24' vs BMX for a tall rider

PB Forum :: Dirt Jumping & Street
24' vs BMX for a tall rider
Author Message
Posted: Sep 8, 2010 at 18:28 Quote
When it comes to cruisers, I found it depends a lot on what you're used to and what you like in a bike. Its not really something that everyone is going to be in love with just because of theory. I tried riding a cruiser and it felt like shit. It didn't hop well, everything I did on it felt like it took so much more work. Eventually I sold it and went back to a 20" BMX. After that I went on to a 24" MTB and can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that for my preferences, they are both far better than that cruiser ever felt.

Posted: Sep 8, 2010 at 18:31 Quote
ezekiel wrote:
When it comes to cruisers, I found it depends a lot on what you're used to and what you like in a bike. Its not really something that everyone is going to be in love with just because of theory. I tried riding a cruiser and it felt like shit. It didn't hop well, everything I did on it felt like it took so much more work. Eventually I sold it and went back to a 20" BMX. After that I went on to a 24" MTB and can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that for my preferences, they are both far better than that cruiser ever felt.

would be more helpful if you tell everyone which cruiser it was, how it was set up, and how tall you are.

Posted: Sep 8, 2010 at 18:35 Quote
You could've just asked what bike it was...

It was a General Lee. I know that's a race oriented bike but it just goes to show that you have to be careful when choosing a cruiser because you can easily end up with something decent for what you're looking to accomplish or something absolutely trash.

P.S. It was stock, I'm 6' tall.

Posted: Sep 8, 2010 at 18:50 Quote
ezekiel wrote:
You could've just asked what bike it was...

It was a General Lee. I know that's a race oriented bike but it just goes to show that you have to be careful when choosing a cruiser because you can easily end up with something decent for what you're looking to accomplish or something absolutely trash.

point taken. .... the General Lee was the "street/park" version of the DK cruisers. their race version was the Fury. for several years the General Lee 24" came with front and rear 14mm axles and thick dropouts so you could run pegs. i agree with you there was something off about the geo: the ratio of front end length to rear end length was off. the one i have (a 2005?) has a 21" top tube and the rear wheel is at 15.25" cs. in other words a mullet frame. short in the front long in the back.... in addition if you actually did run pegs and attempted a double peg grind, your crank arm/bottom bracket area would hit the coping or ledge because of the low-ish amderican bb. and finally, their stock 5" rise handlebars were too low to make up for the long back end. if you ran 6.75" or 7" bars, you can deal with a long back end by leverage, but the combination of low bars and long back end is a killer for manuals, 180 hops etc.

the LIQUID fixes all those problems. it's long in the front and ultra short in the back. making a roomy cruiser for a tall guy but with a back end that still snaps. in addition, bb is high enough for clearance and for better responsiveness but not so high that you feel like you're towering over the bike and hunching down just like on a 20".

Posted: Sep 8, 2010 at 23:15 Quote
cmc4130 wrote:
ezekiel wrote:
You could've just asked what bike it was...

It was a General Lee. I know that's a race oriented bike but it just goes to show that you have to be careful when choosing a cruiser because you can easily end up with something decent for what you're looking to accomplish or something absolutely trash.

point taken. .... the General Lee was the "street/park" version of the DK cruisers. their race version was the Fury. for several years the General Lee 24" came with front and rear 14mm axles and thick dropouts so you could run pegs. i agree with you there was something off about the geo: the ratio of front end length to rear end length was off. the one i have (a 2005?) has a 21" top tube and the rear wheel is at 15.25" cs. in other words a mullet frame. short in the front long in the back.... in addition if you actually did run pegs and attempted a double peg grind, your crank arm/bottom bracket area would hit the coping or ledge because of the low-ish amderican bb. and finally, their stock 5" rise handlebars were too low to make up for the long back end. if you ran 6.75" or 7" bars, you can deal with a long back end by leverage, but the combination of low bars and long back end is a killer for manuals, 180 hops etc.

the LIQUID fixes all those problems. it's long in the front and ultra short in the back. making a roomy cruiser for a tall guy but with a back end that still snaps. in addition, bb is high enough for clearance and for better responsiveness but not so high that you feel like you're towering over the bike and hunching down just like on a 20".

