Aggresive Hardtails Post Em !

PB Forum :: Freeride & Slopestyle
Aggresive Hardtails Post Em !
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Posted: May 16, 2022 at 18:22 Quote
Brasher wrote:
Picking the brains of your hardtailers a bit here.

I haven't owned one since 1997 so it's basically like starting all over again.

Do you guys set up your fork different to a dually? Ie is there a rule of thumb that you need more support in a hardtail fork than a dual sus?

Reason I ask, on my Torrent, at 160mm travel that should give me a 63.6 Deg H/A which is plenty slack, but I feel like i'm pivoting forward more than I would like, the fork is set up 15% sag (92psi, fox 36) and 2 spacers, so it's a firm setup.

Or is more a setup thing? Maybe raise bar height more? I have 35mm under the stem but only a 20mm rise, I typically set all my bikes up with bar height (at the grip) at my bellybutton height and that's a good spot for me. I like them very high from my DH days.

Perhaps a shorter stem too?

TLDR; feeling like I'm pitching forward on my first hardtail since jesus rode one.

I’m sure others are different but I have over forked every hardtail I’ve had and run the same sag as my fs…. Between 20-25%. I also prefer a higher stack height and have the same 50mm rise bar on all of my bikes. Preferring to stand more and coming from a dirt bike, the higher rise feels much more jump friendly. It’s definitely a different feeling from fs but are so much more fun to ride

Posted: May 16, 2022 at 18:41 Quote
Brasher wrote:
Picking the brains of your hardtailers a bit here.

I haven't owned one since 1997 so it's basically like starting all over again.

Do you guys set up your fork different to a dually? Ie is there a rule of thumb that you need more support in a hardtail fork than a dual sus?

Reason I ask, on my Torrent, at 160mm travel that should give me a 63.6 Deg H/A which is plenty slack, but I feel like i'm pivoting forward more than I would like, the fork is set up 15% sag (92psi, fox 36) and 2 spacers, so it's a firm setup.

Or is more a setup thing? Maybe raise bar height more? I have 35mm under the stem but only a 20mm rise, I typically set all my bikes up with bar height (at the grip) at my bellybutton height and that's a good spot for me. I like them very high from my DH days.

Perhaps a shorter stem too?

TLDR; feeling like I'm pitching forward on my first hardtail since jesus rode one.

When you compress a hardtail only the fork goes down, so you're not imagining the feeling of pitching forward. I set up my bikes with handlebar height relative to the saddle. The destination for fit is just about the pedals, saddle, and grips, Everything else is how you got there but doesn't matter in the end (for fit! There are of course handling considerations for stem length, head tube angle, fork offset, etc.). BUT on a hardtail, especially one with a long travel fork, you need the static handlebar height to be higher, relative to the saddle, than it would be on a hardtail.

I set up my hardtails to have a handlebar height relative to saddle *at sag* matched to my FS bikes when they are static. Based on how you set up your bike, and the fact that you say you like a high bar, I'd raise your handlebar by a good bit.

Also, you're going to steepen the head tube angle by lot when the fork compresses . That 63.5 HTA turns into 65.2 at 25% sag and 70.4 at bottom out for a 160mm fork.

Posted: May 16, 2022 at 19:06 Quote
Thanks for that both of you, I was leaning towards the higher bar height aswell. I've setup countless bikes over the years, but admittedly not many HT's.

like I posted before, my ideal bar height is bellybutton height, and usually my saddle height is the same. So it was in line with my previous setups, maybe just not high enough.

As you said, there is only downwards movement at the front, so static bar height is always going to need to be a lot higher than sagged and will only get lower as it heads into it's stroke so you need to almost overcompensate for that one way movement. Makes sense Salute

There is some 38mm rise Deity bars here at the shop, that will be a nice fix. I won't chop that steerer just yet.

Posted: May 17, 2022 at 7:05 Quote
I always run forks on hardtails super progressive to combat that diving feeling. Usually with a little more compression damping than I would have on a fully.

Posted: May 17, 2022 at 7:38 Quote
Buggyr333 wrote:
I always run forks on hardtails super progressive to combat that diving feeling. Usually with a little more compression damping than I would have on a fully.

Same. I rarely enter the last 3rd of the travel on my 160 pike on my HT but it just feels better like that. Less seesawing.

Posted: May 17, 2022 at 9:12 Quote
i prefer my compression rather open, but i add close to 10% more pressure to a hardtail fork.

Posted: May 17, 2022 at 14:25 Quote
ScaryGuiTarS wrote:
I may have asked this before, but with this talk about rims and cushcore, any of you here ever own or try those Spank Vibrocore rims? They have me very curious and I don't typically trust commercial promos for products of course, but I saw a demo done by I think GMBN or something and they beat the sh*t out of them and got good results. It's a different story though when you actually hear from a real-life user or owner.

~JSV
Had a #bigboi buddy of mine that rode...heavy, have pretty good luck with them. Rode bike park on a Remedy frequently and they held up pretty damn well for him.

Brasher wrote:
Do you guys set up your fork different to a dually? Ie is there a rule of thumb that you need more support in a hardtail fork than a dual sus?

TLDR; feeling like I'm pitching forward on my first hardtail since jesus rode one.

I tend to like more progressive setup on a hardtail. When I had a fork that I could actually tweak, DVO Diamond, I ran the pressure a little high but had the OTT spring cranked to keep sensitivity good at the top. Otherwise I felt like the fork wouldn't really get into travel that well if I had my weight back.

Posted: May 17, 2022 at 15:06 Quote
Any of you Vendetta guys know the max rear tire size you can run on a 22 X3 29 ????

Posted: May 19, 2022 at 6:23 Quote
riish wrote:

Say more my guy

Posted: May 19, 2022 at 7:34 Quote
It’s a Sour Crumble!
Set it up as a moderately aggressive trail HT, and also use it to log a lot of kms on backroads and hiking trails.
Recently put on a Tannus insert in the back wheel and XTR jockey wheels. Improved shift quality much more than I expected it to, and it’s a bit more forgiving of a ride.

I’ve given up trying to photograph the colour properly, but Sour did an amazing job. Goes between green, blue and purple depending on the angle.

Posted: May 19, 2022 at 8:13 Quote
Sounds like an awesome ride and looks fantastic. Two thumbs up here.

Posted: May 19, 2022 at 16:54 Quote
Yeah big sour fan. Thats a doozie

Posted: May 20, 2022 at 7:16 Quote
[Quote="freestyIAM"]I've posted this eccentric before but now it's got a few new tidbits that have changed the look and feel of the bike.

Eccentric Gang lets gooo!
2022 NS Eccentric Alu 29 EVO Fox 36 Factory Industry 9 Hydra Enduro S wheels XT groupset with Deore Derailler and SLX Cranks Maxxis DHR II and DHF Industry9 Stem Deity bars WTB Saddle and no name post.

Posted: May 20, 2022 at 7:52 Quote
[Quote="Nothing2say"]
freestyIAM wrote:
I've posted this eccentric before but now it's got a few new tidbits that have changed the look and feel of the bike.

Eccentric Gang lets gooo!
2022 NS Eccentric Alu 29 EVO Fox 36 Factory Industry 9 Hydra Enduro S wheels XT groupset with Deore Derailler and SLX Cranks Maxxis DHR II and DHF Industry9 Stem Deity bars WTB Saddle and no name post.

Is it a bike oriented multitool i see back there? Razz

Here is mine, a few new/old bits i wanted to try this season



 
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