Road Bike Info & Discussion -*ASK ROAD QUESTIONS HERE*-

PB Forum :: Road Cycling and Touring
Road Bike Info & Discussion -*ASK ROAD QUESTIONS HERE*-
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Posted: Apr 30, 2020 at 18:01 Quote
dingus wrote:
stoo61 wrote:
Geez, get a room.


The room will need to be redecorated slightly with some RMR accoutrements.
Oh shit! I forgot about the shrine! lol

Good stuff!

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 10:44 Quote
Well I didn't mean to start another battle- lol I was mainly interested in discussing the relative direction we might see these 'All road' bikes going in the mainstream marketing sense.

I don't think there's a huge difference in rolling speed between 700c and 650b- especially on perfect surfaces. However when you take into consideration all the real world conditions these bikes are exposed to, 700c seems to be the performance cyclists choice, by a small margin.

@Andrew/Singlespeedtoday- I'm totally with you. I probably couldn't tell the difference in rolling resistance between the two wheel sizes in the blind test. I don't race, so any edge in speed really doesn't matter to me. That said, I do most of my non-solo riding with my girlfriend, and my knobby-equipped 700c bike seems to out-roll her 650b semi slicks in almost every scenario! I wish I'd set that up the other way round, as I'm a stronger rider, and I feel silly coasting along with what feels like no effort. I've done my best to look for anything else about the bike that could be holding her up, but to no avail.

Have you had a change to get out on the Ultradynamicos yet? I'd love to know more. Are they a Panaracer product? I'm sorry to admit, I've been avoiding reading up on them, due to an unwarranted mistrust for the Romanceur influencer marketing. All I know, is they sure look awesome.

I'm super glad to see the plethora of wheel size, casing size, and tread combinations available. It really makes it easier to get the bike you have, setup for any sort of riding you might want to do. One of my favourite activities -fitting big tires to old bikes- is easier now than ever before. On the other hand, part of me wonders how sustainable this is in the long run? I can't imagine it being ideal for manufacturers and retailers to produce and stock the same tires in so many wheel and casing sizes.

With 700c being an easy sell in the the mainstream, (now that bikes are coming with proper tire clearance) what is the motivation for tire and bike manufacturers to maintain such a varied inventory? Taking that one step further- I think it's possible we might see a real merger between gravel and XC 29er tire selection in the next few years. With a lot of bikes pushing 50c+ on 700c, why not just a few more millimetres of clearance, and cut tire SKUs in half?

Anyways, there are now so many 650b bikes out there, we will have plenty of options in this format for the foreseeable future, especially from the cool brands.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 11:16 Quote
Setting aside the smaller frame sizes where I think we can all agree 650 over 700 makes sense, the really big advantage of 650x47 (or so) is how much easier it makes packaging. If you look at a lot of the modern frames that can handle 50+mm tires while maintaining road crankset clearance, they have to resort to raised or dropped chainstays, which adds weight/complexity/expense (and also looks stupid imo but that's not a valid concern) and even so doesn't really address things like eTap FD battery clearance, or toe/fender/rack clearance. The other secondary advantage, and I don't really know how big this is because I think the romanceur/radavist crowd over-represents this segment, is old bikes. Being able to cram bigger more modern tires into an old road or touring bike (be it with long-reach calipers or lucky canti stud placement) is a good thing to me.

I'm tall and my gravel bike is carbon and 1X, so I don't have a lot of reason to switch to 650b. But as much as I value streamlining catalogs, I also love how easy it is to keep old road/gravel/touring bikes relevant so I appreciate that 650x47ish tires exist.

I think your point about XC race and gravel tires merging is super interesting, and to a certain degree (Thunder Burt, Maxxlite) that's already happening. But it seems like just as gravel tires are getting wider, so are XC tires (and BMX and road and enduro and nearly every other cycling niche all at the same time).

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 11:21 Quote
For reference, it's almost impossible to find high end new 2.0 tires for gravel purposes. My garage is full of old stock.

650 was extremely good and I could rant for days. Swapped as 700 has more tire options, but that's changing quickly.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 11:43 Quote
crs-one, Great points. Yes, packaging is a lot easier with the smaller wheel size if short chainstays are preferred. Snaking the chainstays between the 'rings and the tire is typically the hardest part of any frame design process.


alreadyupsidedown wrote:
I do most of my non-solo riding with my girlfriend, and my knobby-equipped 700c bike seems to out-roll her 650b semi slicks in almost every scenario!

