Enduro/AM - The Weight Game

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Enduro/AM - The Weight Game
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Posted: Jul 4, 2020 at 17:44 Quote
Didn't set them in the app, directly remote to unit. Sales dudes get to explain that to the happy new owner.

Posted: Jul 4, 2020 at 23:50 Quote
I know there's some weird ones out there, but difficult to remember off the top of my head.

The old Scott gambler had a pretty unusual layout. It wasn't that complex, or out of the ordinary in how it worked, it just looked weird.

Lots of the bikes that run high pivots with idlers are a bit different from the norm. Forbidden etc.

Trek's Superfly utilising frame flex is pretty unusual.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 9:56 Quote
Original VPP was on Outland Bikes IIRC.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 13:35 Quote
fredro wrote:
Original VPP was on Outland Bikes IIRC.

That picture I posted is of an Outland.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 14:16 Quote
PHeller wrote:
Kinda funny how Yeti can stick a bunch of little shock stanchions inside its frame and people still buy it no worries, but anyone else tries a radical suspension design and its usually a flop.

[ ... ]

The new DW6 design Athertons are using reminds me of that early VPP. Two links real close together at the BB.

Tantrum’s design is pretty wild, but he probably sells less bikes than Marin does of one Wolf Ridge.

Yeti might hold the current title for the most bikes sold with a more complex suspension design.

I wouldn't call Yeti's design complex. Couple of sliders, couple of bushings, and the kinematics are just 4-bar. Clever packaging and Sotto and Yeti have done a good job on the kinematics; not saying otherwise, just saying it's not complex. Systems I would describe as more complex:

• 6-bars: Felt Equilink, DW6, Missing Link / Magic Link.
• High pivots with floating idler, especially i-Track due to 4-bar suspension and floating idler. Honourable mention to RedAlp, which uses simple suspension with a multi-link floating idler.
• Floating BB: GT i-Drive / Mongoose Freedrive / variants, Kineticworks.
• Axle path with additional degrees of freedom: Buffalo Composite Designs 2x4, Cannondale Gemini, 2Stage
• Front linkages: this is almost uncharted territory for designers. Have to understand chassis dynamics; can't just copy the results of thousands of iterations by other designers.

Not included in my list are linkage-driven shocks and brakes. On a multi-link design, they accomplish nothing useful (except on Lawwill designs, but there's a question of whether the Lawwill design does anything a Horst can't). On a single-pivot design, they accomplish nothing that couldn't have been accomplished via a 4-bar design, which gives control over the motion ratio, brake squat, and pedaling anti-squat.

Other wild designs include shocks that attempt to optimize all properties - including geometry - for climbing and descending, particularly Bionicon.


sherbet wrote:
Marin Wolf Ridge

[ ... ]

Looks awful. Rides awful. Price is awful. Shrug.

The design can work fine, albeit with more material required to bolster stiffness, but the current implementations aren't quite right. The designer has stated a philosophy that damping is energy dissipation, so by eliminating damping, he has eliminated energy loss.

He then doubles down on the crazy with nonsensical marketing:

bigquotesTHE NEW REAR Suspension Platform Ready to Shake Up the Industry

The R3ACT 2PLAY suspension system from Naild works literally, from the ground up to create a performance “beyond the bounds” of current genre-specific bikes. No longer does travel dictate discipline. The key to the system’s sensitivity and pedaling efficiency starts deep within the core kinematic structure. It allows impact energy to flow in such a manner that the markedly undamped shock moves freely when the rear wheel encounters trail obstacles. While putting energy into the drive loads, the design’s mechanical pedal platform enables the bike to be designed without the need for overly tuned shocks to create pedal stabilization.

The DaWN Of A NEW ERA IN FRONT SUSPENSION

The NAILD R3ACT is a suspension that brings new levels of comfort, control and efficiency to a range of categories where current designs don't perform well. The patented R3ACT System preserves the rider's energy by acting like a rigid fork on smooth terrain. Once a structure is encountered (potholes, bumps) the rider’s weight reacts on the handlebars (Newton's 3rd Law) activating the system. Now fully active, R3ACT can track the terrain maintaining wheel contact with minimal loss in forward momentum. The system combines travel from above and below the frame, geometry and tire contact remain constant throughout resulting in improved handling, braking and control while reducing fatigue.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 14:27 Quote
Hip packs... I need one just for bike park laps.. I have broke 2 phones in otter box cases this year while carrying them in pockets, and I feel obligated to carry more than just my swat tool.

I hate backpacks, and want a minimal hip pack for a tube, phone, can of beer. I want small and as un obtrusive as possible. With my carbon bikes the Swat box was more than enough storage, but I went alloy for the bike park bike and so Swat box isn't available.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 14:48 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
Hip packs... I need one just for bike park laps.. I have broke 2 phones in otter box cases this year while carrying them in pockets, and I feel obligated to carry more than just my swat tool.

I hate backpacks, and want a minimal hip pack for a tube, phone, can of beer. I want small and as un obtrusive as possible. With my carbon bikes the Swat box was more than enough storage, but I went alloy for the bike park bike and so Swat box isn't available.
https://lowealpine.com/uk/lightflite-hydro
Have a look at this, it what I use.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 15:29 Quote
Those are some decent looking hip packs.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 15:46 Quote
I’ve tried a few fanny packs, I try to avoid bags whenever possible and I’ve been hair with the Bontrager Rapid pack.

Surprisingly, Zumiez has quite a few options that look semi decent right now.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 16:04 Quote
Well, I missed a shit storm while I was out camping (and riding).

Thanks for the entertainment boys....

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 16:04 Quote
Hip packs are all about lightness.

I've got two, a big huge thing (Mountainsmith) and a small, single pocket deal. 9/10 I take the smaller one, because if crammed full of stuff its less noticeable than the big one, even when its mostly empty.

My little one is just about the right size for any ride that doesn't require lunch, carrying clothing, or first aid.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 16:10 Quote
Yeah I wouldn't use it for trail riding.. My trail bikes have Swat setups on bike and I wear Swat bibs to haul all my extra shit.. But the local resort laps are 3k laps over 12 miles plus a mile bike path ride back to the gondola.

So a flat or mechanical is more of a pain in the ass than the usual resort riding.. I just want to carry a few small things in as small of a bag as possible.


Really I want to be able to carry my phone for music on the gondola and not be worried about smashing it in a leg pocket in a crash. Done that twice this year already..

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 16:26 Quote
Just get some sort of smart watch that streams music to your ear buds? Leave the cellphone in the car.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 16:39 Quote
swan3609 wrote:
I want to be able to carry my phone for music on the gondola and not be worried about smashing it in a leg pocket in a crash.

If you can live without the phone capabilities and want only the music, compact music players (similar to the iPod Shuffle) can be found for about the price of your Otter Box case, let alone the phone.

Posted: Jul 5, 2020 at 17:29 Quote
I just want to carry a few small things in as small of a bag as possible.


Really I want to be able to carry my phone for music on the gondola[/Quote]

If you don’t care about the cool factor check out running belts. I used one for a while. Extremely low profile, but tube key and phone would be all you can fit in these.


 
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