Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 11:34 Quote
Arnoodles wrote:
jamieridesbikes wrote:
Last update on my Saracen. Been refused again. I don't know what to do, where do I go from here?

I strongly recommend everyone who reads this to never touch anything made by Saracen.
Make noise publicly on Facebook, Instagram, etc?

I'm half kidding but I have no idea. What a bunch of wanks.

Post full pictures of frame issue & any correspondence from them online - openly tell anyone exactly how you feel. Complaints dept too

Shit end of the stick mate .. feel for you, I'd be f*cking fuming, just don't aggressively berate them online.
Don't give up either , they ought to come to some agreement with you or find an amicable solution.

You bought the bike in good faith right? UK specific MTB that can handle the hits. They think it's ok to ignore you,or, pass you off with a solid 'no chance son'
Void warranty Saracen? .. surely not
This has to be the most idiotic response from a manufacturer this year.

Saracen, this is pathetic

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 11:55 Quote
jamieridesbikes wrote:
Last update on my Saracen. Been refused again. I don't know what to do, where do I go from here?

I strongly recommend everyone who reads this to never touch anything made by Saracen.
Who did you actually buy it from?
If not from Saracen themselves then your actual claim is with the retailer from whom you purchased it - retailers are good at trying to pass the ball ache of dealing with consumer problems to the manufacturer (they do it frequently with electronics as well) but it's really their problem to address it for you, as it is them with whom you have a contract, and it is not your issue if they can't then reclaim the cost of doing so from the manufacturer.

Irrespective of who supplied it, from what you've said so far it sounds like the frame really hasn't met the basic "fitness for purpose" requirements of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. Have you tried speaking with the Citizen's Advice Bureau?
IIRC one of the new provisions in this Act is that it includes scope for dispute resolution through an arbitration service rather than necessarily going through the expense/time of court action.
In your position I'd contact Citizen's Advice, as you haven't really got anything to lose from doing so. Unless you know a friendly solicitor? An unequivocal letter on headed paper from a lawyer's office can sometimes be useful in helping persuade idiots to reconsider their position Wink

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:13 Quote
OneBanana wrote:
Who did you actually buy it from?
If not from Saracen themselves then your actual claim is with the retailer from whom you purchased it

I'm not sure how it works there, but that is 100% incorrect as far as warranty goes here. The company has the ultimate say for warranty and the shop does not get to dictate what happens. Going after the retailer here would be an incredibly shitty move.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:16 Quote
In the UK I think it's correct if you are arguing it was missold or unfit for purpose. Trouble is I bought it through the shop I worked at. Don't want to f*ck them over.

Definitely going to chase up citizens advice

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:19 Quote
In the UK the contract of sale is between the consumer and the retailer, and thus it is the retailer that is responsible for addressing any faults.
Obviously they will generally take direction from the manufacturer, as if the manufacturer doesn't want to cover it then the retailer doesn't want to leave themselves out of pocket, hence it being a common tactic that they employ.
But in terms of the formal legal position in the UK, the retailer is the party who is obliged to fulfil their contractual requirements with the consumer.

Mandatory disclaimer: not a lawyer, just someone who reads stuff and doesn't like getting f'd over Wink

Edit: Jamie posted while I was typing a reply to Sherb. Obviously the shop's relationship with the distro/brand isn't governed by the Consumer Contracts Act, but hopefully they will also have some contractual cover in place regarding warranty claims - if the court or an arbitration service determine that your claim against the retailer is valid, then the brand are really going to struggle to argue that a subsequent claim from the shop against them is without merit.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:22 Quote
sherbet wrote:
OneBanana wrote:
Who did you actually buy it from?
If not from Saracen themselves then your actual claim is with the retailer from whom you purchased it

I'm not sure how it works there, but that is 100% incorrect as far as warranty goes here. The company has the ultimate say for warranty and the shop does not get to dictate what happens. Going after the retailer here would be an incredibly shitty move.

Yep.. I could swear up and down that it's a defect in a product and say everything I could... But if one of our companies says no, then there is nothing more that I could do about it. I mean the shop could always take a loss on the product and refund the customer for customer satisfaction.. But that doesn't really make sense for a bike.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:27 Quote
OneBanana wrote:
In the UK the contract of sale is between the consumer and the retailer, and thus it is the retailer that is responsible for addressing any faults.

