Transition TR250 or Transition TR450

PB Forum :: Downhill
Transition TR250 or Transition TR450
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Posted: Jun 22, 2011 at 8:52 Quote
cydaps wrote:
Don't know if anyone can help but I've noticed something with my TR250. I've written on the mechanics forum but to no avail and as some of you have TR250s as well I thought I might be able to make more progress here. Basically as you can see from the pic, my frame is being eaten by my wheel spindle. I've got Deemax and they seem to have a very thin spindle (also attached) and there doesn't appear to be any protection between the frame and the spindle. I actually have to keep tightening the axle as the spindle eats into the frame. It starts creaking when I pedal now. It seems that perhaps there's almost something missing from the frame as there seems to be a recess you can just see around the axle groove that looks as if there might be a washer or something that's supposed to sit there? There's about 2 to 3mm of the spindle that is in contact with the frame, so at the recommended 100in/lbs torque that's a lot of pressure on a tiny area of soft aluminium.

If not, do you think it would be ok to put a 12mm (that's about 3mm thick) between the frame and the hub spindle to prevent this getting worse? This is only 3 rides later, and the creaking is so bad it sounds like it's going to come apart. I've written to Transition on Facebook but so far no reply. Frown Don't want to damage my frame any further.....

Cheers!

Damage to frame from hub spindle
TR250 frame being eaten by my Deemax spindle... not good Guess it s ok to put a 1.5mm thick washer in there to save the frame. Everytime I pedal it creaks and groans as the spindle eats into the frame.... All this after just 3 rides.

Hub spindle, as you can see it's pretty thin compared to most!

Deemax seem to have THE thinest spindle known to man and it s eating my TR250 frame....
If you need to contact Transition Facebook is NOT the way to go. You need to go to the Transition Bikes website then, at the top of the screen you need to click on company, from their scroll down and click on contact us. Call them or most likely email them from one of the given emails and tell them your problem. They will respond through email but not Facebook.
flag cydaps
Posted: Jun 22, 2011 at 9:18 Quote
Northwest-Freerider wrote:
If you need to contact Transition Facebook is NOT the way to go. You need to go to the Transition Bikes website then, at the top of the screen you need to click on company, from their scroll down and click on contact us. Call them or most likely email them from one of the given emails and tell them your problem. They will respond through email but not Facebook.

Ah, hadn't seen that link, thanks for that Northwest-freerider! I'll send them an email and see how we go! Thanks!
flag cydaps
Posted: Jun 22, 2011 at 10:32 Quote
Ok, as an update about the TR250 and Deemax compatibility that I mentioned on here. Spoke to Transition and they agree that the washer is the way forward. A thin 12mm washer is the perfect solution. Awesome, all sorted! Smile
flag neally
Posted: Jun 22, 2011 at 10:47 Quote
cydaps wrote:
Ok, as an update about the TR250 and Deemax compatibility that I mentioned on here. Spoke to Transition and they agree that the washer is the way forward. A thin 12mm washer is the perfect solution. Awesome, all sorted! Smile

Good that it's sorted mateBig Grin .

But kinda disappointing though that a. Transition wouldn't seem to be aware of this and b. the frame has incompatability issues in the first place with what is a very popular and classy wheelset? I mean it's a MAVIC hub it's not exactly an obscure model.

I love Transition but I'd like to think a £2,150.00 frame would be compatable with any wheelset, certainly a highly regarded set such as Deemax.

Must be a TR250 issue only therefore due to the geometry chips as I have a TR450 and the same wheelset and all was fine.

I wonder if this affects other wheelsets as well? Should Transition not be fore-warning people of this through their dealers...?
flag cydaps
Posted: Jun 22, 2011 at 11:44 Quote
neally wrote:
Good that it's sorted mateBig Grin .

But kinda disappointing though that a. Transition wouldn't seem to be aware of this and b. the frame has incompatability issues in the first place with what is a very popular and classy wheelset? I mean it's a MAVIC hub it's not exactly an obscure model.

I love Transition but I'd like to think a £2,150.00 frame would be compatable with any wheelset, certainly a highly regarded set such as Deemax.

Must be a TR250 issue only therefore due to the geometry chips as I have a TR450 and the same wheelset and all was fine.

I wonder if this affects other wheelsets as well? Should Transition not be fore-warning people of this through their dealers...?

Yeah, was a bit of a shock to be the one to find out... especially now that it's damaged the frame to some extent. Nothing too serious but if I wasn't into bike maintenance and builds I perhaps could have had the wheel bolted on in a shop and suddenly found that one day it was through the frame! As you say, Deemax aren't exactly rare.

