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Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:18 Quote
moferenc wrote:
v7fmp wrote:
ricochetrabbit wrote:



I’m curious. Why do people act like sram axs is soo expensive you need to win the lottery? It’s only $1600. Pricey, sure. But not unaffordable. Month of rent.

a wild stab in the dark would be that everyone has different amounts of disposable income. and whilst $1600 might 'only' be a month's rent to you, it could be 2 months wages to some (or more!).

I consider a £1000 bike to be 'cheap', some people wouldn't dream of spending that on a car!

That is exactly 2 months of salary for me. "Axs is not that expensive". Lol.
AXS isn't meant to be a product for the masses any more than XTR or Dura Ace of S-Works frames or anything else high end... Saying something "isn't that expensive" isn't equal to saying "everyone can afford it"

The fact is, bikes are an expensive sport at the upper end of the range... whether you're buying road bikes, e-bikes, mountain bikes, whatever bikes... once you start to shop in the upper end they're all $$$ and in terms of the top end, AXS isn't a large markup over other high-end groups. It's totally fair to say it's not that expensive.

The Rotor 13 speed group, for example, is in the same ballpark before you factor in that you'd have to buy a proprietary hub, which then makes it even more expensive while offering non of the benefits of wireless or electronic... I think it's $1800 for the whole kit.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:20 Quote
sherbet wrote:
Outlier here; AXS feels like ass. I couldn't imagine paying that much of a premium for something that offers no benefit, ergonomic or shift wise, over the current cream of the crop mechanical sets.
Yeah... you must've managed to install it backwards or something. It's certainly not life changing but it definitely doesn't "feel like ass" or offer no benefit.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:30 Quote
i've only tried it on road (force axs) but i did prefer the feeling of a mechanical "shift" in comparison.
maybe i haven't touched enough butts but i didn't think it felt like ass lol

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:31 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
sherbet wrote:
Outlier here; AXS feels like ass. I couldn't imagine paying that much of a premium for something that offers no benefit, ergonomic or shift wise, over the current cream of the crop mechanical sets.
Yeah... you must've managed to install it backwards or something. It's certainly not life changing but it definitely doesn't "feel like ass" or offer no benefit.

What are the benefits? Any benefit I can think of, like not needing to replace cables and housing, is replaced by some other just as insignificant qualm, like needing to charge batteries. Shifting performance isn't any better, it's not any more likely to survive a crash, etc. I've got nothing against it, but it sure as heck isn't for me as it sits now.

The ergonomics just aren't for me. Have ridden several demos with it, my boss has it on his bike. Myself and the other main mtb dude at the shop really don't jive with the lever positioning on it. Hopefully the new levers feel better.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:32 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
moferenc wrote:
v7fmp wrote:


a wild stab in the dark would be that everyone has different amounts of disposable income. and whilst $1600 might 'only' be a month's rent to you, it could be 2 months wages to some (or more!).

I consider a £1000 bike to be 'cheap', some people wouldn't dream of spending that on a car!

That is exactly 2 months of salary for me. "Axs is not that expensive". Lol.
AXS isn't meant to be a product for the masses any more than XTR or Dura Ace of S-Works frames or anything else high end... Saying something "isn't that expensive" isn't equal to saying "everyone can afford it"

The fact is, bikes are an expensive sport at the upper end of the range... whether you're buying road bikes, e-bikes, mountain bikes, whatever bikes... once you start to shop in the upper end they're all $$$ and in terms of the top end, AXS isn't a large markup over other high-end groups. It's totally fair to say it's not that expensive.

The Rotor 13 speed group, for example, is in the same ballpark before you factor in that you'd have to buy a proprietary hub, which then makes it even more expensive while offering non of the benefits of wireless or electronic... I think it's $1800 for the whole kit.

Preach. Bikes are expensive. Sucks to suck.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:32 Quote
ricochetrabbit wrote:
Let me start off by saying these were an absolute NIGHTMARE to install with cushcore. Took over an hour for the front. I will not install the rear. Paying a shop. I almost gave up. Also. They were extremely hard to get stateside. Idk why. But it took months for me to find a US vendor.

