Training program

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flag brooce
Posted: Feb 13, 2011 at 0:36 Quote
clarkestar wrote:
Hey man. Step it up a bit, if you're serious about getting into phenomenal riding condition you need to be training 6 days a week until you get there. and than drop down to what you described as a maintenance thing.
Thanks for the advice Wink Yes, I added 45minutes of light riding on monday, 45minutes of light (but with high cadence) spinning on thursday (unless I'm sore from yesterday's gym). If the weather improves, I'll also do something on saturday (a kind of regenative/skill-focused riding). Intensity of friday's rides has also gone up a bit (unfortunatelly, still on a spinning bike - too snowy outside. I hope that I'll be able to go out soon).
flag raak
Posted: Feb 13, 2011 at 1:58 Quote
clarkestar wrote:
You need to do your research. Doing deadlifts doesn't just make you better at deadlifting. that is like saying training your biceps with a barbell won't help you when you have to lift a box. Use your head.

Actually, if you'd bothered to really read my post you'd have seen:

If you deadlift regularly, guess what you'll most improve in: DEADLIFTING! The same with all the other resistance exercies. Now the exercises will make you overall stronger, more powerful and fitter, which is advantageous - but this magic link James promotes between his cosen exercises and riding is overstated and largely unfounded.

And in all fairness, training the biceps will help you do two things: curl a weight by flexing the arms - or isometrically hold something with bent arms - and yes, the last one will help you if you're stood up straight cradling a heavy object HOWEVER neither of these abilities will necessarily make you good at lifting heavy weights off the floor (but guess what will: PRACTISING LIFTING HEAVY WEIGHTS OFF THE FLOOR).

It seems you - like BikeJames - are another self-proclaimed, self-righteous 'professional trainer' - who rather than wanting to engage in constructive, helpful discussion - makes short sound-bite statements like 'TRAIN TO THE MAX!!' - and creates strawman arguments to enable you to critisize other people. For ex. the above post: you criticised me for suggesting that deadlifting ONLY helps a person to better their deadlift (a misinterpretation/exaggeration of what I said) - and then you linked that to my suggesting that training biceps doesn't help in lifting boxes (something I DIDN'T even say or suggest) - and you criticised that! See what I mean? You should go into politics.

Telling me to 'do my research' or 'use my head' is not a way to prove your point. Why don't you present your research, or explain why I am not using my brain properly? Not enough time in your busy schedule?
flag clarkestar
Posted: Feb 21, 2011 at 20:36 Quote
raak wrote:
clarkestar wrote:
You need to do your research. Doing deadlifts doesn't just make you better at deadlifting. that is like saying training your biceps with a barbell won't help you when you have to lift a box. Use your head.

Actually, if you'd bothered to really read my post you'd have seen:

If you deadlift regularly, guess what you'll most improve in: DEADLIFTING! The same with all the other resistance exercies. Now the exercises will make you overall stronger, more powerful and fitter, which is advantageous - but this magic link James promotes between his cosen exercises and riding is overstated and largely unfounded.

And in all fairness, training the biceps will help you do two things: curl a weight by flexing the arms - or isometrically hold something with bent arms - and yes, the last one will help you if you're stood up straight cradling a heavy object HOWEVER neither of these abilities will necessarily make you good at lifting heavy weights off the floor (but guess what will: PRACTISING LIFTING HEAVY WEIGHTS OFF THE FLOOR).

It seems you - like BikeJames - are another self-proclaimed, self-righteous 'professional trainer' - who rather than wanting to engage in constructive, helpful discussion - makes short sound-bite statements like 'TRAIN TO THE MAX!!' - and creates strawman arguments to enable you to critisize other people. For ex. the above post: you criticised me for suggesting that deadlifting ONLY helps a person to better their deadlift (a misinterpretation/exaggeration of what I said) - and then you linked that to my suggesting that training biceps doesn't help in lifting boxes (something I DIDN'T even say or suggest) - and you criticised that! See what I mean? You should go into politics.

Telling me to 'do my research' or 'use my head' is not a way to prove your point. Why don't you present your research, or explain why I am not using my brain properly? Not enough time in your busy schedule?

I`ve stated earlier in either this post or the last that I am most definitely not considering myself a professional yet. My comment that I`m a personal trainer is just to let people know that I`m not just talking directly out of my ass. I have a background in the field I am speaking about. I can back up my statements; however Pinkbike isn`t somewhere I`m worried about wasting my time doing so. I`d rather do that when I am getting paid to do it.

Either way your comment that training deadlifts only MOSTLY makes you better at deadlifting is a pointless statement. What do you want guys to do to train for biking? Trampoline bike? There are many different exercises that will train your legs for everything you need while biking. There is no muscles specified to any particular sport.

