Light 8" DH + a 4x bike ideas?

PB Forum :: Downhill
Light 8" DH + a 4x bike ideas?
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flag stephbowcycle
Posted: Sep 28, 2007 at 22:45 Quote
Hey, I'm starting to check out bikes for next season and was wondering if anyone had some suggestions for a decent cheap 4x bike and a downhill bike. I'm hoping to keep my DH bike as light as possible (40lbs) and don't want too much travel, so 8" is probably lots. Right now I'm riding an 06 SX Trail and it's just not suited to racing. I'm planning on training lots this winter, so the last thing I wanna do is cheap out and get a bike that will slow me down!

That being said, I work in a shop where Norco, Kona, and Cannondale bikes are going to be the best deal. I can also get a bit of a deal on Santa Cruz frames only, and we also carry Banshee, Scott, & Specialized so I'll get an okay price on them. Commencal and Giant might be possible but we don't sell them, and Transition would probably help me out with a decent deal. We can't get Iron Horse in Canada, and I doubt I could get an Intense deal but I'd really like to try for the Sokom.

My ideas are the Norco 4x or the new Banshee 4x bike, or maybe the Kona Bass but it's supposedly more slopestyle.

For DH bikes, maybe buying the Norco Team DH for the parts and selling the frame then putting it on a new v10 - too much travel but the weight savings might compensate. Commencal makes some nice bikes, and Rachel Atherton is on the Supreme DH. I'm having trouble because all the bikes I pick out seem to have more travel and I think that will slow me down!

Steph
flag laurie1
Mod
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 8:37 Quote
I would go and buy the Norco Team DH bike and strip it down then sell the frame and go and pick up a Glory DH frame. It is nearly 1k cheaper than a V10. I know that Bow does not sell Giant but that frame is definitely the best bang for your buck. It will pedal better than a V10 and it is a very fast, nimble, and stable bike. If Mitch T can do backflips on it, I think that is proof enough. The Socom does look pretty sweet but it is from Intense's line of FRO frames so I am not too sure how many seasons you would get out of it since they are made for performance/lightness over durability and if I were shelling out the big bucks, I would want a frame that I could race for a few seasons.

As far as 4x is concerned, I don't know too much about the bikes. It seems that most of them are custom built except for the Norco 4x which definitely has more parts I would swap out then keep so it would be worth building one up. I think the Kona Bass would be overkill for 4x since it is a slopestyle bike. The only problem is that the Banshee 4x is new and there are bound to be a couple kinks in the frame's geo that would get worked out in later production years. I have never been fond of buying the first generation of anything as normally, they undergo a lot of refinements in the next production year. Also, are you set on a full suspension for a 4x bike because some hardtail frames have great geo for 4x. I like both of the Commencal frames for 4x and also the Yeti DJ frame looks pretty dope. It's too bad that Bow doesn’t carry these.
flag jonlake
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 8:49 Quote
for fully it seems that the Glory DH is an amazing bike for the price (721's 40rc2)
I dunno what the odds are but the GT dhi is under 40 pounds stock. Judge Replica is quite nice too. I just noticed you said Scott, the gambler is a crazy bike if you can get a deal.

4x, the banshee is looking awesome as is the new norco, the cannondale prophet apparently is quite a nice bike too.
flag calgaryrider
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 11:22 Quote
A v10 honestly wouldn't be a bad choice, if your planning on building it as a race bike, and keeping it at 40 pounds isn't that much of a challenge. All though its sporting the big ten inches of rear travel it pedals very efficiently and isn't that hard to maneuver at all, and this is coming from a guy whose a big time lightweight. Plus the travel is a bonus when your pinning it into the rock garden, because when shit hits the fan and you don't follow your line, the bike just soaks it right up and you motor on through. I'll probably be riding at COP tomorrow, so if you want to take some runs on my bike that'd be cool.

For a 4x bike, if you are just getting into racing, a hardtail with good geo would probably be the best choice, because you will become a lot smoother and faster, so unless your planning on doubling the bike as an all rounder a hardtail would be my first choice. Plus for the cost of a complete duallie with average parts, you could build a very nicely pimped hardtail. If you are set however on a small travel bike, the norco 4x seems to be the best bang for your buck, maybe with a fork upgrade, but thats cause i'm not a huge marzocchi fan.
flag eblackwell
FL
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 11:28 Quote
I'm a big specilized fan so i say get the demo 8 and the sx frame and build that up i ride a demo 9 and it is amazing but the 8 seems more suited for racing either that or the glory dh its sick!
flag raak
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 12:53 Quote
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1406622


Socoms are expensive but I love mine. The frames are very light too. I'd say get one at any cost - you wont regret it. Intense are an amazing bike company.

Luckly I saw a rare example on ebay when they first came out for 1200 US$ (the guy had an uzzi and an M3 and decided his barely riden new socom wasnt needed). It would have cost the equivelant of $3600 new here in the uk so I was lucky. Amazing frame. Pedals solid and light yet feels like a tank over the rough stuff.
flag coca
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 13:10 Quote
Yes, the Demo 8 is usually over looked. In it's previous years, it was more of a FR machine. Now for 07, they are a whole new bike. It soaks up the big hits, as well as the small bumps/square edge hits. It is truely a DH bike that is overlooked.

This is my bad boy...so fast, and oh so very light!

photo
https://ep3.pinkbike.org/photo/1377/pbpic1377796.jpg
flag pbuser16709
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 14:20 Quote
Hey Steph! Before a bike suggestion, I'm going to suggest you put a little more distance between yourself and that weirdo beside you in your avatar. I guess it would be all right if that was before the Super D, but if it was after...I mean, have you SMELLED his gear?! Razz


Anyway, it's tough to decide which way to go here. If you'd like something to be fast at COP, the SX is going to be better than a monster truck - I'm sure you've seen what Mitch does on that Reign. For other courses, I can see how you'd want something burlier.

