Hand fatigue problem HELP!

PB Forum :: Downhill
Hand fatigue problem HELP!
Author Message
flag rashkers
Posted: Jan 16, 2012 at 14:02 Quote
Hey I'm crashing in this forum.
I have been riding for years now DH and all mountain twice a week and have no problem with arm pump at home. But when I go to the alps every year I suffer badly with hand fatigue/arm pump. my hands go completly numb.
I cant figure it out. I work in construction and trained my forearms for months before i went last summer and still suffered
( so I don't think it's about man the f*ck up!!). Death grip? yes maybe
I race DH at home with no issues - short tracks tough 1.50min long.
I like to ride with a low front cockpit and wide bars - I did find some releif by shortening my stem and raising front cockpit but my riding and cornering went to shit!!! it took my weight off the front end.

So any advise or thoughts would be much appreciated
flag recklessness
Posted: Jan 16, 2012 at 14:09 Quote
*slowly and awkwardly walks away*

Thread not funny anymore. Peace.
flag mx427
Posted: Jan 16, 2012 at 18:17 Quote
If you don't believe the weak hand thing man, it's been proven they've monitored pros while the rode and checked there forearms after they rode for 10 minutes with a death grip and found massive amounts of blood pooled up in their forearms causing fatigue and pain in the hand and forearm. This isn't a opinion it's a fact all you have to do is look it up. Changing up your bike setup at strengthening your arms helps a lot for sure but you still will get arm pump if you have a death grip on the bars. A lot of people ride loose naturally so they don't get arm pump but a lot have to train themselves to ride loose. I did when I stared racing intermediate and then pro on my dirt bike and once I learned to ride loose it took care of my arm pump mostly.

I train for 2 hours a day 6 days a weak and I do three different forearm exercises as well as squeeze a stress ball to strengthin my hands throughout the day. And I still find my self getting armpump on rare occasions if I ride to tight. So I'm not tryin to argue its just some people get armpump worse then others.
flag thereisnospoon
Posted: Jan 16, 2012 at 20:46 Quote
I think you're mis-using the term "strength".
blood pooling in the arms should be related to circulation and cardio-vascular conditioning, not strength.
the buildup of lactic acid doesn't imply lack of strength, either.

if strength was the only factor, the out of shape 300lb guys would never get arm pump while DHing, and pro female DHers would be destroyed after a couple of runs. you don't need to be strong to have great endurance and good circulation.
and FYI, I did more finger-strengthening exercises (rubber disc) before noon than you did each day, yet still had horrendous arm-pump until I switched to better brakes.
flag MrMania
Posted: Jan 16, 2012 at 21:21 Quote
I had problems with this last season, after a couple of runs would get sharp pain in my hands and knuckles.

%100 due to my job at the time. I was cleaning concrete forms, which basically means hammering the form until the concrete fell off. This translated into my hands being FUBAR for a couple months. So it can be an outside source, otherwise, ride more.
flag jonjonj0nnyjon
O+
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 1:02 Quote
People, the main thing is how you set your shit up. There are SO many things that no one ever considers. Every single one of us is different, we all have different length arms, legs, fingers. The angles at which these bend are also different. This all translates into every single person standing on their bike differently with different pressure points on different parts of the hands.

If your riding position puts you forwards too much then you've got too much weight on the hands which means you've probably got a death grip. If your brakes suck and you can't comfortably one-finger feather with a relaxed grip then you're doing it wrong and have shitty brakes. If you keep your elbows down at your sides, you're doing it wrong. If you reach forwards to grab the bars and the sweep of the bar does not match the natural sweep of your palm, your bars are wrong/setup wrong for you. If your frame is too small, you'll also tend to have a forwards riding position which means more weight on the hands.

Your legs should be doing 90% of the work to keep you on the bike, the way you lean, the way you pinch the seat with your thighs, that all makes a difference in hand fatigue. If you don't do these things then you make your arms work more to keep you on the bike. If you have big hands (you wear size XL gloves or bigger) then look into getting thicker grips like ODI Rogues. Glove choice also makes a difference, thicker gloves have more padding which dampens more vibration. Over-braking creates vibration and uses energy when you don't need to use it. The angle of your levers in relation to your forearm also makes a huge difference.