Hopefully word will spread through the dealer network now, or the frame will come with a washer suitable for all wheelsets. All it needs is the frame beefing up around the geo chips with perhaps a stainless steel face on the inside of the frame around that area and it's sorted. Any thin spindle wheelsets would be affected and to be honest even hubs like Hopes spindles aren't much "fatter" so it's a bit of a weak that spot I hope Transition will improve in future releases of the frame. Yeah, the TR450 isn't affected as axle bolts straight through, no slots for the axle to move back and forth within. Just glad it's sorted and I still love Transition and my TR250! Smile
flag RLCCM
Posted: Jun 25, 2011 at 16:52 Quote
TR450 all the way! Just got mine, simply brilliant!
flag jaame
Posted: Sep 12, 2011 at 2:54 Quote
I saw my first TR250 in the flesh two days ago and I was a bit disappointed. I almost bought one without ever seeing a real one when they first came out but the money was just a tad too much. I eventually bought a Corsair Konig on clearance for less than half as much money, as I rode a TR450 and wasn't blown away.

Now I'm glad I didn't buy a TR250. In my opinion they have a great design, great looks but the engineering is already out of date. I wish it was a Giant TR250, or Specialized TR250 because then the design could be the same but the engineering and tech would be way better.

Of the guys I ride with, one has a Demo 8 2, one has a Lapierre Spicy and tons ride Giant. I know Transition is a small company that can't exploit economies of scale like the big boys but just comparing tube profiles, weld quality, finish quality, and engineering on the small linkage parts leaves Transition miles behind the aforementioned. Five years ago it would have been right up there but now I feel they are old hat in terms of manufacture techniques.

I love their designs.

I want a TR250.

I love the image of Transition.

But I'm not willing to pay top dollar for a bike that isn't top dollar.

No offence to Transition but clearly the factory that manufactures their frames is second rate. I know that's not going to please a lot of people on this thread but if you compare a Transition frame to one from a big manufacturer, it's just not as good in terms of its manufacture.

My advice to the original poster is, try before you buy. You're going to be dropping a shitload of cash on this frame, make sure it's absolutely what you want. For me I was very close to getting one but in the end it just wasn't worth it.

They're asking you to pay a lof of money for image. What can I say, I'm more Honda than Ducati, more Nissan GTR than Ferrari. Ask yourself, is the image of Transition worth a $1000 premium?
flag SthFRider
Posted: Sep 13, 2011 at 18:14 Quote
You pretty much needs to call transition. I have the tr450 with deemax ultimates and don't have an issue at all. Transition has awesome customer service and will help you with any issue. Give them a call. I'm sure they can help. If not the guys at drop n zone know their stuff. Great guys. Bought my 450 from them. Try them as well.Cheers
flag tetonlarry
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 at 8:44 Quote
Jaame, Why would you come into a Transition thread and make comments like that? You are obviously a troll trying to start an argument. All different suspension designs have positives and negatives. I love the way my single pivot TR250 rides. I had a demo before, and I prefer the ride of the 250. The manufacturing is on par with other companies, and most likely manufactured in the same facility. It's not about the image, there are no other bikes that have the geometry dialed as well as this. There is no company that can match the level of customer service of Transition. If you had a problem with your Fox fork and emailed Giant, do you think you would get a response from Lars Stenberg the same day? I doubt it.

The pricing is on par with most other companies. The frame price is virtually the same as a demo. I fail to see validity in any of your statements.
flag cydaps
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:05 Quote
tetonlarry wrote:
Jaame, Why would you come into a Transition thread and make comments like that? You are obviously a troll trying to start an argument. All different suspension designs have positives and negatives. I love the way my single pivot TR250 rides. I had a demo before, and I prefer the ride of the 250. The manufacturing is on par with other companies, and most likely manufactured in the same facility. It's not about the image, there are no other bikes that have the geometry dialed as well as this. There is no company that can match the level of customer service of Transition. If you had a problem with your Fox fork and emailed Giant, do you think you would get a response from Lars Stenberg the same day? I doubt it.

The pricing is on par with most other companies. The frame price is virtually the same as a demo. I fail to see validity in any of your statements.

Absolutely agree with you there tetonlarry. I actually think the quality of the Transition frames is excellent. The suspension works beautiful (perhaps not as well under braking but it suits my style) and I've yet to see a badly welded Transition frame. I'd way rather buy and support a smaller company like Transition than just hand over wads of cash to one of the larger companies for a mass produced frame without any of the individuality of a company like Transition.
flag cydaps
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:06 Quote
SthFRider wrote:
You pretty much needs to call transition. I have the tr450 with deemax ultimates and don't have an issue at all. Transition has awesome customer service and will help you with any issue. Give them a call. I'm sure they can help. If not the guys at drop n zone know their stuff. Great guys. Bought my 450 from them. Try them as well.Cheers

Yeah, I spoke to them a while ago and they were great, very helpful and acknowledge that they hadn't tested out the frame with Deemax hubs so agreed that the washer solution was a good one and wouldn't invalidate the warranty. More than happy with the frame, love riding it and wouldn't change it for anything.
flag thenotoriousmic
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:30 Quote
tetonlarry wrote:
I have a TR250. Completely different bike than a 450. I've ridden both. The 450 is pure DH bike that plows over everything in it's path. It's super plush, and awesome for pure DH. The 450 is like a Cadillac, while the 250 is like a Porsche.