Anyways. Anyone else running these? DH34 up front and a DH22 in the rear. Recommended pressures? Experience?



I have dh22s that I installed with cushcore. I had no trouble only took me about 20 minutes per tire. I actually found them easier than a set of eddy currents.

I always just buy them from Germany they're only like 50 us a tire 60 once you account for shipping.

Running a dh22 rear but dh34 front seems odd, why did you choose to put the more aggressive tire in the rear?

I found them to be the best tires I've ridden in terms of casing and tread. The compound is super grippy and damps well. They're also the heaviest and slowest rolling tires I've ever ridden and the fastest wearing.

I ran about 20 psi front 22 rear, less than that and I could collapse the sidewall in berms. I only weigh 140 so heavier people may need more pressure.

I did find after about ten Enduro style rides a ton of cracking on the edge of the tread and cracking on the casing at the edge of the cushcore. Because of that and the slog that they were uphill I took them off.

I have a fresh set that I'll use with cushcore for racing or kom hunting, apart from that I will be running magic Marys or assegais. I do have a set of dh muds I'm looking to try as well once it gets better.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:43 Quote
Although I run axs, when people ask I tell them to save the cash or spend it elsewhere. Also, high end component sales should, in theory, allow the manufacturers to produce better performing parts further down the hierarchy. So one could argue that GX, NX, etc. work so well because of people buying XX1 to begin with.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:44 Quote
sherbet wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Yeah... you must've managed to install it backwards or something. It's certainly not life changing but it definitely doesn't "feel like ass" or offer no benefit.

What are the benefits? Any benefit I can think of, like not needing to replace cables and housing, is replaced by some other just as insignificant qualm, like needing to charge batteries. Shifting performance isn't any better, it's not any more likely to survive a crash, etc. I've got nothing against it, but it sure as heck isn't for me as it sits now.

The ergonomics just aren't for me. Have ridden several demos with it, my boss has it on his bike. Myself and the other main mtb dude at the shop really don't jive with the lever positioning on it. Hopefully the new levers feel better.
The ergonomics didn't immediately jive with me but they quit being noticeable pretty quickly as well once I flipped the paddle function in the app.

Shift performance is more consistent, and more precise while requiring no adjustment from cable stretch or anything else. In a little less than 600 miles, I haven't had to touch it since installing it. Setup is a fraction of the time of running cables, traveling with your bike is easier and not having to adjust anything once you get where you're going is a win. There's enough things in our lives that we charge at this point that the whole battery charging argument is pretty flacid. Like I said, it's certainly not a life changing improvement but it definitely doesn't feel like ass or offer no benefit. If you don't feel that it offers enough to worth it for you, I sure wouldn't argue otherwise but the same could be said of any high end group. Realistically, we could all get by just fine riding GX.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:46 Quote
twonsarelli wrote:
Although I run axs, when people ask I tell them to save the cash or spend it elsewhere. Also, high end component sales should, in theory, allow the manufacturers to produce better performing parts further down the hierarchy. So one could argue that GX, NX, etc. work so well because of people buying XX1 to begin with.
Agree with that 100%... If you've already upgraded everything else you want to upgrade, go for it, but the 'value' proposition of AXS is pretty low.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 15:46 Quote
hmstuna wrote:
ricochetrabbit wrote:
Let me start off by saying these were an absolute NIGHTMARE to install with cushcore. Took over an hour for the front. I will not install the rear. Paying a shop. I almost gave up. Also. They were extremely hard to get stateside. Idk why. But it took months for me to find a US vendor.

Anyways. Anyone else running these? DH34 up front and a DH22 in the rear. Recommended pressures? Experience?



I have dh22s that I installed with cushcore. I had no trouble only took me about 20 minutes per tire. I actually found them easier than a set of eddy currents.

I always just buy them from Germany they're only like 50 us a tire 60 once you account for shipping.