If you're lusting after a SOCOM, well, has anyone else noticed how similar it is to a VP Free? The travel, the angles - they even look similar. Sure, the Intense is slightly lighter, but the difference is about a buck per gram. Consider a VP Free.

After looking over your other options, I'm still thinking a VP Free would be your best choice. Looking at the alternatives, they're all rather beastly: in every case, the frame is heavy, the parts are heavy, or the BB is far too high - or all of the above. Put a Boxxer Team or WC on a VP Free, swap the tubes for something MUCH lighter, and run lighter tires and you'll have a light, nimble downhill racer that's well under 40 lbs and is a very good replica of the SOCOM at a considerably lower price.
flag saintjimmy
O+
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 14:34 Quote
If you are only going to buy at Bow Cycle, then it's going to limit your options. That being said, I know the Cove Bike Shop deals in high end Iron Horse (unlike Sportchek or whoever deals with the cheap ones).
Also, you can swap out parts and put lighter parts in. Instead of running a RaceFace Diablous, go for a Raceface Atlas, DHX Air 5.0, smaller tubes, lighter tires, AM rims (world cup racers have been running DT Swiss EX1750), etc. It's going to be hard finding a DH bike that is under 40lbs stock, you are going to have to mix and match parts. I have found that the stock DH bikes that are under 40lbs sacrafice durability for weight savings (ie needle bearings vs cartridge bearings), so it's something to keep in mind.
The Cove has built up a STD at 37lbs, so a Shocker could be around the same given the right part spec.
flag mtnbykr05
O+
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 14:35 Quote
I would ix-nay the VP-Free. Even though the build of it looks the same as the SOCOM, it rides like Poo. The geometry is for that off Freeride, and so is the suspension. With a VPP design, they can set it up specifically for a certain discipline of riding, and Dh it is not.

A great, inexpensive, and light bike is the Morewood Izimu. Same geo and basic structure of an Orange 224. 9.5lbs for the frame, a little over 2G's, and super low maintenance. Rides like a DH bike should, and not a blend of all the other types of bikes in one like some of the others listed. It is a RACE bike.

Sounds exactly like above, but, once again, for 4x, go with a Morewood. The Ndiza ST is again a light, inexpensive frame, that is low maintenance. Plus, it rides like a 4x bike is supposed to. Everything you need, and nothing you don't.

And Morewood should get you a great deal if you work for a shop.
flag pbuser16709
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 16:46 Quote
mtnbykr05,

Have a look at the geometry of the SOCOM and the VP Free. They're almost identical and Free is actually the longer and slacker of the two, albeit by a tiny margin. The BB is super high on the Free, though (that's being changing for the next version of the Free). I don't think it's fair to say the SOCOM has distinctly more downhill-suitable geometry.

Now, I haven't ridden the Free, only the V10, so it's possible that the suspension is very progressive to resist bottoming and doesn't feel like a race bike.

I agree the Izimu would be a good choice, but I'm not sure if that's an option. When you work at a shop, you buy what you can get at half price.
flag mtnbykr05
O+
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 17:06 Quote
r-m-r wrote:
mtnbykr05,

Have a look at the geometry of the SOCOM and the VP Free. They're almost identical and Free is actually the longer and slacker of the two, albeit by a tiny margin. The BB is super high on the Free, though (that's being changing for the next version of the Free). I don't think it's fair to say the SOCOM has distinctly more downhill-suitable geometry.

Thats the problem. The wheelbase is SUPER long, and a slacker head angle isn't necessarily better for DH.

r-m-r wrote:
Now, I haven't ridden the Free, only the V10, so it's possible that the suspension is very progressive to resist bottoming and doesn't feel like a race bike.

Thats exactly it. The bike is not subtle to small bumps, and is really progressive. Makes for a great FR bike, but horrible for DH.

r-m-r wrote:
I agree the Izimu would be a good choice, but I'm not sure if that's an option. When you work at a shop, you buy what you can get at half price.

And I talked to Patrick at Morewood, and even though we don't deal them, he was willing to offer me EP.
flag pbuser16709
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 17:42 Quote
mtnbykr05 wrote:
Thats the problem. The wheelbase is SUPER long, and a slacker head angle isn't necessarily better for DH.

The difference is a half degree and a quarter inch. They're both steeper than any "normal" downhill bike, including the Izimu, and the Free is only 0.25" longer than an M3 or Sunday. It's shorter than a Glory (numbers adjusted for top-tube length).

mtnbykr05 wrote:
Thats exactly it. The bike is not subtle to small bumps, and is really progressive. Makes for a great FR bike, but horrible for DH.

The small bump issue sounds more like something to do with the shock tuning. Freeride bikes usually have a lot more low-speed compression damping to ensure they pedal well, which is bad for small bump compliance. If it was running a 5th Element, then that's the cause of the problem; those things are NOT plush. The same is true for a Swinger.

mtnbykr05 wrote:
And I talked to Patrick at Morewood, and even though we don't deal them, he was willing to offer me EP.

Good to know. Steph, you might have another option.

Let's be clear: I'm not saying the VP Free is the ultimate choice for Steph, I'm just addressing some inconsistencies in your statements. Maybe the Free is a poor choice, but it does look good on paper and the arguments against it seem...questionable.
flag skiline1337
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 17:48 Quote
i have a socom and i love it!
37 pounds
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1458485
flag SAVAGE-RIDER
Posted: Sep 29, 2007 at 18:01 Quote
santa cruz bullit..just throwin that out there..maybe it's already been thrown out there..oh well..i'm throwing it out there again! haha..
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