you, try setting your existing shock to slightly less sag than that (say 28-30%) and climbing with that. The reason I say set your shock to a lower sag than the Corset, is because the Corset's spring rate in the middle of the stroke is quite a bit higher, meaning that once the bike is pointed uphill and your weight is loading up the rear tyre more heavily, it won't displace as far from the static sag point as the stock shock.

1 0

jzmtb666 (Oct 22, 2015 at 20:05)

@VorsprungSuspension This looks so rad and really adds some things I feel like bike's suspension doesn't provide. I know this article is solely for Trek, but I have a 2013 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp Evo 26 with a Fox Float Evolution CTD. Would Vorsprung have the Corset Air Sleeve that I would need? Thanks!

3 0

faxmulder (Oct 28, 2015 at 13:09)

With this air sleeve should I still run a Push Industries Air-Volume Tuning Kit Trek DRCV Shock?

At the moment running the biggest spacer.

1 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 29, 2015 at 18:31)

You'll likely find that you no longer want the volume reducer in there once the Corset is installed, but they are still compatible should you feel that you want even stronger ramp-up at the end of the stroke.

1 0

stubestrong (Nov 2, 2015 at 9:20)

Faxmulder did you get a corset?
And do you run with or without the push chip?

1 0

faxmulder (Nov 2, 2015 at 10:23)

No not yet. Will be ordering it soon.
Just got a few other jobs to do on the bike before.

Prob will try it with the smallest chip first (am 95 kg, running biggest one now).

4 1

rippersub (Oct 20, 2015 at 20:21)

I own two, bang for your buck best upgrade you can make. I don't own a trek but I can only assume that the improvements are just as good!

1 0

MX298 (Oct 20, 2015 at 22:54)

Got a sleeve for my son's Enduro when they first came out and could not pedel it. Stupid specialized shock curve! Sat in a box till they made a specific one for the Enduro But in the mean time put on a spring Ohlins and now nothing else is even close to that setup!

4 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 22, 2015 at 15:35)

Yup - we f***ed up with that originally, sorry. There is one model Enduro (2013 26") that uses a proper 8.5x2.5 stroke shock, which is what we tested the original 8.5x2.5 Corsets on, and on that, they work great. Every model before and since, however, used a shorter stroke shock, on which the standard 8.5x2.5 Corset was too soft and lacked ramp up, hence developing the Enduro-specific Corset which we offered to exchange at no charge for any customers who'd purchased the 8.5x2.5 Corset for their Enduro and weren't happy with the result.

5 1

xCri (Oct 20, 2015 at 18:15)

Good job Vorsprung someone needed to fix that turd of a shock.

4 1

justincs (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:50)

I have a corset on my float ctd and it rides like a coil in descend mode (2013 Banshee) it just works!

4 0

bstill30 (Oct 20, 2015 at 21:04)

Installed on my Covert and I couldn't be happier.

5 1

WillCoates (Oct 21, 2015 at 11:18)

OH HELL YES THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IVE BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!!

4 0

brazilian-monkey (Oct 21, 2015 at 12:30)

best thing i did on my bike, Thanks CORSET!!!!

2 0

Mattin (Oct 24, 2015 at 14:58)

I like the Vorsprung name. Creative one. Surprises me they are not from Germany. Product looks good and good to see all these positive user experiences

2 0

Grononosse (Nov 30, 2015 at 11:42)

Installed this week end. ....tried in the wood. Time will tell, but seems to be great. Very smooth and absorbs the small bumps.

3 0

trailninja275 (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:46)

Looks neat! Does anyone know the install time for this upgrade?

5 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:51)

It's quite easy to install yourself, same as any air can service other than needing a strap wrench to do up nice and tight (standard sleeves only need to be hand tight). Details here service.foxracingshox.com/consumers/Content/Service/QuickTech/DrCV_Airsleeve_maintenance_notes.htm

If you'd like us to install it, you can arrange that by email - steve (at) vorsprung suspension .com

1 0

fcruzin (Oct 22, 2015 at 15:25)

@VorsprungSuspension
How will this effect if my DRCV got the Push reducer?
Should I keep it in there or take it out?

