Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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flag Kitejumping
O+
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:08 Quote
Ti ones are about 29g lighter total than cx rays assuming both wheels are 32h. The Berd ones are stupid light but a bit too spendy for me.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:10 Quote
Kitejumping wrote:
Practical? Probably not, but they look awesome lol. Just like eeWings.

Less practical and more expensive choices than this are made every day for the sake of looking good. Go for it!
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:13 Quote
Kitejumping wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Waiting for RMR to chime in and tell you why it's a bad idea, haha

There was also a thread on mtbr about making UHMWPE spokes, and seems like it would be easy to do, but too risky unless you want to get sued by berd:

https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/make-your-own-polymer-uhmwpe-spokes-1091276.html

Might be useful for those in countries that don't have to worry about US patent laws.

Also, splicing that many lines would be super annoying, doing 4 for kiteboarding lines is already annoying enough.

Bookmarked that for later to read though.. I do agree that it would be a pain.. I had to spice a bunch of our long lines for our Heli work and built some slings to use.. After a full week of that, I was over splicing ropes..
flag Arnoodles
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:21 Quote
Yeah my thoughts are basically cool idea, but I find lacing a normal wheel tedious enough, so no thanks. I bet tensioning is a nightmare too.
flag R-M-R
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 13:31 Quote
Arnoodles wrote:
Yeah my thoughts are basically cool idea, but I find lacing a normal wheel tedious enough, so no thanks. I bet tensioning is a nightmare too.

I like building wheels, yet I paid Berd to build mine. And it requires a linear spoke wrench (one shaped like a standard open / box wrench) to clear the spoke holder (to avoid wind-up).

If cutting-edge components were cheap or convenient, they would be mainstream.
flag swan3609
O+
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 15:50 Quote
Arnoodles wrote:
Yeah my thoughts are basically cool idea, but I find lacing a normal wheel tedious enough, so no thanks. I bet tensioning is a nightmare too.

I wonder if dynema plays a perfect pitch at the specific tension you need.. Could tune it like a guitar.
flag tom666
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 16:50 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Waiting for RMR to chime in and tell you why it's a bad idea, haha

Oh, if you insist ... Fab

Think of a spoke as a spring, with thick sections being stiffer and thin sections being softer. The thinner, butted region in the middle of good spokes reduces the peak loads on the ends, which are full of stress concentrations. The ends are thicker, yet we still see more failures at the ends than in the middle (if a spoke fails in the middle, there was almost certainly a material defect or damage). Without the soft spring effect in the middle, those ends are going to live hard lives. Also, then ends are no larger than on a steel spoke, yet titanium isn't as strong as steel, so the ends are vulnerable. That doesn't mean they're definitely going to fail, they're just not as durable as they could be. Maybe they're still durable enough, though.

We rarely see butted titanium spokes for a few reasons:

1. Even more expensive.
2. Ends still aren't any larger than on a spoke made with stronger steel.
3. Titanium isn't as stiff as steel. Hubs and rims rarely accommodate ends larger than 2.3 mm, so a titanium spoke with considerable butting doesn't have enough material to be as stiff as the thinnest steel spokes.

Pillar makes a nice titanium spoke that's 2.2 mm at the head and 2 mm elsewhere. They also make a ludicrous version with 2.2 mm ends and a 2.0 x 0.9 mm bladed centre.

With carbon rims being so stiff, maybe it's a good thing to have softer spokes. My Berd spokes are less stiff than 1.5 mm steel spokes and the wheels are still stiffer than comparable aluminum rims with steel spokes. It's neither expensive nor difficult to replace a few broken spokes, so the risk of trying weird spokes isn't too scary.

That said, the titanium spokes Kitejumping is considering are twice the price of a round 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 mm steel spoke, which is just as good as a CX-Ray. All three are comparable in weight. That's a lot of expense and uncertainty to save about 0.2 g per spoke.

This is great information Salute
flag R-M-R
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 16:54 Quote
tom666 wrote:
This is great information Salute

Thanks; happy to help! tup
flag mtbman1980
O+
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 16:56 Quote
Arnoodles wrote:
Kitejumping wrote:
Arnoodles wrote:
They can't really sue you if you're not selling them.

Pretty sure they could if they wanted to.
Yeah I started reading that a bit. Sounds like it varies a bit by country, but in the US I guess that's the case. Seems a bit silly to go after people making these for themselves without any plans to sell them though. Just gonna make themselves look like douches.

They would have to know you where making them first and I don’t think they are checking the Pinkbike forums.
flag tom666
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 16:57 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Kitejumping wrote:
Practical? Probably not, but they look awesome lol. Just like eeWings.

Less practical and more expensive choices than this are made every day for the sake of looking good. Go for it!

You can throw middleburn in with this as well. You can buy better cranks for less money but they're just cool somehow
flag Kitejumping
O+
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 18:16 Quote
mtbman1980 wrote:
Arnoodles wrote:
Kitejumping wrote:


Pretty sure they could if they wanted to.
Yeah I started reading that a bit. Sounds like it varies a bit by country, but in the US I guess that's the case. Seems a bit silly to go after people making these for themselves without any plans to sell them though. Just gonna make themselves look like douches.

They would have to know you where making them first and I don’t think they are checking the Pinkbike forums.

Yeah, I don't think they should have even been issued a patent, anyone with basic splicing skills would have tried the same method first to attach the end of the metal spoke threads to the uhmwpe. Its like patenting using threads on the end of a spoke to interface with a nipple lol.
flag PHeller
O+
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 20:35 Quote
They patented the attachment method to the threaded piece of metal that the nipples threads on.

Basically, they patented a "chinese finger trap" method of attaching the string to the metal piece.
flag Nobble
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 21:44 Quote
PHeller wrote:
They patented the attachment method to the threaded piece of metal that the nipples threads on.

Basically, they patented a "chinese finger trap" method of attaching the string to the metal piece.
link to the patented part? A similar design has been used for years in high pressure hydraulic and electrical cable management applications.
flag Arnoodles
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 23:31 Quote
mtbman1980 wrote:
Arnoodles wrote:
Kitejumping wrote:


Pretty sure they could if they wanted to.
Yeah I started reading that a bit. Sounds like it varies a bit by country, but in the US I guess that's the case. Seems a bit silly to go after people making these for themselves without any plans to sell them though. Just gonna make themselves look like douches.

They would have to know you where making them first and I don’t think they are checking the Pinkbike forums.
Well they were on the mtbr thread. But otherwise I agree, if you're gonna do stuff like this just don't go talking to the company whose patents you're infringing.
flag Arnoodles
Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 23:34 Quote
Nobble wrote:
PHeller wrote:
They patented the attachment method to the threaded piece of metal that the nipples threads on.

Basically, they patented a "chinese finger trap" method of attaching the string to the metal piece.
link to the patented part? A similar design has been used for years in high pressure hydraulic and electrical cable management applications.
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