Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Dec 6, 2019 at 15:16 Quote
seraph wrote:
Who makes mid-travel bikes with the shortest reach these days? I need a large frame but I always end up running a 35mm length stem because my arms are fairly short.

Why do you need a Large frame? There's an XL frame with a 430 mm seat-tube and a Small with 459 mm, so nominal sizing has lost all meaning.

If you can provide some other dimensions, I can filter my database and provide some suggestions for you.

Posted: Dec 6, 2019 at 16:02 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
Who makes mid-travel bikes with the shortest reach these days? I need a large frame but I always end up running a 35mm length stem because my arms are fairly short.

Why do you need a Large frame? There's an XL frame with a 430 mm seat-tube and a Small with 459 mm, so nominal sizing has lost all meaning.

If you can provide some other dimensions, I can filter my database and provide some suggestions for you.

I generally need large frames because I have a 33" inseam.

Check the saddle height that was comfortable for me on a large Hightower:
Tried out the new Box Components One shifter and derailleur. So far not entirely sold on the way the shifter works. Due to the incompatibility of the clamp with the Matchmaker system the shifter is at an odd angle and I have to actually reposition my hand in order to reach back and upshift. The motion of the upshift itself isn t difficult but pulling your thumb back to get to the right angle to push the lever over is kind of awkward. Since the derailleur is Shimano compatible I may just replace it with a new SLX trigger instead.

I would happily ride a medium but at 5'11" with long legs the seat tube usually isn't long enough.

Posted: Dec 6, 2019 at 20:54 Quote
seraph wrote:
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
Who makes mid-travel bikes with the shortest reach these days? I need a large frame but I always end up running a 35mm length stem because my arms are fairly short.

Why do you need a Large frame? There's an XL frame with a 430 mm seat-tube and a Small with 459 mm, so nominal sizing has lost all meaning.

If you can provide some other dimensions, I can filter my database and provide some suggestions for you.

I generally need large frames because I have a 33" inseam.

Check the saddle height that was comfortable for me on a large Hightower:
Tried out the new Box Components One shifter and derailleur. So far not entirely sold on the way the shifter works. Due to the incompatibility of the clamp with the Matchmaker system the shifter is at an odd angle and I have to actually reposition my hand in order to reach back and upshift. The motion of the upshift itself isn t difficult but pulling your thumb back to get to the right angle to push the lever over is kind of awkward. Since the derailleur is Shimano compatible I may just replace it with a new SLX trigger instead.

I would happily ride a medium but at 5'11" with long legs the seat tube usually isn't long enough.
what's your arm span?

Edit: there's nothing wrong running a longer then popular or shorter than popular stem to make a bike for. Jamie Calon who is one of the two people who first designed vpp is a monster of a man and rides a XXL santa Cruz 29r with a 120mm stem and a fairly high envy riser bar that's rolled forward quite a bit. If a bike for will in almost every regard but required you to run a slightly shorter stem there's no fault...

Posted: Dec 6, 2019 at 21:05 Quote
I went from a large frame to an extra large to get more wheelbase and went from a 50mm stem to a 32mm stem to adjust for the extra 20mm reach... been nothing but pleased with that choice.

Posted: Dec 6, 2019 at 21:22 Quote
seraph wrote:
I always end up running a 35mm length stem because my arms are fairly short.
badbadleroybrown wrote:
I [ ... ] went from a 50mm stem to a 32mm stem to adjust for the extra 20mm reach... been nothing but pleased with that choice.

Exactly. I see no problem here, but if you want a longer stem, we all have our own preferences.


seraph wrote:
I would happily ride a medium but at 5'11" with long legs the seat tube usually isn't long enough.

As I said, let me know what filters to put on my database and I'll see what I can do. Other ideas:

• Run a longer dropper, which I also see as a good thing.
• Move you seat forward and/or find a bike with a steeper seat-tube angle to shorten the butt-to-bar distance, which I also see as a good thing.

It sounds to me like you'd find a great fit on a Large with more forward hip position.

Posted: Dec 6, 2019 at 22:49 Quote
R-M-R wrote:
seraph wrote:
I always end up running a 35mm length stem because my arms are fairly short.
badbadleroybrown wrote:
I [ ... ] went from a 50mm stem to a 32mm stem to adjust for the extra 20mm reach... been nothing but pleased with that choice.

Exactly. I see no problem here, but if you want a longer stem, we all have our own preferences.


seraph wrote:
I would happily ride a medium but at 5'11" with long legs the seat tube usually isn't long enough.

As I said, let me know what filters to put on my database and I'll see what I can do. Other ideas:

• Run a longer dropper, which I also see as a good thing.
• Move you seat forward and/or find a bike with a steeper seat-tube angle to shorten the butt-to-bar distance, which I also see as a good thing.

It sounds to me like you'd find a great fit on a Large with more forward hip position.

I always try to run the longest dropper I can. I had a 175mm LEV Ci in my 5010. And I like running a short stem but sometimes even something as stubby as 35mm seems too long in terms of reach.

