Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Apr 1, 2020 at 19:17 Quote
scjeremy wrote:
Tsoxbhk wrote:
scjeremy wrote:


Na. The e pen in pocket is much more suited to trail side safety meetings.

Then all your friends hear you playing your douche flute in public. Eww

I didn’t realize references to vaping thc elicit homophobic slanders. I should get out of California once in a while. Or not. I just like the idea of not lighting things on fire trailside in the forest.

Geez I was just fukn with ya. I didnt realize douche flute was homophobic. My bad.

Posted: Apr 1, 2020 at 21:12 Quote
I didn’t see any homophobia, but happy to be shown I’m wrong on that. I just saw someone pointing out how ridiculous vaping is, in general.

Posted: Apr 1, 2020 at 21:40 Quote
heinous wrote:
I didn’t see any homophobia, but happy to be shown I’m wrong on that. I just saw someone pointing out how ridiculous vaping is, in general.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 9:25 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
So my Alloy Comp Levo came with the Revelation that has the Charger damper in it..

That Revelation likely has Charger RC. I don't think any of them got the Charger 1/2/2.1

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 9:57 Quote
PHeller wrote:
swan3609 wrote:
So my Alloy Comp Levo came with the Revelation that has the Charger damper in it..

That Revelation likely has Charger RC. I don't think any of them got the Charger 1/2/2.1

Correct.. Have a 2.1 on order for it.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:10 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
So my Alloy Comp Levo came with the Revelation that has the Charger damper in it..

Dads Carbon Levo came with the Rythem 34 with the Grip.. In my parking lot testing, the Revelation feels better than the 34 does.


Also crazy that a $7k MSRP 47lbs Ebike comes with a 34 and the basic damper.

Ordering a charger 2.1 for the Revelation along with some Pike decals and going to toss it on there.

Then 34 goes on mom/sisters Stumpjumper that gets ridden 2x a year.

I really like the GRIP damper. IMO, it outperforms the FIT4 damper. I've had a couple of GRIP 36 forks and they've been great. If I had to nitpick, i'd ask for slightly faster rebound (Lyrik has Fox beat in this regard) and lighter HS compression.

Also, I borrowed a friends heavily upgraded Carbon Levo and I'm not impressed. Great motor/battery package (I've heard they're not terribly reliable) but the HA is too steep, the STA is too slack, the frame is really talll, I miss my longer dropper, it's not progressive enough, the inline shock is a joke, and the whole chassis flexes like crazy (even with carbon wheels and a Lyrik).

If that's the best ebike on the market, I think e-bikes still have a long way to go.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:18 Quote
Circe wrote:
swan3609 wrote:
So my Alloy Comp Levo came with the Revelation that has the Charger damper in it..

Dads Carbon Levo came with the Rythem 34 with the Grip.. In my parking lot testing, the Revelation feels better than the 34 does.


Also crazy that a $7k MSRP 47lbs Ebike comes with a 34 and the basic damper.

Ordering a charger 2.1 for the Revelation along with some Pike decals and going to toss it on there.

Then 34 goes on mom/sisters Stumpjumper that gets ridden 2x a year.

I really like the GRIP damper. IMO, it outperforms the FIT4 damper. I've had a couple of GRIP 36 forks and they've been great. If I had to nitpick, i'd ask for slightly faster rebound (Lyrik has Fox beat in this regard) and lighter HS compression.

Also, I borrowed a friends heavily upgraded Carbon Levo and I'm not impressed. Great motor/battery package (I've heard they're not terribly reliable) but the HA is too steep, the STA is too slack, the frame is really talll, I miss my longer dropper, it's not progressive enough, the inline shock is a joke, and the whole chassis flexes like crazy (even with carbon wheels and a Lyrik).

If that's the best ebike on the market, I think e-bikes still have a long way to go.

I think the euro brands are way way better when it comes to ebikes. The new LaPierre over volt for one off the top of my head. The Specialized is just American cool..... So its light and fancy. But not a good performing bike in comparison.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:20 Quote
Circe wrote:
swan3609 wrote:
So my Alloy Comp Levo came with the Revelation that has the Charger damper in it..

Dads Carbon Levo came with the Rythem 34 with the Grip.. In my parking lot testing, the Revelation feels better than the 34 does.


Also crazy that a $7k MSRP 47lbs Ebike comes with a 34 and the basic damper.