Running a dh22 rear but dh34 front seems odd, why did you choose to put the more aggressive tire in the rear?

I found them to be the best tires I've ridden in terms of casing and tread. The compound is super grippy and damps well. They're also the heaviest and slowest rolling tires I've ever ridden and the fastest wearing.

I ran about 20 psi front 22 rear, less than that and I could collapse the sidewall in berms. I only weigh 140 so heavier people may need more pressure.

I did find after about ten Enduro style rides a ton of cracking on the edge of the tread and cracking on the casing at the edge of the cushcore. Because of that and the slog that they were uphill I took them off.

I have a fresh set that I'll use with cushcore for racing or kom hunting, apart from that I will be running magic Marys or assegais. I do have a set of dh muds I'm looking to try as well once it gets better.

Thank you for the info! I paid $74.99 each from northwest cycles based in Nevada I believe.

The DH34 is more aggressive than the dh22 I believe. I rather have more bite up front. Maybe I’m mistaken tho?

Any tips or pointers you can give me? I’m not exaggerating when I say it was it a nightmare. I didn’t think it was going to go on.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 16:03 Quote
ricochetrabbit wrote:
Thank you for the info! I paid $74.99 each from northwest cycles based in Nevada I believe.

The DH34 is more aggressive than the dh22 I believe. I rather have more bite up front. Maybe I’m mistaken tho?

Any tips or pointers you can give me? I’m not exaggerating when I say it was it a nightmare. I didn’t think it was going to go on.
You know the basic technique of pushing the bead past the rim's bead into the deeper center section of the rim, right? I've fought some tight tires but I can't imagine a tire taking an hour to get on... soapy water mixture on the bead maybe, help it slip on...

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 16:04 Quote
ricochetrabbit wrote:
hmstuna wrote:
ricochetrabbit wrote:
Let me start off by saying these were an absolute NIGHTMARE to install with cushcore. Took over an hour for the front. I will not install the rear. Paying a shop. I almost gave up. Also. They were extremely hard to get stateside. Idk why. But it took months for me to find a US vendor.

Anyways. Anyone else running these? DH34 up front and a DH22 in the rear. Recommended pressures? Experience?



I have dh22s that I installed with cushcore. I had no trouble only took me about 20 minutes per tire. I actually found them easier than a set of eddy currents.

I always just buy them from Germany they're only like 50 us a tire 60 once you account for shipping.

Running a dh22 rear but dh34 front seems odd, why did you choose to put the more aggressive tire in the rear?

I found them to be the best tires I've ridden in terms of casing and tread. The compound is super grippy and damps well. They're also the heaviest and slowest rolling tires I've ever ridden and the fastest wearing.

I ran about 20 psi front 22 rear, less than that and I could collapse the sidewall in berms. I only weigh 140 so heavier people may need more pressure.

I did find after about ten Enduro style rides a ton of cracking on the edge of the tread and cracking on the casing at the edge of the cushcore. Because of that and the slog that they were uphill I took them off.

I have a fresh set that I'll use with cushcore for racing or kom hunting, apart from that I will be running magic Marys or assegais. I do have a set of dh muds I'm looking to try as well once it gets better.

Thank you for the info! I paid $74.99 each from northwest cycles based in Nevada I believe.

The DH34 is more aggressive than the dh22 I believe. I rather have more bite up front. Maybe I’m mistaken tho?

Any tips or pointers you can give me? I’m not exaggerating when I say it was it a nightmare. I didn’t think it was going to go on.

I think some wheel/tire combos just don't get along. a few years ago i installed some hans dampf tires to a buddy's crankbrothers wheelset and I was able to inflate them with a floor pump. i had ever experienced that before. I tried one of the tires on my own wheel and spent half an hour cursing at it before going to the shop for help. kind of a toss up in my experience.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 16:04 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
sherbet wrote:
badbadleroybrown wrote:
Yeah... you must've managed to install it backwards or something. It's certainly not life changing but it definitely doesn't "feel like ass" or offer no benefit.