The 250 fits my riding style so much better. Much livelier and more maneuverable. Better for jump trails. As a 150 pound rider, I have never needed a dual crown fork. The 250 is designed around a 7 inch fork, so I still have DH geometry without a dual crown. My bike weighs 37 pounds stock with a 36 Float. The 450 is definitely heavier.

I've also ridden a Norco Shore. The 250 is better in my opinion. It's slacker, lower, and lighter. If your trails are super rough, and steep the 450 would be a better choice. But, if you like smooth A-line style trails with berms and jumps, the 250 is perfect, and the 450 is overkill.

Honestly, after switching from a demo 7 to a TR250, I am in love with the 250. I don't notice any negative effects of the single pivot vs. FSR. I get much more pop of jump lips than I did on the demo, and can hop around the trail with little effort. The 250 is much shorter so I feel naturally centered on the bike, where on the demo 7 (which had a 40mm longer reach!) I always felt like I needed to lean back to be centered. Both frames were size medium, but the 250 is a much smaller bike. Also, the 250 is a smaller bike than a 450. My medium looks like a small, but feels so good.

One more note: The 250 sucks going uphill. It has very little seatpost adjustment, and you can't run a front derailleur. I can turn up the lowspeed compression on the RC4 to eliminate bob, but when I'm riding uphill I'm basically standing the whole time. If you want a bike that can do it all, get a Blindside.
flag thenotoriousmic
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 at 10:30 Quote
That's exactly I think.
flag SthFRider
Posted: Sep 14, 2011 at 11:53 Quote
cydaps wrote:
SthFRider wrote:
You pretty much needs to call transition. I have the tr450 with deemax ultimates and don't have an issue at all. Transition has awesome customer service and will help you with any issue. Give them a call. I'm sure they can help. If not the guys at drop n zone know their stuff. Great guys. Bought my 450 from them. Try them as well.Cheers

Yeah, I spoke to them a while ago and they were great, very helpful and acknowledge that they hadn't tested out the frame with Deemax hubs so agreed that the washer solution was a good one and wouldn't invalidate the warranty. More than happy with the frame, love riding it and wouldn't change it for anything.

right on brotha. shred it up. Your 250 looks sick by the way. Cheer bro
flag jaame
Posted: Sep 22, 2011 at 4:16 Quote
cydaps wrote:
tetonlarry wrote:
Jaame, Why would you come into a Transition thread and make comments like that? You are obviously a troll trying to start an argument. All different suspension designs have positives and negatives. I love the way my single pivot TR250 rides. I had a demo before, and I prefer the ride of the 250. The manufacturing is on par with other companies, and most likely manufactured in the same facility. It's not about the image, there are no other bikes that have the geometry dialed as well as this. There is no company that can match the level of customer service of Transition. If you had a problem with your Fox fork and emailed Giant, do you think you would get a response from Lars Stenberg the same day? I doubt it.

The pricing is on par with most other companies. The frame price is virtually the same as a demo. I fail to see validity in any of your statements.

Absolutely agree with you there tetonlarry. I actually think the quality of the Transition frames is excellent. The suspension works beautiful (perhaps not as well under braking but it suits my style) and I've yet to see a badly welded Transition frame. I'd way rather buy and support a smaller company like Transition than just hand over wads of cash to one of the larger companies for a mass produced frame without any of the individuality of a company like Transition.

I'm not trying to start an argument, just saying what I feel. As I said I really love their designs. The problem is, I live in Taiwan and here a TR250 frame is $2600US, and a Glory 01 complete bike is $2800US. I know that Transition bikes are well made, I'm not saying they are weak or badly welded. What I am saying is that they are made in a small factory with outdated facilities. That's fact, not opinion. If I pay $2600 for a frame in 2011 I want as many as possible of these: internal cable routing, hydroformed tubes, press-fit BB, smooth double welds, lower than average weight, titanium mounting hardware.

I think the TR250 is the coolest design of any bike out there at the moment. For me the problem is that when I look at a TR250 and I look at my Konig I see the same quality of manufacture, the same plain guage tubes, the same fat welds, the same crappy cable guides. Except I paid $1000 for the Konig, not $2600.

Maybe where you live the prices are different but here in Taiwan, the Transition frames are way overpriced. You literally are paying $1000 more than another frame with similar tech.

I'm just waiting for the day a year or two down the track (hopefully) when Giant make a Glory Mini or something with the same mid travel, slacked out, adjustable geometry setup. Or the day that Transition start to price their frames more realistically for this market. Honestly, how many people would buy a Transition frame when they could buy a Glory 01 or Faith for $200 more?

I apologise for the ranting nature of this post. I'm kind of bitter because I really wanted a TR250 and I still do, but I don't want to pay more than I think it's worth. That's it.

 


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