Your local shop should have a person that knows how to fit a bike to someone, they are there for a reason.
flag pbuser102331
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 3:05 Quote
akirizu wrote:
People, the main thing is how you set your shit up. There are SO many things that no one ever considers. Every single one of us is different, we all have different length arms, legs, fingers. The angles at which these bend are also different. This all translates into every single person standing on their bike differently with different pressure points on different parts of the hands.

If your riding position puts you forwards too much then you've got too much weight on the hands which means you've probably got a death grip. If your brakes suck and you can't comfortably one-finger feather with a relaxed grip then you're doing it wrong and have shitty brakes. If you keep your elbows down at your sides, you're doing it wrong. If you reach forwards to grab the bars and the sweep of the bar does not match the natural sweep of your palm, your bars are wrong/setup wrong for you. If your frame is too small, you'll also tend to have a forwards riding position which means more weight on the hands.

Your legs should be doing 90% of the work to keep you on the bike, the way you lean, the way you pinch the seat with your thighs, that all makes a difference in hand fatigue. If you don't do these things then you make your arms work more to keep you on the bike. If you have big hands (you wear size XL gloves or bigger) then look into getting thicker grips like ODI Rogues. Glove choice also makes a difference, thicker gloves have more padding which dampens more vibration. Over-braking creates vibration and uses energy when you don't need to use it. The angle of your levers in relation to your forearm also makes a huge difference.

Your local shop should have a person that knows how to fit a bike to someone, they are there for a reason.

True but not always the case,a lot of bike shops are run by people who have no clue or actually care if the bike is right for you.
flag mx427
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 11:59 Quote
Ya ok spoon your right I know im sorry for postin some stupid crap online. I mean I've only been racin Moto since I was five and seeking professional advice from health advisers for the last 5 to help me get faster, I mean I don't even no why I got on this forum and tried to help the guy cause I no nothing!

Ask any real pro about what happens when they ride tight and I guarantee they say the fatigue faster. Bike setup and training is huge I totally agree with that but you can be the fittest person ever and if you start riding tight for awhile your muscles will start cramping forcing your veins closed and causing blood to pool in your arms.

Oh and forgot to mention my uncle who helps me train when he can helps top Moto guys all over the mid west to train for racing and has degrees for sports medicine and athletic training. So ya I'm sorry I don't know what I'm talking about.Rolleyes
flag recklessness
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 13:44 Quote
mx427 wrote:
I mean I don't even no why I got on this forum and tried to help the guy cause I no nothing!
Your grammar, spelling, sentence structure, and grumpy attitude prove otherwise.
flag thereisnospoon
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 15:25 Quote
I'll buy your argument on riding style being a partial cause. doing anything tensed up will wear on you.
it's your cause of that tenseness that I don't buy.
where is the evidence that lack of simple pure physical strength is the cause of this tenseness? do you honestly believe that people ride tight simply because they have "weak hands"? because that was your original argument.

if lack of pure hand/arm strength was the root cause of arm fatigue, younger kids would never be able to ride for long, and smaller ladies would have jacked forearms in no time. you can have very fit arms and hands without them being strong.
pros are paid to train all the time, and should be "strong" AND fit, so why do these strong people still suffer arm pump just like "weaker" people?? why put "tubes" in their arms if simple finger/arm strength training would fix the issue without needing surgery?? if I use your strength-only argument, without factoring in bike setup or overall physical fitness levels, it makes no sense.

keep believing you're an expert because you raced moto. if your doctor uncle exists, ask him to post next time.

I'm with akirizu on this one.
flag jonjonj0nnyjon
O+
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 15:58 Quote
Alright I'll chime in on this whole strength thing as well. There are things in our muscles called mitochondria, these generate ATP (they do lots of other things too) which is the fuel our muscles use to operate. The more of them you have, the stronger you are or rather the more potential of your muscle you can use. The only way to get more mitochondria and to make them more efficient is to train your muscles through strength and endurance training.

The physical size of your muscles do not directly translate to strength. It just means you have more potential for strength than someone who is smaller. This theory is proven when someone starts to lift weights. Say on your first day, you find you can only bench 130lbs 10 times as your maximum. Well in a few weeks, your size will not have changed and all of a sudden you're pushing 180 for 10 times. This is because you've trained your body to activate more mitochondria for that movement. If you continue to lift that 180 constantly over the next couple months, you'll be able to do more reps... say 30 reps continuously after 2 months. This is because you've trained your muscles to be more efficient in using the energy produced by the mitochondria.

