Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 12:54 Quote
dingus wrote:
Reach is only relevant when paired with the stack measurement. The head angle is also going to have an effect on where your handlebar ends up along with the stem positioning and length too. I don't know if there's a rough guide for comparing reach/stack values between different bikes but when I was last in the market for a frame I used a CAD program to plot out the reach, stack, head angle and stem height and length to figure out how frames compared. My previous bike was 460mm reach and ended up a few mm longer than my current 470mm reach frame due to the stack being 20mm ish taller.

True. I was adding my "NOTE" section as you posted this. Nice to see some folks are aware of it!


tom666 wrote:
Also, in MTB you spend a lot of time descending out of the saddle. As soon as you're out of the saddle reach is the important metric

Exactly. ETT simply doesn't exist when standing.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 13:51 Quote
but where do we spend more time?

Personally, I want a bike that's comfortable when seated.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 13:52 Quote
I have the unfortunate build of long legs and short arms, so ETT is very relevant to me, where most large size bikes have 24"+ top tube lengths, necessitating the use of 40mm stems most of the time, unless I want to be super stretched out when climbing.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 14:03 Quote
seraph wrote:
I have the unfortunate build of long legs and short arms, so ETT is very relevant to me, where most large size bikes have 24"+ top tube lengths, necessitating the use of 40mm stems most of the time, unless I want to be super stretched out when climbing.

With long droppers is that such a big deal anymore? Especially now that everyone is kind of creating their own steep STA by shifting saddles forward. You could take a long ETT short reach bike with a really short seat tube, steep STA, and get away with a 180mm dropper, 35mm stem, and run the saddle shifted a bit forward and it might be pretty comfortable.

Unlike a overly short ETT - long REACH bike that only feels long in wheelbase, but most of the time you're seated upright.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 14:03 Quote
PHeller wrote:
but where do we spend more time?

On here arguing about bikes.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 14:07 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Personally, I want a bike that's comfortable when seated.

[ ... ]

With long droppers is that such a big deal anymore? Especially now that everyone is kind of creating their own steep STA by shifting saddles forward. You could take a long ETT short reach bike with a really short seat tube, steep STA, and get away with a 180mm dropper, 35mm stem, and run the saddle shifted a bit forward and it might be pretty comfortable.

Unlike a overly short ETT - long REACH bike that only feels long in wheelbase, but most of the time you're seated upright.

I'm afraid these statements are incorrect. Can I trouble you to go back a page and read my post?

For a given hip angle - or effective seat-tube angle, if you prefer - reach does determine length (accounting for stack, of course). You CANNOT have a "long ETT short reach bike" that becomes longer than a bike with long reach and short ETT if you move their saddles to create the same effective seat-tube angle.


dingus wrote:
PHeller wrote:
but where do we spend more time?

On here arguing about bikes.

Salute

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 15:03 Quote
dingus wrote:
PHeller wrote:
but where do we spend more time?

On here arguing about bikes.

Spot on.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 15:08 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
For a given hip angle - or effective seat-tube angle, if you prefer - reach does determine length (accounting for stack, of course). You CANNOT have a "long ETT short reach bike" that becomes longer than a bike with long reach and short ETT if you move their saddles to create the same effective seat-tube angle.

I probably agree with you but just explain things in a spudly manner.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 15:36 Quote
PHeller wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
For a given hip angle - or effective seat-tube angle, if you prefer - reach does determine length (accounting for stack, of course). You CANNOT have a "long ETT short reach bike" that becomes longer than a bike with long reach and short ETT if you move their saddles to create the same effective seat-tube angle.

I probably agree with you but just explain things in a spudly manner.

To compare bikes of different geometry:

• Start with the bottom bracket. That's the reference point. Stem length will be constant.
• Put your hips in the best place, and make it the same place for every bike. Slide the saddle around as necessary to achieve this.
• Now that your feet and hips are in a constant relative position, the saddle-to-bar distance is what you will feel. Doesn't matter what the ETT or reach is, this is what you actually feel.
• The bike with the longer reach (factoring in differences in stack) will feel longer. Always.

The only way a long ETT and short reach can feel longer is if you don't move your saddle forward. That's equivalent to slamming the saddle way back on a bike with long reach. Basically, you're allowing a variable seat-tube angle to confuse you on the length of the bikes.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 16:16 Quote
Circe wrote:
dingus wrote:
PHeller wrote:
but where do we spend more time?

On here arguing about bikes.

Spot on.

Yas.

Posted: Nov 11, 2019 at 21:46 Quote
PHeller wrote:
seraph wrote:
I have the unfortunate build of long legs and short arms, so ETT is very relevant to me, where most large size bikes have 24"+ top tube lengths, necessitating the use of 40mm stems most of the time, unless I want to be super stretched out when climbing.

With long droppers is that such a big deal anymore? Especially now that everyone is kind of creating their own steep STA by shifting saddles forward. You could take a long ETT short reach bike with a really short seat tube, steep STA, and get away with a 180mm dropper, 35mm stem, and run the saddle shifted a bit forward and it might be pretty comfortable.

Unlike a overly short ETT - long REACH bike that only feels long in wheelbase, but most of the time you're seated upright.

The longer the dropper, the longer the seat tube, and that usually comes with a long top tube as well. I like to get my saddle as low as possible when it's dropped, so I prefer to ride bikes that allow me 160+ mm of drop. The 2nd generation 5010 was close to allowing me to get perfect fit, but now I prefer 29" wheels so that's out.

Posted: Nov 12, 2019 at 10:13 Quote
Anyone running 9º bars?

Oddly enough, since going to the shorter ETT Trail Pistol, I've been having wrist pain.

At first I thought it was due to impacts and what not, so I tried Revolution Grips. Now I think it's more of the lack of bend in the bars which are 780mm wide.

Maybe I need to go back to 800mm bars? Or just try something with more sweep?

Posted: Nov 12, 2019 at 10:34 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Anyone running 9º bars?
Yep - I don't think I'd go back to less sweep. I'd possibly try more out of curiosity, but with circa 5 years on 9º sweep on multiple bikes I have to say that I find it very comfortable. If you have exactly the same body geometry as me then you should try some lol

Posted: Nov 12, 2019 at 10:40 Quote
I'm running 12° bars and I love them.

Posted: Nov 12, 2019 at 11:25 Quote
PHeller wrote:
[ ... ] since going to the shorter ETT Trail Pistol, I've been having wrist pain.

You seemed content with your previous bike, so just slide the saddle all the way back on the new one and your geometry will be almost the same as before.


 
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