What kind of measurements do you want from me in order to scour your database? The only things I know off the top of my head are height and inseam. But I've got a garment measuring tape around here somewhere if you're looking for "wingspan" etc.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 0:01 Quote
seraph wrote:
What kind of measurements do you want from me in order to scour your database? The only things I know off the top of my head are height and inseam. But I've got a garment measuring tape around here somewhere if you're looking for "wingspan" etc.

Measurements for the bike you want. Min, max, or range on any and every dimension, parameter, angle, etc.

2,200 bikes × 50 parameters. Tell me what you want and we'll narrow it down.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 1:02 Quote
My 2016 YT Jeffsy was 445mm reach in size L.

I've since been riding 470mm reach.

Next frame is going to have 485mm. I could definitely go even bigger as well.

Probably still going to run a 50mm stem.

I think the yardstick changing so much in ~4 years shows there's no real science to MTB sizing yet. We don't know what we're doing.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 5:43 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
I lockwire enough on planes and helicopters. I don't need to do it on my bikes too.

Curtis > Safair

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 7:54 Quote
tom666 wrote:
My 2016 YT Jeffsy was 445mm reach in size L.

I've since been riding 470mm reach.

Next frame is going to have 485mm. I could definitely go even bigger as well.

Probably still going to run a 50mm stem.

I think the yardstick changing to much in ~4 years shows there's no real science to MTB sizing yet. We don't know what we're doing.

I know RMR will disagree, but this is my personal opinion when I'm sizing a bike for myself - I still think it's the ETT that matters. Reach and Stack will tell you how something rides when the riding gets fun, but ETT is where you spend most of your time.

My buddy and I are roughly the same size, he's got a longer arms and maybe 1" taller than me. He rides an XL Jeffsy. The reach is the same as my Trail Pistol, but the ETT is 11mm longer (625 vs 636). I immediately felt comfortable on his bike. Like, I might have liked the fitment of his bike a little bit better than mine.

While my Trail Pistol will satisfy me for years to come, I think the next time I buy a bike I'll go back to using ETT as a sizing indicator.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 8:05 Quote
tom666 wrote:
My 2016 YT Jeffsy was 445mm reach in size L.

I've since been riding 470mm reach.

Next frame is going to have 485mm. I could definitely go even bigger as well.

Probably still going to run a 50mm stem.

I think the yardstick changing to much in ~4 years shows there's no real science to MTB sizing yet. We don't know what we're doing.
How tall are you? I’m 6’0 with short torso/long limbs (+4 ape) and have experimented a fair bit with longer reach and I don’t think I’ll go longer than 475 again (I like running a 50mm stem). I’ve been on reaches of 443-488 and even with a 31mm stem I start feeling too stretched out on the longer bikes (run out of arm “travel”, especially on steeper stuff if you’re not super aggressive about getting your weight forward).

The longer reach is comfortable and great for a lot of things but I’m finding that long wheelbases really don’t jive with my riding style. They’re great climbing, cornering, and descending, but just terrible for playing around if you’re not going Mach schnell.

It sucks because generally the large size in new bikes would fit me well in ETT, but based on my desired reach/wheelbase I’m actually a medium for a lot of frames. But then the steep seat angles make the ETT tiny in medium.

I’m kind of sad that more traditional geometry is going away. Something like an evil wreckoning (29/161mm travel, 452 reach, 1208 wb, 430 cs). Ive test ridden one a couple times and that thing manages to be fun as f*ck even with big wheels and relatively long travel. More playful than my more modern short travel phantom with 29/105mm travel, 488 reach, 1215 wb, 443 cs. Longer reach and chain stays make bikes much faster and more competent, but not more fun (unless hauling ass is your thing).

The more different frames I try, the more it becomes apparent that everything is a compromise and it seems like fast is being prioritized over fun with a lot of new school rides. That being said, I haven’t tried a long travel modern geo 27.5 which could be great fun.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 8:09 Quote
scotteh wrote:
It sucks because generally the large size in new bikes would fit me well in ETT, but based on my desired reach/wheelbase I’m actually a medium for a lot of frames. But then the steep seat angles make the ETT tiny in medium.

Santa Cruz is still holding on to more traditional geometry with slacker STAs. Trek too.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 8:41 Quote
scotteh wrote:
How tall are you?

I'm 6'1.

I demo'd a 2020 Orange Stage 6 which is 485 reach in size L and I really enjoyed the sizing. I think it had a 35 or 40mm stem rather than a 50, but it felt super good.

I'm going to try out 485 and I can always ride a shorter stem if a 50mm is too long.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 9:49 Quote
sosburn wrote:
Ibis’s are pretty short, the Evils that are super cheap right now are also pretty short too.

Not according to the geo chart. HD5 is proper long.

Posted: Dec 7, 2019 at 10:53 Quote
I think we’re in the industry phase that skiing went through a few years ago where everything was full rocker, 190cm long, and 115mm underfoot before realizing things needed to be dialed back.

Out of curiousity, I just went back and checked. My 2019 xl 105mm travel 29 Banshee phantom has a 1215mm wheelbase which is 47mm longer than my 2009 m 220mm travel 26 Devinci Wilson at 1168mm lol

Despite the fact that the phantom has a 3.5 steeper head angle


 
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