Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 18:54 Quote
seraph wrote:
sosburn wrote:
seraph wrote:
When I read that the Tallboy isn't compatible with coil shocks, it makes me want to try a coil shock on there. There's a 190x45 DB Coil Inline available.

but how would it fit

How wouldn't it.

But how would you deal with riding a Cane Creek shock?


Or maybe I am the only one who killed them so readily.

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 18:55 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
seraph wrote:
sosburn wrote:


but how would it fit

How wouldn't it.

But how would you deal with riding a Cane Creek shock?


Or maybe I am the only one who killed them so readily.
The original db coils where great, everything after that was pretty terrible and frequently died.

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 21:01 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
swan3609 wrote:
seraph wrote:


How wouldn't it.

But how would you deal with riding a Cane Creek shock?


Or maybe I am the only one who killed them so readily.
The original db coils where great, everything after that was pretty terrible and frequently died.

Seems to be true.. I have a OG DB coil on the M9 and it's been good so far... But on my Enduros I have killed 3 Inlines, 2 Double barrels and a DBA CS... In half the time I spent with a Topaz on the same bike.

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 21:05 Quote
You are holding it wrong.

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 22:20 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:
swan3609 wrote:


But how would you deal with riding a Cane Creek shock?


Or maybe I am the only one who killed them so readily.
The original db coils where great, everything after that was pretty terrible and frequently died.

Seems to be true.. I have a OG DB coil on the M9 and it's been good so far... But on my Enduros I have killed 3 Inlines, 2 Double barrels and a DBA CS... In half the time I spent with a Topaz on the same bike.

I have killed an inline air had several major rebuilds on my DBA CS. Not a fan of CC shocks for sure

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 at 22:27 Quote
mtbman1980 wrote:
swan3609 wrote:
ajax-ripper wrote:

The original db coils where great, everything after that was pretty terrible and frequently died.

Seems to be true.. I have a OG DB coil on the M9 and it's been good so far... But on my Enduros I have killed 3 Inlines, 2 Double barrels and a DBA CS... In half the time I spent with a Topaz on the same bike.

I have killed an inline air had several major rebuilds on my DBA CS. Not a fan of CC shocks for sure


I have my 6 dead CC shocks.. My dad killed 2, then we had 2 others on shop guys bikes. And then 2 or 3 on customers bikes... We have swore off their Shocks a long time ago.

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 4:57 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
mtbman1980 wrote:
swan3609 wrote:


Seems to be true.. I have a OG DB coil on the M9 and it's been good so far... But on my Enduros I have killed 3 Inlines, 2 Double barrels and a DBA CS... In half the time I spent with a Topaz on the same bike.

I have killed an inline air had several major rebuilds on my DBA CS. Not a fan of CC shocks for sure


I have my 6 dead CC shocks.. My dad killed 2, then we had 2 others on shop guys bikes. And then 2 or 3 on customers bikes... We have swore off their Shocks a long time ago.

I’ve used the marzocchi bomber coil shock on my bike along with a few other guys at the shop. It’s on the low end of coils but it gets the job done and has truly proven to be a “bomber” with no issues to date

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 6:05 Quote
On MRP Ribbon - apparently they use an orfice damper which cant be reshimmed like more traditional damper styles and has some performance limitation. I know nothing of what makes one damper style better than then another, but does anyone know why this orfice damper may be a limitation despite MRP being twin tube?

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 8:18 Quote
PHeller wrote:
On MRP Ribbon - apparently they use an orfice damper which cant be reshimmed like more traditional damper styles and has some performance limitation. I know nothing of what makes one damper style better than then another, but does anyone know why this orfice damper may be a limitation despite MRP being twin tube?
Imagine a hole, this hole is only so big, you generally adjust the area of this by ramming a needle valve into it. If for whatever reason full open isn't open enough you can't make the home bigger same goes with smaller.

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 8:40 Quote
Orifice dampers generally have more issues with cavitation as well compared to shim stacks.