Thanks

2 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 22, 2015 at 15:32)

You'll likely find that you no longer want the volume reducer in there once the Corset is installed, but they are still compatible should you feel that you want even stronger ramp-up at the end of the stroke.

1 0

aaron-thistle (Oct 22, 2015 at 18:31)

@VorsprungSuspension i have a 15 remedy 9.8. how does the sleeve effect the climbing of this bike in the (climb) position on the ctd?

2 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 24, 2015 at 18:48)

You'll run slightly more sag, other than that it will be quite similar. The air sleeve doesn't change the function of the damper at all.

3 0

pintoproof (Oct 20, 2015 at 17:21)

Yassssssssss! Lets make that fox shock on my bike look sexy...

3 1

flowjoe67 (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:02)

Put one on my Carbine and the improvements are noticeable. Worth the $150.

3 1

forevertwosix (Oct 20, 2015 at 21:40)

Does it work on the reactiv shocks?

2 1

Tk24 (Oct 20, 2015 at 21:53)

Second that. ☝????️ @vorsprungsuspension

6 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 20, 2015 at 21:56)

Sure does!

1 0

joespataro (Oct 21, 2015 at 18:05)

Does it work in conjunction with re:aktiv or does it in any way detract from the re:aktiv functionality? I thought changes were made to the re:aktiv components when the move to the Evol platform occurred for 2016...

2 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 22:56)

Reaktiv is a damping technology, and as with any damper, it's continually undergoing changes and improvements each model year - especially if the designers feel the need to reassess its function because they've changed something else (in this case, the spring configuration going from DRCV to Evol). The biggest changes to the damping curve in the case of this type of change, if necessary at all, occur in terms of low speed compression, as on many bikes increasing the sag means the geometric anti-squat of the rear end is reduced at the sag point. However, Reaktiv already allows you to run a very high platform effect with reduced harshness as compared to a traditional poppet valve setup (as in the RP23/CTD dampers found in the DRCV shocks), so in practical terms what that may relate to is people using the firmer modes more frequently. However, out of all the relevant dampers out there, the Reaktiv ones are the ones I consider least likely to need internal revalving to match the Corset spring curve - partly because the anti-squat curve of the Treks doesn't drop off as sharply as many bikes, and partly because the existing firm platform already provides a lot of low speed support.

1 0

joespataro (Oct 23, 2015 at 9:15)

Thanks for the info - very insightful.

1 0

Caiokv FL (Oct 21, 2015 at 9:42)

I own a X Fusion 02 R with the AV air sleeve (Norco Range) which shock is worth as an upgrade?

3 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 14:58)

The Range is an especially progressive bike - I would recommend a coil sprung shock on that bike. The new CCDB Coil CS might be a good choice for you, if you can deal with the weight over an air sprung shock.

1 0

Caiokv FL (Oct 22, 2015 at 4:13)

Thanks!

3 1

fabdemaere (Oct 21, 2015 at 12:06)

@vorsprungsuspension can we except a similar product for the Floatx2?

2 1

TH3GR33KN3SS (Oct 21, 2015 at 13:56)

I also want to know this.

2 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 14:05)

Wouldn't count anything out, but we haven't specifically started looking at that one yet.

2 1

jj130 (Oct 21, 2015 at 13:14)

@VorsprungSuspension you guys not planning to market your own line of air shocks?

4 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 14:11)

Maybe one day, but the reality is that a whole shock absorber is a complex thing to get right. Just throwing one together willy nilly with relatively small R&D resources (compared to say Fox and SRAM) and then trying to beat them on performance and reliability while keeping price realistic, is quite the challenge. You only have to get one little detail wrong and your whole shock doesn't function properly, so thoroughly developing and testing all that stuff is expensive and time consuming. Right now, that would be biting off more than we can chew, but who knows what the future holds

2 1

bstill30 (Oct 21, 2015 at 19:10)

I like the idea of you guys developing custom air cans like the Corset as well as aftermarket dampener cartridges. Love my Corset!!

