Collaboration video project - Amateur Videogragher group

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Collaboration video project - Amateur Videogragher group
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Posted: May 25, 2010 at 18:51 Quote
Cmontjumper wrote:
and as for music rights
my dad was the head pyrotechnic and lighting manager for the Rolling Stones, Guns n' Roses, and a few other major bands. I don't know how much that will help, but I can talk to him about it. Do we even need rights if it ends up being just a Pinkbike featured video like Whats Next?
Legally we don't need music rights if it free and for "non commercial purposes" that means Larock would need them as his was a commercial venture even though it was delivered free on the internet. Out of principal I'd rather support artists that use licensing that allows us to use their work free.

Posted: May 25, 2010 at 19:04 Quote
kiwihardtail wrote:
Cmontjumper wrote:
and as for music rights
my dad was the head pyrotechnic and lighting manager for the Rolling Stones, Guns n' Roses, and a few other major bands. I don't know how much that will help, but I can talk to him about it. Do we even need rights if it ends up being just a Pinkbike featured video like Whats Next?
Legally we don't need music rights if it free and for "non commercial purposes" that means Larock would need them as his was a commercial venture even though it was delivered free on the internet. Out of principal I'd rather support artists that use licensing that allows us to use their work free.
so we wouldnt have to get the rights? or are u saying we would, but itd be free for the rights.

Posted: May 25, 2010 at 19:21 Quote
Cmontjumper wrote:
so we wouldnt have to get the rights? or are u saying we would, but itd be free for the rights.
Ok so here's how it is... If we all work on it individually and release it free on the net for anyone to view then we can use whatever music we want and not get sued, because it is non commercial use. As soon as we get a sponsor or a company helps us out in some way it becomes commercial. But here's the worst part, even if we release it free and it's completely non commercial and put it up on pinkbike and youtube etc those little google ads pop up ... guess what that means, it's now commercial because someone is making money off it even if it's not us.

So that's the cold hard legal facts ... but in practice little projects like this will likely never be sued because we are so small. Even though we might be legally obliged to get licences for music and codecs etc the reality is that nearly no-one does. It's just my principal not to get involved in legally complicated and unclear situations like that, even if the risk of legal repercussions is slim to none.

Sigh ... it's pretty much a minefield ...

Posted: May 25, 2010 at 19:25 Quote
kiwihardtail wrote:
Cmontjumper wrote:
so we wouldnt have to get the rights? or are u saying we would, but itd be free for the rights.
Ok so here's how it is... If we all work on it individually and release it free on the net for anyone to view then we can use whatever music we want and not get sued, because it is non commercial use. As soon as we get a sponsor or a company helps us out in some way it becomes commercial. But here's the worst part, even if we release it free and it's completely non commercial and put it up on pinkbike and youtube etc those little google ads pop up ... guess what that means, it's now commercial because someone is making money off it even if it's not us.

So that's the cold hard legal facts ... but in practice little projects like this will likely never be sued because we are so small. Even though we might be legally obliged to get licences for music and codecs etc the reality is that nearly no-one does. It's just my principal not to get involved in legally complicated and unclear situations like that, even if the risk of legal repercussions is slim to none.

Sigh ... it's pretty much a minefield ...
oh.. ok. that makes more sense now.. much more.

Posted: May 25, 2010 at 19:48 Quote
Cmontjumper wrote:
kiwihardtail wrote:
Cmontjumper wrote:
so we wouldnt have to get the rights? or are u saying we would, but itd be free for the rights.
Ok so here's how it is... If we all work on it individually and release it free on the net for anyone to view then we can use whatever music we want and not get sued, because it is non commercial use. As soon as we get a sponsor or a company helps us out in some way it becomes commercial. But here's the worst part, even if we release it free and it's completely non commercial and put it up on pinkbike and youtube etc those little google ads pop up ... guess what that means, it's now commercial because someone is making money off it even if it's not us.

So that's the cold hard legal facts ... but in practice little projects like this will likely never be sued because we are so small. Even though we might be legally obliged to get licences for music and codecs etc the reality is that nearly no-one does. It's just my principal not to get involved in legally complicated and unclear situations like that, even if the risk of legal repercussions is slim to none.


