Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: May 23, 2019 at 1:37 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
riish wrote:
R-M-R wrote:


Yes.

The weight is less of a concern than the rolling resistance. Various single-casing tires with comparable construction and rubber result in no more than one "gear" of difference (i.e. the sprocket combination that feels appropriate) on a given trail - and heavier tires sometimes roll faster than lighter ones. When I use double-casing DH tires, my gearing is about four lower than normal on fast, flat terrain.

I like your idea of rating rolling resistance by gear difference.

It's not the best method, but it's more familiar than stating the difference in watts.

It also can be made really specific to the riding you do, which in turn helps decide on setup. If you’re seeing a lot of smooth miles, the gear difference is noticeable, but in techier climbing where speeds are lower, heavier tyres may only be one gear different.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 2:31 Quote
riish wrote:
It also can be made really specific to the riding you do, which in turn helps decide on setup. If you’re seeing a lot of smooth miles, the gear difference is noticeable, but in techier climbing where speeds are lower, heavier tyres may only be one gear different.

Yes, it's true that DH tires aren't a huge handicap when climbing steep and technical terrain. Rolling resistance is a small component of power dissipation, energy is not being wasted via acceleration and braking, and the added traction can be beneficial.

Planning a tire set-up using the "how much lower of a gear will I need?" metric is still difficult, as it requires estimation of speed and knowledge of the relationship between speed and air resistance, rolling resistance, rate of ascent, etc. If a person can handle that kind of calculation, you might as well use units of power, speed, and time.

This is why I think the gear comparison is useful only as an approximate, easily understood method of comparison.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 19:59 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
riish wrote:
It also can be made really specific to the riding you do, which in turn helps decide on setup. If you’re seeing a lot of smooth miles, the gear difference is noticeable, but in techier climbing where speeds are lower, heavier tyres may only be one gear different.

Yes, it's true that DH tires aren't a huge handicap when climbing steep and technical terrain. Rolling resistance is a small component of power dissipation, energy is not being wasted via acceleration and braking, and the added traction can be beneficial.

Planning a tire set-up using the "how much lower of a gear will I need?" metric is still difficult, as it requires estimation of speed and knowledge of the relationship between speed and air resistance, rolling resistance, rate of ascent, etc. If a person can handle that kind of calculation, you might as well use units of power, speed, and time.

This is why I think the gear comparison is useful only as an approximate, easily understood method of comparison.

So you all are saying that the 1/2 lb heavier tire will actually be easier to pedal? Now I want to try it....not sure I can talk my wife into a beast of a tire.

Posted: May 23, 2019 at 22:10 Quote
reedholden wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
riish wrote:
It also can be made really specific to the riding you do, which in turn helps decide on setup. If you’re seeing a lot of smooth miles, the gear difference is noticeable, but in techier climbing where speeds are lower, heavier tyres may only be one gear different.

Yes, it's true that DH tires aren't a huge handicap when climbing steep and technical terrain. Rolling resistance is a small component of power dissipation, energy is not being wasted via acceleration and braking, and the added traction can be beneficial.

Planning a tire set-up using the "how much lower of a gear will I need?" metric is still difficult, as it requires estimation of speed and knowledge of the relationship between speed and air resistance, rolling resistance, rate of ascent, etc. If a person can handle that kind of calculation, you might as well use units of power, speed, and time.

This is why I think the gear comparison is useful only as an approximate, easily understood method of comparison.

So you all are saying that the 1/2 lb heavier tire will actually be easier to pedal? Now I want to try it....not sure I can talk my wife into a beast of a tire.

No no ... I'm saying a double casing DH tire will always be slower, just sometimes the difference isn't huge, while other times the difference is enormous. If your rides are steep, technical climbs followed by burly descents, DH tires actually aren't so bad. On a fast section of hardpack with a strong tailwind, though, the DH tires will nearly cut your speed in half!

If the missus doesn't need the DH casing, don't burden her with it.

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 1:01 Quote
Anny ideas on some good not to heavy allround tyres for trail/enduro riding with tan walls?

Was looking at the ardents 2.4 but don't have anny experience with them.
Noticed that there was a lot of weight different between the versions?

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 2:21 Quote
OneBanana wrote:
DHFs?

Been looking in the dutch en german online shops to get the 29"x2.5 exo+ skinwall of that tyre but cant find it.
You maybe know a shop in the UK that carry's them?

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 2:41 Quote
I've never heard anything that would inspire me to buy ardents.

You can get Onza Ibex tan walls.

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 2:45 Quote
Ah, don't recall seeing a 29er version.
Onza do some Skinwall versions of the Ibex and Canis in 29 IIRC, but don't know if they go as wide as you want.
Could also be worth looking at Vee TIre Co, as they do skinwall options on various tyres. Really not a critical factor when choosing something as important as tires, but their skinwall has a really cool looking weave thing in it. Had multiple people compliment me on the tyres, which was a bit weird...
They come up pretty large on their sizing too - their 2.35 was wider than a Schwalbe 2.35, so is probably more like a Maxxis 2.5 (at least for non-WT stuff).
I ran a pair of Crown Gems and the carcass felt really supple but more substantial than the weight would suggest. Just be careful on compound choice with them and avoid anything labelled multiple purpose or dual control if you're riding anything involving any even slightly damp rocks or roots Razz
Wouldn't take this as a recommendation though - I'll be buying Maxxis again after the current DHFs on my HT wear out. But not Ardents - I like not having to visit dentists or hospitals Wink

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 3:59 Quote
ColinD wrote:
OneBanana wrote:
DHFs?

Been looking in the dutch en german online shops to get the 29"x2.5 exo+ skinwall of that tyre but cant find it.
You maybe know a shop in the UK that carry's them?

never seen 29x2.5 in skinwall


The shops most likely to have them if they're available are:
CRC/Wiggle
Tredz
Highonbikes

If you can't find them on there they probably aren't available

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 17:56 Quote
ColinD wrote:
Anny ideas on some good not to heavy allround tyres for trail/enduro riding with tan walls?

Was looking at the ardents 2.4 but don't have anny experience with them.
Noticed that there was a lot of weight different between the versions?

Wtb trail boss is a good option

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 20:48 Quote
[Quote="nubbs"]
ColinD wrote:
Anny ideas on some good not to heavy allround tyres for trail/enduro riding with tan walls?

Was looking at the ardents 2.4 but don't have anny experience with them.
Noticed that there was a lot of weight different between the versions?

Wtb trail boss is a good option[/Quote

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 23:29 Quote
Finally came! Wifes new rig.
Megatower M
Factory 26 with GRIP2
CK hubs, BB, HS
Stans ARCH rims with CXray spokes
RF Next SL/XTR pedals
XO1 drivetrain
Magura MT Trail SL (4piston front/2piston rear)
ENVE M6 bar (780mm) and stem (40mm)
ESI grips
Factory 150 dropper with wolftooth trigger

30lbs

Megatower
Megatower

Megatower
Megatower

Chrome CK and MT SL
Chrome CK and MT SL

Posted: May 25, 2019 at 23:32 Quote
Man, that mega is Nice. Liking the silver bits on there..

Posted: May 26, 2019 at 8:41 Quote
Terravail makes tanwall tires in 2.6 sizes. Beefy options too.


 
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