What products do you want to see in 2010/2011?

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What products do you want to see in 2010/2011?
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flag thecarpy
Posted: Oct 10, 2011 at 12:45 Quote
It's already being used....Cannondale, Scott....
flag dr-salt
Posted: Oct 11, 2011 at 14:50 Quote
I know, but thats not what i meant.
i mean as widely available as remote lockout on forks, like the talas should just come with a remote.
flag morpheous
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 12:33 Quote
scrippsranchDJ wrote:
What about the drag?

What drag? With the Hammerschmidt there is no drag other than the normal rear cassette paws....see what I mean about a "mis-understood" system?
flag morpheous
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 12:35 Quote
rokor wrote:
morpheous wrote:
SRAM needs to resurrect the misunderstood Hammerschmidt with the addition of one more gear ratio (3 speed) then apply it to the DH market.(eliminating the antiquated and silly exposed rear der/cogset, centralizing drive train mass, simplifying the chain line, allowing stronger rear wheel builds(less dish), and most importantly reducing unsprung mass on the swingarm.) Just need to add/develpo the 3rd speed, a right hand shifter, and a front lower roller tensioner for chain growth.Comon guys, this is a good product with plenty of R&D into it already!? IMO 3 speeds are plenty for most DH riders, you just have to hit the right ratios. You can do it!

Couldn't agree more. Another issue to work on though, is weight.

Maybe, but weight is less an issue when centralized and low on the bike, not hanging off the swingarm.....
flag Nobble
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 12:39 Quote
morpheous wrote:
scrippsranchDJ wrote:
What about the drag?

What drag? With the Hammerschmidt there is no drag other than the normal rear cassette paws....see what I mean about a "mis-understood" system?
it has a sun gear setup inside it, those gears have a higher surface area which means more friction which means drag

a derailleur is only 200g
flag whattheheel
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 12:43 Quote
morpheous wrote:
scrippsranchDJ wrote:
What about the drag?

What drag? With the Hammerschmidt there is no drag other than the normal rear cassette paws....see what I mean about a "mis-understood" system?

Oh there is drag. I don't know if I would really call it drag but you defo lose some power in overdrive.....
flag sherbet
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 13:08 Quote
It's mechanical drag, and it's definitely there.
flag bonfire
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 13:20 Quote
Also bearing drag as well.

If the derailleur is such a shitty concept, then it wouldn't have lasted so long. It doesn't weigh a ton, and works well. No complicated gear systems, any mechanic can work on it.
flag ninjatarian
Posted: Oct 13, 2011 at 20:59 Quote
morpheous wrote:
SRAM needs to resurrect the misunderstood Hammerschmidt with the addition of one more gear ratio (3 speed) then apply it to the DH market.(eliminating the antiquated and silly exposed rear der/cogset, centralizing drive train mass, simplifying the chain line, allowing stronger rear wheel builds(less dish), and most importantly reducing unsprung mass on the swingarm.) Just need to add/develpo the 3rd speed, a right hand shifter, and a front lower roller tensioner for chain growth.Comon guys, this is a good product with plenty of R&D into it already!? IMO 3 speeds are plenty for most DH riders, you just have to hit the right ratios. You can do it!

I like hammerschidt but it would need a lot of work to make it a better option than a derailleur for what you describe. Thing is, you would have to run a tensioner on a DH bike anyway, and if that tensioner can also be used to switch gears, any number you want between 1 and 10... hammerschimt would need to loss A LOT of weight offer something else to make it preferable.
flag morpheous
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 at 6:19 Quote
I think you all may be confusing "drag" with "efficiency loss" , yes there is some pedaling efficiency loss with a planetary gear system, but no additional drag is introduced by it at the crank location. A front mount lower roller tensioner can be easily added to the Hammerschmidt for chain growth consideration. Why get rid of the rear der.? because they get bent, damaged, and ripped off by rocks and stumps. Internal gearing makes much more sense for DH and most MTB use considering the exposure to the elements and hazards. These type systems do introduce additional mass, which is why they need to be centralized and not used in the rear hub. (See the Zerode DH bike design utilizing the Shimano Alfine 8 rear hub as a "gearbox"-also available in 11 speed now with oil bath and same weight) The benefit is maintenance free sure shifting (pedaling or not). These are big advantages for DH and many types of freeriding. I contend that lift served DH only requires 2-4 speeds at most which is why the Hammerschmidt is a good solution.

@ bonfire, with that type of outlook, we all would still be riding horses to get around! :-0
flag bonfire
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 at 7:04 Quote
I disagree completely. I think downhill benefits greatly from 9 speeds. Sure downhill ripping is tons of fun, but then your round that corner and there is a sharp up hill to the next descent?

There is drag in a hammerschmidt, when coasting, instead of 3 or 6 or 9 pawls and two little bearings, you now have an entire gear system that is running, there is also issue of internal friction of the gears themselves. I am sure you have tried turning one by hand off the bike. It is smooth, but stiff.

It is a cool idea, and maybe if they made the gears out of some sort of composite, it would be neat, especially if they were self lubricating. But running just the two front speeds, I don't think is anywhere near enough for DH.

I also have never torn anything decent off my bike. Broken a bunch of cheapo derailleurs but then bought XO and have been fine, and I crash, a lot.

Oh by the way, they have finally developed a wireless bike disc brake.
flag scrippsranchDJ
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 at 8:01 Quote
3 speed hammerschmidt would be dumb. The ratios would either be too close or too far apart. And its drag would only be more pronounced in this 3 speed version you want. Imo its a bad idea. Gearboxes are WAY better. The gearbox designed into a chainring will have drag issues due to size limitations on the bike and having to be redesigned to fit.
flag morpheous
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 at 8:34 Quote
bonfire wrote:
Oh by the way, they have finally developed a wireless bike disc brake.

We can disagree on the HS idea for DH.

On the wireless braking actuation (by squeezing the grip): You will crash even more when you go to pull on your bars to get over an obstacle and accidentally brake with the wireless braking setup. Its a solution without a problem. (about as good as grip shifting or the STI integrated lever/shifters for MTB)
flag bonfire
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 at 9:05 Quote
Yeah, I donno how I like that idea. Same issue with gripshift, except it would f*ck you so much harder.

The problem with a gearbox, unless it is simply a derailleur in a can, is the drag yet again. You are putting out 1/2 horsepower, every little bit of drag counts. The RN01 before their derailleur in a can had like a real gearbox, but it was just too inefficient.

I like the idea of a can style gearbox, but is has to be light, it has to be efficient, and allow for no tensioner at the back.

A full composite HS would be sweet, as it would be light enough, and the rings could be wear components, so it would allow you to be self-lubricating.
flag bonfire
Posted: Oct 14, 2011 at 9:09 Quote
wat is happening here Page 300, but no posts?

 


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