That is insane levels of fucked up. The shop literally has no power when it comes to warranty. Not disputing the law, just awestruck if this actually is the case.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:28 Quote
jamieridesbikes wrote:
In the UK I think it's correct if you are arguing it was missold or unfit for purpose. Trouble is I bought it through the shop I worked at. Don't want to f*ck them over.

Definitely going to chase up citizens advice

If your boss sees this and doesn't drop Saracen on their sorry asses, I'd have a chat with him about your options in a polite, civil, and completely non-threatening way. If Saracen is the lifeblood of your shop, I'm so sorry.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:31 Quote
sherbet wrote:
OneBanana wrote:
In the UK the contract of sale is between the consumer and the retailer, and thus it is the retailer that is responsible for addressing any faults.

That is insane levels of fucked up. The shop literally has no power when it comes to warranty. Not disputing the law, just awestruck if this actually is the case.
Ha, I was just thinking the exact same thing about the situation on your side of the Atlantic - seems weird that it's decided by a business who wasn't a party with direct involvement in the original contract of sale lol

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:35 Quote
But the retailer who had direct involvement in selling the bike did not manufacture the bike. I understand that's how it is over there - but to me it's just odd.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:35 Quote
We don't stock Saracen but deal with Madison, which meant I could put it through as a special order.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:37 Quote
OneBanana wrote:
sherbet wrote:
OneBanana wrote:
In the UK the contract of sale is between the consumer and the retailer, and thus it is the retailer that is responsible for addressing any faults.

That is insane levels of fucked up. The shop literally has no power when it comes to warranty. Not disputing the law, just awestruck if this actually is the case.
Ha, I was just thinking the exact same thing about the situation on your side of the Atlantic - seems weird that it's decided by a business who wasn't a party with direct involvement in the original contract of sale lol

Why would it be weird to not put the responsibility on the party that has no control over the situation? That makes no sense.

If a company denies us a warranty that should have gone through, we deal with it in shop to the best of our abilities, and we have straight up given customers stuff at cost before to get them rolling. That shouldn't be a requirement. It shouldn't come out of my boss' paycheck when he has literally no say or involvement with what does or does not receive a warranty.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:51 Quote
It's probably just a case of what we've got used to as it's been our normal experience.
Obviously I can see how it seems strange with something like bikes, where shops are probably in close contact with the distros, but it's really just about protecting the consumer as they're the party that is viewed to have the weaker negotiating position.
Consider e.g. a washing machine as an alternative example - if this goes wrong then is it reasonable that the retailer to whom I just gave £500 should sort it out, or should I instead have to speak to some large manufacturer in China?

Do brands have to have a legal entity/representative in Canada to be able to import there? I know that this is a requirement with e.g. food products entering the US from overseas, and again that would make a difference - in the UK there is no similar requirement, so it really is feasible that the manufacturer is in a completely different country and, whilst theoretically under the jurisdiction of UK law if trading in the country, not necessarily in any useful way that would guarantee warranties can reasonably be enforced.

Not saying either approach is right/wrong - they both have their merits and drawbacks.
Obviously it's particularly pronounced in the case of bike shops and the other few smaller independent retailers that are just about clinging on, as it's not like Walmart where the payout isn't really going to hurt.

In any case I'm pretty sure we're in agreement that the best resolution is the one where the LBS doesn't get screwed for having the misfortune of representing a brand that seems to be pretty sh!tty about a legit warranty claim, so the proposal to have a chat with the owner first is a good call.

Posted: Jun 25, 2019 at 12:52 Quote
dirtnapped wrote:
B650wagon wrote:
before switching to coil for better small bump chatter performance...consider going to Cushcore first.

Tried some other inserts and....meh. An extra pounds of rolling weight per wheel is very noticeable. My last flat was a could years when I completely sheared a side knob on an already worn tire. The dampening is noticable though.

Definitely worth it in a gravity bike, still not sold on a trail bike.

Try actual Cushcore, others aren't the same. Weight isn't an issue with lighter tires, I run Snakeskin Magic Mary and Hans Dampf 2 with Cushcore, weighs about the same as Supergravity, Double Down, WTB...

Check out this (independent lab) test:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/Shootout-Tire-Inserts-Tested-by-Independent-Lab,2899


 
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