I like the Liquid a lot more than the Sunday/WTP etc, just looks right, plus the reviews seem to be all positive, no complaints. Do they come as completes? And if not, other than rims/tires, will normal BMX parts fit? Cheers

Posted: Sep 9, 2010 at 8:52 Quote
blakemuller wrote:

I like the Liquid a lot more than the Sunday/WTP etc, just looks right, plus the reviews seem to be all positive, no complaints. Do they come as completes? And if not, other than rims/tires, will normal BMX parts fit? Cheers

No, Liquid don't come as completes, but yes all normal BMX parts fit. I think most guys are running either a Sunday fork or an S&M fork.

The complete We The People Avenger 24", is on sale for $399. http://www.actionvillage.com/800-489-0046

You could ride something like that for a while, then get a Liquid frame later and use all the parts. If I remember right, they both have mid bottom bracket and integrated headset. So literally everything will switch over.

The parts from a 2009 Mirraco Icon 20Forty 24" would also fit, except for the Aheadset--you'd have to get an integrated headset. The Mid bottom bracket and 28-12 drivetrain would work.
http://www.winstanleysbmx.com/product/19097/MirraCo_Icon_20Forty_24Inch_Bike_2009

However, don't plan on switching over parts from a race cruiser, because they have a bigger drivetrain. The largest sprocket you can run is a 30t on the Liquid. You would want to run 30/13 or smaller (28/12, 26/11, 25/11, 24/10, 23/10, etc) to have a good gear ratio. And you're not going to find a race cruiser with 13t in the back. Most race cruisers are 39/17 gearing.

So you may want a custom rear wheel. Sun Rhyno Lite XL 24", Arrow, Alex, Odyssey Hazard Lite, Atomlab, are all good 24" rims.



And by the way, here's another 20" comparison to a Liquid 24".

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fi134.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq120%2FRichardWelch%2FDSC_0055.jpg
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fi134.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq120%2FRichardWelch%2FDSC_0057.jpg
from Picture request: side by side 20" and 24" BMX
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230964

Posted: Sep 9, 2010 at 12:38 Quote
See that last pic is just what I'm talking about. My 20 and 24" bikes had the same handle bar height. Richt now my MTB has about 1.5" added height because I pulled the inverted stem off for my cruiser. Think about it, if your BB height is the same your grip height should be the same. Trouble with cruisers is they have larger wheels and to make the crank and sprocket fit is a PAIN whith really short stays, so you end up with a longer bike. All said on the race track, the longer stays is not such a big deal just (not even enought to really feel) stability. In the park, yes every hop is more work, dirt jumps again just more flow. Still a massive differance if you grew up on a 20". The General lee is pretty much a POS. As much as I wished it was good, it was just not. The front end was too short, the rear end way too long. Weak wheels made it feel mushy but unfortunatly changing parts on that bike was a waste of time. I even cut the rear end off mine and welded on a shorter one and it's good for a kids bike.

Don't have a shot of my BMX but here is a 24" MTB and cruiser.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj247/ricar73/SBMXvBMX.jpg

That was the General lee frame before it met my grinder. You can see where the BB is and it is way forward of the MTB, but the wheel base is pretty much the same. So the front end was about 2" too short and the rear about 2" too long.

Posted: Sep 9, 2010 at 13:22 Quote
[Quote="cmc4130"]
blakemuller wrote:


And by the way, here's another 20" comparison to a Liquid 24".

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fi134.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq120%2FRichardWelch%2FDSC_0055.jpg
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fi134.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq120%2FRichardWelch%2FDSC_0057.jpg
from Picture request: side by side 20" and 24" BMX
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230964

The Cruiser doesn't seem to look that much bigger that a BMX, is it just an illusion, because the only thing I can see that's different is the wheel size.

The Cruiser/ 24 MTB side by side was also interesting. It seems the MTB has a longer cockpit, or is this just beacuse the General Lee has crappy geometry? Cheers

Posted: Sep 9, 2010 at 13:42 Quote
blakemuller wrote:

The Cruiser doesn't seem to look that much bigger that a BMX, is it just an illusion, because the only thing I can see that's different is the wheel size.

The Cruiser/ 24 MTB side by side was also interesting. It seems the MTB has a longer cockpit, or is this just beacuse the General Lee has crappy geometry? Cheers

It depends on the bike and parts setup.

There are some guys--especially bmx racers, who race both cruiser and 20"--who set their cruiser and 20" up to be very similar in terms of stance height and reach.

