Pull up or push down bars on transition of lip?

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Pull up or push down bars on transition of lip?
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flag stevehollx
Posted: Oct 20, 2010 at 20:28 Quote
I know it's elusive to ask this on a forum since it's just second nature for anyone doing it for a while, but...

I'm having problems not getting pop off of the lip of a jump, even at pretty high speed. I feel like I'm jumping it too much like a race, and stay low and sucking up the pop of the jump. I think it is because I am pulling up on the handlebars during the transition of the lip, which is cause me to absorb the bike's pop into my body and not launch my body as high in the air.

On the transition of the lip, before the front wheel leaves the group, what do you do with your arms? Do you keep them stiff. Do you crouch down before the transition and then extend your arms (pushing your body upwards from the bars) at the transition?

I know that once I'm in the air to pull the bars up into my body and bend the legs and push forward, but I'm wondering why I'm not boosting the jump like I feel I should.
flag trekriderOWS16
Posted: Oct 20, 2010 at 20:38 Quote
stevehollx wrote:
I know it's elusive to ask this on a forum since it's just second nature for anyone doing it for a while, but...

I'm having problems not getting pop off of the lip of a jump, even at pretty high speed. I feel like I'm jumping it too much like a race, and stay low and sucking up the pop of the jump. I think it is because I am pulling up on the handlebars during the transition of the lip, which is cause me to absorb the bike's pop into my body and not launch my body as high in the air.

On the transition of the lip, before the front wheel leaves the group, what do you do with your arms? Do you keep them stiff. Do you crouch down before the transition and then extend your arms (pushing your body upwards from the bars) at the transition?

I know that once I'm in the air to pull the bars up into my body and bend the legs and push forward, but I'm wondering why I'm not boosting the jump like I feel I should.
well for me i kinda like bunny hop off the lip. i dont know if you ride HT or not but like i'll kick down into the tranny then pop off it with my legs and pull up with my arms a bit sort of like a bunny hop if that makes sense.
flag samuelity
Posted: Oct 20, 2010 at 20:40 Quote
think this before you hit a jump "pull up, push out"
flag stevehollx
Posted: Oct 20, 2010 at 20:43 Quote
The 'bunny hop at the lip' thing never worked for me. That's what I try to do--go fast, pull up the bars at the lip, and then bend my legs to suck my back end in as a push forward. However, this results in zero pop. Here's a video of me hitting some jumps about two months ago:

http://www.facebook.com/v/655355046315

What I'm talking about regarding pushing down through the tranny, I think, is described here (though it doesn't look like it in the picture):
http://books.google.com/books?id=uSBG1nQoppsC&pg=PA101&lpg=PA101&dq=push+down+arms+bike+jump&source=bl&ots=Fxh1OLSS2u&sig=47JKuh5FZtgeJBtk3Hz8IOgltDA&hl=en&ei=NrW_TNHWA4S8lQfVue2QCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=push%20down%20arms%20bike%20jump&f=false

My worry is that pushing on the bars through the transition--isn't that going to make the nose dive at launch? Is pulling the bars up as the wheel leaves the lip critical to compensate for this?
flag samuelity
Posted: Oct 20, 2010 at 21:09 Quote
you push as you are going to the landing. / push \ (the slashes are the lip and landing)
flag exposure
Posted: Apr 26, 2011 at 15:47 Quote
I know this died a while back, but I just wanted to ask (as a person relatively new to jumping "proper" jumps).. as you get to the lip of a jump, do you have to pull up - is that the trick? Also, with steep jumps, do I have to do anything different to normal? Thanks.
flag cmc4130
Posted: Apr 26, 2011 at 16:06 Quote
if you ever get a chance to spend a lot of time on a well-designed pump track, you will start to realize that most of your pump comes from your feet, not your hands.

your feet are in a stance much like a skateboard, snowboard, or wakeboard. they are pushing both wheels into the ground--even more so the rear triangle (most of your pump comes from the rear triangle of your bike--this is why full suspension bikes are so strange on pump tracks).

so next time you're riding jumps, try to visualize that you are actually on a skateboard/snowboard/mountain board whatever and that you are going to literally 'jump.' the way you pull the front end up is kind of the same way skateboarders ollie--front end comes up first and you flatten out--but the real height of the ollie still comes from jumping with your legs.