Sigh ... it's pretty much a minefield ...
oh.. ok. that makes more sense now.. much more.
I think we should just try to find legal music then we dont have to worry about this music rights

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 1:25 Quote
Cmontjumper wrote:
kiwihardtail wrote:
Ok guys, if we want this to be a more casual affair then a mass upload would work, everyone just has to choose a song from one source. My vote is for Jamendo. Then from there we make sure no-one has titles or credits on their segments so that someone like me or whoever is keen can go through and add a whole bunch of the same style to tie it all together.

Vimeo will probably work best for uploading a compressed version so that we can choose the segments that work together the best, but we may want to use another service for exchanging the uncompressed final sections.

If we are to go ahead with this everyone needs to shoot 1080 or 720p at 25 fps. I'm keen if everyone else is. if this is a success we could do it bigger and better later on. Who knows?
personally, i dont think anyone should shoot in interlaced. or is there a way to de-lace (i dont know if thats what its called) the video so it becomes progressive in editing? is that also how you change the frame rate? also, is there a "due-date" for the segment yet? or are we still too early in the planning process. because i know ih-sam is in winter at the moment and its been pouring here for some reason for a while now even tho its summer :/ and rain around here usually ends in the beginning of feburary

Lolz, it was nearly 30 degrees the other day haha.

And yeah get bunkey on it with his curtainrail skils lol

Also I thought DVD was out of the question, why are people still discussing it as a viable option.

If people read the thread they would realise Kiwi said we should use Jamendo, its a good idea, I'll pool the music in the OP if people post up good tracks that they have found, that way there is a selection of tracks people can choose from for free

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 8:52 Quote
kiwihardtail wrote:
even if we release it free and it's completely non commercial and put it up on pinkbike and youtube etc those little google ads pop up ... guess what that means, it's now commercial because someone is making money off it even if it's not us.

That would mean that every single video uploaded to pinkbike with no music rights is in breach of copywrite, even the shitty 10sec clips on mobile phones.

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 13:09 Quote
bunkey wrote:
That would mean that every single video uploaded to pinkbike with no music rights is in breach of copywrite, even the shitty 10sec clips on mobile phones.
Technically, yes. Scary isn't it.

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 13:55 Quote
I might be wrong, but technically the pop up ads are not part of the video, it is just ads space provided by pinkbike, google, ect. where as if it was dirrectly in the video it would be a different stroy. So i dont beleive that would cause any trouble

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 14:06 Quote
Some music labels still charge for Internet usage anyway...

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 14:12 Quote
timlake wrote:
Most/All music labels charge for Internet usage anyway...
FYP

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 14:34 Quote
mtbwoodtrails wrote:
I might be wrong, but technically the pop up ads are not part of the video, it is just ads space provided by pinkbike, google, ect. where as if it was dirrectly in the video it would be a different stroy. So i dont beleive that would cause any trouble
The ad pops up on your video, the ad makes money. If your video wasn't there the ad would not be there. Therefore the video you uploaded is being used commercially. It's quite stupid isn't it, still I have to say that no-one has been sued for that sort of use, but they could as it is technically infringing copyright laws.

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 14:34 Quote
ih-sam wrote:
timlake wrote:
Most/All music labels charge for Internet usage anyway...
FYP
Good call lol Smile

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 16:18 Quote
I talked to my dad about it (who owns a music rights management company) and he said it has nothing to do with ads at all. They're not part of the video so they don't mean anything. It's a question of public performance - when you bought the music, you paid for a license to listen to it yourself. The problem lies in that when you put it in a video, you're now showing it publicly which is against of the terms of the license. In fact, every video on the internet, even the ones without ads, are illegal if you didn't buy music rights for the song you used. The exceptions are if the video is strictly for educational purposes (althought there are some conditions to this), or if you use royalty-free music.

Posted: May 26, 2010 at 16:59 Quote
SpikeX wrote:
I talked to my dad about it (who owns a music rights management company) and he said it has nothing to do with ads at all. They're not part of the video so they don't mean anything. It's a question of public performance - when you bought the music, you paid for a license to listen to it yourself. The problem lies in that when you put it in a video, you're now showing it publicly which is against of the terms of the license. In fact, every video on the internet, even the ones without ads, are illegal if you didn't buy music rights for the song you used. The exceptions are if the video is strictly for educational purposes (althought there are some conditions to this), or if you use royalty-free music.
Well put, technically my argument is about MPEG LA who own just about every video codec known to man. So I should have mentioned that it's not really about music when I said the ads make it illegal. Here's a link for further reading if you're interested: Why our civilization culture is threatened by MPEG-LA


 
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