What are the benefits? Any benefit I can think of, like not needing to replace cables and housing, is replaced by some other just as insignificant qualm, like needing to charge batteries. Shifting performance isn't any better, it's not any more likely to survive a crash, etc. I've got nothing against it, but it sure as heck isn't for me as it sits now.

The ergonomics just aren't for me. Have ridden several demos with it, my boss has it on his bike. Myself and the other main mtb dude at the shop really don't jive with the lever positioning on it. Hopefully the new levers feel better.
The ergonomics didn't immediately jive with me but they quit being noticeable pretty quickly as well once I flipped the paddle function in the app.

Shift performance is more consistent, and more precise while requiring no adjustment from cable stretch or anything else. In a little less than 600 miles, I haven't had to touch it since installing it. Setup is a fraction of the time of running cables, traveling with your bike is easier and not having to adjust anything once you get where you're going is a win. There's enough things in our lives that we charge at this point that the whole battery charging argument is pretty flacid. Like I said, it's certainly not a life changing improvement but it definitely doesn't feel like ass or offer no benefit. If you don't feel that it offers enough to worth it for you, I sure wouldn't argue otherwise but the same could be said of any high end group. Realistically, we could all get by just fine riding GX.

If you get cable stretch more than once a season, you're using shit housing/cables. I deal with it once and never touch it again. You have to charge the battery more than once. You're right, it is a flaccid argument, just like how cables need to be maintained is.

I can conceed I'd prefer AXS if I traveled often or had a breakaway frame. That would be dope.

We've thus far had a lot of issues with AXS. The biggest was one of our customers have ghost shifting for literally no reason anyone has yet found out. It stopped as randomly as it started and has not started again.

I am riding GX, and honestly, it isn't where I'd like it to be either. Hanger straight, tension set correctly, limits perfect, etc. Just occasionally makes noise in the mid cassette. Will likely be "upgrading" to a spare GX 11 setup I have laying around the house over winter.

None of this is to say AXS is a bad investment, it's just to help explain why myself and others don't really see the point in going to a near 3k CAD groupset that offers extremely minimal benefits (to some) over the traditional setups that work near flawlessly.

In regards to "it feels like ass". That one's my opinion. The current shift levers are frankly just not ergonomic to me, they absolutely feel like ass, again, to me. Others love it. That's kickass too.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 16:06 Quote
If you look at Michelins chart on there website they show the dh22 as the more aggressive option, I haven't personally ridden the dh34 though.

As far as cushcore follow their instructions to the letter, although I don't use dish soap. The most important part is that to get the last part on the rest of the bead on BOTH sides has to be off the beadseat. I often find I have to go around multiple times with a tire lever pushing the bead in to get it to stay and sometimes it can pop back out anyway. If you can get the bead fully pushed in it's not really any harder than a standard dh casing. I Also often sit on the tire to keep the bead pressed in.

I think I found the Michelins cheapest through chainreaction if you buy enough to get free shipping. I've also bought from bike components and bikeinn I believe. Depends how much shipping costs and where has them in stock.

Posted: Oct 23, 2020 at 16:07 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
ricochetrabbit wrote:
Thank you for the info! I paid $74.99 each from northwest cycles based in Nevada I believe.

The DH34 is more aggressive than the dh22 I believe. I rather have more bite up front. Maybe I’m mistaken tho?

Any tips or pointers you can give me? I’m not exaggerating when I say it was it a nightmare. I didn’t think it was going to go on.
You know the basic technique of pushing the bead past the rim's bead into the deeper center section of the rim, right? I've fought some tight tires but I can't imagine a tire taking an hour to get on... soapy water mixture on the bead maybe, help it slip on...

I started by getting the rim inside the tire. Then I worked on getting one side of the tire on the bead. That alone was a miserable experience. The cushcore was in the way constantly. Then once I got that, I flipped the wheel over and worked the bead in on the other side. Another nightmare.

Idk. Maybe it’s because it’s a wire bead and a non folding tire. The sidewalls compared to the maxxis minion is night and day in terms of stiffness


 
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