So in short what I'm saying, is that your comment isn't very well founded itself.
flag raak
Posted: Feb 21, 2011 at 23:01 Quote
So you don't think engaging in discussion would help you in your work? You only think about training when being paid. Jeez - this is unprofessional. May your methodology forever improve
flag raak
Posted: Feb 21, 2011 at 23:19 Quote
clarkestar wrote:
Either way your comment that training deadlifts only MOSTLY makes you better at deadlifting is a pointless statement. What do you want guys to do to train for biking? Trampoline bike? There are many different exercises that will train your legs for everything you need while biking. There is no muscles specified to any particular sport.

I disagree that it's a pointless statement. The deadlift is a movement which increases strength (and one of the best ones). Someone hwo regularly trains the deadlift will become stronger and stronger - but this is not necassary in riding. Look at the pros, they are not particularly big strong guys. Their bodies have adapted to RIDING. That is what they're strong at doing, and it is this focus which makes them good at their sport. And of course specific muscles are used in specific sports!
flag crankinstein
Posted: Feb 22, 2011 at 3:40 Quote
raak wrote:
clarkestar wrote:
Either way your comment that training deadlifts only MOSTLY makes you better at deadlifting is a pointless statement. What do you want guys to do to train for biking? Trampoline bike? There are many different exercises that will train your legs for everything you need while biking. There is no muscles specified to any particular sport.

I disagree that it's a pointless statement. The deadlift is a movement which increases strength (and one of the best ones). Someone hwo regularly trains the deadlift will become stronger and stronger - but this is not necassary in riding. Look at the pros, they are not particularly big strong guys. Their bodies have adapted to RIDING. That is what they're strong at doing, and it is this focus which makes them good at their sport. And of course specific muscles are used in specific sports!

I believe the question at hand is How do you suggest someone train for riding? Yes a deadlift, like any other exercise, will make you stronger, if you keep with a low-rep/increasing weight routine. However, if you were to do the same exercises using a high-rep/lower weight set the result would be muscular endurance instead of just strength. Does that sound like something that might be useful on the bike?

So the statement that "training deadlifts only MOSTLY makes you better at deadlifting" is not really pointless, just either misguided or incomplete.
flag raak
Posted: Feb 22, 2011 at 7:59 Quote
crankinstein wrote:
I believe the question at hand is How do you suggest someone train for riding? Yes a deadlift, like any other exercise, will make you stronger, if you keep with a low-rep/increasing weight routine. However, if you were to do the same exercises using a high-rep/lower weight set the result would be muscular endurance instead of just strength. Does that sound like something that might be useful on the bike?

So the statement that "training deadlifts only MOSTLY makes you better at deadlifting" is not really pointless, just either misguided or incomplete.

Very good point. This area is a matter of opinion, and in my opinion, deadlifting for high reps in inadvisable. And here's why:

Long sets (inevitably) lead to bad form (towards the last reps of the set). To put it simply: if you arent struggling towards the end of a 20 rep set - you arent going heavy enough to actually get any worthy benefits from the lift.

So that's an issue - form getting worse.

Also, the deadlift requires a lot of effort from the shoulder girdle - take the AC joint for instance (joint which connects clavicle to scapula); this joint is often injured through deadlifting. In fact, the joint always separates slightly when a deadlift is performed. It is very vulnerable. And I would say especially to riders (many of whom already have existing shoulder issues) - this is something to be aware of. Making this worse is that when deadlifting, your legs and back will be able to handle much more work than (for instance) your poor AC joint.

So another issue - the overall stress prolonged sets put on the body.

So if, for instance, you broke a 20 rep set into 4 x 5, you would ensure that all 20 reps were exectuted properly and that no undue stress was put on the shoulders (in theory, of course).

I believe it is possible to get strong and also be healthy - but it requires careful thought and consideration. It is about weighing up the good and the bad, and from what I have come to know, the bad outweighs the good in terms of regular high-rep deadlifting. In other words, a similar level of muscle endurance can be achieved using different exercises, ones that don't seem to pose so much of a risk.
flag clarkestar
Posted: Feb 22, 2011 at 13:36 Quote
raak I actually agree with you on this. Crankenstein- lower weight with more reps works. But as raak has cleverly pointed out(something I actually did forget about) is that it is harder on your shoulders with high weight. However if you lessen the weight and split your reps into 3 or 4 reps(ultimately still acheiving 20) than you will be training your legs more for endurance. This is best put into place with a longer series of exercises than the typical 3 or 4. I like going with 5 or 6 exercises in a series when training legs. It is just another style of workout. Abs is fun to do with about 10 exercises in a row. rest. go into a 7 exercise set. rest. go into a 5 exercise set. than jump into some kickboxing. just for fun. Remember, these programs have to be designed carefully to hit all the core muscles and exhaust all of them. Did it yesterday and it was great.

