Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 2:43 Quote
Given the importance of wearing a good fitting helmet, any bespoke custom lid builders out there?

Just a thought


The only lid that EVER fitted me perfectly was a Shoei motorbike lid back in 89'

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 7:59 Quote
mtbman1980 wrote:
I was reading a thread on Vital and there was some good discussion regarding full face helmets being less safe. The reasoning is along the lines that you may loose some teeth or break your nose but the force from the chinbar hitting the ground hard can lead to severe spinal cord damage.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Three-Quarter-Lids-Kook-or-Cool,10676

Maybe there is some truth there..but if I were wearing a full face helmet earlier in the year when I crashed at the Nanaimo enduro I likely wouldn't have suffered the brain hemorrhage I did as I hit my jaw and cheek bone only. Lucky to not be a vegetable.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 8:45 Quote
gnarnaimo wrote:
mtbman1980 wrote:
I was reading a thread on Vital and there was some good discussion regarding full face helmets being less safe. The reasoning is along the lines that you may loose some teeth or break your nose but the force from the chinbar hitting the ground hard can lead to severe spinal cord damage.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Three-Quarter-Lids-Kook-or-Cool,10676

Maybe there is some truth there..but if I were wearing a full face helmet earlier in the year when I crashed at the Nanaimo enduro I likely wouldn't have suffered the brain hemorrhage I did as I hit my jaw and cheek bone only. Lucky to not be a vegetable.

Yeah definitely not saying you shouldn't wear a fullface or at least consider it, it just had me thinking about how we just throw on a fullface and expect that to solve all your safety concerns. Just like helmets can stop concussions they can reduce the chances but there are some arguments that helmets right now will help protecting your head from being smashed by a rock they do very little to stop a concision from happening

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 8:52 Quote
That’s the tricky thing that helmet designers have to balance. The chin bar has to be stiff enough to protect your face, but also flexible enough to help absorb an impact. This is something designers spend a lot of time tweaking for intended usage (even through the standards are of little or no use).

Is a chin bar right for every crash? That depends on the crash. Since I can’t hit the pause button mid eject and swap protective gear, I’m always going to take that chin bar. It’s an extra crumble zone.

Source: I worked for a helmet company in a previous life.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 9:10 Quote
I Caught some highlights from Red Bull straight rythm and good ole Ronnie Mac could have used a full face.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 9:39 Quote
Circe wrote:
That’s the tricky thing that helmet designers have to balance. The chin bar has to be stiff enough to protect your face, but also flexible enough to help absorb an impact. This is something designers spend a lot of time tweaking for intended usage (even through the standards are of little or no use).

Is a chin bar right for every crash? That depends on the crash. Since I can’t hit the pause button mid eject and swap protective gear, I’m always going to take that chin bar. It’s an extra crumble zone.

Source: I worked for a helmet company in a previous life.
Isn't the primary danger of a chin bar the rotation putting potentially a lot of torque on your neck? I've wondered if decreasing the size of the chin bar would be a bit safer so long as there's adequate distance from your face.

But like you said, every crash is different and there's not gonna be an easy single solution for every crash.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 10:11 Quote
Arnoodles wrote:
Circe wrote:
That’s the tricky thing that helmet designers have to balance. The chin bar has to be stiff enough to protect your face, but also flexible enough to help absorb an impact. This is something designers spend a lot of time tweaking for intended usage (even through the standards are of little or no use).

Is a chin bar right for every crash? That depends on the crash. Since I can’t hit the pause button mid eject and swap protective gear, I’m always going to take that chin bar. It’s an extra crumble zone.

Source: I worked for a helmet company in a previous life.
Isn't the primary danger of a chin bar the rotation putting potentially a lot of torque on your neck? I've wondered if decreasing the size of the chin bar would be a bit safer so long as there's adequate distance from your face.

But like you said, every crash is different and there's not gonna be an easy single solution for every crash.

you could also wear a neck brace, but all in all I find fullface even without one way safer

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 11:54 Quote
I honestly wish that there was some sort of neck brace that works with a converable full face. If I am taking the time to carry a chin bar on a climb, I wouldn't mind carrying my neck brace.

I honestly feel exposed when I wear the super DH and don't have my leatt on since I have spent so many years were the full face and neck brace always were one package.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 14:03 Quote
sosburn wrote:
Nobble wrote:
d-man wrote:

Like me
Like I said, there are better solutions.

Mips isn't a negative thing for a helmet to have, there's just no reason to spend extra money on a helmet to get it.

why?
an extra $30 for additional brain and neck protection that you will inevitably use is 100% a reason.
$30 extra for something with no proven benefit outside of lab testing in a situation which is nothing like the real world.

Mips is tested on a Headform covered in rubber skin. This means that the helmet liner grips it. Thus giving a false representation of the effectiveness of mips. In use, the helmet isn't that firmly connected to your head.

Like I said, it shouldn't turn you off of buying a helmet, but there is zero reason to spend an extra penny for it.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 14:48 Quote
What about that shit Trek came up with, WaveCel or something like that... anyone tried it? Supposedly had much more comprehensive testing behind it than MIPS

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 15:38 Quote
Could you point me to an article or website that shows that MIPS testing was done on a rubber head with no hair? I am genuinely interested in seeing this info with my own eyes.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 15:43 Quote
Nobble wrote:
sosburn wrote:
Nobble wrote:
Like I said, there are better solutions.

Mips isn't a negative thing for a helmet to have, there's just no reason to spend extra money on a helmet to get it.

why?
an extra $30 for additional brain and neck protection that you will inevitably use is 100% a reason.
$30 extra for something with no proven benefit outside of lab testing in a situation which is nothing like the real world.

Mips is tested on a Headform covered in rubber skin. This means that the helmet liner grips it. Thus giving a false representation of the effectiveness of mips. In use, the helmet isn't that firmly connected to your head.

Like I said, it shouldn't turn you off of buying a helmet, but there is zero reason to spend an extra penny for it.

The MIPS Spherical which bell uses definitely connects well to he head in use. I don't believe the plastic membrane style of MIPS does though.

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 16:19 Quote
B650wagon wrote:
Could you point me to an article or website that shows that MIPS testing was done on a rubber head with no hair? I am genuinely interested in seeing this info with my own eyes.

There’s a Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute website that looks like it’s straight out of 1995. It has most of this information. It’s run by a board of industry experts. Really interesting info

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 16:54 Quote
Circe wrote:
B650wagon wrote:
Could you point me to an article or website that shows that MIPS testing was done on a rubber head with no hair? I am genuinely interested in seeing this info with my own eyes.

There’s a Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute website that looks like it’s straight out of 1995. It has most of this information. It’s run by a board of industry experts. Really interesting info
Straight from mips themselves

https://mipsprotection.com/news-room/faq_category/testing/

"We use a Hybrid III dummy head made out of aluminium covered with a rubber skin. This type of dummy head is the same as used in testing within the automotive industry."

Posted: Oct 12, 2019 at 17:02 Quote
I agree mips is a load of bullshit but some guy on here said he pushed his head hard into the floor wearing a normal helmet to see if it would slide on his hair when he rotated and moved around and he said it felt kinda stuck to his head, that when pressure was applied the helmet couldn’t slip around.


 
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