Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: May 2, 2019 at 11:40 Quote
me2menow wrote:
tangaroo wrote:
PHeller wrote:


So I'm curious - how's running a coil shock on a shorter travel frame? I'm trying to decide whether I should get a coil for a 210x55 Revved Trail Pistola (130mm), or switch to a 230x60 145mm Smash which might be better suited to a coil.

The coil "will work better" on a longer travel frame, but I just don't need more than 130mm.

First time running coil on the rear and I'm definitely digging it. The progressive spring is pretty awesome and I usually have to stuff any air shock with as many spacers as it can fit and I haven't had any noticeable bottoms out yet. Still tuning it in, but I say the weight penalty is far worth the traction (Climbing and descending) as well as small bump. And big compressions are significantly better than the dpx2.

I'll likely run both shocks though, air for tamer terrain and coil for chunkier stuff.
How did it affect the poppy-ness of the bike?

I'm curious how much has to do with the progressiveness vs the physics of the air shock (tried to find supporting article, was not able)

Its a bit more glued to the ground so it defintely takes a bit more effort.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 11:48 Quote
Neat.

Having never ridden a coil shocked bike outside of a downhill bike ages ago, I've always thought short travel coils were kinda ridiculous.

Now I have the opportunity to have a custom tuned coil setup for like...half of what it is new (cheaper than many air-shock options), and even more so I have the ability to choose the length I want (230 or 210), so I'm torn between going for the arguably more in demand longer i2i, or mixing it up a with a rowdy 210x55 setup.

For my weigh (240lbs) a coil sorta makes sense, and I'll have an air shock setup as well to compare and contrast.

The only other air shock that interests me is the McLeod or upcoming Mara which may be months out, and this coil I've got coming is only a few bucks more than a McLeod new.

Sounds like I've got little to lose.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 12:27 Quote
PHeller wrote:
I betchu that Berd spokes wont' take off because all the normal fanboys won't be able to get them at EP. They are an item that kinda requires that you keep your wheelset around, and from what I understand nobody is getting them for less than MSRP. They even kinda did a "cease and desist" on an MTBR post where people were trying to make them cheap.

They are what, $8 a spoke?

That being said, Berd Spokes laced to Reserve Carbon rims would be pretty good for investment wheelset. Also $2000 at the least.

That's the same reason I can't pull the trigger on a 1up USA bike rack.. Absolutely zero discount for industry folk the few times I have talked to them.


Yes I know it's a lifetime rack, but a 4 bike setup is over twice what my T2 +2 rack was and my rack is already 12 years old and will probably last another 10..

And I am sure that there will be dentists and doctors that get on those berd spokes.. But on a bike shop budget, I'll definitely be sticking to OEM carbon wheelsets and custom built wheels that play within my budget.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 12:50 Quote
PHeller wrote:
I betchu that Berd spokes wont' take off because all the normal fanboys won't be able to get them at EP. They are an item that kinda requires that you keep your wheelset around, and from what I understand nobody is getting them for less than MSRP. They even kinda did a "cease and desist" on an MTBR post where people were trying to make them cheap.

They are what, $8 a spoke?

That being said, Berd Spokes laced to Reserve Carbon rims would be pretty good for investment wheelset. Also $2000 at the least.

I pushed Berd hard for good OE pricing (I was buying for a manufacturer), even offering to buy in volume beyond what I thought we would actually sell (admittedly not much, but I tried!). The spread between retail and OE pricing was less than half of industry standard.

I can see their perspective, as I'm sure these cost many times more to manufacture than typical spokes, but that's not the consumer's problem. Consumers need return on investment; at US$8/spoke, the benefit of Berd spokes is less than most other upgrades. It's even more true for OE clients: at 10x - 50x the OE price of traditional spokes - plus dramatically higher assembly cost - there is always a better option for me to spec in my build kits.

So far, I think it's a great product. The issue (again, so far) is only price.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 12:55 Quote
That's why I went for CX-rays. Just big money.

In hindsight I kinda wish I went for them, they're just so cool.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 13:02 Quote
sherbet wrote:
That's why I went for CX-rays. Just big money.

In hindsight I kinda wish I went for them, they're just so cool.

Besides the weight, the combination of increased strength and decreased stiffness is compelling for overly stiff carbon rims. There's a lot to like.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 13:39 Quote
Although Mike Curiak basically described the feeling of riding Berd spokes as "a really high quality aluminum wheelset with lightweight spokes, but far lighter."