So the argument of small people tiring faster is completely untrue, in fact it would be reverse. The bigger you are, the more energy and oxygen you require to function. Ask a powerlifter who is 300lbs to run a mile and he will laugh at you, ask an endurance marathoner who is 120 pounds and she will do it faster than anyone else around and not even be out of breath. Rest, Diet, and metabolic rates all also have to be taken into consideration. Everyone is different.

Body type has very very little to do with arm pump. We all get it at the start of the season because we've been sitting on our asses all winter or out doing other hobbies/sports that require different muscles and movements. After the first couple times out, arm pump disappears. GEAR SETUP is the biggest reason for hand and arm fatigue.
flag mx427
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 16:06 Quote
If you read my posts I did not say anything about weakness causing armpump, AT ALL, I said having a death grip on the handle bars do. I also totally agreed on bike setup and fitness as well just look at my posts.

The reason some pros have this radical surgery is because sometimes when there in a heated battle racing bar to bar with someone they become more focused on staying ahead then they do riding loose and naturaly tighten up. One of the main reasons people ride with a death grip is because they feel more in control and safer, instead of letting the bike bounce around and move with the track.

Strength and bike setup is huge I KNOW THAT. All im trying to say is some of the fittest motocross racers in the world admit they didn't do good in a race because they tightened up and got severe arm pump.

Prime example Dean Wilson, races AMA Motocross and Supercross admitted last weekend that he didn't due well because he rode tight and got arm pump. It was televised on SPEED TV. So a pro motocrosser who gets paid to train and ride everyday admited on national tv that he rode tight, got a death grip on the bars and did bad because he fatigued faster and couldnt keep up. I'm not making this up you can look it up talk to pros its all over the place. Its fact not fiction my friend.

And as far as my grammar, spelling, and sentence structure, I could give a rats a$$ this is a online forum. I'm not writing a english paper. I'm done arguing with you. You can give your opinion and I'll give mine and at the end of the day will both think were right and the others wrong, thats just how it is.

Thats my final 2 cents
flag jonjonj0nnyjon
O+
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 16:12 Quote
I'm not saying that gear setup is the only cause, but the OP definitely had gear setup issues.

As for mentality, that also plays a huge roll. Most of my arm pump comes from riding out of my comfort zone which scares me and I end up death gripping all the time. This is how I ride to continually get faster and better and I've researched gear setup and have done nearly everything I can aside from body modifications to stop it from happening. If I ride slower than I usually do, brake less, and just be casual, I don't get arm pump. But when I blast the shit out of everything in front of me while fearing for my life, I get arm pump.

There are also days that you just for whatever reason... stress from life... woke up wrong... who knows, you just aren't in the zone and you can't relax, and you end up gripping too tight and end up having a terrible day.
flag mx427
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 16:38 Quote
akirizu wrote:
I'm not saying that gear setup is the only cause, but the OP definitely had gear setup issues.

As for mentality, that also plays a huge roll. Most of my arm pump comes from riding out of my comfort zone which scares me and I end up death gripping all the time. This is how I ride to continually get faster and better and I've researched gear setup and have done nearly everything I can aside from body modifications to stop it from happening. If I ride slower than I usually do, brake less, and just be casual, I don't get arm pump. But when I blast the shit out of everything in front of me while fearing for my life, I get arm pump.

There are also days that you just for whatever reason... stress from life... woke up wrong... who knows, you just aren't in the zone and you can't relax, and you end up gripping too tight and end up having a terrible day.

THANK YOU, this is basically what I've been trying to get through to spoon!Salute
flag Keith-Sweat
Posted: Jan 17, 2012 at 17:28 Quote
if you really want to help with arm pump, try training for it. Take a wooden down that's about a foot long, tie a rope around the middle, and then tie a weight at the other end. Basically all you have to do is twist the rope up onto the dowel, and then back down again. Do this a few times and your arms will be burning bad. Great way to reduce arm pump, and you can get all the stuff cheap.

 


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