Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 9:18 Quote
seraph wrote:
We sell the Levo, Heckler, and Wild FS. We've only sold one Heckler and it was to a 105 lb lady, so we'll see how that goes. 99% of the Levos we sell come back in the first month or two with highly accelerated chain and cassette wear. Most of our Levo customers are in their late-40s to mid-60s and are what we call in the industry "ham-fisted".
Most of my customers were mid to late 40s usually people who already ride lots and had a bunch of bike skill but where losing their fitness and ability to do the length of ride they want to do. Compared to their previous bikes they are replacing chains 1.5x as quickly (based on mileage).

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 9:50 Quote
ajax-ripper wrote:
seraph wrote:
We sell the Levo, Heckler, and Wild FS. We've only sold one Heckler and it was to a 105 lb lady, so we'll see how that goes. 99% of the Levos we sell come back in the first month or two with highly accelerated chain and cassette wear. Most of our Levo customers are in their late-40s to mid-60s and are what we call in the industry "ham-fisted".
Most of my customers were mid to late 40s usually people who already ride lots and had a bunch of bike skill but where losing their fitness and ability to do the length of ride they want to do. Compared to their previous bikes they are replacing chains 1.5x as quickly (based on mileage).

Yeah I'd say 1.5x wear is fair.. And not really that extreme considering the power output.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:00 Quote
So, the solution is to make beefed up 10 speed drive trains?

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:05 Quote
EX8 already exists, but as far as I'm aware it runs on 12 speed parts, so isn't realistically any more durable or stronger than Sram's X-dome 12 speed cassettes and etc. Had been thinking of doing EX8 for a while now just to see if it is any more durable.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:21 Quote
Emopeds are due for a rethink. Why are they using ultralight parts in the drivetrain? Why are they using external derailleurs? Just put in a gearbox. Let's be honest, it's a motorized mode of transport with the throttle located in the pedals. single speed chain, steel cog and chainring, internal 8 speed gearbox - done. Who cares about the 2-5 lbs this weighs more than a cutting edge 12 speed drivetrain. The drivetrain parts would last longer and be really cheap to replace. The internal gearbox would be more resistant to damage. Who cares about loss of efficiency when the motor is adding 250 watts to the equation?

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:22 Quote
rahrider wrote:
Emopeds are due for a rethink. Why are they using ultralight parts in the drivetrain? Why are they using external derailleurs? Just put in a gearbox. Let's be honest, it's a motorized mode of transport with the throttle located in the pedals. single speed chain, steel cog and chainring, internal 8 speed gearbox - done. Who cares about the 2-5 lbs this weighs more than a cutting edge 12 speed drivetrain. The drivetrain parts would last longer and be really cheap to replace. The internal gearbox would be more resistant to damage. Who cares about loss of efficiency when the motor is adding 250 watts to the equation?

Ooh, so edgy.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:28 Quote
rahrider wrote:
Emopeds are due for a rethink. Why are they using ultralight parts in the drivetrain? Why are they using external derailleurs? Just put in a gearbox. Let's be honest, it's a motorized mode of transport with the throttle located in the pedals. single speed chain, steel cog and chainring, internal 8 speed gearbox - done. Who cares about the 2-5 lbs this weighs more than a cutting edge 12 speed drivetrain. The drivetrain parts would last longer and be really cheap to replace. The internal gearbox would be more resistant to damage. Who cares about loss of efficiency when the motor is adding 250 watts to the equation?

People shift like ass and gearboxes + emotors + poor shifting is a great recipe for a bike that doesn't work.

That said, Shimano seems to be looking into exactly this.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 10:55 Quote
Belt drive e-bikes

Oooooooh

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 11:07 Quote
Because gearboxes and other fancy options add drag.. And I have killed my Levo and ridden it 10 miles on a dead battery.. The sprag clutch setup is so nice because it just pedals like a heavy bike when the battery is dead.

Plus there is something to be said for having off the shelf parts that I can get replacement parts for at any bike shop..

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 11:23 Quote
sherbet wrote:
EX8 already exists, but as far as I'm aware it runs on 12 speed parts, so isn't realistically any more durable or stronger than Sram's X-dome 12 speed cassettes and etc. Had been thinking of doing EX8 for a while now just to see if it is any more durable.

EX8 cassettes are more similar to GX, pinned steel plates.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 11:32 Quote
seraph wrote:
sherbet wrote:
EX8 already exists, but as far as I'm aware it runs on 12 speed parts, so isn't realistically any more durable or stronger than Sram's X-dome 12 speed cassettes and etc. Had been thinking of doing EX8 for a while now just to see if it is any more durable.

EX8 cassettes are more similar to GX, pinned steel plates.

Nope, they're xdome. One piece cnc construction.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 12:40 Quote

Like I said, kinda tempted to try it out. Not really sure what the benefit would be over a modern 12sp. Would just be neat.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 13:03 Quote
I've ridden the e bike drivetrain before and preferred it on Bosche/Shimano motors. It's nice because the gaps are bigger, you don't have to shift as frequently. With human power, you want the gaps to be small and incremental to keep your cadance smooth. With the e-bikes, you can get away with bigger steps between gears.

The Levo is the only bike I didn't feel that bigger gaps between gears would help, as the motor delivery is so smooth. The Brose motors may have their own set of issues, but they crush it on power delivery and smoothness. It feels the most human like, where the Bosche/Shimano setups feel too torque. It sounds like some people prefer that. I certainly enjoy that feeling on my dirt bike.

Posted: Feb 28, 2020 at 13:09 Quote
Circe wrote:
I've ridden the e bike drivetrain before and preferred it on Bosche/Shimano motors. It's nice because the gaps are bigger, you don't have to shift as frequently. With human power, you want the gaps to be small and incremental to keep your cadance smooth. With the e-bikes, you can get away with bigger steps between gears.

The Levo is the only bike I didn't feel that bigger gaps between gears would help, as the motor delivery is so smooth. The Brose motors may have their own set of issues, but they crush it on power delivery and smoothness. It feels the most human like, where the Bosche/Shimano setups feel too torque. It sounds like some people prefer that. I certainly enjoy that feeling on my dirt bike.

If I want to feel the hit of power when you get on the powerband, I'll ride my 250 2 smoke. Otherwise I like the smooth delivery of the brose motor on my Levo.. Granted I only have 10 miles or so on a Steps bike.


 
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