I've read some reviews of Spinergy's Xyclone 29er fiber-spoke wheels and many folks didn't like that feeling of a "damped" wheelset.

Classic pendulum swing - we all wanted everything stiffer and lighter and stiffer and lighter and now we're swinging back the other way.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 15:29 Quote
CX-Ray front, Race rear is where it's at

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 16:25 Quote
B650wagon wrote:
CX-Ray front, Race rear is where it's at

Can you elaborate on this?

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 16:56 Quote
CX-Ray front, Race rear is where it's at on asymmetric carbon rims Wink

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 20:09 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
sherbet wrote:
That's why I went for CX-rays. Just big money.

In hindsight I kinda wish I went for them, they're just so cool.

Besides the weight, the combination of increased strength and decreased stiffness is compelling for overly stiff carbon rims. There's a lot to like.

Super tempted to go with those rope spokes when the new lightweight onyx hubs drop.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 22:38 Quote
lifted-d wrote:
reedholden wrote:
I have never been much of a weight weenie. At 220lbs and with a background in competitive cycling, broken parts are par for the course. On my most recent rig I figured I would see what I could do to go fairly light. Put it on the scale today - not overly impressed. Anyone want to guess the weight?

Here is the build:
Lynskey bootleg

Frame: Lynskey Bootleg Ti
Fork: Pike Boost
HS: King
Stem: Thompson
Bar: Cromag BZA
Brakes: Hope E4
Shifter/Der: XTR
Wheels: Hope Pro 4, dbl butted DT Swiss spokes, Stans Flow
Tires: Maxxis Minion 2.5/2.4
Seatpost: RS reverb 150
Saddle: Flite Ti
Cranks: Next R
Pedals: XTR
Grips: lizard skins
Bottle Cages: King Cage Ti

29.1 lbs
You can lose weight on the headset easily. But everything you have is so solid.

Posted: May 2, 2019 at 23:55 Quote
sherbet wrote:
B650wagon wrote:
CX-Ray front, Race rear is where it's at

Can you elaborate on this?

Rear wheels almost always have worse spoke bracing angles than front wheels. Also, most people prefer the rear wheel to feel stiffer than the front.

I would modify the recommendation to:

Front: Lower spoke count (28 or 32), 1.5 mm round spokes (which are equivalent to CX-Rays) on the non-disc side and somewhere between 1.6 mm - 1.8 mm round spokes on the disc side, depending on hub and rim geometry.

Rear: Higher spoke count (32 or 36), 1.5 mm round spokes on the disc side and usually 1.7 mm - 1.8 mm on the drive side.

If you use the same spoke count, the rear could use 1.6 or 1.7 mm on the disc side and 1.8 - 2.0 mm on the drive side.

Asymmetric rims are almost always beneficial. In some rare cases, such as Project 321, the front non-disc side hub flange is moved inboard to balance the spoke tension and an asymmetric rim can make the non-disc side weaker than the disc side. I'm not a fan of this, since you can already balance spoke stress with an asymmetric rim and choosing mismatched spoke diameters.

Posted: May 3, 2019 at 0:12 Quote
VTwintips wrote:
lifted-d wrote:
reedholden wrote:
I have never been much of a weight weenie. At 220lbs and with a background in competitive cycling, broken parts are par for the course. On my most recent rig I figured I would see what I could do to go fairly light. Put it on the scale today - not overly impressed. Anyone want to guess the weight?

Here is the build:
Lynskey bootleg

Frame: Lynskey Bootleg Ti
Fork: Pike Boost
HS: King
Stem: Thompson
Bar: Cromag BZA
Brakes: Hope E4
Shifter/Der: XTR
Wheels: Hope Pro 4, dbl butted DT Swiss spokes, Stans Flow
Tires: Maxxis Minion 2.5/2.4
Seatpost: RS reverb 150
Saddle: Flite Ti
Cranks: Next R
Pedals: XTR
Grips: lizard skins
Bottle Cages: King Cage Ti

29.1 lbs
You can lose weight on the headset easily. But everything you have is so solid.

You will have to pry my king headset from my cold dead hand. Easily my favorite part of every build. I've never replaced one. I'm still running one on my rigid singlespeed that is 20 years old and is still like new!

Posted: May 3, 2019 at 13:19 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Makes sense I just don't like it


...mostly because I totally know I need to lose some lbs.

If there's one thing that makes cycling uncomfortable it's being heavy.


 
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