Ordering a charger 2.1 for the Revelation along with some Pike decals and going to toss it on there.

Then 34 goes on mom/sisters Stumpjumper that gets ridden 2x a year.

I really like the GRIP damper. IMO, it outperforms the FIT4 damper. I've had a couple of GRIP 36 forks and they've been great. If I had to nitpick, i'd ask for slightly faster rebound (Lyrik has Fox beat in this regard) and lighter HS compression.

Also, I borrowed a friends heavily upgraded Carbon Levo and I'm not impressed. Great motor/battery package (I've heard they're not terribly reliable) but the HA is too steep, the STA is too slack, the frame is really talll, I miss my longer dropper, it's not progressive enough, the inline shock is a joke, and the whole chassis flexes like crazy (even with carbon wheels and a Lyrik).

If that's the best ebike on the market, I think e-bikes still have a long way to go.

The initial motor/battery had its issues.. We haven't seen any of the 2019+ ones come back yet out of the 70 that we have sold.

The progressive issue is the same thing we have all been saying about the Stumpjumper/enduro for years. And Inline shock is for water bottle clearance. I agree that the monarch on mine is pretty anemic.. I think the X2 is going to be what ends up on mine.

Maybe you charge way harder than I do, because I don't notice any substantial chassis flex on mine with the DVO and my Alloy wheels..

I definitely agree that we have a long ways to go, but the Levo is ages ahead of the pivot Shuttles that I have spent time on..

I will say I rode the 34lb hardtail the other day and was blown away by how "light" it rode after spending 6 months straight on the Levo.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:23 Quote
I do wonder about chassis stiffness with e-bikes vs a normal bike with rider. I'd think that the frame having 25lbs of weight strapped to it would require difference pivot bearing sizes, more material in linkage and stays, etc. Not just that, but you'd also think the geometry would be far more aggressive to take advantage of the higher average speeds.

Are manufacturers doing us a disservice by creating e-bikes that just regular bikes with motors and batteries added, or are there just some bad examples of progression?

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:42 Quote
PHeller wrote:
I do wonder about chassis stiffness with e-bikes vs a normal bike with rider. I'd think that the frame having 25lbs of weight strapped to it would require difference pivot bearing sizes, more material in linkage and stays, etc. Not just that, but you'd also think the geometry would be far more aggressive to take advantage of the higher average speeds.

Are manufacturers doing us a disservice by creating e-bikes that just regular bikes with motors and batteries added, or are there just some bad examples of progression?



It's no different than the regular trail vs enduro bike debate.. I could have bought the slacker and longer Kenevo, but I wasn't replacing my DH bike with an ebike.. I was replacing a Stumpjumper /Enduro.


And HA is 66° on the Levo.. And I believe that probably is about right for how most of them get ridden.. I am not going to say that a Levo EVO wouldn't be cool, but I'll say the same thing that I say about the SJ EVO..

Most people are not riding hard/fast enough on gnarly enough terrain to need a 63°HA on their trail bike..

Plus that added 15lbs down low adds stability that you would gain via the slacker HA.. For 90% of my riding, I wouldn't want a slacker bike. It's already a big bike for trail riding.. I don't need it slacker/longer.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:46 Quote
I would think that the difference in bike weight between e-bikes and bikes, in terms of chassis stiffness questions, would be less impactful than the variance in rider weights with bikes accommodating riders everywhere from 120lbs - 250+lbs

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:49 Quote
badbadleroybrown wrote:
I would think that the difference in bike weight between e-bikes and bikes, in terms of chassis stiffness questions, would be less impactful than the variance in rider weights with bikes accommodating riders everywhere from 120lbs - 250+lbs

Was also going to add this.. My wife is 100lbs lighter than me.. There is way more variance in out riding style and abuse we put on bikes compared to an added 15lbs for a battery and motor.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 10:51 Quote
My point was - does the weight on the bike impact the stiffness of the frame different than the weight of the rider?

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 11:08 Quote
PHeller wrote:
My point was - does the weight on the bike impact the stiffness of the frame different than the weight of the rider?

I'd think that a 2ft long battery in the downtube would make a bike pretty stiff. And the usual "push your foot on the pedal" flex test on my Levo shows it's pretty damn stiff compared to my carbon enduro.. But that's all garage testing down by someone who learned themselves smart in Idaho.

Posted: Apr 2, 2020 at 11:19 Quote
I wonder what Circe is feeling then. The 34?


 
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