Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 1:46 Quote
heinous wrote:
The Storia isn't too bad price wise, it worked out cheaper than DHX2 when I looked at it. Every Rock Shox product I've ever had has failed, so I'd go Storia. Or DVO.

I have the exact opposite experience with rockshox. I find their stuff to be very realiable.

That said, DVO and EXT are great options

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 5:50 Quote
I would say rockshox stuff tends to be the most serviceable as long as you buy a couple tools and have access to the online service manual.

The aluminum santa cruz bikes come with a super deluxe R that doesn’t have an eyelet bearing, you could look for a take off one of those.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 7:22 Quote
Anyone ever build any wheels with these?

https://www.albes.com/usa-brand-titanium-spoke-in-blue/

Cheaper and lighter than CX Ray's, will probably use them on a new Vesper Onyx build.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 8:53 Quote
Hmm ti spokes will make the wheel flexy, but combined with a carbon rim that might be worthwhile.

They aren't butted though...just straight gauge.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 9:41 Quote
Yeah, think I'm going to go with those and nextie carbon rims on the next build.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 9:45 Quote
Waiting for RMR to chime in and tell you why it's a bad idea, haha

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 10:07 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Waiting for RMR to chime in and tell you why it's a bad idea, haha

There was also a thread on mtbr about making UHMWPE spokes, and seems like it would be easy to do, but too risky unless you want to get sued by berd:

https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/make-your-own-polymer-uhmwpe-spokes-1091276.html

Might be useful for those in countries that don't have to worry about US patent laws.

Also, splicing that many lines would be super annoying, doing 4 for kiteboarding lines is already annoying enough.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 10:32 Quote
Byrd will some competition soon. That's all I'll say about that.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 10:45 Quote
They can't really sue you if you're not selling them.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 11:06 Quote
Arnoodles wrote:
They can't really sue you if you're not selling them.

Pretty sure they could if they wanted to.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 11:42 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Waiting for RMR to chime in and tell you why it's a bad idea, haha

Oh, if you insist ... Fab

Think of a spoke as a spring, with thick sections being stiffer and thin sections being softer. The thinner, butted region in the middle of good spokes reduces the peak loads on the ends, which are full of stress concentrations. The ends are thicker, yet we still see more failures at the ends than in the middle (if a spoke fails in the middle, there was almost certainly a material defect or damage). Without the soft spring effect in the middle, those ends are going to live hard lives. Also, the ends are no larger than on a steel spoke, yet titanium isn't as strong as steel, so the ends are vulnerable. That doesn't mean they're definitely going to fail, they're just not as durable as they could be. Maybe they're still durable enough, though.

We rarely see butted titanium spokes for a few reasons:

1. Even more expensive.
2. Ends still aren't any larger than on a spoke made with stronger steel.
3. Titanium isn't as stiff as steel. Hubs and rims rarely accommodate ends larger than 2.3 mm, so a titanium spoke with considerable butting doesn't have enough material to be as stiff as the thinnest steel spokes.

Pillar makes a nice titanium spoke that's 2.2 mm at the head and 2 mm elsewhere. They also make a ludicrous version with 2.2 mm ends and a 2.0 x 0.9 mm bladed centre.

With carbon rims being so stiff, maybe it's a good thing to have softer spokes. My Berd spokes are less stiff than 1.5 mm steel spokes and the wheels are still stiffer than comparable aluminum rims with steel spokes. It's neither expensive nor difficult to replace a few broken spokes, so the risk of trying weird spokes isn't too scary.

That said, the titanium spokes Kitejumping is considering are twice the price of a round 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0 mm steel spoke, which is just as good as a CX-Ray. All three are comparable in weight. That's a lot of expense and uncertainty to save about 0.2 g per spoke.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 11:59 Quote
Practical? Probably not, but they look awesome lol. Just like eeWings.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:03 Quote
You can get oil slick spokes in traditional steel, butted options.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:03 Quote
Kitejumping wrote:
Arnoodles wrote:
They can't really sue you if you're not selling them.

Pretty sure they could if they wanted to.
Yeah I started reading that a bit. Sounds like it varies a bit by country, but in the US I guess that's the case. Seems a bit silly to go after people making these for themselves without any plans to sell them though. Just gonna make themselves look like douches.

Posted: Jun 19, 2019 at 12:08 Quote
Ti ones are about 29g lighter total than cx rays assuming both wheels are 32h. The Berd ones are stupid light but a bit too spendy for me.


 
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