There are endless different styles of workout programs. It takes yeeeaaars to find the best ones and even then it is all personal. the best workouts are the ones that you enjoy. cause you work harder, dedicate yourself to getting better form. keep your routine fresh.
flag raak
Posted: Feb 23, 2011 at 9:45 Quote
clarkestar wrote:
There are endless different styles of workout programs. It takes yeeeaaars to find the best ones and even then it is all personal. the best workouts are the ones that you enjoy. cause you work harder, dedicate yourself to getting better form. keep your routine fresh.

Absolutely. The important thing here can be ground down to MUSCLE ACTIVATION. The more a muscle is activated, the stronger it becomes. How the activation is achieved is not really important, but the best way has to be judged from information such as goals, past injuries, genetics (build of body), current physical condition, etc, etc.

I am very critical of anyone who thinks they can tell me (or anyone else they don't know) exactly how to train - yet this type of thing happens, and people are making money from it.
flag PLC07
Posted: Feb 27, 2011 at 13:42 Quote
This is my little story:

I used to do a lot of strength training and crossfit prior to my first DH season ever and I got pretty strong and enduring. I got pretty good real quick at DH (as usual when you start a new sport) and it was fun. Didn't get too tired too fast and I could survive through big riding days.

Between season 1 and 2 I got bored of crossfit and started doing rock climbing. So you can guess than during season 2, I don't think I ever was the victim of the famous ''arm pump'' syndrome. Although, since rock climbing doesnt work your lower back much, it didn't take too long that my lower back got tired during runs so bad that at some points I didn't know how to position myself on the bike anymore haha. My explosion also suffered a great deal.

So this is my little project, in preparation of season 3:

Stronglift 5x5 - http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

Not sure if it's still free. It used to be but the guy got greedy I guess (not blaming him, everybody has to make a living). It's a strength training program inspired from a lot of the proven ones out there. I like it because it's not time consuming and it's straigth forward. No gimmick, no bullshit like 99,9% of the stuff out there. You train 3 times a week alternating between 2 routines.

it looks like that:

Day A:

Squat 5x5
benchpress 5x5
inverted rows 3x5 (weighted)
Push ups 3x5 (with bands or weight)
Reverse crunches 3x12

Day B:

Squat 5x5
Overhead press 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Pull ups 3x5 (weighted)
Prone bridgex 3x30sec (weigthed)

It does work, I'm 3 months in and so far I can deadlift 205pounds squat 175 and benchpress 145lbs with pristine form at a bodyweight of 145 pounds which I find pretty good for someone who started from scratch with empty bars. I also lost around 8% of body fat during the process which is always nice.

So yeah, I really ain't no expert but from personal experience I know that being strong helps a lot. Strength increases explosiveness potential and can always be converted to endurance if the needs be. Do not overlook that squatting heavy works you stabilizers a whole lot which helps a lot with balance. I add in some hiit sessions on a stationary bike to that for good cardio (which I also learned the hard way that it's crucial to success for DH) and I should be good for next season. I'll do more cardio when I can get the roadbike out. The only thing I probably need is an accessory exercise to work on arm pump since I don't rock climb anymore.

Eating well and resting a lot is still more important than all that though.

I still believe that riding a bike is by far the best exercise to do to become better at riding your bike but a lot of us can't during the winter. I also happen to like strength training a lot so yeah, even if it's an epic fail, I had fun doing it and that's all that matters in the end.

If you have any comment or suggestion, they're welcome.
flag brooce
Posted: Feb 27, 2011 at 13:49 Quote
bigquotesThe only thing I probably need is an accessory exercise to work on arm pump since I don't rock climb anymore.

http://www.bikejames.com/strength/arm-pump-exercises-with-aaron-gwin/ - may be helpful Wink
flag PLC07
Posted: Jun 25, 2011 at 18:09 Quote
brooce wrote:
bigquotesThe only thing I probably need is an accessory exercise to work on arm pump since I don't rock climb anymore.

http://www.bikejames.com/strength/arm-pump-exercises-with-aaron-gwin/ - may be helpful Wink

It ends up that armpump wasn't an issue at all this season. I guess the grip strength I got with deadlifts transfered to biking.

And yeah, that program and the other one I did afterward helped a lot. The first few days on the mountains were quite sketchy and my cardio isn't exactly where I wanted it to be but now I can do top to bottom runs without stopping for quite a few hours and I still have some energy left when I leave the mountain. I'm pretty much like... 25% faster than last season. Needless to say, this is quite a big improvement and I'm happy that all this time in the gym worked out for the best. You never really know how you'll end up with you start programs but the results are definitely there today.
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