However, guys who already feel too cramped on a 20" are going to deliberately set the cruiser up bigger.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/cockpitsize-blackmarketsoldier.jpg
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh138/upsetbmx/geometry-BMX.jpg

Posted: Sep 9, 2010 at 21:32 Quote
So with a little bit of trigonometry, you can work out the "real" top tube length of a MTB (they always seem to have large slants in the top tube)

Posted: Sep 10, 2010 at 6:14 Quote
[Quote="blakemuller"]
cmc4130 wrote:
blakemuller wrote:

from Picture request: side by side 20" and 24" BMX
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230964

The Cruiser doesn't seem to look that much bigger that a BMX, is it just an illusion, because the only thing I can see that's different is the wheel size.

The Cruiser/ 24 MTB side by side was also interesting. It seems the MTB has a longer cockpit, or is this just beacuse the General Lee has crappy geometry? Cheers


Did you even read the post or just look at the pretty pictures?

Actual TT length is the actual length of the TT. Theoretical TT length is the length the TT would be if the seat tube were long enough to measure a flat line fron the head tube to the seat tube, which is a better measurement.

AS far as setting up your bike, cruiser to BMX, it's simple preferance. When you look at the Duce Duce, that bike as a 20" will be as big as about any cruiser frame and can be made to feel longer. Put some ape hangers on it and it's a giant. The differance between cruisres and 20s is they GENERALLY have a longer rear end to fit the larger wheel. Compared to pak, street ect frames, race oriented 20" frames are also generally longer in the rear. So cruisers will GENERALLY feel longer. They also have larger wheels, so more centrifugal force (this of course depends largely on rim,tire choice) and less rolling resistance. The centrifugal force affects cornering , spinning and how the bike feels in the air. They also generally have a slightly slacker head angle73-73.5 compared to the sleepy MTB frames 69-72 for a 24" frame. This means less twitchy in the corners but also more traction, less twitchy in the air due to the rotational mass. They will feel slower than a 20" but on the ground they are actually faster. In the air all your imput will be slowed, so tricks are a bit harder, but they will be more stable. This is why when you jump a cruiser after jumping a 20" you feel the "flow" cruisers are famous for.

Posted: Sep 27, 2010 at 15:09 Quote
Guys, i have a question. What is the difference between a Cruiser and a 24"?

Posted: Sep 27, 2010 at 16:28 Quote
Well they are both 24s. If you ride BMX and are used to that scene, then you will call a cruiser a cruiser or a 24. If you are into the MTB scene then a 24 is a 24" wheeled MTB. Cruisers are less likely to come by and 24" MTBs are pretty well everywhere so MOST guys are refering to the MTBs.

Posted: Sep 30, 2010 at 9:50 Quote
stefmkd wrote:
Guys, i have a question. What is the difference between a Cruiser and a 24"?

ricar wrote:
Well they are both 24s. If you ride BMX and are used to that scene, then you will call a cruiser a cruiser or a 24. If you are into the MTB scene then a 24 is a 24" wheeled MTB. Cruisers are less likely to come by and 24" MTBs are pretty well everywhere so MOST guys are refering to the MTBs.

i guess the Canadian scene is different, because there are very few 24" mtb's around here. there are very few companies (carried by local bike shops anyway) which offer a complete 24"-specific dirt jumper mtb. (by the way I'm not referring to youth-sized mtb's--we're talking about 24"-specific dirt jumper mtb's meant for a full-sized rider).

i have a Union Street Molly, one of my friends has a Molly, one guy had an Eastern Night Train 24" but that bike got discontinued, and I have seen a few random guys on P.Street 24"s, which have also been discontinued. almost everyone who is into dirt jump mtb's has a 26". i think the reason is that park riding on mtb has not caught on here at all. we don't have any bike-friendly cement parks, and the one indoor park that was bmx-friendly recently shut down. so it's all dirt.

on the other hand, there are tons of BMX 24" cruisers in Austin. almost every bike shop that sells 20" BMX also has at least one 24". consequently you'll see lots of guys just cruising to class on one, even if they barely ride bmx. tons of DK Cygnus 24", Haro Backtrail 24", and increasingly We The People Avenger 24" and Sunday Model C 24"

Posted: Sep 30, 2010 at 21:17 Quote
I have to move.


 
Copyright © 2000 - 2019. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv56 0.026803
Mobile Version of Website