Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 4:52 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Nobble wrote:
Anyone tried out a megneg air can for a Super Deluxe?

Debating trying it on my Capra since it claims to improve mid-stroke support.

Kinda curious about this as well. Talking with some suspension gurus, if Debonair (positive) volume increase is good for lighter riders, then MegNeg (negative) volume increase should be good for heavier riders.

I found it the opposite. I’ve got a vorsprung corset on my float x and the larger negative chamber almost pulls the shock into the travel so it better for lighter riders. I’m running it at a tad under max psi and I’m only 78kg.

Vorsprung has a very good write up about how larger negative air springs give you more mid stroke support. But basically you can run higher pressures because the larger negative air spring is “sucking” the shock through its first bit of travel so you don’t loose any small bump but then when you get to the mid stroke you have higher psi than you would have with a smaller negative spring so you get more support. Most of the time you need to take a volume spacer out to get near the end of the travel.

I really like my corset on my float x so I assume it would be the same on rockshox.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 9:21 Quote
Anyone have solid experience with the Bomber CR coil shock? Picked one up for my scout to do some experimenting along with a Super Alloy Racing enduro light coil because weight game.

I know avalanche will do some tuning to those shocks, not sure if push still offers the MX tune

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 9:41 Quote
Stayslacking wrote:
Anyone have solid experience with the Bomber CR coil shock? Picked one up for my scout to do some experimenting along with a Super Alloy Racing enduro light coil because weight game.

I know avalanche will do some tuning to those shocks, not sure if push still offers the MX tune

Push is out of the tuning game aside from their modification products. I'm sure there are plenty of tune shops that could tune a Bomber CR due to its relative simplicity. I've seen prices range from $50 for a shock tune to $250 (Avy).

The Bomber CR is the best deal going if you intend to get a custom tune. If you want to buy off the shelf and never touch it again, you'll be leaving some performance on the table, but how much of that you might notice between a CR and SD Coil? Who knows.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 12:37 Quote
To be fair the Avalanche tune is basically a whole new shock considering they take out some of the internals and replace them with avalanche’s own and I’m talking more than just custom tuning the shim stack.

I had an Avy tuned fox rc4 in like 2012, it was a really good shock, didn’t have a lot of a pedaling platform but it was also on a demo which weren’t known to pedal well anyway. The avy tune felt way better than stock and I only ended up changing most of the adjustments very slightly from their recommendations, so I could totally see going with it on something like the bomber CR where you don’t have access to the high speed compression and rebound without changing the shims inside.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 15:26 Quote
Most of the issue I had was slim availability of coil shocks in 190x51. The Bomber CR was the only option other than the Ohlins coil or other import options. Still excited about it though, I'm sure I'll see some improvement over the monarch shock that comes on that thing. Definitely looking to do an Avy SSD tune over the winter based on what I'm reading

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 16:02 Quote
Stayslacking wrote:
Most of the issue I had was slim availability of coil shocks in 190x51. The Bomber CR was the only option other than the Ohlins coil or other import options. Still excited about it though, I'm sure I'll see some improvement over the monarch shock that comes on that thing. Definitely looking to do an Avy SSD tune over the winter based on what I'm reading

Spend some time on the Marzocchi first. You may not feel there's sufficient value in the Avalanche internals.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 16:11 Quote
this forum is nuts! need to save this stuff, some good information on specific weight


Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 19:55 Quote
bikerboywill wrote:
PHeller wrote:
Nobble wrote:
Anyone tried out a megneg air can for a Super Deluxe?

Debating trying it on my Capra since it claims to improve mid-stroke support.

Kinda curious about this as well. Talking with some suspension gurus, if Debonair (positive) volume increase is good for lighter riders, then MegNeg (negative) volume increase should be good for heavier riders.

I found it the opposite. I’ve got a vorsprung corset on my float x and the larger negative chamber almost pulls the shock into the travel so it better for lighter riders. I’m running it at a tad under max psi and I’m only 78kg.