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 13:22 Quote
Circe wrote:
You notice the Megatower , Hightower, and Tallboy 4 all have almost exactly the same head tube angle? Discuss.

Things are getting interesting with geometry. Some of what you're seeing is the rapid evolution of companies' thought processes - i.e. it's not that they intended all their bikes to have the same head angle, but their idea of the "right" head angle became half a degree slacker every year. If they designed all the bikes at the same time, maybe the head angles would've been a degree apart for each 15 mm of travel, but if the shorter-travel bikes were designed a year later, they became a half degree slacker, resulting nearly the the same numbers across the model range.

Regardless of the reasons, there's something no one is talking about: head angles become steeper as you compress the front end in "pitch", i.e. front compression only, the most dangerous situation in the context of handling and crash prevention. More travel leads to more steepening. Thus, a long-travel bike with a static head angle that's similar to a short-travel bike will become steeper at full compression (pitch). This can lead to a slack, short-travel bike being more capable than a long-travel bike, especially on steep, slow terrain that can cause excessive pitch. At high speeds, travel does help a lot.

Geometry is what mostly determines the upper limit of a bike's capability; travel determines how it feels as you approach those limits. Obviously, I'm not taking it to such an extreme as to say a slack, fully rigid bike can replace a World Cup DH bike if you have the hands to endure the harshness, so consider this within the context of bikes that make some degree of sense for the intended purpose.

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 13:45 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Circe wrote:
You notice the Megatower , Hightower, and Tallboy 4 all have almost exactly the same head tube angle? Discuss.

Things are getting interesting with geometry. Some of what you're seeing is the rapid evolution of companies' thought processes - i.e. it's not that they intended all their bikes to have the same head angle, but their idea of the "right" head angle became half a degree slacker every year. If they designed all the bikes at the same time, maybe the head angles would've been a degree apart for each 15 mm of travel, but if the shorter-travel bikes were designed a year later, they became a half degree slacker, resulting nearly the the same numbers across the model range.

Regardless of the reasons, there's something no one is talking about: head angles become steeper as you compress the front end in "pitch", i.e. front compression only, the most dangerous situation in the context of handling and crash prevention. More travel leads to more steepening. Thus, a long-travel bike with a static head angle that's similar to a short-travel bike will become steeper at full compression (pitch). This can lead to a slack, short-travel bike being more capable than a long-travel bike, especially on steep, slow terrain that can cause excessive pitch. At high speeds, travel does help a lot.

Geometry is what mostly determines the upper limit of a bike's capability; travel determines how it feels as you approach those limits. Obviously, I'm not taking it to such an extreme as to say a slack, fully rigid bike can replace a World Cup DH bike if you have the hands to endure the harshness, so consider this within the context of bikes that make some degree of sense for the intended purpose.[/Quote

This ^ came up on the sexiest hardtail thread recently
https://www.btr-fabrications.com/blog/sixty-one-degree/

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 18:16 Quote
Soupherb wrote:
This ^ came up on the sexiest hardtail thread recently
https://www.btr-fabrications.com/blog/sixty-one-degree/

That's similar to what Clark Lewis wrote last year about his design for the Chromag Doctahawk and similar to what I wrote more than two years ago about my design for the Structure SCW-1 (the front linkage chassis). Nice to see people are finally getting it.

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 18:43 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
Soupherb wrote:
This ^ came up on the sexiest hardtail thread recently
https://www.btr-fabrications.com/blog/sixty-one-degree/

That's similar to what Clark Lewis wrote last year about his design for the Chromag Doctahawk and similar to what I wrote more than two years ago about my design for the Structure SCW-1 (the front linkage chassis). Nice to see people are finally getting it.

WAIT! You designed one of the ugliest bikes of all time?

Also, it frames your previous statements in a different light. E.g. your comments on head tube angle, because linkage.

Posted: Aug 25, 2019 at 18:59 Quote
Damn Circles... not pulling any punches lol

That thing was damn ugly though. Lol


 
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