this how-to is slightly off topic because he's talking about airs on quarter-pipes but it does help to think about on regular jumps as well.
Tom Dugan: "How to Air a Quarter Pipe" -- https://vimeo.com/20830044


this is a little goofy, but look at animals. they're actually boosting with their back legs going up in the front first then flattening out:

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.scradmin.org/albums/October-2006-Three-Dominant-Colors/Jumping_Dog_by_Richard_Paine.jpg
cheating pig
Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/pig-bounce-trampoline-garden-jump-1264682442i.jpg
flag exposure
Posted: Apr 26, 2011 at 16:15 Quote
Thank you - that's a very helpful way of thinking about it! I guess I also wanted to know how to avoid the feeling of being chucked forwards as soon as I leave the jump, the feeling that you're going to go over the front..
flag cmc4130
Posted: Apr 26, 2011 at 16:51 Quote
exposure wrote:
Thank you - that's a very helpful way of thinking about it! I guess I also wanted to know how to avoid the feeling of being chucked forwards as soon as I leave the jump, the feeling that you're going to go over the front..

the key there is that you should think about centering your weight over your bottom bracket or the middle of your cranks. just like that's where your weight would be if your feet were on a skateboard, (or how a dog boosts from the back legs, heh heh) ...

even on a skateboard, to ollie you usually move your front foot back to let the front end come up first, like this:

photo


Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://blog.alvo.at/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/CAV_4311.jpg
. . . . so if you're riding and your[/P] weight is centered towards the front of the bike, you're not allowing the front end to come first. bmx and 4x racers do this when they are deliberately trying to stay low.

however, if you're trying to jump high, center your weight back from the bars, over your feet--this will let the front end naturally come up easier (you don't really have to pull that much, the jump does it for you). if the front end comes up first then you can boost and flatten out. you will not go OTB (over the bars).




Pro rider Jeremiah Work boosting high and moto-whipping off a medium sized mellow-ish jump (not super big or steep). You'll notice that he has centered back, letting the front end come up, and standing tall in order to jump/boost UP.
photo
photo
photo
photo


if you're still not getting the jumping UP part.... think about how you would run and jump over a bmx jump. you would bend your knees and actually try to boost off the surface to get height. you wouldn't be leaned way forward you would sorta be standing tall on the takeoff.

Unsecure image, only https images allowed: http://www.vectorstock.com/assets/preview/16724/jumping-sequence-vector.jpg
flag exposure
Posted: Apr 27, 2011 at 4:00 Quote
Thank you again for all of that (including the amusing pictures) - it makes it a lot clearer for me. Next time I'm out, I'll try it Smile I think I just needed another way to look at it all, because I find it hard to imagine my trajectory as I leave the jump.
flag exposure
Posted: May 1, 2011 at 13:40 Quote
Well, I went out jumping today - on doubles as it happens because there was nothing else where I was.. every time, I just leant back a bit more than I normally would, let the front come up, then flattened out and put the nose down for the landing. (Thinking of the animals of course)

Thank you very much for your help, cmc4130!! Smile

Now to try bigger ones, and get my confidence up..
flag cmc4130
Posted: Jul 17, 2013 at 6:53 Quote
As a bump up on this thread....
I would suggest watching these videos !

Chase Hawk "How to MotoWhip"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWp5zOWUksw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Jon Faure "How to Dirt Jump When You Suck"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elgCynkFwys&feature=youtube_gdata_player
flag PeixeCruiser
Posted: Jul 17, 2013 at 21:32 Quote
I feel your pain. I'm the epitome of white man can't jump. LOL Then again, I have no vertical leap for anything else either, so I just attributed that to the same thing. In racing, I manual or pedal manual most obstacles depending on its design, but if I have the speed and the jump is small enough, I'll just float the jump. Don't need air for that, just enough speed.
flag riotron
Posted: Jul 19, 2013 at 8:51 Quote
Just a quick question if you do a bunny hop on the lip. how can i do a trick when i am in the air? my feet are bent because of my bunny hop..
flag cmc4130
Posted: Jul 19, 2013 at 10:37 Quote
riotron wrote:
Just a quick question if you do a bunny hop on the lip. how can i do a trick when i am in the air? my feet are bent because of my bunny hop..

Although bunny hop off the lip is the way most people start out, like with ditches and flatter jumps, with a steeper transition you are more just boosting like trampoline style. And just like trampolines you can do anything in the hang time.
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