There are probably variables beyond wheel size, such as rider weight (assuming you're out-rolling her on descents), tire construction - even tube thickness can make a difference.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 12:16 Quote
Yeah, I agree with all of that. And for the record I'm not advocating a contraction of the tire market, I am just curious If we might see one. That's a fair point about XC tires getting bigger, but if the argument stands that 2.25-2.35 is just as fast around an XC race course, we might see that become commonplace in gravel as well. Then again, aero still matters in road riding, so there is a limit.

As for the packaging, that's a super important point, at least as it applies to the bikes available over the last couple years. But looking at the geometry changes that could become commonplace, maybe this is less of an issue?

Up until fairly recently, most bike companies have been fixated on slamming big tires in frames, while doing their absolute darnedest to preserve exact legacy road geometry. 650b really helped with that goal, but things are moving on, and we're okay with an extra 10-25mm of length from and back on bikes that are supposed to be stable anyways.

I happen to own a FGFS bike that is basically the crowning achievement in tire-touching-the-seatpost tucked-ness, and it makes those 700x45c tires feel like 36" wagon wheels. Hilarious to ride, but that's beside the point.

R-M-R wrote:
There are probably variables beyond wheel size, such as rider weight (assuming you're out-rolling her on descents), tire construction - even tube thickness can make a difference.

Eh. Same tubes, same tire manufacturer, so on and so forth. Bike definitely feels more sluggish to me. But it's just an anecdote, not a hill I'm going to die on, from a scientific perspective.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 12:22 Quote
If we're gonna start throwing > 50mm tires on gravel bikes, what's the point?

That's just an XC bike with drop bars at that point. Personally, if I wanted to run tires over 42-45mm I'd just buy a hardtail 29'er.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 12:27 Quote
alreadyupsidedown wrote:
Eh. Same tubes, same tire manufacturer, so on and so forth. Bike definitely feels more sluggish to me. But it's just an anecdote, not a hill I'm going to die on, from a scientific perspective.

No hills and no deaths required. Well, maybe a mild hill for a roll-down test. Just wanted to look at a more complete picture of the variables, and weight is probably the biggest one. It's quite a task to keep up with big guys on descents and I'll always roll away from lighter riders.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 12:39 Quote
For sure, and my statement was really about averaging all the different terrains we ride, where the roll-over and approach angles that you guys discussed come into play.

badbadleroybrown wrote:
That's just an XC bike with drop bars at that point.
Within a certain context, that's probably where the supposed, genre-defining gravel racing portion of this market is headed, or should be.

And yeah, I'm still in it for the pavement, so I have no real need to go beyond 45mm on a multi-purpose road bike.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 14:29 Quote

My new-to-me Salsa Warbird, running 1x Rival and using the front shifter for the dropper post. Feels basically like an XC bike with drop bars, not complaining.

Posted: May 3, 2020 at 15:31 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
If we're gonna start throwing > 50mm tires on gravel bikes, what's the point?

That's just an XC bike with drop bars at that point. Personally, if I wanted to run tires over 42-45mm I'd just buy a hardtail 29'er.

Because it's fun. Regularly swap between 42s and 50s, and they definitely shine in different ways.

Posted: May 4, 2020 at 9:25 Quote
alreadyupsidedown wrote:
Have you had a change to get out on the Ultradynamicos yet? I'd love to know more. Are they a Panaracer product? I'm sorry to admit, I've been avoiding reading up on them, due to an unwarranted mistrust for the Romanceur influencer marketing. All I know, is they sure look awesome.

Yeah, I got out on them briefly. I’m still waiting on my granny gear and some bar tape to show up so I can finish the build! The tires feel really superb on dirt/gravel so far, on road they don’t compare to the 42c Babyshoe Pass tires I was on before. I probably ride something like 30/70 dirt/road so I guess that trade off makes sense for me. I’m willing to sacrifice a little bit of efficiency to maximize the fun! Only time will tell, they sure look cool though! I imagine they will feel a bit better once they have a chance wear in a little bit and I get used to the new tread. They are made by Panaracer, which is a good thing in my book!

I also got his Crust Towel Rack bars in the smallest 61cm size. I was totally skeptical at first to be honest, but curiosity got the better of me, and they actually feel pretty excellent with lots of useful hand positions and some drop dead gorgeous bends. The width is measured to the ends, and there is a bit of flare built in, so riding on the hoods doesn’t feel significantly different than my previous all time favorite bars, the 48cm Nitto Noodle 177. I had to swap out my 110mm stem for a 90mm one to maintain my usual riding position with the extra width.

Posted: May 5, 2020 at 19:06 Quote
Would an SLX brake lever be compatible with a either a Shimano 105 or GRX caliper? I was going to just put a flat mount to post mount adapter on the frame, but it doesnt fit. What other options do I have for this?


 
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