1 0

Norton007 (Oct 21, 2015 at 13:19)

I have a '16 Slash 8 with the DebonAir upgrade. How does this compare to that?

2 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 14:22)

The Corset/DRCV combination is the most supportive and coil-like air spring currently existing in the bike market, bar none (check out the force vs displacement curve above, and consider that a coil spring gives a dead straight line).
However, while our accountant would probably tell us that we should be trying to convince you that whatever we're selling is exactly what you need every single time... would I recommend anyone spend the money to swap out a whole shock AND install a new air sleeve just to gain that over what is already a reasonably good spring/damper combo (assuming you have the Mon+ DebonAir)? Only if you were really super dedicated - for most people I would not think the expenditure would justify the comparatively small performance improvement, although you do benefit from the increased reliability of the Fox chassis/seals as well.

1 0

dytrdr6 (Oct 23, 2015 at 7:03)

anyone know if the Vorsprung sleeve works on an Evil uprising, kind of tight fit in there. TIA

1 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 26, 2015 at 18:46)

We don't actually know for sure. There's one person on MTBR saying they have tried it and it fits, and another saying they tried it and it doesn't even come close. Maybe there are multiple versions of that frame? forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=2563214

1 0

MaxMellier (Oct 25, 2015 at 11:17)

Hello, how does the corset air can behaves on a Yeti SB6c?
Anyone has any experience?

1 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 25, 2015 at 12:35)

enduro-mtb.com/en/the-review-vorsprung-corset-suspension-upgrade these guys reviewed it on exactly that bike

1 0

MaxMellier (Oct 26, 2015 at 1:48)

Great review!
Any experience feedback to back up their review? Especially concerning the sag value...
I already run my SB6c with a sag of 30%, do you think I would need to increase it even further?
I have never experienced any "sluggish climbing" with my bike even with the decent mode... should I worry?
How does the new air can influence the different mode of the shock?

1 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 26, 2015 at 18:41)

You can run 30% sag no problem on the SB6C - if you're already running that much then you're just going to find it more supportive and even plusher at the start. Compared to what you're currently running (quite a bit of sag for a stock Float air can), you can basically expect no real negatives. The damper function is unchanged, though you may find yourself using the Trail mode more often than you used to, because the air spring is no longer oversprung in the start of the travel.

1 0

MaxMellier (Oct 27, 2015 at 1:47)

Thank you @VorsprungSuspension for the clear answer!
I am running that much sag because I am rather light (60kg) and if I want a bit a small bump sensitivity, that's was the only way to go... I do bottom out once in a while on my daily rides but nothing too bad. A bit more support would be nice as well.
Still, I would very much like to have something plusher at the very beginning of the stroke. The feeling is a bit harsh right now for my liking while the rest of the shock function fits my riding style quite well.
Looks like your air can is exactly what I am looking for!
I guess I just have to wait for the black 8.5x2.5 to be back in stock to get this black stealth beauty on my bike!

1 0

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 29, 2015 at 18:31)

@MaxMellier I believe TF Tuned has the black 8.5s in stock right now.

3 1

jacobi04 (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:36)

nice

1 0

prophet413 (Oct 21, 2015 at 18:55)

@vorsprungsuspension any plans on a 6.5x1.5 version?

1 1

VorsprungSuspension (Oct 21, 2015 at 23:41)

Not at this stage, sorry. Demand for that size hasn't been particularly high.

1 0

Xc2dh1 (Oct 22, 2015 at 8:56)

How does it compare to a ccdb air ?

1 0

Joseph-o (Oct 20, 2015 at 19:49)

@BrianErickson

1 0

downhillcome (Nov 6, 2015 at 17:38)

good