Vorsprung has a very good write up about how larger negative air springs give you more mid stroke support. But basically you can run higher pressures because the larger negative air spring is “sucking” the shock through its first bit of travel so you don’t loose any small bump but then when you get to the mid stroke you have higher psi than you would have with a smaller negative spring so you get more support. Most of the time you need to take a volume spacer out to get near the end of the travel.

I really like my corset on my float x so I assume it would be the same on rockshox.
hmm, the Capra is super progressive, so I’m having trouble bottoming the bike while getting enough mid stroke support.

Sounds like the megneg might not be the answer.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 20:05 Quote
Nobble wrote:
bikerboywill wrote:
PHeller wrote:


Kinda curious about this as well. Talking with some suspension gurus, if Debonair (positive) volume increase is good for lighter riders, then MegNeg (negative) volume increase should be good for heavier riders.

I found it the opposite. I’ve got a vorsprung corset on my float x and the larger negative chamber almost pulls the shock into the travel so it better for lighter riders. I’m running it at a tad under max psi and I’m only 78kg.

Vorsprung has a very good write up about how larger negative air springs give you more mid stroke support. But basically you can run higher pressures because the larger negative air spring is “sucking” the shock through its first bit of travel so you don’t loose any small bump but then when you get to the mid stroke you have higher psi than you would have with a smaller negative spring so you get more support. Most of the time you need to take a volume spacer out to get near the end of the travel.

I really like my corset on my float x so I assume it would be the same on rockshox.
hmm, the Capra is super progressive, so I’m having trouble bottoming the bike while getting enough mid stroke support.

Sounds like the megneg might not be the answer.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 21:35 Quote
Nobble wrote:
hmm, the Capra is super progressive, so I’m having trouble bottoming the bike while getting enough mid stroke support.

Sounds like the megneg might not be the answer.


Blue line is a standard Debonair, red is Meg Neg, and dashed line is a coil spring.

The Meg Neg brings you closer to the feel of a coil, which is ideal for a highly progressive bike. Run a touch more sag and you'll still have the same support at around three-quarters travel, which is where people feel the "midstroke", and less bottom-out force.

A coil shock would be even better, though more expensive than changing the air can.

Posted: Jul 9, 2019 at 21:40 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Nobble wrote:
hmm, the Capra is super progressive, so I’m having trouble bottoming the bike while getting enough mid stroke support.

Sounds like the megneg might not be the answer.


Blue line is a standard Debonair, red is Meg Neg, and dashed line is a coil spring.

The Meg Neg brings you closer to the feel of a coil, which is ideal for a highly progressive bike. Run a touch more sag and you'll still have the same support at around three-quarters travel, which is where people feel the "midstroke", and less bottom-out force.

A coil shock would be even better, though more expensive than changing the air can.
that plot makes it look like it might be the ticket. I don't know how I didnt find that before.

It's probably worth a shot for the cost savings.

Posted: Jul 10, 2019 at 6:37 Quote
Yea the megneg will be good because you can run less spacers and still have mid stroke support.

Posted: Jul 10, 2019 at 8:51 Quote
I have a Fox Evol air can for a Float X shock if anyone wants to upgrade their Float X. It turns out that I would need custom valving done to be able to use it, I'm too heavy at 230 lbs.

see ad:
https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2533173/

Posted: Jul 10, 2019 at 9:15 Quote
So here's one for ya: will the tune of the shock need to updated for the MegNeg? I'm sure most average weight riders will be fine, but if you're heavier or lighter and getting a custom tune, will the tune shop need to account for the increased negative volume?

Posted: Jul 10, 2019 at 9:17 Quote
Yes, for avg. riders should be fine, maybe lighter too. Heavier riders need custom tune. In general, heavier riders don't benefit from these air cans because we already require more psi than avg. weight riders. I would still benefit from a custom tune but the tuners say that they would not recommend the Evol air can in my case.


 
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